Tivo and Direcway DW6000 problem

[jahern]

I had Tivo SEries 2 working perfectly with Direcway internet using their old 4000-series USB modems and ICS (Internet Connection Sharing)on a Windwos XP PC. I upgraded (hah!) to a DW6000 modem which is also a router and just has a LAN (ethernet port), which I run into a switch. Tivo talks to my LAN fine - I can publish pictures and music, it show a MAC address on setup, etc. But when I test the connection, it says "Negotiation Failed" It must be in the router, because I'm going through the same Direcway satellite, NOC (Network Operation Center) etc. Direcway is no help. Anyone have a cure? Please? :-)
Jud

[gfkjr]

I have the same problem, as do all people with DW6000. Do a search for Direcway to see everyone else. As for as I know this problem has no solution and doesn't look like anyone cares about fixing it. Since I have no other internet options I have to use Dway for broadband. I have to keep a home phone just so Tivo can make 1 call a day. Now that's stupid to pay $40 a month for a phone for Tivo to get guide data when I could get it for free with DSL/Cable.

[jahern]

To save space, a single thanks to ALL those who have replied and may yet reply to my post about the DW6000 and Tivo. The consensus seems to be: No Go. Unfortunately, most people with DW are a "captive audience;" it's our only semi-high-speed option, so DW doesn't give a #$%&. "We're the phone company - we don't care - we don't have too!"

As I recall, I was billed a one-time $100 for Home Media Option, so I got screwed there, too, since there is nothing to cancel now that it has been made worthless, unless it works with dial-up, and I recall it doesn't.

Again, thanks; misery loves company. ;-)

Jud

[csyria]

Why don't you go back through the computer and leave it all connected like before?

[FatherTed]

Have you tried www.copperhead.cc ? It's a site specifically dedicated to overcoming problems with DirecWay. Back when I had it I found the site to be very useful.

[jahern]

As to why I don't go to the old setup: you send in your old modem pair for $100 credit on the DW6000. And although I suppose it's possible to use ICS with the DW6000, it defeats the main purpose for getting the DW6000 (it's the router, not my PC, which always had to be on for anyone to use the network), and, in any event, I think the "trap" is in the DW6000 itself, so adding ICS to the mix wouldn't help (I don't think).

To the other reply - thanks for the copperhead tip. I went ahead and "donated" $25 just to get satspeed. I had about $60 in Paypal I was trying to zero out, so if it doesn't do much, I'm not too worried. But I'll report back here as to my success with it...

[lynnguist]

Hi all,

Thanks for the good information here, I wish I had seen it before. I spent several hours on the phone today with TIVO then with Direcway. Direcway was no help at all, insisting that is a TIVO or DirecTV problem. They had no one that I could talk to that even understood networking (I was guessing that the problem was with the modem itself) so they could not help. Then I found this thread.

So, as of today Dec. 7th, we still cannot download our TIVO info thru the Internet with the DW6000 modem. A costly problem for us because we have three Series 2's and the long distance calls we have to make to keep them updated will run about $40-$45 per month.

[eibgrad]

Hmm..., to be honest, I know NOTHING about this modem/router, BUT, I'm very familiar w/ networking. If I understand the problem correctly, the Tivo is able to establish itself on the network w/ IP, DNS, etc. (btw, gets config info from where, the router?), can process music and photos, only problem occurs when there's any attempt to access internet.

Just looking at this broadly, that would make me think that there is some basic incompatibility (bug) between Tivo and this specific device. It would also make think that the way around it would be to make sure these two devices NEVER talk directly to one another. IOW, if your current config is (assuming "A" is your Tivo, "B" is your modem/router):

"A" <--> "B"

then why not introduce a middleman, logically:

"A" <--> "C" <--> "B"

IOW, assuming some device "C" can communicate w/ "A" and "B", then presumably you could circumvent the problem, correct?

For example, what would happen if you simply introduced a second router for the Tivo, so that it was the second *router* that had to interface directly w/ the Direcway modem/router, and not the Tivo itself?! Your Tivo would essentially be running on a different subnet, with its own DHCP server, NAT, firewall, etc. Then that router would pump traffic down to the Direcway modem/router. What I'm getting at here is, the second upstream router uses NAT, which *changes* the IP stream to some extent, perhaps enough to prevent whatever is causing the *incompatibility* to never reach the Direcway modem/router.

I'm being very general here, because I'm really not familiar w/ the Direcway setup. But that's the kind of solution I would be attempting. I'd be trying to find a way to make sure the Tivo never talks directly w/ the Direcway modem/router. Unless there's just something in the Tivo network stream that always gets passed down and leads to this problem, you would think an upstream router would mask the presence of the Tivo and circumvent the problem.

Not sure that's much help, but all I can provide given what little I know or understand of the problem.

Good luck...

eibgrad

[Bigg]

Starband has no DL caps (DWay stilll does right?) and has different mdoems and such....
Try using a cheap dial-in isp with a local # and the BB DL through ICS. Then you also have a back-up connection.

[cowgirl]

Originally posted by eibgrad
Hmm..., to be honest, I know NOTHING about this modem/router, BUT, I'm very familiar w/ networking. If I understand the problem correctly, the Tivo is able to establish itself on the network w/ IP, DNS, etc. (btw, gets config info from where, the router?), can process music and photos, only problem occurs when there's any attempt to access internet.

Just looking at this broadly, that would make me think that there is some basic incompatibility (bug) between Tivo and this specific device. It would also make think that the way around it would be to make sure these two devices NEVER talk directly to one another. IOW, if your current config is (assuming "A" is your Tivo, "B" is your modem/router):

"A" <--> "B"

then why not introduce a middleman, logically:

"A" <--> "C" <--> "B"

IOW, assuming some device "C" can communicate w/ "A" and "B", then presumably you could circumvent the problem, correct?

For example, what would happen if you simply introduced a second router for the Tivo, so that it was the second *router* that had to interface directly w/ the Direcway modem/router, and not the Tivo itself?! Your Tivo would essentially be running on a different subnet, with its own DHCP server, NAT, firewall, etc. Then that router would pump traffic down to the Direcway modem/router. What I'm getting at here is, the second upstream router uses NAT, which *changes* the IP stream to some extent, perhaps enough to prevent whatever is causing the *incompatibility* to never reach the Direcway modem/router.

I'm being very general here, because I'm really not familiar w/ the Direcway setup. But that's the kind of solution I would be attempting. I'd be trying to find a way to make sure the Tivo never talks directly w/ the Direcway modem/router. Unless there's just something in the Tivo network stream that always gets passed down and leads to this problem, you would think an upstream router would mask the presence of the Tivo and circumvent the problem.

Not sure that's much help, but all I can provide given what little I know or understand of the problem.

Good luck...

eibgrad


I'm having the same DirecWay 6000 / Tivo issue. I am currently using a netgear wireless router (set for b & g access). Along with a D-Link USB wireless adapter (from the approved Tivo adapter list). I have set the router with a different subnet than the DirecWay 6000. And have configured my wireless laptop and the wireless USB adapters with static IP addresses within the new subnet. The wireless laptop connects to the internet fine as well as my wired desktop. However the wireless USB adapter connected to the Tivo will not work. It's connected to and can be seen be the LAN. I can see it in the router config, and can ping it from the laptop or desktop, it just will not make a connection to the internet. "Negotiation Fails" every time.

I would think my setup: (DirecWay 6000 -> Netgear Router -> Tivo w/ USB Adapter, would be equivalent to what you are describing above, but it still doesn't work.

Has anyone found or heard of a solution for this yet?????? :confused:

[msulewski]

I talked to the Tech Support team from Skycasters, and they said that there is no port blocking in the DW6000. The ports that Tivo say they use are TCP 2190, UDP 2190, and TCP 8080-8089. When I told Skycasters senior support personnel about the fact that the TIVO has no problem on the DW4000 or DW4020, the only thing they said is different between the 4020 and 6000, is that the DW6000 forces an MTU of 1460. They said that Direcway has decided that 1460 is optimum for Sat internet, and so their proxy will expand MTU packets less than 1460 to that size, and compress larger ones. That is why they suggest that any device that works through the internet have it's MTU setting at 1460. Perhaps if there is a way to force the TIVO to use an MTU of 1460, it might just work.

[glenc2004]

Originally posted by msulewski
I talked to the Tech Support team from Skycasters, and they said that there is no port blocking in the DW6000. The ports that Tivo say they use are TCP 2190, UDP 2190, and TCP 8080-8089. When I told Skycasters senior support personnel about the fact that the TIVO has no problem on the DW4000 or DW4020, the only thing they said is different between the 4020 and 6000, is that the DW6000 forces an MTU of 1460. They said that Direcway has decided that 1460 is optimum for Sat internet, and so their proxy will expand MTU packets less than 1460 to that size, and compress larger ones. That is why they suggest that any device that works through the internet have it's MTU setting at 1460. Perhaps if there is a way to force the TIVO to use an MTU of 1460, it might just work.

I know nothing about DW but I ran into this problem using a PC based
firewall. It would not negotiate with the servers. I found out the firewall by default filters packets and since TiVo seems to use a non-standard HTTP packet size, the firewall was dropping the packet. Hence it would not communicate. If you upgraded or switched modems you may want to look into this. Sorry I can't be much help. I just know I spent months trying to figure this out and I found the solution here. Don't remember the message though.

Glen

[glenc2004]

Originally posted by glenc2004
I know nothing about DW but I ran into this problem using a PC based
firewall. It would not negotiate with the servers. I found out the firewall by default filters packets and since TiVo seems to use a non-standard HTTP packet size, the firewall was dropping the packet. Hence it would not communicate. If you upgraded or switched modems you may want to look into this. Sorry I can't be much help. I just know I spent months trying to figure this out and I found the solution here. Don't remember the message though.

Glen

Since at this point and time I am unable to post the URL to the message.

The message I was talking about is located in "TiVo Help Center" and the title of the thread is "Networking via Winroute FW 5".

There Steve Heflin discusses what he found out about the http packets and the protocol inspector. I don't know if DW has any type of FW built-in. But it gives you a starting point.

Glen

[msulewski]

Glen

The product you talk about is for use with the DW 4000 modem, which uses the local PC to route packet traffic. The DW 4020's, and the DW 6000's have built in routing ability, which on the DW6000, is the problem.

