Static Pop Sound when Changing Channels/Tuners with Denon 3802

[jjmpeters]

Anyone else having this problem with their HDTiVo? Not all the time, but usually if I haven't changed channels or tuners in a while I got a very load static sounding pop from the Denon 3802 receiver. Its load enough where my wife jumps and the dogs fly off the couch. I've switched optical cables, but the problem persists.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

HELP - HELP - HELP

Please go to my latest post in this thread and comply with instructions there. Thanks.

Latest (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2251969#post2251969)

[joso]

I have the same problem as well....mine usually happens when I switch tuners....any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks!!

[EJ]

I have the 3802 hooked up to the digital inputs and have never encountered this problem.

[elfersan]

I started having this problem over the weekend. Since it was happening very little, and had not noticed it after having used it for two weeks, I thought it might be channel related. I did not think twice about it, until I saw this thread. I will have to take a closer look at my setup.

Then again, yesterday was the first day I ran it with dual tuners. I finally got around to running a second line from the dish.

The other item was that I was watching shows with Dolby digital.

I will take a closer look to see if I can narrow it down to either one of those.

[slocko]

mine pops when I hit the fast forward button twice really fast. the 2nd button press makes it pop.

I noticed because i began recording mtv videos and i usually zoom past commercials and video repeats.

try it.

[slocko]

oh, i don't have a denon, kenwood receiver.

[norneslo]

I'm getting this popping also, with an Onkyo SR600 receiver. I get it when switching to a Dolby Digital channel, doesn't matter if local (atsc) or Sat channel, it pops if it is Dolby. Switching back an forth between PCM sat channels is fine.

Ron

[Lee Bombard]

I get it too.

I'm using a Pioneer Elite VSX49TX receiver. When I have the Tivo set to output Dolby Digital audio I get a loud static clap whenever the channel changes from a Digital broadcast to an PCM analog broadcast and vice-versa. It mutes the receiver and I have to click to another input and then back again to restore audio. I'm forced to set the Tivo to only output analog audio all the time. Not a great solution.

It is a problem with the Tivo as any other digital device hooked up through the same cabling and inputs works great. Only the HD/Tivo is a problem.

Oh...and by the way. DirecTV has never heard of this issue. Call them and see.

[cjett]

same as norneslo here with my Onkyo tx-ds989... loud crack anytime I move off a DD channel.
cjett

[TBliven]

Also have an Onkyo SR-600. Same problem as nornelso.

[jmsaurer]

FYI...I have Onkyo TX-SR600 and have same "popping" issues. I thought it was just me/mine.

Apparently not.

[scooby2]

Same problem as norneslo on my Denon 3801. Hopefully we will see a fix for it somehow.

[SmackDaddy]

I have the issue mostly when changing channels (I guess it is a DD issue since I usually notice it on HDNet and Discovery). I have a 3802.

[Lee Bombard]

Has anyone called DirecTV on this?

You all need to call and let them know this is an issue for you.

[alv]

Same on a Lexicon MC-8

[norneslo]

Call it in to Directv if you are seeing this. I spoke with Rustin today, so he for one has had it reported to him.

Ron

[Lee Bombard]

Call it in to Directv if you are seeing this.

Yup! If you have this problem and don't call into DirecTV you are off their radar and the problem doesn't exist. Simple as that.

[ragedogg69]

Ill take a stab at guessing what it could be:

Undecoded Dolby Digital signal. Purhaps while changing channels, some of the audio doesnt get decoded and a loud static pop is heard. I remember this was happening when NBC/HDNet first started messing with 5.1 and the Olympics. This is the only thing that really sound familiar as far as how you all describe it.

Just a guess.

[jjmpeters]

Problem seems to be worse. It happens even after I stop FF/REW. I called DirecTV and they're sending me a new unit.

If it works, I'll swap out my drives since I've already upgraded and don't want to lose my recordings.

I'll report here if this solves the problem.

[Lee Bombard]

I called DirecTV and they're sending me a new unit.

I've received a replacement for this problem and it made no difference.

Keep us posted.

[kirkus]

Having this problem with my Denon 4802. Anyone know anything new?

Also, once this happens, I have no audio. Switching inputs on receiver and back seems to fix.

[Lee Bombard]

Having this problem with my Denon 4802

Be sure to call DirecTV and report it.

[Digital XTC]

same popping and dropping with my Pioneer 49TX....
I just hope my Tannoy speakers are fine.

had to drop the 5.1 and just go stereo for now.....bummer.

[jones07]

Is this a new problem or been happening from day one ?

[dirtypacman]

That has been happening for me since day one on my SA 810H---- it never happens at any point that makes a difference to me only when FF/RR or other features on Live TV, not like its happening in the middle of recordings.

Figured I would post even though its not a concern for me.

[TAKECOVER]

It is for sure a Tivo compatibility deal, I have hooked up both a Denon and my Pioneer Elite VSX-49txi and I get the same loud static....then nothing. Please everyone with this problem call it in. The guys at Direct think I am crazy and say that I am one of just a VERY VERY FEW that are having this problem. If most of us do not call, they will NEVER know there is a problem here!

P.S. I just called Pioneer at 800-421-1404 and of course the response I got was..."we have never heard of this problem before" SHEESH. Please everyone with an Elite call the above #.


Jimmy

[jeffl]

Have the denon 3802 and expeience this also. I did call to report it.

[Dave E H]

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX49TX receiver and I have the same problem.

What is the best course of action? Everyone complain to DirecTV? It's really frustrating.

[TAKECOVER]

Call Pioneer, Directv is admiting the problem as of today, I talked to two tech guys at length today! Call Pioneer, they have no idea of what is going on, despite all the phone calls that we have made to them. We have to get all of the people at Direct and Pioneer, Denon, Onkyo to work together on this problem. The techs I spoke with today are putting alot of the blame on the reciever manufactures....imagine that! Please Call the Pioneer customer service # in my previous post here.

Jim

[rfieldz]

I've got the same problem with my Denon 4802. Everything else through the Denon works fine.

[Enigmatic]

I get continuous dropouts with the DD bitstream using a Sunfire pre/pro. I am on my 3rd box (the second for the same issue with no improvement). I think that something about this opitcal out on this product is non-standard, as every other component I've ever hooked to the Sunfire (Dish 6000, PS2, Denon 1600 DVD, Sony DVD, etc) all worked fine with DD with no issues. I will be sending the 2nd receiver back, and I'll report my problem. I've heard of some people having success by using an Audio Authority optical switcher between their HDTiVo and their receiver; I've tried that with the cheap ratshack opt to co-ax converter with no luck.

[jlenz]

I seem to have a smilar problem with my denon 3803. I also seem to have a lot of buzzing but that seems to go away when I unplug my subwoofer. this only started within the last week or so. Anyone else get the buzzing sound?

[jjmpeters]

No buzzing sound here.

Still have received my replacement unit to see if this resolves my problem, even if it didn't for others. Guess I'll have to call DTV again.

[Dave E H]

I definitely believe it's a problem with the HDTivo - I too have had 7-8 different devices hooked to this receiver passing DD via optical w/o any problems. My Hughes e86 worked like a champ.

[RonPrx]

Pops here too with Denon 3801. Appears to only occur when in Dolby 5.1.

[dilauser]

Lexicon MC12B with a pop- only when transitioning from a channel broadcasting with PCM to a Channel with DD.
I have hooked up 7 different Dtivos, UTV, RCA DTC100, Hughes HTL-HD to this same pre-pro without a problem.
It would seem that the period of time it takes to lock on to the DD Bitstream is outside of the period of the "mute" that the pre/pro applies while switching from one audio format to the other.

[Free]

I have the same setup as dilauser, MC-12B, and he pegged the problem correctly. Lexicon is aware of this issue, because I have it with a Pioneer based DVD player, JVC D-VHS deck, and now the HD Tivo.

I have been pestering Lexicon for a software fix that allows us to individually adjust the muting, so that this does not occur. dilauser, I would appreciate it if you would give Lex Tech Support a quick call to let them know you are having the same problem, so that they can increase their motivation to come up with a fix.

[jjmpeters]

Well I finally got my replacement unit on Saturday. Hooked it up on Sunday and found the same problem. So it looks like design defect and not not a problem with just the two units I received.

I'll return the new one to DTV since I don't want to swap out the hard drives.

I would be nice if they could make an "adjustment" for the problem....

[Innerloop]

Its absolutely a design flaw, not a bug in a few machines. I have two units and both have the exact same behavior on my Pioneer Elite AMP. Even if I mute the damn amp while switching, it will still cut out until I switch inputs.

I do worry about it hurting the speakers.

I hope its something they can correct with a firmware upgrade. I think this may be related to them adding the ability to hear SFX via the digital audio out, which wasn't present in my Series 1 unit.

For me it happens whenever I switch between live TV and an HD/Dolby Digital recorded stream. Almost 100% of the time.

Very annoying!

[Dave E H]

I agree that this is a BS problem. This is definitely one they need to fix. I've not had another DTV receiver (owned 4 different ones) that have all used the optical output and none have had this problem.

It is definitely worrysome and unbelievable in a $1k product. It can damage some very expensive speakers!!!

[Lee Bombard]

So...has anyone gotten DirecTV to admit to the problem?

[pimpbot515]

In my opinion this is not a Directv/Tivo problem but a design flaw in the way certain receivers/pre-pros handle DD bitstreams.

I noticed this as soon as I upgraded from a Denon DD decoder to an H/K Signature 2.0 pre/pro years ago. Using an older Sony SAT-A1 (don't remember the exact model number) the Denon had no problem when I switched from a Stereo to DD channel. However, when using the H/K, I get a loud pop every time I go from a stereo channel to one with a DD stream (i.e. every HD channel).

I am currently using a Sony SAT-HD200 and it has the same problem- pops every time. I just accepted it as a flaw in the H/K and hope my next preamp can handle it better.

[raguilar]

I had the same problem with a Series one DirecTivo and my Denon 4800 over a year ago. It was a know problem with the Denon receiver. There were threads all over about it here and other places. It turned out to be the mute circuit on the Denon. My 4800 was still under warrenty so I had it fixed. I haven't had a problem since and I have the HDTivo also.

Ron Aguilar

[MoviegoerMan]

I have the same issue on my Onkyo with my Tivo, but it doesn't happen with my 921 or my 721. This is a Tivo 10-250 issue in my opinion.

It seems they are sending only a portion of a compressed data stream to the receiver. If they don't synchronize the packet streams, then the a/v receiver will play out the raw bits of the compressed data until it finds a new packet boundary that it can understand and uncompress successfully.

I don't think you'll see this when decoding PCM because it is a raw stream, but it depends on what part of the MPEG data stream has been decoded from the satellite before it was sent to the a/v receiver.

If they are only taking the first portion of the mpeg stream and don't have a fully decoded audio packet when it's sent to the receiver, then it will play out binary garbage until the audio is buffered and synchronized.

I believe the 921/721 receivers wait until they have buffered enough of the audio and skip past the first portion to make sure they have a valid continuous audio stream before sending it to the a/v receiver.

If you send garbage to the a/v receiver you will hear garbage... i.e. garbage in, garbage out... The pops occur because the binary data is modulated back to a frequency signal... If the binary bytes of information jump all across the board you will see varied high and low frequencies in an extremely short period of time. This will cause the pop sound.

[Lee Bombard]

MoviegoerMan -
In your opinion is this something that can be solved by a DirecTV firmware download?

[MoviegoerMan]

Yes. I think it can be fixed in software, but I can't guarantee it because I have no internal knowledge of the hardware or software for the 10-250. That would be my best guess from what I can tell. I would suspect the audio driver implementation they are using or the way they are decoding the audio stream from the mpeg stream.

It is still possible this is some kind of hardware issue on the optical interface that talks to the a/v receivers, but I would bet it's more in the software. I'm sure they are using something standard to output the optical audio.