[glenc2004]

Originally posted by msulewski
Glen

The product you talk about is for use with the DW 4000 modem, which uses the local PC to route packet traffic. The DW 4020's, and the DW 6000's have built in routing ability, which on the DW6000, is the problem.

Do you use any sort of Firewall in your network? Or does the DW6000 have a firewall built-in? That's what I was referring to. Many firewalls, pc based or hardware will do some sort of packet inspection. Just something I thought you guys should check into. Good luck!

Glen

[ccwf]

Originally posted by msulewski
I talked to the Tech Support team from Skycasters, and they said that there is no port blocking in the DW6000. The ports that Tivo say they use are TCP 2190, UDP 2190, and TCP 8080-8089. When I told Skycasters senior support personnel about the fact that the TIVO has no problem on the DW4000 or DW4020, the only thing they said is different between the 4020 and 6000, is that the DW6000 forces an MTU of 1460. They said that Direcway has decided that 1460 is optimum for Sat internet, and so their proxy will expand MTU packets less than 1460 to that size, and compress larger ones. That is why they suggest that any device that works through the internet have it's MTU setting at 1460. Perhaps if there is a way to force the TIVO to use an MTU of 1460, it might just work. Could one of the DirecWay 6000 owners please try this out? A smaller MTU can be forced by sticking a router between the TiVo DVR and the DirecWay 6000 with the router configured with an MTU of 1460. If someone with a TiVo DVR, router, and DirecWay 6000 can test and confirm that that works, I'm sure there'll be a lot of happy DW6000 owners.

[jahern]

I'm the SOB who started this thread. :-) Thanks for all the noggins working on it. I would try changing the MTU, if I knew how.

My Direcway connects to a Linksys wired switch (EZXS88W), with one line going to the Tivo (and I'm zipping photos and music across to it fine with Tivo Server). Another line goes to a wireless access point (Linksys) WAP54G. I can't seem to get to any configuration screens for either of these to set the MTU, although I'm supposed to be able to browse to it at 192.168.1.1, or 192.168.1..245, depending on what I look at.

If anyone knows how I can set the MTU (presumable on the wired switch?), let me know and I'll try it. The default is 1492, in honor of Chris Columbus, I guess. :-)

Jud

[Bigg]

In my BEFSX41, I click on advanced, and then filters is selected. There, the MTU can be set manually. Mine is auto, eveything work CC cable.

[Laserfan]

Originally posted by ccwf
Could one of the DirecWay 6000 owners please try this out? A smaller MTU can be forced by sticking a router between the TiVo DVR and the DirecWay 6000 with the router configured with an MTU of 1460. If someone with a TiVo DVR, router, and DirecWay 6000 can test and confirm that that works, I'm sure there'll be a lot of happy DW6000 owners. I have this exact setup, with a Linksys BEFW11S4, and see the MTU is settable under 'Filters'. Will give it a try and report back.

See also my post, before I found this thread, here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210634)

The DW6000 uses something called a "Turbo Cache" which requires at least IE to use a "proxy". Could someone look at my post and educate me/us?

[ccwf]

Originally posted by Laserfan
See also my post, before I found this thread, here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=210634)

The DW6000 uses something called a "Turbo Cache" which requires at least IE to use a "proxy". Could someone look at my post and educate me/us? Can you telnet to port 80 at, say, www.tivo.com?

[Bigg]

Does it work with other browsers and applications? how limiting is the DWAY system? Is ti only TiVo that doesn't work?

[jahern]

Tivo's the only problem I've run into... Jud

[Laserfan]

Originally posted by ccwf
Can you telnet to port 80 at, say, www.tivo.com? Well, I tried telnet in WinXP and also TeraTermPro and they just "sit there" as if they're trying to connect. What's this supposed to indicate?

Bigg asked what else it works with. I have thus far tried two PCs running WinXP, two with Win98SE, a combo of FireFox and IE (all set-up w/proxy settings), and these do work. Haven't FTP'ed anything yet. Also I have a Pinnacle ShowCenter (a media player) which can access Web pages and internet radio, and it works without any Proxy settings at all. I just gave it the Gateway ip (in my case the Linky 192.168.1.99) and was Url'ing and radioing w/no problem.

Tried the MTU change on the Linky and still can't get the Tivo to talk.

Uh-oh, just tried to log-on to the Linky and it ain't responding. How can I not access the router and still talk to the 'net.

But I think a clue is that the Linky's outgoing log shows the Tivo trying to get out, but the "port" field is blank. This doesn't seem right.

[Laserfan]

Originally posted by Laserfan
Uh-oh, just tried to log-on to the Linky and it ain't responding. How can I not access the router and still talk to the 'net... I had fiddled with the proxy setting and had to change it back to "do not use proxy server for addresses beginning with..." 192.168.*.*

I dunno what this proxy stuff is about. I'm gonna find my TCP/IP for Dummies and retire to a nice easy chair...

[ccwf]

Originally posted by Laserfan
I dunno what this proxy stuff is about. It means that, despite what the techs above posted, they are blocking port 80 and forcing you to send all traffic for that port (normal WWW traffic) via a proxy instead. This is what I figured. (In other words, I figured the techs didn't know what they were talking about.)

So, to get around this problem, you'll need a much more complicated solution. You would need to setup a transparent HTTP/1.1 proxy (not HTTP/1.0) and force all the TiVo traffic through it, then to the DirecWay 6000's proxy.

Or, if folks can get ahold of a tech at DirecWay who really knows what's going on, DirecWay's proxy should be able to be patched to handle TiVo's HTTP/1.1 web requests (specifically, must be able to handle POST requests without a Content-Length header).

[msulewski]

I have a Linksys BEFSR11 gateway. I changed the MTU to 1460, but no change, so I guess we are back to square 1. What would be a novel idea, is if Tivo and Direcway would stop pointing fingers at each other and get together to find a solution to the problem, After all, THEY are the only ones with the inside knowlege to fix this problem!

[msulewski]

The proxy setting used in Explorer is to route the HTTP protocol through an accelerator (on the DW4020 and DW4000, it uses port 83, on the DW6000 it uses port 87). Since the Tivo does use ports 8080 -8089, you would have to assume it uses an HTTP or HTTPS protocol to communicate. (HTTPS does not route through the acceleratpr port) This is one other area I find the Tivo setup lacking... It does not have the ability to set Proxy ports (What if your network was using a proxy server?)

[Laserfan]

With these replies I at least feel we are getting closer to clarifying the problem (might be important to finding a solution! :p ). Anyway, still looking for my "TCP/IP for Dummies" book here so I'm not being much help.

This morning my AOL app (don't hit me) indicated "Port Magic" wanted to manage my router--maybe this app will at least tell me more about Tivo's requests to get out of my system.

Many thanks for all/any interest shown in this problem--I did, BTW, find a thread over in a Broadband/Direcway forum on this subject. Will post the URL when I get a chance (i.e. I hafta find it again)...

[Laserfan]

Originally posted by msulewski
The proxy setting used in Explorer is to route the HTTP protocol through an accelerator (on the DW4020 and DW4000, it uses port 83, on the DW6000 it uses port 87). Since the Tivo does use ports 8080 -8089, you would have to assume it uses an HTTP or HTTPS protocol to communicate. (HTTPS does not route through the acceleratpr port) This is one other area I find the Tivo setup lacking... It does not have the ability to set Proxy ports (What if your network was using a proxy server?) Two quick thoughts:

- I did actually sense that the https sites I've tried were not as responsive, figured it had something to do with "more communications to assure security" but I do believe you msulewski

- Tivo's "just a linux box" ;) so we oughta be able to make it do anything we want, huh???

[maniclemur]

forgive me if the following sounds really stupid, i know very little about proxies and networking - but i don't have the proxy settings entered in Firefox or IE and can still access external websites. Does this mean all HTTP requests are being forced through the proxy server regardless? Or is it just that the router is handling that end of things?

and would the proxy server issue explain the following error in a tclient.log:

Jan 10 21:04:56 (none) comm[142]: CommUtil: connection to host 204.176.49.2, port 80, err 0x0
Jan 10 21:04:56 (none) comm[142]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 379752^M ^M
Jan 10 21:04:56 (none) comm[142]: error writing to socket, reason = Broken pipe

I can see that if we could set up a second proxy between the TiVo and Direcway's proxy, we could route the TiVo requests through the right port. Would it be possible to use one of the computers on the network as a gateway? (and if so, would it need to be taken off the LAN and put between the DW6000 and the router or not?)

[ccwf]

Originally posted by maniclemur
Broken pipe Is that the error you always get? That sounds like a different problem from what's been reported previously.

[djmay]

Is that the error that you see in the TiVo log files?

if so we can peice it together to get a URL... Although I cannot post the URL here since the board doesn't allow it.

but if I try to get to the follwong address 204.176.49.2 via the http protocol and access the following page /tivo-service/mlog.cgi
on my desktop It seems I can get a response...

[maniclemur]

Originally posted by ccwf
Is that the error you always get? That sounds like a different problem from what's been reported previously.

Yes - or at least that's what I see looking at the log via tivoweb.

[djmay]

Scouring many of the threads on this topic the following seem to be explanations people have had for the problem:

1-Not using the DW6000 Proxy
2-MTU size above 1460
3-TiVo blocking the DirectWay IP
4-DW6000 blocking the port used.
5-Timeout lag time is too long.

I have not been using the proxy setting on my desktop PCs to browse the web. My connection was faster when I put it in, until I ran the SatSpeed util on the copperhead site. Now when I use the proxy my connection actually got slower. So I don't think the proxy is a valid explanation.

I also don't think the #4 is valid since any other application I have tried seemed to get through alright. I use a VPN, various IMs, connected to web servers running on several non standard ports (again I am not using the proxy)

Since the URL that the Tivo seems to be connecting to above seems to work from my Desktop PC, I think we can also rule out #3...

It sounds like people have been able to connect with an older directWay system (DW4000?) so that should rule out the lag time/timeout #5

So it appears of these options we have ruled out 1,3,4, & 5...

Can we rule out #2, or come up with other ideas?

[maniclemur]

but if I try to get to the follwong address 204.176.49.2 via the http protocol and access the following page /tivo-service/mlog.cgi
on my desktop It seems I can get a response...

yes, my Tivo does the same thing, or at least i think so looking at the log excerpt above. And it appears to execute the cgi script, try to get the results and fail...could that be due to the proxy? or is there something else wrong?

[maniclemur]

just wanted to add, I also tried taking the router out of the equation, and connecting the TiVo directly to the DW6000. The errors in the log read exactly the same as when the TiVo was behind the router.

Here's an excerpt from the tclient log, with a bit more info this time.

Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: CommUtil: connection to host 204.176.49.2, port 80, err 0x0
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 380646^M ^M
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: error writing to socket, reason = Broken pipe
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: drainGetPostQ: doXfer failed err=65535 (0xffff)
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: NetAgent: drainPostQ failed, err = 0xffff
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: CallService: NetAgent Process err 65535
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: CallService: NetAgent failed, status 0xffff

EDIT: just remembered, the router is forwarding port 123 to the TiVo, in both UDP and TCP mode. (or was - just switched it off for security) Read somewhere that it might help.

[djmay]

Originally posted by maniclemur
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 380646^M ^M


That content length is pretty big... 380K I wonder if that is the POST data being sent to TiVo or if it is the response coming back from TiVo.

When I just do a simple GET on that cgi script in my browser I get a simple "Done." response.

Maybe that is being sent to Tivo, and with uploads so slow it times out sending it...

[maniclemur]

Just out of interest, i tested my upload speed at testmy.net.

the results were not pretty!

also took a look at what the DW6000 itself had to say at the control center, regarding transmission info:

Number of Successful Transmissions
1220232
Number of Failed Transmissions
1534
Number of Packets Submitted for Transmission
195211

:confused:

[maniclemur]

Originally posted by djmay
That content length is pretty big... 380K I wonder if that is the POST data being sent to TiVo or if it is the response coming back from TiVo.

yes it does, compared to a few sample logs i've just been looking at...should be much smaller. but i have no idea whether it's the request from the TiVo that's the problem, or when the TiVo has to receive the data the cgi script should be sending back. the DW6000 seems to drop a lot of packets when uploading.

and i know from Linux that timeouts can cause read/write errors, which cause broken pipe errors in turn.

[djmay]

I am thinking this is sending data from your TiVo to the TiVo company and so that value is the upload size...

I don't have TiVoWeb installed so it is hard for me to view the logs... (Take out the drive and boot up Linux...)

Can you force a connection over the phone and then force a connection over the Inet and see if the number gets small. My thought is it will send all the queued logs on the phone connection, then it should be a small amount left when you do the network transfer...

[maniclemur]

just a thought, if it's a MTU issue.

ifconfig eth0 mtu 1460

will set it to the same MTU as the DW6000.

the TiVo naturally has it set at 1500.

i want to try it out but it's really the father-in-law's TiVo, so i must wait for permission when he gets home...or i may suffer dire consequences ;)

[maniclemur]

Originally posted by djmay
Can you force a connection over the phone and then force a connection over the Inet and see if the number gets small. My thought is it will send all the queued logs on the phone connection, then it should be a small amount left when you do the network transfer...

No landline :( Really out in the sticks here. You may be on to something though, as the number increases each time. Is there a way to manually clear it once I get the drive out and get into Linux? I can take it over to a friend's place on Saturday and use their phoneline, if that will have the same effect.

Will take out the drive once I have permission (see above ;) )

[djmay]

It won't help to get the connection as I have not been able to make a network connection even immediantly after a phone connection, but I think it would help to determine where that content size is coming from... I don't have TiVoWeb so it is a pain for me to look at that log file... otherwise I would see how mine has changed.

[Laserfan]

I just looked at my tclient log (using tivoweb) and while I get the same "broken pipe" indication as maniclemur, the very FIRST error (the first time I attempted ,#401 after installing the dish), is DIFFERENT (!?) as follows:

Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: CallStatusReporter: Phase: Dial, Status In Progress
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: CallStatusReporter: sending message "CL|30"
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: Backdoor code 4, enable calls via broadband
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: Using Ethernet. Not starting modem/pppd.
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: CallStatusReporter: Phase: Start_Auth, Status In Progress
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: CallStatusReporter: sending message "ST|33"
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: CommUtil: connection to host 204.176.49.2, port 80, err 0x0
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 11269^M ^M
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: Bad HTTP response: HTTP/1.0 400 UNKNOWN
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: XferRqst Failed to write all bytes: Bad HTTP response
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: drainGetPostQ: doXfer failed err=65535 (0xffff)
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: NetAgent: drainPostQ failed, err = 0xffff
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: CallService: NetAgent Process err 65535
Jan 7 20:24:20 (none) comm[108]: CallService: NetAgent failed, status 0xffff
Jan 7 20:24:21 (none) comm[108]: CallService: EndCall start
Jan 7 20:24:23 (none) comm[108]: CallStatusReporter: Turning off-hook LED off
Jan 7 20:24:23 (none) tcphonehome[108]: CallService return status 0xffff
Jan 7 20:24:23 (none) comm[108]: CallStatusReporter: Phase: Start_Auth, Status Failed
Jan 7 20:24:23 (none) comm[108]: CallStatusReporter: sending message "EX|14"
Jan 7 20:24:23 (none) tcphonehome[108]: TClient failed: EX|14
Jan 7 20:24:23 (none) tcphonehome[108]: Sending dialup event, subtype 8, msg EX|14
Jan 7 20:24:23 (none) tcphonehome[108]: setCallStatus called with: Failed state 0
Jan 7 20:24:35 (none) tcphonehome[108]: LastCallAttempt at 1105129459
Jan 7 20:24:35 (none) tcphonehome[108]: setting call status to: Failed


Subsequent attempts don't seem to include the "Bad HTTP response" line, to wit:

Jan 7 20:35:10 (none) comm[108]: CommUtil: connection to host 204.176.49.2, port 80, err 0x0
Jan 7 20:35:10 (none) comm[108]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 11621^M ^M
Jan 7 20:35:10 (none) comm[108]: error writing to socket, reason = Broken pipe

Does this help you guys? Anything else I might do to help? I have a great satellite connection here.

I should add that these messages, from last Friday, were made before I changed my setup to put everything behind a Linksys router. The Linksys is currently in-place, and FYI I tried already at least the "Change Linksys MTU to 1460" idea.

[Laserfan]

Originally posted by maniclemur
just a thought, if it's a MTU issue.

ifconfig eth0 mtu 1460

will set it to the same MTU as the DW6000.

the TiVo naturally has it set at 1500.

i want to try it out but it's really the father-in-law's TiVo, so i must wait for permission when he gets home...or i may suffer dire consequences ;) My Tivo is not connected directly to the DW6000 ie. it is on a separate subnet to a Linksys BEFW11S4, which talks to the DW6000 on 192.168.0.2 via the WAN port. I did once try setting the Linky to MTU of 1460, which I assume changes the Tivo's messages to the DW6000? I dunno what MTU is...

In any case I think therefore your suggestion does not apply to my setup, nor would it be worthwhile to try taking the Linksys (back) out-of-the-loop to try this?

[djmay]

Originally posted by Laserfan
I dunno what MTU is...



Maximum Transmission Unit (MTU) for Ethernet


Let's see how this might affect the transaction:
If the TiVo sends a packet of size 1500 (it's max) then the DW6000 will have to break it into 2 packets... since it's MTU is 1460... Now you will need 2 seperate ACKs to signal the reciept of 2 packets.

[djmay]

More info on MTU
A maximum transmission unit (MTU) is the largest size packet or frame, specified in octets (eight-bit bytes), that can be sent in a packet- or frame-based network such as the Internet. The Internet's Transmission Control Protocol uses the MTU to determine the maximum size of each packet in any transmission. Too large an MTU size may mean retransmissions if the packet encounters a router that can't handle that large a packet. Too small an MTU size means relatively more header overhead and more acknowledgements that have to be sent and handled. Most computer operating systems provide a default MTU value that is suitable for most users.

from http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0%2C%2Csid7_gci213605%2C00.html

Where did the 1460 come from that was stated as the DW6000 MTU?
Just wondering since the SatSpeed Utility from copperhead sets mine to 1500.

[msulewski]

Originally posted by maniclemur
just wanted to add, I also tried taking the router out of the equation, and connecting the TiVo directly to the DW6000. The errors in the log read exactly the same as when the TiVo was behind the router.

Here's an excerpt from the tclient log, with a bit more info this time.

Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: CommUtil: connection to host 204.176.49.2, port 80, err 0x0
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 380646^M ^M
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: error writing to socket, reason = Broken pipe
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: drainGetPostQ: doXfer failed err=65535 (0xffff)
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: NetAgent: drainPostQ failed, err = 0xffff
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: CallService: NetAgent Process err 65535
Jan 10 21:34:50 (none) comm[142]: CallService: NetAgent failed, status 0xffff

EDIT: just remembered, the router is forwarding port 123 to the TiVo, in both UDP and TCP mode. (or was - just switched it off for security) Read somewhere that it might help.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
What is this port 123? When I talked to Tivo they said nothing of port 123. They said the ONLY ports they use are 2190 (UDP & TCP), and 8080-8089. Also in the log above it indicates port 80. Makes me wonder if the Tivo guy knew what he was talking about.....

[ccwf]

Originally posted by msulewski
What is this port 123? NTP (Network Time Protocol), the standard port used for setting times on computers nowadays

[Laserfan]

Originally posted by djmay
...Where did the 1460 come from that was stated as the DW6000 MTU?. Indeed our own msulewski said this over at dsl reports (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,11782426~mode=flat) . To quote:

"the only thing they said is different between the 4020 and 6000, is that the DW6000 forces an MTU of 1460. They said that Direcway has decided that 1460 is optimum for Sat internet, and so their proxy will expand MTU packets less than 1460 to that size, and compress larger ones. That is why they suggest that any device that works through the internet have it's MTU setting at 1460."

msulewski if this is not your quote or you are a different Texan altogether I apologize!

[Laserfan]

Originally posted by maniclemur
just a thought, if it's a MTU issue.

ifconfig eth0 mtu 1460

will set it to the same MTU as the DW6000.

the TiVo naturally has it set at 1500.

i want to try it out but it's really the father-in-law's TiVo, so i must wait for permission when he gets home...or i may suffer dire consequences ;) I tried this (and confirmed that the command "took" by typing ifconfig alone) and it didn't work ("call failed-Service unavailable"). I'm game for another suggestion...