[jjmpeters]

After I called to notify D that I would be returing the replacement unit, I asked to talk to tech support. I think they referred to it as advanced tech support, and the guy I talked to referred to it as the TiVo department.

He said that he would escalate this as an issue and that I should hear back in less than a week as to what direction D would be taken with this problem.

I'll let you know when I hear anything. Its not like I plan to live without the HDTiVo, but if they can't fix I'd like some dollars off.

[Max's Father]

Would you believe that I'm having this same very problem with my SA 8000 (HD DVR that the cable company rents me) used in conjunction with a new Denon AVR 1705?

Problem goes away when I tell the SA 8000 to output only PCM, instead of Dolby Digital. Otherwise, the reciever loses the DD lock (and clicks) every time I hit RW, FF, play, switch channels, hit guide, etc. But I can't live with PCM audio alone.

[MoviegoerMan]

I looked into this a little closer to see why my 10-250 has the static pops and my 921 does not. My Onkyo is very specific about showing me what protocol format is being sent to it. I was able to detect the formats being sent to the a/v receiver:

1. DD5.1 = Dolby (3 / 2.1 ) i.e. 5.1 Audio
2. DD2.0 = Dolby Digital II ( 2 / 0) i.e. Left/Right PCM
3. PCM = PCM (Pulse Code Modulation)


The static pop only occurs when switching from DD2.0/PCM to DD5.1 (non-PCM)
The static pop does not occur if you are switching from DD5.1 to DD5.1
The static pop does not occur if you are switching from DD2.0 to DD2.0
The static pop does not occur if you are switching from DD5.1 to DD2.0/PCM


The 921 seems to delay switching the a/v receiver until the video has already started. It looks like the 10-250 tries to switch modes and doesn't wait for the a/v receiver to exit the PCM format before attempting to send it DD5.1.

I think because they switch and start playing the audio too soon, then they are playing garbage to the a/v receiver for that split second. Once the video and audio are both playing they are synchronized. It looks like I hear the pop on the 10-250 before I can see one frame of video. The 921 looks like I see the first video frame, watch the a/v receiver switch modes, and then hear the audio stream without a pop.

Since we've seen this in the advance/skip and anytime the video is set to another position in the stream, then it looks like they are having trouble synchronizing the audio with the video when they have to start playing. I don't hear the pops that often during a 30 second skip. This might be happening because during a commercial it is DD2.0/PCM and during a movie it goes back to DD5.1. I'll be looking to see if that's what seems to happen when I notice it doing that again.

The reason you don't hear the pops when going from DD5.1 to DD2.0/PCM is because it doesn't just play a raw stream. If they send garbage, then it will get ignored by the a/v receiver unless it's in the proper format. The pops occur when leaving the DD2.0/PCM format because it plays whatever binary data is sent to it. If they attempt to send DD5.1 packet headers, then it will play those first set of headers as audio sound.

That's my best guess so far from what I can tell. Try to watch all 5.1 shows or keep it all on PCM to prevent the pops. For me, it's annoying, but it's not a critical defect. I'm sure they will address this in the future if it keeps coming up. And it will...

I'll post more if I find anything new. I'd like to hear what DirecTV/Tivo's response is on this item...

[Lee Bombard]

I'd like to hear what DirecTV/Tivo's response is on this item...

Have you spoken to DirecTV? Seems that everyone that has contacted then on this is told that they are the only ones with the problem.

[MoviegoerMan]

I was waiting to hear back from John (jjmpeters) and see his response from DirecTV. I should probably call and file my own defect with them too. I was hoping they will acknowledge the problem and prevent all of us from having to call.

[Lee Bombard]

I was hoping they will acknowledge the problem and prevent all of us from having to call.

Many of us have called and pretty much everyone is told "This is the first we've heard of this problem!"

Give them a call and let us know what they say.

[scooby2]

I've had the issue on two hdtivos and when i called they told me (shocker) that i was the first to call. They offered to send me replacements but I declined. Maybe we need to start a petition page or something and once we have a couple hundred people we could send them the url.

[jones07]

problem is some people don't believe it's a Dtv/Tivo problem

[pimpbot515]

Ok, the more I think about this, the more it worries me.

My SATHD200 pops when I change channels to a DD station and I can handle that. But with a Tivo I'm gonna be pausing and fast-forwarding all the time. I don't think I could put up with it popping all the time.

How widespread is this problem? Does it happen with SD DirecTivos too?

[jeffl]

Originally posted by jones07
problem is some people don't believe it's a Dtv/Tivo problem

I agree it is definately a dtv/tivo problem. If anyone thinks otherwise they are FOS. I have had over ten components hooked up to my denon 3802 and never had problems like this. Frankly I am sick of DTV not fixing their problems such as dropouts and video problems. They deny it or say that they have never heard of such issues.

[Lee Bombard]

I don't think I could put up with it popping all the time.

We aren't just talking popping sounds here. We're talking static thunder claps that are so loud and sudden that the receiver mutes itself for it's own protection.

An occasional little pop sound here or there is one thing but this is entirely something else.

And as the poster above said, I have also had numerous digital devices hooked-up to this same receiver and even the same input with no problems until the HD/Tivo.

[rick peterson]

I have this problem as well through an RDC - 7.

(plus the aspect issue on my 4:3 RPTV)

[fray]

I'm sure others have said this.. but this isn't just a problem with Denon. My Pioneer 49TXi also has the same issue.. I'm really afraid it's going to blow out my speakers one of these times. (And my speakers arn't exactly "cheap"...)

I'm not sure what to do about it.. I'll probably file a complaint with Pioneer and DirecTV.. but I doubt either will care.. :( (Sad that my original assumption is neither cares...)

[Cheezmo]

FWIW, I can't get it to "pop" on my Parasound AVC-2500. I see the OSD go from Digital PCM, then briefly to "Unknown Digital", then to Dolby Digital 3/2.1.

Switching from DD to PCM, DD to DD, or PCM to PCM I don't see the brief "Unknown Digital" message.

[pimpbot515]

I agree it is definately a dtv/tivo problem. If anyone thinks otherwise they are FOS.

FOS ?

[joema]

I have a new HR10-250, connected via optical Toslink to a Yamaha RX-V1400. I've never heard the popping sound. I usually use the receiver's "auto detect" input mode, where it switches to DD 5.1, 2.0 or PCM automatically.

It seems to be an incompatibility between the HR10-250 and certain receivers. When you communicate with D*, be sure to list your exact receiver type, connection details, and receiver operating mode. You don't want them going to a lab and failing to reproduce it because their receiver doesn't expose the problem.

[pimpbot515]

OH, duh. Just got it.

Yes, that's productive. If anyone disagrees they must be full of it.

[MoviegoerMan]

Originally posted by Cheezmo
FWIW, I can't get it to "pop" on my Parasound AVC-2500. I see the OSD go from Digital PCM, then briefly to "Unknown Digital", then to Dolby Digital 3/2.1.

Switching from DD to PCM, DD to DD, or PCM to PCM I don't see the brief "Unknown Digital" message.

It's nice to see your receiver is ignoring the garbage that the Tivo is sending, but it also confirms that they are sending garbage... i.e. "Unknown Digital".

Below is the response I got this weekend after sending an email to DirecTV feedback:

---------------------
Dear Brian,

Thanks for writing. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem
you're
having. Since it's difficult to troubleshoot technical issues by email,
please call our technical support center and discuss the problem with
one of our technical representatives. To reach them, just call
1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Sincerely,

Greg
DIRECTV Customer Service
---------------------

I'll be calling as soon as I get a few hours of time to waste. I suggest we all do the same.

[jeffl]

Originally posted by pimpbot515
OH, duh. Just got it.

Yes, that's productive. If anyone disagrees they must be full of it.

Pimp, I am not trying to be productive but I want this thing to be fixed asap. It seems like some will defend the tivo to no end. To blame the amp manufactures on this one is ridiculous. Why does every other component work? I am also sick of D* not fixing their technical issues. Every time we call in they say that "oh, thats the first we have heard of that problem". This is not directed at you, but please explain why you think it isn't Tivos fault or issue.

[pimpbot515]

My reasoning for thinking it isn't the Tivo is that my current SAT-HD200 does this, as did my previous DirecTV receiver. I have never owned a DirecTivo but am trying to see how they behave before I purchase one. Now, DirecTV/Tivo may be able to fix this through software downloads or hardware changes but the fact is that some preamps/receivers don't have this problem. My previous Denon had no problems but my current H/K preamp does.

My guess is that some DD decoders are more sensitive or slower to lock onto the bitstream. My preamp is also terribly slow when locking onto PCM digital from my CD changer and cuts off the first second of music. I do agree it would be nice if DirecTV acknowledged the problem.

Again, this is just my GUESS. I'm not an engineer, but I am occassionally FOS. :)

[jeffl]

My samsung t150 also used to do the same exact thing. It was fixed with an upgrade. So lets hope that they fix this annoying headache.

[Lee Bombard]

My reasoning for thinking it isn't the Tivo is that my current SAT-HD200 does this

I owned a Sony SAT-HD200 for about a year or so prior to the HD/Tivo. The Sony did not have this issue on my Pioneer Elite VSX-49 but the HD/Tivo does. Same receiver input, same optical cable, same everything...

[rtalley55]

My first HR10-250 did NOT exhibit any popping sounds. I exchanged that unit due to a failed HDMI output. I had the 1st unit for 2 weeks. I noticed popping on the second unit immediately. I am using all the same equipment, connections, and cables. I just plugged the new unit into all of the existing cables.

So, it does appear to be a problem that can be avoided by the HR10-250 units.

[jjmpeters]

Well after not hearing from D, I gave them a call. Nothing has been done to investigate my/our problem. I was told that it would be escalated again, but "no one else has reported this".

I told the rep that I know for a fact that several people had reported this, and that this was reminiscent of the HDNet Audio Loss problem, where we were told we were the only ones with the problem.

Doesn't look like we'll see any resolution anytime soon.

EVERYONE WHO HAS THIS PROBLEM - PLEASE CALL. Ask for Advanced Tech Support and make sure they escalate it.

Thanks.

John


Originally posted by jjmpeters
After I called to notify D that I would be returning the replacement unit, I asked to talk to tech support. I think they referred to it as advanced tech support, and the guy I talked to referred to it as the TiVo department.

He said that he would escalate this as an issue and that I should hear back in less than a week as to what direction D would be taken with this problem.

I'll let you know when I hear anything. Its not like I plan to live without the HDTiVo, but if they can't fix I'd like some dollars off.

[Enigmatic]

Well, I had a different issue with DD (constant dropouts), as I reported earlier in this thread. Well, I finally heard from a member on AVS that had the exact same problem, who tried the TiVo with a different receiver (we both have Sunfire TG2). Since the issue didn't appear with the receiver, the assumption was it was something to do with the Sunfire. Sunfire was contacted and noted that there was a free upgrade available for the TG2, giving the latest edition software, with several bug fixes.

I talked to Sunfire as well, and got an email from them detailing how to tell what version I had, how to get the upgrade, etc. I called for the upgrade and received it today. According to the description of the bug fix; the affected change was to mute "non-standard DD bit-streams". Once the fix had been made I haven't experienced any more drop-outs. The downside is now I'm getting the pops that others are describing; only occasionally though, and though fairly loud; not frighteningly so.

I would also like for D* to fix this via firmware upgrade. I never had any issues with drop-outs with the Sunfire with any other piece, including 3 diff DVD players, PS2, and Dish 6000; the dropouts were caused by the Sunfire's muting circuit, due to "out of spec" DD. The fix lessened the muting criteria, and stopped the dropouts, but allowed some of the pops through. I think the ball is in D* court now; apparently some receivers deal with the out of spec DD better than others.

[jeffl]

I am on my second tivo and both exhibited this problem the exact same way. I called D* at least five times and they denied hearing about the problem. It is so bad at times I am afraid my speakers are getting damaged. As usual D* ignores technical issues.

[purple6816]

I just bought a HDTivo and I see it through my Onlyo 989v2. I am usuing the fiber jack on the Tivo and Stereo. So the problem must be in the Tivo box. Maybe the signaling.?

I had a regular DTivo hooked up the same way yesterday and did not have this issue.

I will call when I have hours to explain it to DirectTV.

[Todd76]

Is this the same problem you guys are talking about (check the dates in the thread):

http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?threadid=35185

[eroseme]

Just configured my new HR10-250 on Monday (for OTA only so far) and freaked out when my Pioneer VSX-49TXi audio dropped out after the "popping", which is more like a shriek on my system. Sure seems like this will destroy my speakers.

Anyway, I'll call it in when I get my dish up and order the service. Thanks to Moviegoerman for the detailed analysis.

FYI - my SAT-T60 pops when the TIVO delete tone acknowledges a deletion. This is not a pop.

Eric

[dcpoppy]

They told me today (3rd call) to tell you guys to call again and ask that this be put on the anomaly list to get it on their radar. Escalations seem to do nothing.

The problem is they can't reproduce it (b/c they don't have a $4k receiver) so it isn't acknowledged as a problem. Anyone want to donate their Pioneer VSX-49txi?

[dirtypacman]

just a note for all--- on Pioneer 810H hooked up to sony reciever--- I get the same static/pop noise when I use FF or RR or double click fast.

It does not concern me though.

[Lee Bombard]

The problem is they can't reproduce it

Their denial is getting pretty boring.



I get the same static/pop noise when I use FF or RR or double click fast.

Different noise, different problem.

[jeffl]

Well, this doesn't seem like it will get fixed anytime soon. I should have expected that. D* as usual ignores technical problems.

[slocko]

I had the same problem and I think the latest sofware upgrade fixed the FF problem, but not sure. Need to use it more b4 I can say it has been fixed.

Originally posted by Lee Bombard
Their denial is getting pretty boring.





Different noise, different problem.

[Dave E H]

I got the new software last night so I'll have to test tonight to see if it fixed this drop out issue. It's truly terrifying.

[eroseme]

Sorry gang - I have the new Tivo download and I still get the speaker-shreading static blast. I had recorded "Lost" (good show - surprising!) on OTA ABC HD, and when I pressed play, the transition to the HD recorded show was accompaied by the static blast and the receiver shut down the input. Too bad. I am going to try setting up the season pass(es) to start 2 minutes early, because maybe if I hit a commercial in non-5.1 it will avoid the blast. The entire recording of "Inside the NFL" from HBOHD played flawlessly, but it's not in HD or 5.1.

On another topic, in another thread someone was hopeful that the new download would provide closed caption on HD, but that does not work either.

PS - I did call this in to DirecTV.

Eric

[jjmpeters]

OK gang, I just spent 15 minutes holding and 35 minutes talking with DirecTV's TiVo support. Again this is the first time the rep had ever heard from about the problem. Even after the rep talked to 4 supervisors and a tech, this was the first they had heard about it. I can't be much a problem if they have never heard of it, right? I liken this to the HDNet audio loss problem which no one ever heard of before either.......



The only way this problem is going to be resolved is if we contact them all at once. Let's do the following:

1. Call DirecTV at 800-695-9251. If Michelle is there, ask for her since that's the rep I talked to. Tell her that John Peters had talked to her at 6PM eastern time on 9/27.

2. Describe the problem as a static blast when anything disrupts the DolbyDigital sound stream, i.e. changing channels, tuners, FF, Rev, etc.

3. Explain the steps you've gone through to isolate the hr10-250 as the problem, i.e. swapped out the cables, ports, no problem with existing DirecTV in DD, etc.

4. Tell them you want this issue "Tracked". Michelle said this will require it be reported to engineering.

5. Email DirecTV at

Feedback (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/glb/Form_Feedback.dsp)

Select the topic: Technical and enter the Subject: HR10-250 Static Blast

Go on to describe your problem and frustration, if any, with getting this issue resolved.


6. Record here that you have performed these instructions, and any interesting results. Record the name of the rep you talked to, and date so we can stop the excuse about never hearing of this issue.


Thanks everyone!

[Dave E H]

question: does anyone have the directv protection plan? I believe you get routed to a different set of reps if you do.

[jeffl]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jjmpeters
[B]OK gang, I just spent 15 minutes holding and 35 minutes talking with DirecTV's TiVo support. Again this is the first time the rep had ever heard from about the problem

I have called at least five times about this issue. They deny this kind of thing all the time

[TAKECOVER]

You are correct Dave, The two times they admitted to the problem, I spoke with someone in the "extended warranty" department. Only TWO out of SEVEN calls I made did I get anyone familiar with the problem. If anyone calls, please ask to speak with these guys, as they do seem familiar with our problem. Everyone with this problem, please continue to call these warranty techs and voice your problem!

Jimmy

[zxrocksteve]

I also had this problem with my Denon 3802 when I got my HDTivo. It would sometimes make a very loud squeal type sound when changing OTA digital channels. I also had a problem where the audio of a recorded program would not immediately start. I usually would have to rewind to the beginning of the recording to hear the first few seconds of dialog. I recently replaced the Denon 3802 with a Denon 3805 and have not noticed the loud sound problem. There is still very brief pause before the audio starts when playing a recorded program, but it is much shorter.

[Ereth]

I just enabled my Dolby Digital when my brand new AR cable arrived and was stunned to discover that changing channels (or going from DirecTV Central to Live TV) would generate a horribly loud static pop that would actually cause my Pioneer VSX-47tx to TURN OFF. I have to turn the receiver back on whenever this happens.

My Sony SVR-2000 DTivo is also connected by optical cable and outputs Dolby Digital into the same Receiver and I've NEVER had that happen to it!

[jjmpeters]

Please contact DirecTV and report this problem!


Originally posted by Ereth
I just enabled my Dolby Digital when my brand new AR cable arrived and was stunned to discover that changing channels (or going from DirecTV Central to Live TV) would generate a horribly loud static pop that would actually cause my Pioneer VSX-47tx to TURN OFF. I have to turn the receiver back on whenever this happens.

My Sony SVR-2000 DTivo is also connected by optical cable and outputs Dolby Digital into the same Receiver and I've NEVER had that happen to it!

[AustinJerry]

John,

Thanks for the guidance about reporting this problem to DirecTV.

I have an HR10-250 with a Denon 4802 that has been exhibiting the statis sound issue since I got the TiVo several months ago. The recent software upgrade made no difference.

What is annoying to me is that there doesn't seem to be a repeatable pattern for the problem. Based on my observations, I think it occurs only on Dolby Digital signals that have been recorded from the OTA tuner. The static sound happens for me when I fast forward a digital recording and then hit Play. I get the static sound, and then the 4802 shuts down the input. I recover by switching the input to something else, and then back to the 4802. It only happens when I fast forward 2X (i.e. >>), and never when I fast forward 1X. The problems seems to come and go, which is extremely annoying. For several days this week, I never had the static noise. But last night, watching several pre-recorded shows from ABC, the sound happened every time I exited fast forward.

Of course, we can avoid the problem by turning off Dolby Digital, but that isn't a good option.

I'm with you--I'm calling DirecTV right now, and will continue to do so until we get satisfaction.

Jerry

[Lee Bombard]

Of course, we can avoid the problem by turning off Dolby Digital, but that isn't a good option.

Tell me about it. I've not been able to use the DD since May because of this issue.

Let us know how DirecTV handles your call.

Regards,
Lee

[AustinJerry]

Update:

Just got off the phone with DirecTV 2nd-level support. Here is what the support technician said:

- She "thinks" there have been other calls reporting similar problems.
- The number of calls seems to be less that five, which is the threshold at which the problem gets escalated to engineering.

Her advice:

- Call 1-800-695-9251 (direct line to 2nd-level support)
- Refer to the problem as "Dolby Digital audio dropping out..."
- Ask whomever you are talking to to refer the case to representative HUN02921 (the person I was talking to).

If each of you who considers this problem to be serious would take a few minutes to report the problem, perhaps a second time, this might prompt some action on DirecTV's part. There is strength in numbers, I hope!

Thanks,
Jerry

[jjmpeters]

Just got off the phone with DirecTV. Followed the process that AustinJerry indicated. Took a long time for the transfer to 2nd level support.

I reached a different call center so couldn't talk to HUN02921.

After the usual runaround, I asked and the rep checked with engineering.
I was told YES, they are aware of the problem and looking for a solution but no ETA.

When I stated that I would call back if I hadn't heard anything in a month, rep offered to fill out a downtime report where a super would call me back. Then he said that this wouldn't really help, and they would just go through the same questions he had to.

He then offered to send me to the Resoltion Department to see if they could do more then he could.

After waiting 45 minutes, I gave up.

[Digital XTC]

gentlemen, i am afraid we are screwd.
just spoke with tech support at DTV(3 diff people) and this is not seen as an issue. They actually told me to just turn off my pioneer recvr and then turn it back on when this happens OR turn off DD. GREAT, what the hell did is spend $900 for?

what a bunch of jerks.

[jeffl]

Originally posted by Digital XTC
gentlemen, i am afraid we are screwd.
just spoke with tech support at DTV(3 diff people) and this is not seen as an issue. They actually told me to just turn off my pioneer recvr and then turn it back on when this happens OR turn off DD. GREAT, what the hell did is spend $900 for?

what a bunch of jerks.


If this is true I would think we have grounds for some legal action. Sooner or later our speakers will start popping. I could just purchase the new 3805 for 1K but I don't think the money is worth the upgrade. This is the tivo fault. None of my other ten components has ever done this.

[Ereth]

Interesting. I reset my HR10-250 and last night the problem occurred MUCH less often AND it only caused the receiver to shut down the input, as you others are reporting, rather than turning all the way off.

I am not sure why that would be a change from before, but it's at least somewhat of an improvement. jmpeters said that DTV is looking for a solution. I certainly wouldn't expect them to have one overnight.

[AustinJerry]

Ereth,

The fact that it shuts down the port only is no relief. When I watch a typical 60-minute program, I fast forward over commercials 3-4 times. If the audio drops out every time I resume playing after the FF, and the only way to fix it is to switch to another input, and then back to the TiVo, don't you see this as incredibly annoying?

We have been experiencing this for 4-6 months. Yes, we are probably reasonable people, but waiting this long stretches the patience of event the most reasonable person.

What we expect from a professional customer support organization is a problem tracking process whereby a problem is acknowledged, and an official response is provided to any new callers reporting the problem. Just imagine how our tone would be different if we were getting an answer like, "Yes, we acknowledge the Dolby Digital audio problem and our engineers are working on a resolution"! Surely this is a reasonable expectation.

I have been a Total Platinum DirecTV customer since the beginning (10 years?) and I feel that I am being treated poorly.

Jerry

[AustinJerry]

Well, I went for a couple of days without the static noise problem, and I was starting to think maybe the latest software upgrade fixed something. But this morning, it was back. <Sigh>

One of the most disconcering things about this problem is that it seems to be somewhat random. Has anyone figured out a pattern to the problem? Can you re-create it at will?

Jerry

[MoviegoerMan]

Originally posted by AustinJerry

One of the most disconcering things about this problem is that it seems to be somewhat random. Has anyone figured out a pattern to the problem? Can you re-create it at will?

Jerry [/B]

Refer to my previous post that describes how I've been able to reproduce the problem:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2181578#post2181578

It only occurs when switching from any PCM mode to a Dolby Digital 5.1 mode. The reasons I believe it are happening are listed in those posts above.

[jeffl]

This thing is driving me crazy. I am ready to throw this box out the window. I am regretting spending 1K. Over four months and still they have not corrected it. Of course we are talking about D*. I have live with music choice dropouts on my t160 for over 1 year so I guess 4 months is nothing.