This is from the log:
Jan 13 02:01:53 (none) comm[108]: CommUtil: connection to host 204.176.49.2, port 80, err 0x0
Jan 13 02:01:53 (none) comm[108]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 20365^M ^M
Jan 13 02:01:53 (none) comm[108]: Bad HTTP response: HTTP/1.0 400 UNKNOWN
Jan 13 02:01:53 (none) comm[108]: XferRqst Failed to write all bytes: Bad HTTP response

[ebockelman]

Has anyone tried serial PPP?

[djmay]

Originally posted by Laserfan
"the only thing they said is different between the 4020 and 6000, is that the DW6000 forces an MTU of 1460.

Interesting, I was wondering becuase that seems like a wierd value since it seems Windows sets its value based on the type of connection, and its ethernet default value is 1500. If windows used 1500 and the DW6000 used 1460 then it would have to chop up any full size packets.

So I did some poking around on my DW6000... If you select ifShow() from the first or third dropdown here
http://192.168.0.1/fs/advanced/advanced.html

I see 2 interfaces on mine
irl (unit number 0):
...
Internet address: 10.208.4.148
Maximum Transfer Unit size is 1500
...

lo (unit number 0):
...
Internet address: 127.0.0.1
Maximum Transfer Unit size is 32768
...

I'm not sure if the irl is the satellite side of the DW600 or not, but I cannot find any other setting for 1460 anywhere.

Or maybe they changed it with the recent software release 4.3.0.9 (Dec 7)

[djmay]

I think we are going down the wrong track again with the MTU... I just realized that we can retrieve info from the internet via DW on the Tivo just fine. If you have a Series 2 TiVo (with 7.1 or purchased Home Media Option) Try this Goto Music and Photos and view the Nikkon Photos or Listen to the Best Buy Music... These get loaded from the Internet on demand... (When I unpluged the network cable the music stopped...)

So that has to mean MTU and network settings are good.


My newest theory is the TiVo server is timing out due to the slow upload speeds.

[msulewski]

Well, it seems to me that if it was merely a timeout issue, then it should happen on both the DW4020 and the DW4000 boxes. It just doesn't.

The MTU at 1460 came from Engineers at Skycasters that said they only difference they could think of was the MTU. According to them, if a comes with alarger MTU than 1460 DW compresses it. If it is smaller than 1460, DW adds to it to make it that size. They say that according to DW, 1460 is the optimum MTU size. Again, this is what I was told by Skycasters, so I have no idea about the validity. Direcway has not commented on this or any other thing that could be causing the problem. All I know is SOMETHING is keeping the communication from happening. Perhaps it has to do with traffic over port 80 (Which TIVO has not mentioned when I talked to them), while it is not blocked by the DW6000, it is not being sent through the acceleration proxy either... I think the proxy may be key. I do not know how that could be setup in the Tivo. Again *I* think Tivo needs to make some of these types of avanced features available in thier setup.

It would also be nice if someone from Tivo would read these posts and comment on them rather than just let us free-wheel out here in limbo.

[maniclemur]

the file that my TiVo seems to be choking on is /var/log/svclog.upload

The tclient log file shows that it tries to upload this every time it makes a test call, and that's the point where the broken pipe error appears:


Jan 13 14:18:43 (none) comm[142]: Uploading HTTP Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi HTTP/1.0^M Content-Length: 417413^M ^M
Jan 13 14:18:43 (none) comm[142]: error writing to socket, reason = Broken pipe


this file only gets larger with each failed call.

anyone know if it's safe to rename/move it? (no idea if this will help matters at all, but figure the less the TiVo has to upload the better)

[maniclemur]

Originally posted by msulewski
Perhaps it has to do with traffic over port 80 (Which TIVO has not mentioned when I talked to them), while it is not blocked by the DW6000, it is not being sent through the acceleration proxy either... I think the proxy may be key.

i think you may be right. From poking around at broadbandreports.com, I found this in the DW6000 FAQ:

Q: What browser proxy settings should I use with the DW6000? (#8522)

A: Unlike the computer hosted systems like the DW4000, the DW6000 always uses the DirecWay "Turbo Page" proxy to enhance browsing performance, regardless of your browser proxy settings. However by enabling the proxy in your browser, you will gain the use of the DW6000's DNS caching capability that you would otherwise be missing. This capability can significantly improve the speed of browsing to sites you have visited previously. For this reason, we strongly recommend pointing your browser to the DW6000 proxy.

So the Turbo page feature described in the DW6000 configuration page, and the DNS caching proxy we can set up manually in a web browser are two completely different things. We can't do anything to disable the Turbo page proxy; it's built into the DW6000. Perhaps this is where the problem lies?

[djmay]

What is in the file /var/log/svclog.upload?

I am interested in recreating this call to TiVo from a desktop to see how it responds.

I just tried a simple test, posting about 24K of data to the url it appears the TiVo is contacting... it was quite responsive and I got the same message "Done."

http://204.176.49.2/tivo-service/mlog.cgi

[maniclemur]

djmay: instead of posting excerpts here, i'll upload the file and PM you a link - hope that's OK.

[Bigg]

As far as the upload, as I recall a year ago, TiVo was critisized for uploading data abou customer's veiwing habits. This was after they announced that the superbowl "costume malfunction" was replayed the most times of any piece of TV ever. They gave a way to stop your habits from being uploaded, by calling TiVo I think. If you request privacy from them, they can't upload your habits, and thus the TiVo uploads less. I'm not even sure if it is possible to stop it from sharing stuff like that, but I seem to recall it is. That might be the next logical path to go down, even if you don't care about your data, just the fact that it has to be uploaded.

[Laserfan]

FWIW I do NOT think it's a "file size too big to upload" problem.

I can re-connect to a phone line any time, and yesterday I did so; got everything insofar as a "valid daily call" is concerned, then tried the ethernet again to same result i.e. "Call failed-service unavailable".

I sense it has something to do with the "turbo proxy" also, tho am at a loss to explain why everything else I've thrown at the satellite has worked, other than Tivo.

[Laserfan]

My Greek is a little rusty, so this doesn't make much sense to me, but maybe there are clues to our problem in here? From the dslreports.com website:

If you use the consumer version of a DirecWay product, the IP address of your satellite adapter is not routable on the internet. It can only be used on private networks. Hughes uses a method of translating your IP address to a routable address called Network Address Translation. This is where "NAT" comes from. In a typical NAT configuration, your computer appears to every other computer on the internet to have the IP address of the machine that is performing the NAT services. All your traffic goes through that machine. It keeps a table (a NAT table, strangely enough)of entries of everything you have requested from the Internet so that when the response comes back, it knows who requested it and where the response should be sent.

NAT is used as a way to conserve IP addresses, as Internet routable IP addresses are neither free or readily available in huge quantities. It also provides a good level of initial security, as unless your computer requested it, it is very hard for an external computer to send you anything. It can cause issues for some applications that insist on knowing the exact IP address of the computer they are talking to. This can make being a VPN client difficult, and can make it impossible to connect to your machine as an FTP or PcAnywhere server.

Now the odd thing about the Hughes NAT is that sometimes it seems to work like every other NAT in that your public, routable IP address is shared with every other user going through the same NAT device. Other times, the translated address is unique to you alone. This is the phenomenon we around here call being "un-nated". It really is a misnomer, because your address is always a result of NAT. Even the unique one you get during the "un-nated" phases is still not the address of your adapter and has been translated for use on the Net. The difference is if your NAT'd public IP address is unique to you, then any security benefit of NAT is lost, and those applications that require you to have a unique public, routable IP start magically working.

It has been the experience of DirecWay users that when they are NOT using the proxy AND they have a public IP address ending in a single digit, they are "nated" or are sharing the address with many other users. If that address when not using the proxy ends in some other multi digit octet, they are "un-nated" and have a unique IP. During these times you will see many hits on your firewall as your computer is completely exposed to the Internet, and all the port scanning traffic.

[djmay]

Doesn't seem like NAT is the issue since it worked with the DW4000.
As long as we are just making http requests then the response would be allowed back in through the NAT. If we were instead making a request on one port which triggers a response on a different port then there would be a problem. This is how the ftp protocol worked the command connection to the server is on port 21, when you request a file the data is sent on port 20... (you can usually configure settings on firewalls to handle triggered ports like this).

It would help if we could get one of the TiVo people to tell us how the call actually works. TiVoBill? Anyone? Does it send everything over HTTP? or does it use other ports?

[djmay]

I hit Submit to soon:

I don't think there is any need for a trigger since I had a NATing firewall on my cable internat connection before I moved, and did not have to set anything special up for it to work.

I did have to set things up for file transfer in some of the instant messaging, FTP, and that Dialpad voice over IP application...

[ebockelman]

Doing a thread bump to see if anyone has made any progress on this problem...

[djmay]

Update on the new TiVo software version 7.1. I got it early this morning via phoneline and still am not able to connect via the DW6000...

[rvastronomer]

Here is some evidence that this is a NAT problem. I have a DW4000 that does NOT work. I think this is because I have the Business Edition, and I pay for a static IP address. Most DW4000 users have the consumer service with dynamic IP addresses. So this is somehow related to how DW handles NAT translation.

From an earlier post:

Maybe something to do with NAT?

consumer version of a DirecWay product, the IP address of your satellite adapter is not routable on the internet. ...Hughes uses a method of translating your IP address to a routable address called Network Address Translation.

The difference is if your NAT'd public IP address is unique to you, then any security benefit of NAT is lost, and those applications that require you to have a unique public, routable IP start magically working.

It has been the experience of DirecWay users that when they are NOT using the proxy AND they have a public IP address ending in a single digit, they are "nated" or are sharing the address with many other users. If that address when not using the proxy ends in some other multi digit octet, they are "un-nated" and have a unique IP. During these times you will see many hits on your firewall as your computer is completely exposed to the Internet, and all the port scanning traffic.

[besposito]

I have a DW4020 and have started to experience the exact same problems this week with my Series2 TiVo.

I've got the DW4020 with the business edition via Skycasters. I am using a Linksys 802.11g router and the Dlink wireless USB adapter sold at tivo.com.

The broadband connection had been working fine for several months, but this week it started failing with the "Failed while negotiating" error message. I contacted TiVo support and after an hour of the standard troubleshooting they were unable to help. According to TiVo, they feel the issue is most likely a proxy server problem with Direcway.