[captain_video]

I have the same problem with the audio but it occurs when switching between any HD broadcast from DTV or any digital OTA station. Switching between normal DTV channels doesn't seem to be a problem. I've found that disconnecting the Toslink input and then reconnecting it will usually restore the audio. I've also tried using an optical to coax converter to see if it made any difference but the problem still persists. Switching inputs on my preamp/processor and back doesn't restore the audio either.

[AustinJerry]

I agree with MoviegoerMan, it appears to be a timing issue. There seems to be a slight audio pause between the time when you switch to a DD5.1 audio stream (or press Plan from fast forward). The pause seems to be designed to allow the audio switching to complete before passing the audio onto the receiver. For some reason, the pause either is missing, or isn't long enough, in some cases, which results in audio being sent to the receiver in the improper format, which results in the loud, scary digital blast that shuts down the receiver's audio protection circuits.

If the Toslink cable is hard to get to, you might try simply switching to a different audio input and back--this resets the circuit on my receiver.

Jerry

[MoviegoerMan]

Originally posted by jeffl
This thing is driving me crazy. I am ready to throw this box out the window. I am regretting spending 1K. Over four months and still they have not corrected it. Of course we are talking about D*. I have live with music choice dropouts on my t160 for over 1 year so I guess 4 months is nothing.

It is the only bug I've had with the Tivo that bothers me. It's still way better than my Dish 921, but I wished they would address the issue and fix it. The quicker fix is to find someone who is using an a/v receiver that works around the Tivo issue by filtering the bad packets, then go buy that one. Remember, I'm not saying the cheapest fix.

[jeffl]

Yeah the Denon 3805 does not have this problem so I was thinking of purchasing the 1k amp. I decided not to because I didn't feel the upgrade was worth it. Its up to D* to take care of their problems.

[Lee Bombard]

It is the only bug I've had with the Tivo that bothers me.

Amen to that!

[Zonie]

I have the same problem with statis pop. When I reported it to D* the instructed me to replace the unit. I did, and the new unit has the same problem. When I reported it the acknowledged it as a known problem and would track it.

Thanks for the instructions.

[sommers]

Having the same issue and I think Movie man has it figured out.
I seriously doubt any of the A/V mfg's are going to take "ownership" of this (I have a Pio 49TXi)---This will have to be addressed by D*
Does anyone think there can even be a download software fix for this?
Seems like a firmware up date is needed---IF this is correct--how would D* administer this? (over the phone line?).
I wouldn't look for them to pull everybody's box for an upgrade--way too expensive.
Can they activate the USB's remotely? Could this be an input interface for an upgrade? (if so, how would that be done?)
Tks Dave

[Ereth]

Originally posted by AustinJerry
Ereth,

The fact that it shuts down the port only is no relief. When I watch a typical 60-minute program, I fast forward over commercials 3-4 times. If the audio drops out every time I resume playing after the FF, and the only way to fix it is to switch to another input, and then back to the TiVo, don't you see this as incredibly annoying?

I agree it's annoying. I'm surprised, though, to realize that we aren't talking about the same thing. I can FF/REW/Trick Play, whatever all day and never have this happen.

It ONLY happens to me when I start playing back a pre-recorded show with a DD soundtrack (like, say, Lost), or I switch from a non-DD channel to a DD channel.

Once past that first "burp" (and yes, I have to switch inputs), it never happens again unless I start a different show or something.

I wonder why that's different?

(For what it's worth, I agree SO much that it's annoying that I switched back to PCM mode last night, even though I'm not having the problem as often as you).

[AustinJerry]

Ereth:

Yes, it is curious how it manifests itself differently for us. My theory is that the TiVo is sending a mal-formed audio signal to the AV system, and different AV systems react differently.

Jerry

[MoviegoerMan]

Originally posted by Ereth
I agree it's annoying. I'm surprised, though, to realize that we aren't talking about the same thing. I can FF/REW/Trick Play, whatever all day and never have this happen.

It ONLY happens to me when I start playing back a pre-recorded show with a DD soundtrack (like, say, Lost), or I switch from a non-DD channel to a DD channel.

Once past that first "burp" (and yes, I have to switch inputs), it never happens again unless I start a different show or something.

I wonder why that's different?


You can get it to happen using the Trick Play functionality (FF/RR/Advance/Skip, etc). You have to find a program that has the commercials recorded in PCM and the DD5.1 recorded for the show. If you skip into the commercial, the audio will switch to PCM. This would be the same as changing to a PCM channel as far as your a/v receiver is concerned. You can get the "static pop" sound to occur when you skip from the PCM commercial to the DD 5.1 show. It's very consistent if you have the recorded source to test it.

It is easier to reproduce it LIVE if you find two channels. One channel that is PCM and the other that is DD5.1. Then just use the Enter/Return button on the far bottom right of the remote to keep swapping the channels. You will hear the "static pop" everytime you go from PCM to DD5.1, but you won't hear it from DD5.1 to PCM.

My guess is the Tivo is spitting out an different DD format that some of our receivers can't process. Instead, they process the DD packets as PCM and that's when you here the POP.

[sommers]

Pio 49txi---vs switching inputs--I can go from a DD channel to a PCM channel then back to the DD one and that fixes it 99% of the time.
This seems easier to me than switching inputs
The "pop" occurs on live viewing just as much as on recorded

[jeffl]

I called d* to complain about this issue again and of course they have never heard of this. I am just about to put this thing up on ebay.

[AustinJerry]

Had hoped that the new "E" software download would have addressed the static pop issue, but no luck--it's still there. <sigh>

Jerry

[jeffl]

They can't even create a successful upgrade without screwing up the stb. I lost my ota meter due to E. I doubt that this will ever be addressed.

[vette1]

Originally posted by Lee Bombard
I get it too.

I'm using a Pioneer Elite VSX49TX receiver. When I have the Tivo set to output Dolby Digital audio I get a loud static clap whenever the channel changes from a Digital broadcast to an PCM analog broadcast and vice-versa. It mutes the receiver and I have to click to another input and then back again to restore audio. I'm forced to set the Tivo to only output analog audio all the time. Not a great solution.

It is a problem with the Tivo as any other digital device hooked up through the same cabling and inputs works great. Only the HD/Tivo is a problem.

Oh...and by the way. DirecTV has never heard of this issue. Call them and see.

I am having problems with my HR10-250 HDTV DVR and my Pioneer Elite receiver. Whenever I go to a DD channel I get a gargeled sound and then no sound at all. I read the other posts and it sounds like other people are having the same problem with Pioneer and also B&K. What we need to do is call Directv's Tier 2 HD Specialist department @ 888-713-7772 and log a complaint with them. They told me I was the first one to call however after reading this web site I see that there are more people who have the same problem too. They told me they will not fix the problem until a few people call with it.

EVERYBODY CALL SO WE ALL CAN WATCH AND LISTEN TO THE TV THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

Also post a message when you are done calling them so the tivo community knows how many people called Directv.

Thanks

P.S. My exact receiver is the 49TX

[vette1]

Originally posted by sommers
Having the same issue and I think Movie man has it figured out.
I seriously doubt any of the A/V mfg's are going to take "ownership" of this (I have a Pio 49TXi)---This will have to be addressed by D*
Does anyone think there can even be a download software fix for this?
Seems like a firmware up date is needed---IF this is correct--how would D* administer this? (over the phone line?).
I wouldn't look for them to pull everybody's box for an upgrade--way too expensive.
Can they activate the USB's remotely? Could this be an input interface for an upgrade? (if so, how would that be done?)
Tks Dave
I am having problems with my HR10-250 HDTV DVR and my Pioneer Elite receiver. Whenever I go to a DD channel I get a gargeled sound and then no sound at all. I read the other posts and it sounds like other people are having the same problem with Pioneer and also B&K. What we need to do is call Directv's Tier 2 HD Specialist department @ 888-713-7772 and log a complaint with them. They told me I was the first one to call however after reading this web site I see that there are more people who have the same problem too. They told me they will not fix the problem until a few people call with it.

EVERYBODY CALL SO WE ALL CAN WATCH AND LISTEN TO THE TV THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

Also post a message when you are done calling them so the tivo community knows how many people called Directv.

Thanks

P.S. My exact receiver is the 49TX

[vette1]

Originally posted by jeffl
I called d* to complain about this issue again and of course they have never heard of this. I am just about to put this thing up on ebay.

I am having problems with my HR10-250 HDTV DVR and my Pioneer Elite receiver. Whenever I go to a DD channel I get a gargeled sound and then no sound at all. I read the other posts and it sounds like other people are having the same problem with Pioneer and also B&K. What we need to do is call Directv's Tier 2 HD Specialist department @ 888-713-7772 and log a complaint with them. They told me I was the first one to call however after reading this web site I see that there are more people who have the same problem too. They told me they will not fix the problem until a few people call with it.

EVERYBODY CALL SO WE ALL CAN WATCH AND LISTEN TO THE TV THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

Also post a message when you are done calling them so the tivo community knows how many people called Directv.

Thanks

P.S. My exact receiver is the 49TX

[vette1]

Originally posted by Lee Bombard
I've received a replacement for this problem and it made no difference.

Keep us posted.

I am having problems with my HR10-250 HDTV DVR and my Pioneer Elite receiver. Whenever I go to a DD channel I get a gargeled sound and then no sound at all. I read the other posts and it sounds like other people are having the same problem with Pioneer and also B&K. What we need to do is call Directv's Tier 2 HD Specialist department @ 888-713-7772 and log a complaint with them. They told me I was the first one to call however after reading this web site I see that there are more people who have the same problem too. They told me they will not fix the problem until a few people call with it.

EVERYBODY CALL SO WE ALL CAN WATCH AND LISTEN TO THE TV THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

Also post a message when you are done calling them so the tivo community knows how many people called Directv.

Thanks

P.S. My exact receiver is the 49TX

[dcpoppy]

They tell everyone they were the first to call. I've lost track of how many times I have spoken with tier 2 support on this issue, only to be told everytime they have never heard of it before.

The bottom line is, until the reproduce the problem (which won't happen b/c they aren't going to buy a high end receiver for their test lab) they wont acknowledge it is a problem.

Now who's going to buy them a Pioneer Elite 49txi?

[TAKECOVER]

Where are they located? One of the many times I have called, I talked to someone in FL. If they are within 100 Miles of Me (Huntsville, AL) I will gladly make a trek. I get so tired of having to toggle between DD and Pro Logic to listen to a recorded movie. This is getting ridiculous, I know I have caleed them 5 times, and have gotten 2 people to admit their is a problem.

Jimmy

[JohnDG]

D* definitely has a problem coordinating the call reports across multiple call centers and problem reports.

For the UPN44 problem, a batch of faxes seemed to give the D* retention department something to escalate the problem with -- and the problem was fixed. This is from that thread:

"I just got off the phone with Clarence who is a DTV Customer Retention Dept Supervisor. They need 5 DTV customers to document the UPN 44 problem for him to escalate to Broadcasting for a fix.

You will need to fax the following:

Fax # 208-363-6444

To: Clarence - DTV Customer Retention Dept Supervisor

Message: (Short message...).

Include on the fax:

1.) DTV Account #
2.) Name on Account
3.) Phone # for the account"

Could you not do the same thing here?

jdg

[jeffl]

I called D* today to complain for the sixth time and here is some of what I got. The dude basically said that it happens on older/lower priced amps and he has never received a complaint about this issue with people that use higher quality amps. I said that my denon is pretty respected it was over 1K. He finished by saying that if the problem bothers me so much then I should purchase another amp. At this point I just laughed and hung up. I am sick of think about this issue.

[Dave E H]

oh my lord. my 49TX is in no ways cheap. Top of the line. Jeezus. I will call tonight and if they give me that crap, I'll cancel my account and ebay the damn thing. I pay them soo much money that I better be treated better than that.

[stlmike]

I just bought my HR10-250 last week and am experiencing audio pops via the optical input on my Pioneer 1014TX.