As with most others, my network works fine. I can play music and photos over local net. I can even do a remote schedule via tivo.com and that works fine.

I know this thread has focused on the Dw6000...but it now seems that the issue has now expanded to the 4020.

[ebockelman]

Most of the DW4000 owners haven't seen any problem, though. I think the issue is the HTTP proxy that is built into the DW6000. The DW6000 forces all HTTP traffic through its proxy. The Tivo communicates on port 80, but doesn't strictly follow the HTTP specs. I think this is confusing the DW6000 proxy and causing the connection to fail.

[Les69]

I've seen two separate thoughts that seem to be related. The first pertaining to HTTP/1.1 and missing Content-Length header seemed to be lost:

It means that, despite what the techs above posted, they are blocking port 80 and forcing you to send all traffic for that port (normal WWW traffic) via a proxy instead...

So, to get around this problem, you'll need a much more complicated solution. You would need to setup a transparent HTTP/1.1 proxy (not HTTP/1.0) and force all the TiVo traffic through it, then to the DirecWay 6000's proxy.

Or, if folks can get ahold of a tech at DirecWay who really knows what's going on, DirecWay's proxy should be able to be patched to handle TiVo's HTTP/1.1 web requests (specifically, must be able to handle POST requests without a Content-Length header).

The second (and more recent)

...I think the issue is the HTTP proxy that is built into the DW6000. The DW6000 forces all HTTP traffic through its proxy. The Tivo communicates on port 80, but doesn't strictly follow the HTTP specs. I think this is confusing the DW6000 proxy and causing the connection to fail.

Does anyone know anything more about "...doesn't strictly follow the HTTP specs" and HTTP/1.0 vs 1.1

[ccwf]

Originally posted by Les69
Does anyone know anything more about "...doesn't strictly follow the HTTP specs" and HTTP/1.0 vs 1.1 I know a fair amount on the subject. If you search, you'll find occasional correspondence between me and the HTTP/1.1 authors from when HTTP/1.1 was being drafted.

On the missing Content-Length header issue, here's the specific HTTP/1.1 language: For compatibility with HTTP/1.0 applications, HTTP/1.1 requests containing a message-body MUST include a valid Content-Length header field unless the server is known to be HTTP/1.1 compliant. In this case, TiVo DVRs know the TiVo servers they are talking to are HTTP/1.1 compliant and therefore do not need to (and do not) send the Content-Length header field. However, if the message is silently intercepted by a HTTP/1.0 proxy server, the proxy will likely barf on the missing Content-Length header, which used to be required in HTTP/1.0.

It's not clear that this is the problem with DirecWay, but it has turned out to be the problem with a number of ISPs who put their customers behind non-HTTP/1.1 transparent proxies.

[Laserfan]

ccwf can you (or anyone else here) point us in the direction of a "how-to" re: setting up a 1.1 proxy, for testing? This should be possible on one of my spare networked PCs yes (or no)?

My problem is that I barely know how to spell proxy. But I'm loaded with enthusiasm.... :rolleyes:

[leemedic]

Or is there a way to set up the wireless Tivo's to use my computer (that is connected to the DW6000) as the gateway making it look my computer is accessing the internet?

[Mad Dog]

I had read a post on another message board that Direcway was beta testing a fix and that they had four other tivo users using the 4.3.1.4 upgrade and this had fixed the problem.
Does anyone have anymore info on this?

[gfkjr]

I had read a post on another message board that Direcway was beta testing a fix and that they had four other tivo users using the 4.3.1.4 upgrade and this had fixed the problem.
Does anyone have anymore info on this?


Thanks for posting that, that gives me some hope. I'm still using the 4.3.0.9 software. Maybe I'll get an upgrade soon. I figured us Tivo/Direcway users were just out of luck.

[djmay]

I was still waiting for 4.3.1.4 to come to my DW6000, so I tried to see where I could get by talking to DirectWay.

I asked them about a version 4.3.1.4 version of the software, and the person said that there is no version with that number. I told her I heard it was being beta tested, and she said that they do not do any type of beta testing.

So I called back later and talked to someone else. I asked them if I could get on the list to beta test future versions of their firmware. He also said they do not do any beta testing...

I tried an online chat with the DirectWay people... I told her that that my TiVo was not able to connect to the TiVo servers. She told me that they do not support Voice over IP. So I explained to her that it is not a voice over IP that it was a DVR. She insisted they still do not support voice over IP.

Anyone have any more information about this 4.3.1.4 update for the DW6000?

[ebockelman]

I had read a post on another message board that Direcway was beta testing a fix and that they had four other tivo users using the 4.3.1.4 upgrade and this had fixed the problem.
Does anyone have anymore info on this?

What message board did you see this on? Perhaps there are people there who can tell us how they got 4.3.1.4.

[beachchef]

When I first got direcway service a year ago (DW6000, consumer edition) my Tivo (Series 1 Sony) gave the same problem as what everyone is describing. I upgraded to business service about 4 months ago (with a static IP), connected Tivo and it worked with no problems at all. Configuration is as follows: Tivo connected to a Netgear MR814 with DHCP activated (LAN side 192.168.103.xxx). Netgear MR814 WAN side connected to DW6000 and MR814 gets it's WAN IP address from the Direcway (it is one digit different from the IP address of the DW6000 itself). MR814 MTU was set to the default value of 1500.

Worked fine until yesterday, then it just stopped. I was in the process of running the guided setup - I live in the Caribbean and the cable TV I get is essentially a rebroadcast of the DirecTV package sold throughout the region (similar lineup to C-band satellite) so finding a compatible lineup is difficult - I was looking for a better one than what I was using. So I do not know if I messed something up while doing that, but it seems unlikely.

Tried restarting Tivo, changing the MR814 MTU to 1460 etc etc with no luck. Possibly a bad satellite day, email seems okay although I am getting quite a lot of "Document Contains No Data" messages when browsing with Firefox.

A few minutes after posting this, it all started working again so I suppose it was a temporary (1 1/2 day) Direcway problem.

I am happy to share information about my setup, DW6000 setting etc to whomever wants it. Maybe it was just dumb luck that got it working in the first place. I understand basic networking so anyone who wants to know ifo about my configuration needs to tell me what info you need.

[biker4648]

Try this in your web browser and see if there is anything worth looking at or at least playing with. 192.168.0.1/fs/advanced/advanced.html

[gtxpress]

I came across this while doing some on line searches. Since the post is rather old, I am unclear if you ever solved your problem or not. But here goes.
First, I will make some assumptions.
When you had your 4000 system it sounds like you were on satellite G11.
When you updated to the 6000 did they change your satellite assignement?
If yes, then I believe you will find the following to be true.
Direcway employs what is called 'PAT' (port allocation translation) on 'some' of the satellite they use. G11, happens to be one they do not do this on. This also happens to be where a lot of the older 4000 accounts were commissioned.
When you make a request on port 80, 83 or 87 they arbitrate the destination (return path) port to another port. It does not effect you because it will automatically redirect the return IP packet to the correct port and send it down to your system on port 80,83 or 87. It is designed to protect their system.
So, lets make another assumption. It sounds like you are using the consumer account at $59.95 / month? If not then disregard the rest, as it is another problem.
If this is true then you are trapped by that aspect. The Tvio is wanting to make a secure connection (maybe even IPSec) connection and since Direcway maybe using PaT it does not know how to reach you because it keep sending its replies on port 80 and Direcway is listening on a different port for the reply.
The fix is more expensive. IF you upgrade to the professional account with a static IP address, then each request you send is always returned to their system on the designated port and therefor your system will connect and transfer your information.
While it is true that the 6000 system is a router, it is not used in that fashion. It is used as a gateway device and the far side (satellite side) connection is using a different address than what you see. Actually, I believe there are 3 to 4 different addresses used BEFORE you information ever leaves the NOC going to the Internet. There is a firewall built into the 6000 system but it is turned off by default. I believe this is done, so that they can actually manage your system (including updates) from their side.
We have run across this many times with people that get a Dway system to use remotely to another location with vpn's. The consumer version will fail almost all of the time and especially if the VPN employs IPsec as it means of transfer. The cure is a static IP address with Direcway.
Hope this helps
GT

[Laserfan]

... The consumer version will fail almost all of the time and especially if the VPN employs IPsec as it means of transfer. The cure is a static IP address with Direcway. Hope this helpsGlad you weighed-in gtxpress, this all makes sense. Though I don't think I will upgrade just to get Tivo working.

Surely someone here has PE (vs. CE) and can respond? To my knowledge I've never heard of ANYONE (CE or PE or whatever) with a DW6000 getting Tivo to work!

[cq94]

I have direcway - I have been trying to figure out this problem for days - thanks to GTX for clarifying that this problem is not fixable. To sum it up Direcway SUCKS.

[sl96]

May I jump in? I have the DW6000 with the professional with the static IP. My TIVOs (2) are also not updating, but transfer and media is. (one is wired and one is wireless to the router)

gtexpress was there some setting they indicated that I change on my router to allow the static IP idea to work? The problem just has to be in the router or with the timeing out of the upload speeds. Nothing else seems to make sense to me.
I was so frustrated with Direcway support that when I upgraded to DW 6000 I paid for the professional just to skip talking to the first person who answered the phone for an hour before they would transfer me to advanced support. I begged one time to be transfered to advanced, but they would not. I had to go through the hour with the novice I knew more then he or she did. Sigh....this problem is very irritating and on one of my Tivo's the modem died so I am unable to update for program guide now. Now with professional I get right through, but they still seem to know close to nothing. It took them three times to realize that my power unit was bad when I first upgraded to DW6000. They just couldn't make it easy and send me what I needed the first of second time. They did there usual...is the weather bad?....is the sky grey? Our center is down, try it again in an hour. What a bunch of crap...I have had direcway too long to believe them. As soon as there is another high speed choice in my area I am gone! URGGGGG!!!!
Well, I am both happy and sad that I found others are having the same problem....at least I won't spend hours on the phone with support. If anyone has the answers for making it work with the static IP, please share the info. Thanks!

[Laserfan]

sl96 I have followed this problem for quite a while myself, and I was hopeful that gtexpress' post above would flush-out the solution.

Since it is his only post, I wonder if he will come back here again--maybe you can email him directly and request his help? And post-back here if there's progress?

I'm not sure I would upgrade to PE just to get Tivo to work, but since you have it already maybe this person can help you. In checking his profile & website it is clear that he is a satellite professional...