I read the entire thread and didn't see any resolution of the issue. I'm about to call DirectTV tech support at 800-695-9251, but wanted to check here if there has been any fix to this issue.

[scooby2]

Originally posted by stlmike
I just bought my HR10-250 last week and am experiencing audio pops via the optical input on my Pioneer 1014TX.

I read the entire thread and didn't see any resolution of the issue. I'm about to call DirectTV tech support at 800-695-9251, but wanted to check here if there has been any fix to this issue. Nothing at all. 90% of the time when you call DirecTV they say they have never heard of such an issue before.

Its frustrating!

[rgfcpq]

I am experiencing a similar problem that is more severe. I am getting a lot more static pretty much constantly on any Dolby Digital show. I reselect "THX" for audio format on my Denon AVR5600 ($1800 receiver -- not some cheapo) and that helps quite a bit, but does not eliminate it totally. What a poor design. I inadvertantly started a different thread not seeing this one here (titled Snap, crackle, pop) -- sorry the site won't let me post the link here as I am new -- but I give additional details there. I think I will call Directv back and refer them to this site.

[jeffl]

This is another issue that d* has ignored and continues to ignore. Many of us have reported this problem multiple times. Getting a new tivo will not help. Sorry

[stlmike]

I just spoke with level 2 customer support. The rep I spoke with said that the popping issue is known and will be addressed in the next software release.

We'll see.

[Dave E H]

That would rock if they fixed it. It's my only real complaint with my HDTivo.

[rgfcpq]

I have faxed them and emailed them through the directv website and got no response from the fax and this lame one from their online support. I am not optimistic. Anyone else get any other responses lately?

12/19/2004 06:18 PM

Dear

Thanks for writing. I'm sorry to hear about the technical problem you're having. Though it's difficult to troubleshoot most technical issues by email, we've found resetting your system often corrects what's wrong. Try these steps anytime there seems to be a problem:

1. Leave the receiver box on.
2. Unplug the receiver from the electrical outlet. (If your receiver's light is still on, you have pulled the wrong plug.)
3. Leave receiver unplugged for 15 seconds.
4. Reconnect it to the electrical outlet and return to normal viewing.

If this doesn't fix the problem, check the information at DIRECTV.com/troubleshooting. If you can't find a fix online, please call our technical support center at 1-800-531-5000 and select the option for technical assistance.

Thanks again for writing and I hope we're able to fix the problem quickly.

Sincerely,

Bryan
DIRECTV Customer Service

---------------------------------------------------------------
Original Message Follows:

12/18/2004 09:55 AM

DIRECTV FEEDBACK MESSAGE

Name: xxxxx

Status: Subscriber

[Account Number: xxxxxxxxx ]

E-mail Address: "xxxxxxxx"
[Topic Selected: Hdtv]


Details: I called tech support and got feedback that I was somehow having a unique problem with my HDTIVO unit. Specifically, the crackling and popping noises I was hearing through my receiver, connected via a digital optical connection. I am not the first to experience this and it needs to be fixed. I spend a tremendous amount with your company and dropped a $1000 on the hd tivo unit and and am VERY dissatisfied with the quality of the product at this point. I would like to know what you are doing to solve this problem.

Please refer to the below links for more information on the problem numerous users are experiencing:

STATIC POP THREAD...
xxxxx

AND ANOTHER ONE...
xxxxx


I phoned this problem in before reading these threads and the service rep (2nd level support) had never heard of the problem.

Please let me know how and when you plan to address this problem.

[smarsh66]

I have the 3805 and the HR10-250 using Toslink. no proplem what so ever or any hint of any sound problem.

Are you guys sure it's NOT a power issue? how the OTA or Sat antennas are grounded and/or the HR10-250? You could be causing a ground potential between the HR10-250 to the TV/Receiver via the Component and/or HDMI/DVI connections.... unplug the video out ONLY and switch channels and hear for the pop you are getting...

Sam

[JohnDG]

I have the 3805 and the HR10-250 using Toslink. no problem what so ever or any hint of any sound problem.

It is documented earlier in this thread that the Denon x805's are not affected by the bad bitstream (also documented).

I've got a 3802 and this is the only problem that is holding-up a purchase. I've been using the 3802 and DirecTivo's with DD (HBO, etc.) for years with no problems. As the problem manifests itself while skipping commercials -- a prime feature of a Tivo -- this is a deal breaker at the moment.

Maybe if the price drops low enough to justify a new receiver... ;-)

jdg

[bwperez]

I just purchased an HD Tivo and a Mit 52725. If I have the tivo hooked up through the HDMI I get snapping and poping trhough the audio. I had the system hooked up originally through the Component video and didn't notice the problem. I was searching the thread and am concerned about the problem as the issues with the sound are very annoying. I'll call D-TV in the morning, but does anybody have suggestions other than taking both items back?

[TAKECOVER]

Any news on this problem? Man, is this annoying, I just blasted the piss out of my ears. I really hope this can't hurt my new $4000.00 Definitive/Velodyne loudspeaker set up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AustinJerry]

No change for me with my Denon 4800. I have turned off Dolby Digital and listen to everything in Pro Logic. Very disappointing. :(

[Lee Bombard]

"No change for me with my Denon 4800. I have turned off Dolby Digital and listen to everything in Pro Logic. Very disappointing."

Same for me and my Pioneer Elite VSX49TX. Not at all happy.

[Dave E H]

I mute when I switch to a recorded HD program. Of course, I have to switch inputs before it comes back.

[rrhardy]

I've had this problem since June with a Pio Elite 49TXi, certainly not a cheap amp. My solution was to use an older Yamaha DD5.1 receiver I still had to do the DD decoding and run the Yamaha pre-outs into the multichannel inputs on the Pioneer. I've reported the problem to Directv support several times, with no serious/worthwhile response. Now that the HD-TiVo is effectively "obsoleted", it'll likely never get fixed - I just wonder if the new units will have the same problem...

[jeffl]

yeah I reported this problem to D* many times. Their response was that this only happens on cheap amps. I gave up after that.

[eroseme]

Isn't it funny how D* can avoid the issue just by fronting their service with the most ineffective people available. I wonder if that talent is in the job posting: "must be incredibly dense, must refuse to listen, must never acknowledge that the customer has spoken, must aspire to be William H. Macy in "Fargo"".

Sorry for the non-productive post, especially in light of exhibiting the exact behavior that they wanted: I gave up.

(Pioneer VSX-49TXi - cheap receiver)

[rdlrkl]

I searched the forums, and I may have missed it if anyone reported this problem, but I get static popping noises during playback of HD programs. It happens randomly during the course of playback, sometimes often and sometimes more sporadic.

Has anyone else had this? Any idea how to fix it? Thanks.

[Dave E H]

I don't get any _during_ playback - only at the start of playback.

[jjmpeters]

I gave up on DirecTV coming up with a solution on this and bought myself an Onkyo TX-SR702. I do get a click everytime it changes from digital to pro logic, but that I can live with.

[wabkab]

Denon 2805--never a problem.

[markvegas]

New to this forum but definitely have some input here...

I purchased two of these HR10-250's when they first came out and here has been my experience:

Started by hooking up my Pioneer VSX-49TXi and had the same problem as one of the other posts in this forum. When I called DirecTV they said they NEVER heard of the problem (I assumed this is because it was so new)... Whenever I changed to a HD/ or Dolby Digital channel/broadcast I heard a annoying sound from my speakers that could potentially be damaging depending upon your amp volume setting... I also would totally lose audio (I also noticed that the screen on the receiver did NOT display Dolby Digital so I assume it had a problem interpreting the audio track change). I got used to turning the receiver off and then back on and it picked up the audio track fine.

Next I hooked up the second HR10-250 to my really OLD Yamaha Dolby Digital receiver (a $300 receiver that I bought when Dolby Digital just was made available in main stream receivers). This receiver was able to change the audio tracks just fine when switching from analog to digital tracks/stations... must be a different DSP??

Many months later I finally purchased a Lexicon RX-8 which is their new high-end Dolby Digital/DTS... receiver. I hooked this receiver up to my HR10-250 (the one that my Yamaha was using) and I got a similar popping sound like in the Pioneer although not as bad and it did NOT lose the audio track... it was still able to continue with audio. Again, this popping sound could potentially do damage to my high-end speakers...

Now that is has been some time (well over 6 months I believe), I decided to call back DirecTV and report my problem and expected them to know about it... They again said they have NEVER heard about this problem:(

By the way, I tried both receivers (Pioneer and Lexicon) on both HR10-250's and still had EXACTLY the same problems... I was lucky enough to get Pioneer to completely gut the recevier under warranty and replace the main circuit board, including the DSP. When I got the new receiver back it had the SAME problem :(.

Now to the biggest problem:

Recently, my Lexicon Receiver seemed to freeze up and it set off a voltage trigger on my line conditioner/protector (Panamax 5300). After talking to Lexicon Tech Support (Harman International) they had me try all variations of resetting the receiver, including unplugging it... None of their reset techniques worked. After talking with them more, I mentioned that one of the pieces of equipment I had connected to the receiver was the HR10-250. AH HA they said... They went on to explain that there is a known problem that they are aware of that at any point in time this satellite receiver can do siginificant damage to the receiver and that it will require me to send it in to the factory and NOT to use this satellite receiver until there is a fix. I made a deal with them... they were first going to swap my new receiver with a refurbished one but we came to a different agreement: They are now sending me a brand new one in exchange for old one and for me to also send them my HR10-250 for a period of time for them to bench test it.

I also have explained all this to DirecTV and have been in discussion with a Program Specialist (someone beyond level 1 support) and he is trying to talk to some in engineering I think... He left me another message today saying that he was still waiting for feedback from his company... Not sure what will happen but I hope that I can make some headway. Now that I found this forum and post, I will let DirecTV know.

Anybody have any other thoughts?

Mark

[rrhardy]

>Anybody have any other thoughts?

As you have probably noticed, reading this LONG thread, Lee Bombard and I have the same Pioneer receiver (49TX, 49TXi) and the same problem. Others (on other forums) with this receiver have also reported the same problem. I think we've all reported this to DirecTV several times - and always this is the FIRST time they've ever heard of the problem (and several other receivers also have the problem). I guess the "fix" would be too complex/expensive for DirecTV to ever address it, so they've taken the "ignore" approach. Kind of disappointing.

[eroseme]

I have a couple of earlier posts about my experiences with the VSX-49TXi. In summary, exactly the same as yours, including the silly and transparent DirecTV repsonses.

Just a note (maybe you already figured this out): you don't have to power off the receiver to get the audio back. Just change the input to anything else then change it back. Also, I mute whenever I start a TIVOed item, then switch the inputs. I assume that everybody does the same thing.

[borgslayer]

I had the static pop using my Denon AVR 3802, it was becoming annoying. I decided to spring for the Denon 3805, no more static pop. I am happy about that. I don't know why the prev denon had such problems with the digital audio channels being changed, that's when the pop would be heard.

[dcpoppy]

Any news on this? Markvegas, please reply if they get back to you. I'm not holding my breath though, the guy I talked to last year promised to call and never did.

I called again today, and tier 2 has still never heard of it.

I'm also having the picture freeze problem, so I'm finally taking the replacement TiVo D* offered me last August. I'm sure it will be the same...

And I'm not getting rid of my Pio 49txi over this.

[SHOMan]

Hi,

I am new here and to D*. I just got my HD Tivo, and am experiencing the pop and crackle issue with my Pioneer TX-47. I have persistent in trying to get someone at D* to listen, and I have found someone who is willing to acknowledge the problem and escalate it in every way possible. I sent him links to this thread and another similar thread so he could see that there are plenty of us with the problem, and that we have been misled at the very least. He really seems to want to help. Below is the text of an email I received this morning, and the supervisor needs at least five of us to contact him with their account numbers and details of their problems.

Send your details to Georgi Zdravkov (Direct TV CS supervisor) at his gmail addresss - zdravkov@gmail.com. Apparently D*'s IP block has been banned from the forum, so he cannot post, but I assure you this guy is for real. We only need four more people to contact him to get this thing off the back burner. More would be better. The sooner he gets the five customers (I am the first), the better.

Please post back if you have any questions.


====== Email Text from George Zdravkov ==============

"Mr Erickson,

I acknowledge the problem and understand this is a cause of great frustration(certainly understandable) for many HR10-250 users. From the posts I've read(I couldn't go through them all) it is apparent this issue is affecting a wide range of a/v receivers and is definitely HR-caused. From here on this issue will have to be escalated through the appropriate internal channels for immediate resolution. I will need the names and account numbers of at least 5 active DTV customers(the more, the better) who are experiencing this problem, with you being the first, that leaves us with 4 to go. Due to company policies I am unable to post in any forums concerning DTV-related issues, but if a list of users(at least 4) is gathered, including the make and model of a/v receiver they're using in tandem with their HR10-250 I can assure you I will personally escalate this issue through every channel available to me. Be it corporate offices, engineering, broadcasting, etc. If not anything else, at least we won't be saying 'This is the first time we've heard of this!' any more. If you could also suggest a brief, written summary of what the issue is that would also help in our efforts. I would probably word it something similar to this: "When certain makes/models of audio receivers are used in concordance with the HR10-250 a static audio pop occurs when shifting from PCM Digital Audio or Dolby Digital 2.0 to Dolby Digital 5.1" You mentioned your are only experiencing this problem on playback of recordings on your 10-250, but from reading the forum, people are having this problem on live programming as well.. Now the first question I'll be getting from management or whoever I escalate this to is which brands/models of receivers are being affected by this. The ones I've came up with thus far are: Pioneer Elite VSX49TX Pioneer Elite VSX49TXi Pioneer Elite VSX47TX Onkyo TX-DS989 Onkyo SR600 Integra Research RDC-7 Denon 3802

Any additions to the list would be helpful.
Unless I am handed over the 4 additional account numbers, all I can do is wait for another escalated call from a customer with the same issue..and then wait for just 3 more similar calls..which is highly unlikely to happen. Hope we get those soon.

Regards,


George"

=========== End of Quoted email =================

[jjmpeters]

Well SHOMan, you may be new to D*, but you've received more of a response than any of us.

I gave up and sold me Denon AVR-3802 for $300 less than I paid for it, and bought a Onkyo SR702. I liked my Denon better, but I just couldn't live with this situation anymore.

Good luck!

[SHOMan]

I have received another message from George at D*, and he has received some reports as a result of my post. He asked me to remind folks to include their D* account number along with the details. He only need two more reports to get things going.

You can also Fax your issues to him at 801-579-2903.

PLEASE KEEP THE REPORTS COMING! We may actually able to move the big wheel on this one.

Thanks guys.

[dcpoppy]

I am pretty reluctant to send my account information to a gmail address. Maybe I'll call and ask for George... (nothing personal SHOMan, I'm just not a very trusting person)

[SHOMan]

I understand about the gmail address. I will ask George for a more "official way" to contact him via directv. That said, he is not allowed to post to the forums, so I am acting as a conduit at the moment. At least I got somewhere with this issue that has been unresolved for nearly a year.

I will contact George and find out how you can get a hold of him at DTV.

[Lee Bombard]

I sent him an e-mail and did include my account number. Guess that leaves just 1 more...

Lee

[SHOMan]

Based on the rapid response, George from D* was able to convince his boss to put this on the hot plate to engineering. Please keep the reports coming, as it will give George the ammo he needs to stay on top of this one. Here is the latest response from him. This guy is clearly on our side, so let's do our part by not giving up. They clearly see that this is something that needs to be corrected ASAP.

Many thanks to those that sent him an email, and please, PLEASE keep the reports flowing...At least we know they won't deny the problem any longer.

Persistance is the only solution with this type of issue. Too many of us still have the problem.

Thanks again folks!

===== Begin latest email reply from George at D*==============

Mr. Erickson,

Although with only 3 account numbers out of 4 e-mails this far, I have convinced my manager the issue is significant enough to be forwarded to engineering. It is now in the hands of engineering and at this point the wait begins. I will continually be pushing this and bringing it up, but I have no type of an ETA just yet. Keeping the account numbers/e-mails coming in would be a perfect reason to continue reminding them of this matter.

Your, and all the other users' patience is greatly appreciated

George
======= End email reply ============

[Lee Bombard]

Any update on this?

[nazz]

It is documented earlier in this thread that the Denon x805's are not affected by the bad bitstream (also documented).
jdg

I have a Denon 3805 connected to the HR10-250 via digital optical and I am experiencing frequent static audio pops. I never had this issue prior to my recent HR10-250 purchase.

I have sent my e-mail to George at D*

[Lee Bombard]

nazz -

Did you report it to DirecTV?

[nazz]

nazz -

Did you report it to DirecTV?

I sent the e-mail but did not report it by telephone.

[SHOMan]

I suggest that in addition to the efforts that George (CSR supervisor) at D* is making on our behalf, we continue to bombard the teir 2 folks, reminding them that they can no longer tell us that they never heard of this issue. George Z's employee number is 100089203. Let them know the cat is out of the bag. They have lied continually to the customers about this. George is real clear on the fact the this is not an minor issue after reviewing the posts. The engineers just don't want to deal with it, so let's just keep putting it in their face.

All they really have to do is put the delay in the software, as some of the audio gear folks have done, and the problem is solved.

The more George hears from us, the more he can bug his boss and the engineering department to get this issue resolved.

THanks to everyone who has sent the email, and PLEASE KEEP sending the reports to him, as well as teir 2 support.

I will get back when I get something more from George at D*

[kjean]

I also have static problems when wathing a program in Dolby Digital. I am on my 2nd box and its very frustrating. I have a Denon 5600 box. :mad:

[SHOMan]

Send an email to George at D* (check earlier message for his email) and place a call to teir two support and let them know your details. If they tell you they never heard of the problem, tell them respectfully that you know better. After many denials, we have the listening. The more people they hear from the better.

[Philbert1]

I just sent George an e-mail (I own a Pio 49TX). It would be great if this problem finally gets fixed! Thanks for getting this moving, SHOman!

- phil

[TomB]

Just sent Georgi an email. I own a Bang and Olufsen Beosystem 1. Some of my problem was reduced by putting a Radio Shack toslink to coax adapter in between the HR10-250 and the Beosystem, but some still persists. Hope Georgi is for real, and can act based on those emails...

Tom B.

[SHOMan]

In addition to working with George, I will be making a weekly call to the teir two support team, and I would suggest we all do the same. The number to teir 2 diredt is 888-713-7772. Talked to another supervisor who will be taking up the issue again with the engineers as it now a "known" issue not isolated to just a few users.

Please keep sending email to George, and give the teir 2 folks a tap on the shoulder at least once a week. We will get this fixed. All they need to do is add a little delay into the software for switching streams.

Another route I want to explore is the management at DTV, and let them try and tell me that this is a problem we have to live with. As a collective squeaky wheel, we can get this fixed in the next couple of months I would think. Ranting to each other here might be therapy, but DTV can't hear us.

Again PLEASE KEEP getting your emails to George, and make those calls to teir two support. Thanks for your help folks!

[SHOMan]

Just sent Georgi an email. I own a Bang and Olufsen Beosystem 1. Some of my problem was reduced by putting a Radio Shack toslink to coax adapter in between the HR10-250 and the Beosystem, but some still persists. Hope Georgi is for real, and can act based on those emails...

Tom B.

Tom B,

Thanks for the email to George. Now we have B&O on the list of affected equipment. Nice. Your toslink to coax adapter must be introducing a bit of delay, further evidence of a timing problem.

If you can, please place a call to tier 2 support as well, and get them to escalate as well.

[TomB]

Can do. The Beosystem digital audio would not using the toslink directly. Worked fine with my DVD player, but the HDTivo would not....

[jeffl]

Shoman, Thanks for taking on the fight. I have been complaining about this issue since last July. I have called many times and got stupid replies from CSRs. I emailed George about this issue also. I hope he can get something done.

[SHOMan]

Lastest report from George is that he has received just 10 emails. While this is good, where is everyone else? I noted that for every 10 that wrote, there are many more who did not. The noise has to be a bit louder to acheive what we want. He assures me that his manager is dealing directly with the head of engineering, but of course, engineering won't commit. George repeats that they owe us a fix rather than just admitting it is a known problem.

Perhaps we need to start a new thread.

PLEASE EVERYONE, write to George and call teir two until they correct this major problem.

Thanks for helping!

[Lee Bombard]

Hi SHOman -

First let me say how much I appreciate your spearheading this. It has been a problem for way too long.

However - George must understand that there have been many of us that have been making noise here as well as to DirecTV for over a year now only to be repeatedly told that they had never heard of the issue or that it simply wasn't a big enough issue to deal with. Someone along the line was even told that they should buy a better audio receiver. We've been getting a good deal of "lack of interest" from DirecTV on this issue for a while now. He should not be too suprised that we are not all tripping over ourselves to call and chat with them yet again.

That said, I did e-mail him and gave my account number and would love to see this fixed...but I'm not holding my breath.

I DO appreciate the effort.

Regards,
Lee

[SHOMan]

Lee,

Excellent points, and I completely understand. That said, I will not rest on this until I get the head of engineering to tell me to kiss off. Until, then I will assume that George and his boss will not let this one go, and if it is possible to fix it with software, then I believe we can get it fixed this time around.

My fear is that it may be an inherent problem in the hardware, which all the emails in the world won't fix. This combined with the fact that most of the software engineers must be working on the new hardware makes it an uphill climb. However, I believe we have truly made more progress than any previous effort on this problem.

I appreciate your willingness to put it out there one more time in hopes that they will fix this. With respect to getting better audio equipment, the list George has contains a majority of high end pro-sumer level gear and higher, so they can't be singing that tune. If anything, we should all go buy a cheap DD receiver and it might work better than our good stuff.

If we keep reporting to George, and keep calling teir two until they get it, I believe we can prevail.

Thanks for your insight.

[peddler]

I'm so glad I found this thread! I felt a bit alone with my problem. I have an Onkyo 600 and Comcast digital cable with the Motorola HD box and I get the exact same popping that you all are hearing. I have had the box replaced twice and had the receiver sent out for repair. They couldn't find anything wrong with the receiver and so i'm stuck. Comcast says it's the receiver and Onkyo says it's the box. Big surprise! It's interesting to hear about the timing issue with many of these other receivers. Is this info published anywhere? I think the problem is with the receivers since mine pops when switching from PCM to DD. I went out afew months ago and "rented" a yamaha HTR 700 receiver form best buy and hooked it up-no poping at all. their timing must be different.
I was a bit disturbed to hear someone earlier in this thread with a denon 3805 has this problem. I was thinkng about buying one. Does anyone else with a 3805 hear this?
I'm also looking at the Yamaha RX-V2500. Anyone have a problem with this receiver?

[fowler1merritt]

I have this same issue with my Lex MC-12. Drives me nuts. Very distracting.

[DVRDan]

I have a B&K AVR-307 which has always displayed these audio effects your all talking about.

Frustrating to say the least!

Someone was told to buy a more expensive box? lol!! like what? spend 6k instead of 3K? <rant>

Related story... recently I tried to hook up a R-10, 3 different ones from 3 different stores no less. Not ONE of them would output DD unless you "prompted" the B&K after EVERY function you did on the R-10. And of course after calling tech they had never heard of any problem like this before,period.

Needless to say while I want a hd tivo box... I'm fully expecting at the very least the popping if not the R-10 problem all over again. Which is a completely unacceptable proposition.

Again extremely frustrating as I have what most would consider a reasonably high end hand made american processor.