[smcnabb]

I am sorry to say that even a static IP address does not work either...


Has anyone heard of a beta version of dw6000 software that fixes this issue????

[sl96]

I read something about it on another post, but nothing was confirmed. I also went on to mydirecway and the only beta software was for TurboPOP...if you have an email client..it speeds up deliverly of your email over the network.
I am so frustrated as my modem died, now I have no programming and no way to get to it unless I add an external modem or send it in to be fixed or by some miracle someone has an answer in how to make the connection work.
I look at my Routers configurations and wonder if some setting would make a difference. I don't know enough to mess with all the settings.
I refuse to call Direcway customer support, because in the end they frustrate me so bad. I still know more then they do....which isn't enough!
Anyone?????

[Bigg]

This may not be an option for all of you... but there is starband and wildblue. I wonder if either of these would work? I know wildblue has a 22gig package at 1.5 down, so other than the latency is is like DSL. They also claim that they have lower latency, as they are using an adaptation of DOCSIS.

[JLDunn]

Has anyone solved this problem yet, or at least figured out what is happening?

I stumbled across this forum from google searches on Direcway and downloading problems.
I recently upgraded to the DW6000 with the professional package from a 4000 basic system.

Since upgrading I am having problems downloading certain types of files including the programming guide for Windows Media Center 2005 for DirecTV. The daily automatic downloads almost always fail. I can go into the Media Center software and manually download the guide but it usually takes 4 or 5 tries before completing.

Several other types of files consistantly fail including Adobe Reader update files and some Windows update files as well as some plug ins for the Media Center. Many files download just fine though. Some of them I have to try several times. When they fail they usually download all the way before giving the ambiguous "failed" message.

There is usually no good error messages when they fail but I have seen a checksum error from time to time.

Even though my problems don't directly involve the Tivo guide, I am guessing that there is something in the DW6000 system and Direcway's handling of the files that is causing our problems.

[Laserfan]

No, I think you are having different problems JLDunn; you shouldn't have any trouble downloading files--something else must be problematic w/your DW service. The best resource for reporting DW problems is at the dslreports satellite forum which is here (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/sat)

[JLDunn]

You may be right. I was thinking that since I am having problems downloading the DirecTV guide for my Windows Media Center that the problem may be the same.

[sl96]

jldunn - Does your DW 6000 go through a router? I had the same problems, and I am trying to remember how I fixed it.

I still wonder if we all are having a "timing out" issue between the DW 6000 and the Tivo. I think we might be getting failure to negotiate when it time's out and can't continue where it left off or reset itself. Of course I probably do not really know what I am talking about. :-)

I finally gave up and called TIVO and replaced my TIVO since the modem was fried and I couldn't make a daily call. I waited as long as I could and now I am back in service. No network updating...but at least the modem works now and I have a daily call.

[JLDunn]

Nope, no router yet. I'm waiting until I can get this file downloading problem solved before setting up a network. The DW6000 connects directly to the computer.

I'm about ready to wipe the slate clean and go for a complete reformat/reinstall. Dell just sent me 5 CDs which should put me back to the factory shipped state. Then I'll carefully set up the DW6000 and Direcway again on a clean system.

If you remember what your fix was, please let me know. My auto DirecTV guide update failed again today but made it through on the first manual try for a change.

[JLDunn]

I had Tivo SEries 2 working perfectly with Direcway internet using their old 4000-series USB modems and ICS (Internet Connection Sharing)on a Windwos XP PC. I upgraded (hah!) to a DW6000 modem which is also a router and just has a LAN (ethernet port), which I run into a switch. Tivo talks to my LAN fine - I can publish pictures and music, it show a MAC address on setup, etc. But when I test the connection, it says "Negotiation Failed" It must be in the router, because I'm going through the same Direcway satellite, NOC (Network Operation Center) etc. Direcway is no help. Anyone have a cure? Please? :-)
Jud

If you recently upgraded to the DW6000 from the DW4000 and are on SatMex5 (117 degrees) at 1250 mhz, there is a known problem with corrupted downloads. There are many others with the same problem. See the Direcway forum at Broadband Reports, the message header labeled "Downloaded Files Corrupt". Also more can be found in the newsgroups at alt.satellite.direcpc under the message group "Random Bit Errors".

I have been dealing with this problem for the last 3 weeks. The fix is to either get them to move you to another transponder or wait until engineering solves the problem.

[acafasso]

After 2 weeks of struggling with tech support calls I finally
decided to get on here to see if I could find any info... well here i am...

I have Tivo Series into a Linksys Router/WAP BEFW11S4 and the direcway 6000 unit, and I can see the Linksys point from my tivo box but cannot get out..

please tell me someone has found a way to get this connected...!@@#$$##$#$#

Thanks - Aaron

[acafasso]

Bump

I had TIVO on the phone last night and they know of this error but have no immediate fix for it,
anyone have any ideas?


Thanks - Aaron!

[MNewkirk]

From the discussion about MTU incompatibility, I'm wondering if an anonymizer program that repackages / encrypts the TCP/IP would be of benefit? The big question is how can we route Tivo requests through it? I'm not sure it's possible...

Visually, this is my setup:

DW6000 -> WiFi router -> Laptop (receive via wifi) / ICS (by RJ-45) -> router -> Tivo

The anonymizer program running on the laptop is Primedius and requires all requests to go through 127.0.0.1 Port 8999.

The tivo traffic would come to the laptop that is providing the internet signal from DW6000 and is running primedius. The quirk is Primedius is designed to handle local requests from the laptop - not requests from the network tied to it. Anyone know how we could route this traffic through it? Is it possible since we are dealing with two different layers?

[dwsux]

Jan 10 21:04:56 (none) comm[142]: CommUtil: connection to host 204.176.49.2, port 80, err 0x0
Jan 10 21:04:56 (none) comm[142]: Uploading H_T_T_P Header for modLog of /var/log/svclog: POST /tivo-service/mlog.cgi H_T_T_P/1.0^M Content-Length: 379752^M ^M
Jan 10 21:04:56 (none) comm[142]: error writing to socket, reason = Broken pipe

The DW6000 Turbo Page (transparent proxy) requires the Host: header. The above request only has POST and Content-Length:. I encountered the same problem with a software update program. If you could find a way to add the Host: header to the TiVo code, it should work.

I found an exclusion list of IP addresses in my DW6000.
h_t_t_p://192.168.0.1/fs/advanced/advanced.html
Choose tl4eConfigPrint("H_T_T_P TPC") from the third dropdown and click execute.

Bypass rules:
Dest IP: 192.168.55.15, Dest Mask: 255.255.255.0
Dest IP: 80.69.70.75, Dest Mask: 255.255.255.0
Dest IP: 204.0.99.115, Dest Mask: 255.255.255.255
Dest IP: 206.244.186.245, Dest Mask: 255.255.255.0
Dest IP: 66.231.96.17, Dest Mask: 255.255.255.0

This one is a speed test site: 80.69.70.75 [aka:w_w_w.numion.c_o_m]
At least one other was also a speed test site when I found the list before.

The ip addresses above bypass the proxy and do not require a Host: header. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a way to add or change the rules. Maybe you can get someone at DirecWay to add a bypass rule, or better yet, get them fix their $#@&$#@ proxy to allow requests without Host: headers, or disable the "transparent" part of the proxy altogether.

PS. This no URL posting thing is quite annoying, thus all the underscores.

[smcnabb]

I talked in length to a higher level support person and He said that that the DW6000 has a limitation that will never let tivo commuicate via internet...


He said the the pack size on tivo is 6825 and the max mdp on the DW6000 is 6400.

The only advice He had for me is to get a DW4000 unit that does not have this limitation

[beachchef]

After upgrading to the business / professional version of Direcway, my Tivo managed to connect on the first attempt whereas it had not worked with the Consumer version. After several months it suddenly stopped working. It sat for 5 months collecting dust until I decided to try it one more time before packing it away for good. It worked and is now set up again and running fine.

My configuration is as follows.

DW6000 running software version 4.2.3.7
Tivo connected via ethernet cable to a Netgear WGR614 v6 wireless router
Netgear router connected to my Vonage VoIP router.
Vonage Router connected to DW6000

The Netgear uses standard settings (no changes to MTU or anyhting like that)

My DW6000 has a static IP address.

Vonage box is set as a DHCP server, so is the Netgear so there are two layers of NAT between the DW6000 and Tivo.

Tivo is a Sony SVR2000 Series 1 machine with a TurboNet card.

Hope this helps.

[shouffrey]

Wow, you are really lucky. You are about the first person I've seen with success. I've been trying to make mine work for 4 days. I too have DW business plan. I am using a Linksys WRTP54G with Vonage built into it.

I wonder if your success is due in part to your Netgear Router? I also have an old NetGear router. I will try it and see if it works.

If you have the time can you tell me which of mydirecways ask erica network configuration instructions you followed if any.

Congrats on your success

[ebockelman]

I talked in length to a higher level support person and He said that that the DW6000 has a limitation that will never let tivo commuicate via internet...


He said the the pack size on tivo is 6825 and the max mdp on the DW6000 is 6400.

The only advice He had for me is to get a DW4000 unit that does not have this limitation

I don't think that's correct. In the logs, you can see the HTTP connections failing. Too many things point to the HTTP proxy. If we could get DWay to add the Tivo subnet to the exceptions list, I think we would be fine.

[shouffrey]

I discovered something today. A visit to http://www.checkip.org/ returned an IP address I was unfamiliar with. My Direcway is static IP, so I'm pretty familiar with my IP adress.

I discovered the source. It's the address 'web acceleration' is using (aka turbo).

I don't know what this means yet, but maybe the ip address the tivo box is sending to the tivo server never makes it back to the router i'm connected to because of the DW6000.

I still think building a static route might fix this problem, but haven't mastered the technique yet.

Sorry this doesn't provide a solution, but maybe it's another piece of the puzzle.

[beachchef]

Wow, you are really lucky. You are about the first person I've seen with success. I've been trying to make mine work for 4 days. I too have DW business plan. I am using a Linksys WRTP54G with Vonage built into it.

I wonder if your success is due in part to your Netgear Router? I also have an old NetGear router. I will try it and see if it works.

If you have the time can you tell me which of mydirecways ask erica network configuration instructions you followed if any.