[wuench]

This is a little off topic, but I have an older Denon AVR-3600 attached to my tivo and whenever I 30 sec skip or ff the Denon "clicks" and the audio drops. Basically anytime the audio goes away.

I was just wondering if the new Denons do this.

It is kind of annoying, but maybe if this wasn't occuring I would be experiencing a static blast instead. Maybe Denon's old way of preventing these timing issues?!?

[jeffl]

Lee,

Excellent points, and I completely understand. That said, I will not rest on this until I get the head of engineering to tell me to kiss off. .

Any update? Has that happened yet?

[DolphinGirl]

In addition to the static pop when I change channels, I've noticed that the Tivo "beep" sound does not sound when I am watching a HD channel. However, it does work on non-Hd programs. I sthis another symptom?

[TomB]

OK, have received a 'reconditioned' box to replace my failed one, and the audio pop and silence are unchanged.

[dcpoppy]

In addition to the static pop when I change channels, I've noticed that the Tivo "beep" sound does not sound when I am watching a HD channel. However, it does work on non-Hd programs. I sthis another symptom?

This is working as designed. The TiVo can't insert TiVo sounds into a Dolby Digital stream because it would have to manipulate the stream rather than passing it directly through.

[SHOMan]

Any update? Has that happened yet?

Below is the latest email I have received from George at D*. According to him, the issue has reached engineering and corporate, but not response as of yet regarding a fix or even an acknowledgement or case number. I responded to this email with an analogy about going to a restaurant and ordering a meal, but the waiter says "I am not sure when or if you will get your dinner, but we are working on it, have patience." I told him it was difficult to have patience when they now have enough evidence to give this thing a case number.

In the meanwhile, my last call to teir 2 support resulted in a third unit being overnighted to me, along with a free visit an advanced installer from D* biggest and best contractor here in Portland. I was rather impressed with that level of service. Of course, the new unit did not correct the problem. The tech was convinced that the HD Tivo was the source of the problem, and took a printout of this thread with him. When the supervisor who set all this up called back to check on things, he agreed to have my entire system re-installed, as I had a real horror-show install. The tech who came out was appalled at the install. So, if I could just get the engineering department to deliver this level of customer focus, life would be good. I now have 2 extra remotes and a bunch of extra cables.

Here is what George had to say - he advises us to stop calling teir two, as they will not be made aware of the problem until a determination is made, hence their statements that they have not heard of the problem.

====== begin message from George

Mr Erickson,

I would suggest you stop calling Tier 2. They are not the ones who are
going to resolve the problem. The issue is now in the hands of
engineering, and tier 2 will not be made aware of it until there's a
resolution or corporate has made a decision as to what the resolution
is going to be. When that answer comes, you'll be the first to become
aware of it. That is when a case number will be assigned as well. The
problem is being worked on, please give us time. Tier 2 agents are not
made aware of issues we don't have the resolution to. My message has
been received. Have patience.

Regards,

George
======

[jeffl]

Good try Shoman but I think they will hold off on this fix. At least you tried. You know I just might follow the advice of the CSR/tech who told me (last year) that if the problem bothered me so much, I should just get a new amp. He also said that this only happens with cheap/inferior amps and higher end equipment wasn't plagued by this problem. LoL I still have to laugh at those comments.

[SHOMan]

I have one last avenue to take. Someone from the company that did my re-install (and what a great job they did...the first install was a total hack) tells me can get an answer in the next few days as to whether or not this will be addressed in the upcoming patch, which he describes as kind of a 6.2 lite for the HD boxes.

He has taken apart the R10 and HR-10 and tells me the digital I/0 subsystems are completely different between the two boxes, so it may not be something they can fix in software. That would account for a year going by without any fix.

I have not given up entirely and will report back in next few days.

[bpayne]

SHOMan,


Glad to here that the guys who did your 're-install' do a good job. The techs were Quality Control Technicians, not full-time installers! Their whole purpose is to check up on issues like these and resolve them in the exact manner they did for your system. I've also been told that the folks who did your install are now 'out of the DirecTV business'. I'm pleased to know that they took care of you and got your system up to code as well as DirecTV expectations. We have a conference call tomorrow and this issue is on my docket to be discussed. Just a word of warning; I cannot mention this forum on the call as a source of this information. They'll want first-hand quantifiable reports; which for me and my market, is only going to be SHOman. :o
I know this is frustrating, but I have to work within the boundaries I am given. So if anyone else has this problem in the Portland, OR market please sing out now. If they ask me to provide additional accounts of this issue, I'll refer them to their tier 2 records and hopefully have something stick.

I'm still working on contacting other individuals about this so that avenue is still wide open.

[SHOMan]

bpayne,

The guys did better than up to code, I can't tell you how much better the thing looks, and as you know, it rained like heck today, and guess what, I didn't lose my signal... They found at least one or two place where staples had penetrated the lines. I have 100% signal on the stronger transponders. Very happy camper indeed. :)

Understood about not being able to discuss the forum, but maybe you can mention George Zdravkov, CSR sup I have been communicating with, employee #100089203 who tells me he has a number of reports from other customers with same issue. 'Nuff said.

Thanks again, and I look forward to the outcome of that call.

[RBMD]

I was so excited to get my new 10-250 using the BB coupon. Now I'm sad. My unit makes the loud screech too and puts my Denon AVR 4802-not cheap- into the protection mode. I too am worried it's going to blow the tweeters on my Def Tech speakers. It happens on recorded 5.1 shows after FF and returning to Play. Has anyone had speaker damage yet? It's an awful sound. Tried to report it but D*s systems are down and I was asked to call back, which I will. I will also e-mail George. BTW I'm in the Portland Or area( Stayton ).
Rich

[jeffl]

RBMD, Welcome to the group. I have been living with this for over one year and finally decided to go analog outputs instead of dd. Speakers have not experienced any damage that I can tell at this point but I have learned to listen at low volumes. Sorry to hear another case has evolved.

[SHOMan]

RMBD,

Sorry to hear about your problem, but glad to hear that you live not far from Portland, and perhaps it will give BPayne at D* main install provider for our area another case to report on. I have a Pioneer TX-47, and Boston speakers and have not had any tweeter issues, but I am careful to turn down the sound before changing things. I can't live with analog outputs, so I live with the work-around for now. We are hoping to hear some kind of response from one or more sources soon.

bPayne, is Stayton out of your service area? Can we get this guy's issue documented and get some sort of response out of D*. Any news from the phone call?

[grateful1]

I just recently purchased the 10-250 and have the Denon 3802. If I hook up the audio via RCA cables and not digital optical, will I still experience the same noises as everyone else on DD programs? My understanding is that I will be fine as the RCA connection is analog and apparently people have only been experiencing issues when hooking up via optical, right?

[RBMD]

My problem is with optical, recording in DD from OTA antenna. Haven't tried just stereo or Sat DD recordings yet, but according to the other posts it doesn't happen except in DD recordings usually OTA recordings and only using some amps not others but your amp appears to be affected. It's, not the connection type per say, it's the type of recording. You still will need the optical to decode DD for the rest of the SAT DD audio. My "live" SAT stuff seems to work just fine in DD.
Rich

[grateful1]

So if I don't have my sat box hooked up via digital optical then I shouldn't have a problem, right?

[RBMD]

Right. But you really should, as DD thru the optical on SAT 5.1 audio for those programs broadcast as such is so much better( 5.1 surround) than 2 channal stereo. . I also suspect your digital to analogue converter in the Denon is far superior to the DAC in the 10-250, thus better sound all the way around. Thus transfer the digital signal from the 10-250 output to your Denon via optical. For right now I'm merely not going to watch any 5.1 programs recorded on the TIVO from OTA (antenna) programs and cross my fingers not to hear the squeal. You also can't really be sure you are affected until you hear it. So far no one reports any serious damage to anything yet. I'd suggest you hook up the optical, record some 5.1 shows from OTA and Sat, turn your amp all the way down fast forward then hit play and see what happens. Don't hold me responsible though, but so far the protection circuit in the denon have prevented any damage to my speakers. Good Luck
Rich

[SHOMan]

The problem is switching PCM->DD, so you guys can still use optical, but turn off recording and output in DD in the audio options menu. No need to use analog cables to avoid the noise.

[bpayne]

Stayton is in our service area.

Couldn't cover this issue on the conference call. The focus right now is on Voip and DirecTivos. I've still got my contacts, one of which- for sure, can address this perhaps.
I say 'perhaps' because I have a feeling I already know what they're going to tell me.

First the bad news:

I went back and checked the SPDIF out on the HR10-250. Something wasn't right. I went and got my magnifying glass. Grabbed my R-10 test unit and checked that. Ack! They have essentially the same interface and chipset. The HR10-250 has different "pathways" (actually, they would be leads) through the pcb and ends up taking a different route to the codec chip. I got it mixed up with a different IC and that's how I arrived at the wrong conclusion. Has everyone come to a consensus as to whether R-10s exhibit the same pop. Honestly, I haven't checked back through the thread to see if anyone has said otherwise. It's probably redundant anyways. Here's why; if the conjecture is correct that the pop is caused by the bitstream not being locked in fast enough, and a customer's receiver manifests that lack of usable signal by making the pop (and then reacting to that according to the receiver's software e.g. shutting down, cutting DD detection etc) then this is probably an CPU util. issue. If it's some sort of latency issue i.e. you change the channel, the full bitstream from the transponder is detected, demodulated, de-encrypted, decompressed, cached, buffered, decoded and then sent out of the SPDIF to the AV receiver, the pop might be caused by the AV receiver reacting to a 'null' stream signal. If that's the case, which is doubtful, it *still* might be some sort of I/O problem such as cpu util. issue.

Great, I used alot of complex language to explain what *might* be the cause of a problem that everyone wants fixed."Thanks for wasting our time, bpayne..."

And now, the good news. Perhaps...

Alot of the problems that ALL DTV boxes face (not just the Tivos) are caused by cpu utilization issues. 18 months ago, we had a major issue with the Samsung TS360 boxes in that they wouldn't lock into KOIN 6-1 under most circumstances. I escalated the issue to DirecTV for months and months and months and months. Each time I escalated it, I was told it was the first time they had heard of the problem from anywhere. Finally, DirecTV said it was KOIN's fault. KOIN said it was Samsung's fault; that there are known issues with Samsung boxes decoding the version of the PSIP software they were using. Samsung said there was "no known issue" and they had "never heard of it". Starting to sound familiar? The most vexing thing in all this is that the previous generation of Samsung HD boxes, the TS160, had absolutely no problem in decoding 6-1. In fact, they use the same Digital Sound Codecs!! Ack! Where does it end?? Finally, I kind of gave up. I stopped sending in the customer complaints to DirecTV and just shipped them straight to our FOM. He called me up; "Yeah, we've been dealing with these complaints for months." What?! "Yeah, we've had numerous problems with certain channels. There's a patch coming out in a few months. It's in beta right now."

"So it's going to improve OTA reception?" I asked.
I heard papers shuffling. "Let me check my notes." Pause. "Uh. Nope, no mention of any fix regarding OTA reception or decoding performance."
I was disappointed. "What's the patch fixing?"
"I think it's just to add 72.5 and 95 functionality. A couple of other bug fixes. No mention of off-air reception though."

Well, I remember 12-16-04 like it was yesterday (at least I **think** that was the date!). The patch came and went; I installed a TS360 into a customers home, channel 6-1 wouldn't come in. The patch would download after the box add been on for 15 minutes. *Pop* 6-1 came right in. What the...?

Release notes say some minor bugs were corrected improving cpu utilization. CPU utilization went up and 6-1 dialed right in! Huh. Tivo has a similar analog; the 6.2 patch changed the way data is stored in the indexes and tables of the guide database. It improved I/O performance and that, in turn, corrected alot of issues (speed of guides, SP speed, menu access times).