Congrats on your success

I didn't follow any particular configuration instructions.

One thing I have noticed (may or may not be significant) is that Web Acceleration appears to be always showing Inactive on my DW6000. TCP Acceleration is Operational. Also, NAT is disabled, DHCP is enabled, Firewall is enabled from NOC and Turbo Page is enabled (I assume these are standard settings as I have not changed any of them).

Another point (again, may or may not be significant) is that my service is provided through LincSat in Canada. It is my understanding that Direcway is not authorized to sell service outside the US but that LincSat resells Direcway service through Canada and the Caribbean. My static IP address shows up as being from Canada even though I am located in Belize. I don't know whether LincSat actually handles traffic any differently than Direcway. When I look at the check IP site (mentioned in the previous postint), I get back my own IP address (again, maybe beacuse my web acceleration is Inactive)

As of Nov 14, it stopped working again. What I see now though is that Web Acceleration is "Operational; Upstream Addr: 66.82.9.52" and when I use the Check IP link mentioned in a previous post, my IP now shows 66.82.9.52 instead of my actual IP address (which was the result I got when my Web Acceleration was inactive). So it looks like the web acceleration has something to do with it. Does anyone know how how to force web acceleration to stay off.

Nov 15 - Web Acceleration is again inactive. Check IP returns my actual static IP and Tivo is working again.

Nov 17. Web Acceleration now shows Operational; Upstream Addr: 069.019.014.028 and Tivo is still working. The interesting thing is that Check IP gives me back my actual static IP, not the Web Acceleration IP.

[matts8008]

I just got a DW7000 and my Tivo is showing the same problems. I'm assuming that there is still no solution?

[djmay]

same here, just got the DW7000 a few hours ago, same issue... Failed during Negotiation

[applejackaz]

same here, just got the DW7000 a few hours ago, same issue... Failed during Negotiation

Same here!

Took my Direcway HD Tivo to test in Phoenix. No problem with serial ppp on my portable using Cox cable. Vonage also worked with no special prefixes. I was even able to use serial ppp over my Verizon cell phone in Phoenix. No luck here because Verizon is using extended network with no internet. I have run out of ideas!

[matts8008]

Is there any way for Tivo to use a cell phone as a modem and dail up? I have a Verizon LX4400 and was thinking of buying a data cable to try this with since DirecWay doesnt look like its going to work any time soon.

[ccwf]

Is there any way for Tivo to use a cell phone as a modem and dail up? I have a Verizon LX4400 and was thinking of buying a data cable to try this with since DirecWay doesnt look like its going to work any time soon. There have been conflicting reports about whether or not TiVo DVRs can use cell phone modems. Worth a shot, but it will be expensive even if it works.

[greg_burns]

There have been conflicting reports about whether or not TiVo DVRs can use cell phone modems. Worth a shot, but it will be expensive even if it works.

Does Tivo work with VOIP? I've never had any luck with my Lingo service, but that maybe another option. Or is the lag on satellite to much for VOIP to begin with?

[applejackaz]

Is there any way for Tivo to use a cell phone as a modem and dail up? I have a Verizon LX4400 and was thinking of buying a data cable to try this with since DirecWay doesnt look like its going to work any time soon.


Whenever we travel, I use my LG6100 for email and minor surfing. If you buy the Mobile Office Kit you can use the National Access for no charge other than time. Speed is about like dial up.

I set up a ppp over serial connection on my notebook and tried it last time I was in Phoenix and it worked for the Tivo daily call.

search for PPP Networking for how to

P.S. Works anyplace showing Verizon Network. Does not work where showing Extended Network. (like here) You don't need the expensive high speed service, just the $5 mobil web option.

[THATGUY387]

Could one of the DirecWay 6000 owners please try this out? A smaller MTU can be forced by sticking a router between the TiVo DVR and the DirecWay 6000 with the router configured with an MTU of 1460. If someone with a TiVo DVR, router, and DirecWay 6000 can test and confirm that that works, I'm sure there'll be a lot of happy DW6000 owners.

Been there, tried that. After talking to a supervisor at TIVO, she told m about the MTU packet size and told me that I needed to set the MTU to 1460 on the router.

I then contacted Linksys and they helped me do this. I use the WRK45G router and it didn't help. It was originally set at 1500 and I tried a couple of other settings less that 1500 and it still will not negotiate with the TIVO servers.

With this being such a prevalent problem it should be disclosed. I did a lot of homework before I spent over $3000 on a new laptop; the $ for the network adapter, TIVO, the years contract, etc. All the way through they told me that I would be able to connect through the internet. Can we say, "Bait and switch?"

It would just be an annoyance but I have to make long distance calls to connect to TIVO. Not to mention that the scheduling over the internet will have a three day delay.

[msulewski]

Unfortunately DirecWay, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that their proprietry HTTP header is the only solution for their satellite service. They refuse to address this issue. Not only is TIVO service affected, but it seems to affect other common programs such as WebAccess for MS Exchange. I am sure there are many other packages affected as well. Because DirecWay has REFUSED to address these issues, I am changing satellite service to VSAT. No Stupid firewall there. You can get it through www.skycasters.com :up:

[greg_burns]

Unfortunately DirecWay, in their infinite wisdom, has decided that their proprietry HTTP header is the only solution for their satellite service. They refuse to address this issue. Not only is TIVO service affected, but it seems to affect other common programs such as WebAccess for MS Exchange. I am sure there are many other packages affected as well. Because DirecWay has REFUSED to address these issues, I am changing satellite service to VSAT. No Stupid firewall there. You can get it through www.skycasters.com :up:

Friend of mine has WildBlue (http://www.wildblue.com/) and really seems to like it. Not sure about its Tivo compatibilty though.

[professor-d]

I'm bumping this thread up out of frustration.

I was so excited to receive my two TiVo-branded wireless USB adapters in the mail today. I hooked them up and quickly had my two Series 2 boxes talking to each other and to my computers.

Then I tried to update program info... and nothing. Called TiVo and they told me what this thread says (wish I'd seen it before): that because I have DirecWay, I'm out of luck.

I'm not one for corporation bashing, normally. But DirecWay really does suck. I can't wait until technology advances and we in the boondocks have better choices.

[beachchef]

I have written to this forum before and just want to reiterate that my DW6000 and series 1 Tivo work sometimes. What I have concluded is that when Web Acceleration is Inactive, it seems to work. When Web Acceleration is Active, it doesn't work (Failed - Service Not Available). What causes web acceleration to stay inactive sometimes, I do not know. When it is not working, I have tried resetting the DW6000 and doing the Tivo call with no computers connected to my network (only Tivo) so that Web Acceleration would not go active, but that didn't help. It just seems that sometimes, Web Acceleration stays off and Tivo works fine.

My setup is;

Direcway commercial/business service with a static IP
DW6000 connected to a Vonage box
Vonage box connected to a Netgear 802.11 access point
Tivo connected to the netgear access point.
I believe that I am on satellite G11 (DW6000 shows 091:W:1070)

[Laserfan]

...I have concluded is that when Web Acceleration is Inactive, it seems to work...beachchef, there is a procedure for disabling Web Acceleration. It would be great if you could try it and confirm that this is the solution. You will find it at the following link. Thanks!

http://www.dslreports.com/faq/13533

[beachchef]

Unfortunately it doesn't appear to work. My Tivo stopped updating on May 5th and hasn't managed to connect since then. I tried disabling Web Acceleration as you mentioned. The status shows Inactive [S]. Not sure what the [S] is as it is not there normally when Web Acceleration is inactive. I guess there must be something else that direcway does at the same time that my system goes to Inactive by itself.

[Laserfan]

Well, it was worth a shot--I appreciate that you tried it!

[BusBoy]

Hello, I have a couple of customers having the same issues with their tivos trying to connect over a DW6000. Bump to keep the thread alive.

[beachchef]

On May 4th I got my last successful update until May 24th when it suddenly started working again (as usual, Web Acceleration was Inactive but again, this was through nothing that I did to the system). By May 25th, it had stopped working again. Given that I have the dates when it works and doesn't work, I plan to ask Direcway what it is they had different on the dates that it worked. Not holding my breath for an answer from them though.

[BirderBob]

I may be being naive, but I sent the following email to the Editor of the TIVO newsletter:

I'm not sure you are the right person to write to, but from your newsletters, you sound like you have a real concern that everyone gets the most out of their TIVO.

I won't bother you with the technical details, but there is a significant group of TIVO owners, and potential TIVO owners, who cannot properly use their devices because they are unable to connect to the TIVO servers. The basic problem is an incompatibility between the TIVO software and having internet access through the Direcway service. I should mention that many who use Direcway service are using it because either they are movbile users (i.e., RVers) or are so remote they cannot even get a phone line.

See the TIVO Community Formum thread at

TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo - Tivo and Direcway DW6000 problem

The part of the problem you may be able to address is getting your technical folks to talk to the Direcway people (Direcway is now also known as HughsNet) and figure out exactly what the problem is. As you can see from the above referenced thread, there is some uncertainty about the issue.

Once the problem is identified, I'm quite confident that someone out there (maybe even the TIVO developers) will be able to fix it or give us a workaround.

Please pass this on to the appropriate people.

Thanks on behalf of all of us.

[jrpark742]

Does anyone know if the dw7000 works with tivo?

[DwightEvans]

I am sorry to say that it DOES NOT work with the DW7000. I have the same situation as everyone else. I also have the Tivo usb adapter. Works fine with Yahoo Photos, weather, etc. etc. but not Tivo updates.

[2hot_momma]

It was suggested that I should post over here and let everyone know that my husbands WAS able to get the Tivo to network with our Hughesnet.

Originally after getting things hooked up we could do the networking computer to computer but when trying to get the downloads it would say that it was unplugged. After a few days of reading everything he could find and playing around he finally got it to work.

After plugging in the ISP and Router numbers he then disabled the DCHP Function and then unplugged the router and let things reset. Once that was done everything worked just fine and we've now had the downloads through the network feature for a week with no problems.

HTH,
Becky

[2hot_momma]

I should probably add that we have the DW7000 that we got to network.

Becky

[BirderBob]

2hot_momma - Could you be alittle more specific? What kind of router? Disble DHCP where? etc. Thanks - this is encourgaing

[gfkjr]

I have been monitoring this thread every since it was started. I am glad to see that a couple of people have got it to work with the DW7000. Has anyone else tried using these instructions. I previously had 2 standalone Tivos and wanted to use them with Hughesnet. I regrettably left Tivo because of this reason. I could no longer afford $40-50 for a phone line plus $20 in Tivo fees just for a DVR. I switched to Directv and got 2 of the R15 Dvr's. While this Dvr is OK, it certainly doesn't measure up to my Tivos. I would gladly go back to paying the Tivo fees if it would only update itself with Hughesnet. I hopefully will be back to Tivo in a year. My Hughes contract is up in a year and my area just got cable internet. I was hoping to hear if a few other people had similar success. Obviously, I don't want to reactivate my Tivos, only to find out I still can't update them.

[greyghostvt]

I have been monitoring this thread every since it was started. I am glad to see that a couple of people have got it to work with the DW7000. Has anyone else tried using these instructions. I previously had 2 standalone Tivos and wanted to use them with Hughesnet. I regrettably left Tivo because of this reason. I could no longer afford $40-50 for a phone line plus $20 in Tivo fees just for a DVR. I switched to Directv and got 2 of the R15 Dvr's. While this Dvr is OK, it certainly doesn't measure up to my Tivos. I would gladly go back to paying the Tivo fees if it would only update itself with Hughesnet. I hopefully will be back to Tivo in a year. My Hughes contract is up in a year and my area just got cable internet. I was hoping to hear if a few other people had similar success. Obviously, I don't want to reactivate my Tivos, only to find out I still can't update them.

Sorry,
I think i was a little enthusiastic and didn't notice that I had connected via phone, not network... sorry everyone. I'll try to remove my post... i as so excited to. there must be a solution...

[cocacola7777]

I was over joyed when I was able to get my TIVO to actually to work with my Network only to have my hopes and wishes dashed when I get the error N17. I have tried everything from just having the Tivo connected to the DW6000 and still it's a no go. Thankfully I still have the option of using the modem to connect but when will Dway get with the program???!

[hcloyes]

has anyone had any luck using the DW7000 getting the TIVO to update with the internet. I need some straightforward and basic help to get this fixed.

[terry_T]

I was just able to get my Tivo to work with my DW6000 for the 1st time in 2 years.
I set the switch in the DW6000 advanced setting for TurboPage configuration to "Use TurboPage Server configured below" and set them to 10.10.10.10 and port 86. (see attached for screen shot)
Tivo had a successful connection and downloaded my listings.
I am now going to test the Datastorm Web Accelerator Keep Alive program for the Direcway 6000 Modem. Will keep you all advised.

[Pcghost]

Please do. I really hate driving 30 miles to update my tivo every couple weeks.

[jwlehman]

Terry...your suggestion to change the Turbo settings worked! I had been fiddling with it for hours and was getting disgusted.

I also disabled the DHCP server on my router since the DW6000 has its own DHCP server.

I have to know...where in the world did you get the IP and port number settings? They sound like they came from a tech support person who finally figured out the problem.

Thanks :D

[DarkNite]

Terry...your suggestion to change the Turbo settings worked! I had been fiddling with it for hours and was getting disgusted.

I also disabled the DHCP server on my router since the DW6000 has its own DHCP server.

I have to know...where in the world did you get the IP and port number settings? They sound like they came from a tech support person who finally figured out the problem.

Thanks :D

I'm just wondering if others have tried this successfully as well. I have HughesNet service. I don't know what level it's called but it's the highest residential plan they have. I also have the HN7000S Modem. I have tried this turbo page hack and it still gives me an error "Failure while negotiating" I have a static IP that is plugged into my router and my router assignes a dynamic IP to the Directv dvr. Its a dual tuner R10.

[FreeBSD_user]

I just got a HughesNet system and can tell you that I haven't been able to get my TiVos to work. I don't understand since the TiVo series 2 I have can get weather, traffic and play pod cast, but not download guide data. I have turn the proxy off and still nothing. I don't know what I am going to do, there are no toll free numbers in my area.

[jahern]

I set the ip on the turbo page to 10.10.10.10, port 86. But how do I configure network settings on the Tivo? I tried letting DHCP find IP - no go. Tried 10.10.10.10 as ip, but I don't have clue what to enter for mask, gateway, DNS, etc. Thanks - Jud, who started this convoluted thread ;-)

[unclemoosh]

I have some information that may mean something to someone more knowledgeable than I. It may be yet another piece to the puzzle.

I have a DW7000S, pro plan, static IP. I can wget a file from my Dtivo's with no probelem. But if I try to use h*ttp_get to download a file, I get:

Bad H*TTP response: H*TTP/1.0 400 Bad Request
Bad H*TTP response: H*TTP/1.0 400 Bad Request

One request, two error messages. I had to insert the "*" in h*ttp because I don't have enough posts and it thinks I'm posting a link.

Does this trigger any ideas???

[dsamson]

Has there been any further progress on this issue. I am a HughesNet customer using a DW7000S modem and my TiVo box cannot connect to it.

[cwbeers]

I was just able to get my Tivo to work with my DW6000 for the 1st time in 2 years.
I set the switch in the DW6000 advanced setting for TurboPage configuration to "Use TurboPage Server configured below" and set them to 10.10.10.10 and port 86. (see attached for screen shot)
Tivo had a successful connection and downloaded my listings.
I am now going to test the Datastorm Web Accelerator Keep Alive program for the Direcway 6000 Modem. Will keep you all advised.

The above worked for me. Although it didn't appear to work at first. The next morning the regular update had gone off without a hitch.

[jahern]

I still can't connect. I've set the ip on the turbo page to 10.10.10.10, port 86.

But what network settings are you using on the Tivo? I tried letting DHCP find IP - no go. Tried 10.10.10.10 as ip, but I don't have clue what to enter for mask, gateway, DNS, etc. Thanks - Jud

[caseylambert]

Hi! My name is Casey. I have a DW6000, Blitzz Router, and 2 TiVo's. I am using a D-Link wireless adapter in the BedRoom and one of TiVo's wireless adapters in the LivingRoom. I have been fooling around with this issue since day 1. I don't know what I have done but I have successfully connected and downloaded the info for a while now. But, I had a power glitch the other day and now I am back to "FAILED WHILE NEGOTIATING," the infamous trio. I have restarted, reset, cleared ratings - program info - guide info, all that good stuff. I know that this is not much help to those seeking an answer but I am working on the solution. I have recently signed up to become a TiVo developer - I am working through the documentation right now. As soon as I develop a solution, clear it with TiVo, and follow the proper protocol, I will make it available to this community. IF ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS PROJECT :::::: > SEND AN EMAIL TO ME!

[jahern]

Casey,
Didn't see an email in your message, but I am definitely interested. I think I'm even the one who started this interminable thread :-), although I've not been any help in solving the problem. I, too, get the "failed while negotiating" with everything I've tried, but I'm not too knowledgeable about network matters. Anyhow, PLEASE keep us posted!
Thanks - Jud

[jahern]

Figured out how to email Casey, BTW. Sorry for the unnecessary post. - Jud

[Rev_ed]

Called tivo and they opened at ticket for me and have not heard anything since.

I just had hughesnet installed on 09/18/2007 and I am getting this response now. Has anyone found a solution yet for this problem at all?

[Laserfan]

I believe that the problem description and solution are accurately described right here in this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3260614&highlight=HOST#post3260614) over TWO YEARS AGO by one-post-wonder dwsux(!).

I PM'ed TivoPony about it just last week to no response--maybe he doesn't read PMs, or has forwarded my message to someone else, I dunno. Perhaps it would be difficult for Tivo to fix (likely involving both Tivo and Tivo's Server); I doubt Hughes would ever do anything about this. But it does answer IMO why Tivo works for some people and not for most--the lucky ones are those with TurboPage disabled in their modems.

[fishermania]

I have not been able to get this to work since I upgraded to the DW7000 almost 2 years ago. I tried many things and all of a sudden it started working yesterday. It has worked twice now. I have a tivo series 2

Here is the DW7000 info.

Satellite
Transmit Path:

Satellite
Outroute:

Primary
Longitude:

99 West
Receive Frequency:

1350 MHz
Receive Symbol Rate:

30 Msps
Receive Polarization:

Vertical
Transmit Polarization:

Horizontal
22KHz Tone:

Off
Router Address:

66.82.25.158
Transmit Radio Info
Transmit Radio Wattage:

1 Watt

Software Configuration
NAT:

Enabled
DHCP:

Enabled on Lan1
Firewall:

Disabled (from NOC)
Turbo Page:

Enabled

Software Date:

Apr 16 2007, 13:28:47
Software Release:

5.4.0.33

I have a Linksys WRT54G Wireless router.

Firmware Version : v4.20.7

I have a Linksys wireless B USB network adapter on the tivo.

My tivo software version is 8,301-2-540

[dukehead]

I periodically attempt to access the tivo service via my DW6000, it has never worked. Just tried and it worked ?????
Is anyone elses working, maybe tivo fixed the problem ?? :) :) :) :)

[Laserfan]

OK two reports now that it's working on its own--guess I will have to try it myself!!!

Anyone else?

[jj_ladybug]

Mine is working now, too. I received a Tivo software upgrade sometime in the last week and on a whim tried to download the schedule again and it worked!. I have a DW7000 but I'm out of town now and don't have the details on my other equipment.

[Laserfan]

I finally got around to testing this and indeed the latest software 9.2 has fixed the "failed to negotiate" problem.

Thanks, Tivo, but I wish you had told somebody this change was in the new software?

[FreeBSD_user]

Both my Series 1 and Series 2 TiVos work now without my work around. So I would say it was something that HughesNet has done, not TiVo. I haven't seen a software update for the Series 1 for a long time.

[Laserfan]

It's likely though that the change in Tivo that would make this work would also require a change in their server software. I guess though unless someone at Tivo "comes clean" about this I can't disprove what you say. What HN modem do you have, and has it gotten a firmware update recently?

Well, at least it's working now and that's certainly a good thing! :up:

[crazycatladyinmo]

Mine is also working....I'm hoping cancel the stupid phone line for the tivo now in a month or two after I make sure is working good. $30 dollars just for a phone line for tivo is crazy.

[FreeBSD_user]

I have a HS7000S modem.

[scottthelen]

I was going to go for broke and cancel the phone.

[Laserfan]

Yes, it's working. Why can't you test it???