In some way, I'm expecting history to repeat itself again. My contacts will tell me 1) We've never heard of the problem before- this is not a known issue. Or maybe 2) Yes, this is a known issue- along with another host of bugs we've been dealing with regarding digital audio incompatibilities. Period. And then the HR10-250 6.2 update comes out and [hopefully] corrects it. Remember, this is just conjecture and I wouldn't bet *my* HR10-250 on it happening, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happened.

I'll check back regularly if anyone has any questions or comments.

[RBMD]

Evidently this problem affects different amps in different ways. I just checked my system which is using a Denon4802 amp. I do fine switching between any of the satellite channels, including those broadcasting DD and DD5.1 and those channels not labeled, either recorded or live. The only time I get the squeal is when I FF on a recorded OTA channel in DD5.1 and then pressing play to stop the FF. So for my system I just need to avoid this one move, no others. If you have a Denon amp it may not be necessary to disable DD entirely.
Rich

[SHOMan]

bpayne,

Thanks for that verbose feedback. I boiled it down to a couple of things.

D* is very good at avoiding being "direct" (no pun intended) about these issues. From my experience with this problem, it seems as though they have standard instructions to say they never heard of any of these issues, although you can get the occasional teir two CSR that does admit they know about it.

The R10 does NOT have the problem when put it in place of the HR-10, so your theory about CPU usage might have some merit. It would account for variances in the severity of my issue.

I believe they do know about this issue, and a host of others, and the reason it has not been addressed is because there is some inherent design issue in the hardware that prevents a fix, and until recently, the number of these units out there has been a drop in the bucket with respect to the total number of receivers in service. The sad part is that we are not going to be atypical customers for very long. HDTV goes hand-in-hand with surround audio equipment, and by Christmas the number of people experiencing this problem will increase dramatically.

I also believe that the fix will be a new DVR. The CPU on this unit is clearly overtaxed, just look at the damn slow menus.

It is unfortunate that you were unable to bring this problem up in the phone call. It sounds like your contacts are not going to be much help, and we are back at square one. If this problem was fixable, it would have been fixed by now. Many of these folks have waited over a year, and have seen nothing. I don't think George is having any better luck at getting an answer from engineering than I can get from a CSR. Nobody seems to be able to help. I am calling customer retention next week and ask for some kind of significant credit on my account. With any other piece of gear that was doing this kind of thing, I would have a choice and be able to return it for something else. In this case, I don't.

This really sucks. I do appreciate your efforts, and hope that your contact can shed some light on the situation.

Do you know when the 6.2 update for the HR-10 will be pushed out the door?

Thanks for trying.

[SHOMan]

bpayne,

One more thing. Why can't we get 10-2 on the HR-10? The D* OPBS looks bad, and I can get it on my ATSC TV tuner, but not on the HR-10. It appears that since D* has not mapped it in the guide, you can't get it.

The reason why 10-2 is important is that 10-1 is not a digital version of the regular programming, just HD material. The digital 10-2 is a mirror of the standard programming. We need to get that sub-channel, we have all of the others, I don't get it.

Thanks again.

[TomB]

Well, got a replacement HR10-250 follwing problems with my original device. The new one (well, appears to be 'reconditioned', but new to me) seems to have a slightly higher incidence of the 'pop and silence' problem, with the silent phase lasting just a bit longer (on the 3 second side of the 2-3 second pause). Sigh.

Tom B.

[TomB]

Just curious, but I have seen reports of this problem being on recordings... Whenever I have the problem, I can replay the spot that had the pop/silence, and hear the audio for that part, so I do not believe that it is being recorded. I'm not an EE, but could it be something like a static discharge? Could it be something that might be alleviated by an additional ground? Can anyone verify that this is on a recording? Even when I hear it on a recording, if I back it up it is not there.

Tom B.

[rrhardy]

Just curious, but I have seen reports of this problem being on recordings... Whenever I have the problem, I can replay the spot that had the pop/silence, and hear the audio for that part, so I do not believe that it is being recorded. I'm not an EE, but could it be something like a static discharge? Could it be something that might be alleviated by an additional ground? Can anyone verify that this is on a recording? Even when I hear it on a recording, if I back it up it is not there.

Tom B.

No - of course everything in TiVo is "recorded" in a sense, but I get the snap crackle pop when I switch to a DD (via optical) "live TV" HD feed (HBO or over-the air), as well as recorded. And the sounds aren't recorded, it's the switching that results in the sound. This is with a Pio 49TXi receiver - an older Yamaha integrated amp with DD has no problems (and I now feed its output into the Pio!).

[TomB]

OK, I get an audio 'pause' when I switch channels or display the guide, but also get an occasional 'pop' with a momentary (2-3 seconds) silence while watching shows (either live or from the now playing list). The channel switch or guide audio pause is acceptable, as I am 'changing' and not 'watching' but the pop/silence is irritating. With my replaced (reconditioned, just got it) model the occurrences seem more common. Kinda makes me look forward to the replacement box this fall.... I understand that there are some people in DirecTV aware of the issue, but haven't heard if they are making any progress in identifying the root cause.

Anybody hear from DirecTV on this issue? I have gotten some responses from Georgi that they are finally aware of it, but...

Tom B.

[SHOMan]

Can the folks who have emailed George at D* please share your responses from him? I am getting pretty impatient with the radio silence from the engineering department.

[SHOMan]

I've still got my contacts, one of which- for sure, can address this perhaps.
I say 'perhaps' because I have a feeling I already know what they're going to tell me.

I'll check back regularly if anyone has any questions or comments.

bpayne, any further news, and if not, when can you discuss this with D* again, I am not going to live with this problem without compensation. All of these folks getting the receiver for $350 from BB (even D* has matched that price!) and $250 credit plus free HBO, etc. If the thing were nearly free, I wouldn't have as much reason to complain.

[Lee Bombard]

Response from George?

I did not get a response from George...

[jeffl]

bpayne, any further news, and if not, when can you discuss this with D* again, I am not going to live with this problem without compensation. All of these folks getting the receiver for $350 from BB (even D* has matched that price!) and $250 credit plus free HBO, etc. If the thing were nearly free, I wouldn't have as much reason to complain.

Don't feel bad Shoman I paid 1K for this pos and lived with this problem for over 1 year. This is not the first time D* as ignored problems on an stb but they weren't 1k either.

[temp357]

I've only seen this problem during certain shows on nbc where it seems they are switching between the voice for the commercial to the regular programming. I noticed on my tv which is directly connected via HDMI as well as my receiver. I don't know why everyone seems to think this is a problem with the receiver.

[SHOMan]

I've only seen this problem during certain shows on nbc where it seems they are switching between the voice for the commercial to the regular programming. I noticed on my tv which is directly connected via HDMI as well as my receiver. I don't know why everyone seems to think this is a problem with the receiver.

If I hook up my R10 SD-tivo D* receiver, no popping or static when switching between PCM and DD audio. The HR-10-250 does it every time. Three HR-10-250s, all with the same exact behavior. Problem is not confined to NBC and there is plenty of proof that the receiver is doing something non-standard with the digital output, perhaps CPU related, perhaps garbage in the audio stream. It is pretty damn clear it is the receiver.

[SHOMan]

Don't feel bad Shoman I paid 1K for this pos and lived with this problem for over 1 year. This is not the first time D* as ignored problems on an stb but they weren't 1k either.

Thanks Jeff. I think they ignore it because they can't fix it with software and won't admit it. When I hear that sound EVERY DAY, it like having a computer that must be re-booted everytime you run a new program. It's in your face, and hard to overlook.

[bpayne]

No, I still haven't heard anything. I'm sorry if I led you to believe that I would immediately have resolution for you, but that is obviously not the case here. :o


I'm still working on it and as soon as I hear something new or different, I'll be on here to let you know.

[TomB]

Found an interesting thing this morning. Was watching NBC, and a show came on that I thought my wife would find interesting, so I paused the show. Took her about 6-7 minutes to come out see the show, and during that time I had multiple occurrences of the pop/silence behaviour. Very strange, and I am getting more and more annoyed with it.

Tom B.

[RBMD]

The response to me

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to report this issue. Hopefully no damage will occur by the time we find a resolution. I am looking forward to one.

Thank You for your patience,

George

On 6/30/05, Richard Boughn <boughn@wvi.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I just purchased a DTV unit HR10-250. I'm getting the loud static
> noise after completing FF to Play on recorded programs from OTA Dolby
> Digital sources Sometimes it happens when switching from a OTA pcm
> audio tract program when changing channels to a DD track station, but
> not always. It also shuts off the audio as many others have reported
> requiring an off-on reset or a change of inputs to reset of my Denon
> AVR 4802. My amp was not cheap (over $2000). I'm afraid it is going to
> blow my Def Tech speakers (over $5,000). My account number is
> 000---. Please add me to the list of people awaiting a fix.
>
> Help Appreciated,
>
> Richard Boughn

[TomB]

Can the folks who have emailed George at D* please share your responses from him? I am getting pretty impatient with the radio silence from the engineering department.

I got a response, which was:

-----Original Message-----
From: Georgi Zdravkov [mailto:zdravkov@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 7:00 AM
To: Tom Bauch
Subject: Re: HR10-250 sound problem?

Mr Bouch,

Thank you for reporting this issue. Thus far I have compiled a solid number of reports and am pushing on engineering to get this problem rectified. Yes, this e-mail will suffice.

Again, thank you.

Georgi
-------------------------------------

However, I have not heard from him since, and my last note to this email address bounced.... Anybody else heard from him lately? Did our noise on this issue get him canned?

[bpayne]

Great news.


One of the gentleman at DirecTV I wanted to address this issue to is sitting outside of my office as I type this. Needless to say, the sound issues discussed in this thread are on my docket of things to talk about this evening when we go out for dinner...

[SHOMan]

Great news.


One of the gentleman at DirecTV I wanted to address this issue to is sitting outside of my office as I type this. Needless to say, the sound issues discussed in this thread are on my docket of things to talk about this evening when we go out for dinner...

Very good news!

I hope you guys went to El Gaucho or something on par with them and had a great chat about things.

Anxious to hear how it went. Thanks again for your persistance on this.

[Lee Bombard]

Well bpayne? No news?

[temp357]

If I hook up my R10 SD-tivo D* receiver, no popping or static when switching between PCM and DD audio. The HR-10-250 does it every time. Three HR-10-250s, all with the same exact behavior. Problem is not confined to NBC and there is plenty of proof that the receiver is doing something non-standard with the digital output, perhaps CPU related, perhaps garbage in the audio stream. It is pretty damn clear it is the receiver.

Just goes to prove my point that this is not a problem with the receiver rather it is a problem with how the hr10-250 is handling the audio. I get the popping sounds on specific channels on my tv which is connected via hdmi. I don't think buying a newer receiver is going to solve this problem.

[SHOMan]

I think we are using the term receiver in different ways. The HR-10 is the receiver to d*, the audio gear is my "surround sound".

Hence the confusion.

[Lee Bombard]

bpayne...why so quiet?

[SHOMan]

Although someone reported that his last message to George at D* had bounced, I sent a message the other day, and did not get a bounce. However, I did not get a reply either, and George had been most prompt in the past.

At this point, it seems like we are dealing with some kind of CIA cover-up with respect to getting some kind of direct answer to our issue.

[TomB]

Hi, SHOman, I'm the one that reported my last email to Georgi bounced. I think I had a typo in his email (zdrakov instead of zdravkov)... Have resent it and will report if it does not bounce....

[HiHoStevo]

Just purchased and setup my HD-Tivo with a Denon 3805.

I have not (gratefully) experienced this popping with my 3805 yet, but I did run into something a bit weird. When doing the AV setup on the remote control I found a code that would allow the peanut remote to operate the volume up and down, but it will not turn the Denon on or off. I tried all of the codes listed, just in case and only the one (i think it was 1041) will operate the volume control, but not the on/off.

I have an older Denon (1901) in another room with a SD-Tivo and it works the volume and on/off just fine.

Any suggestions?

[tivoforum]

I have the same problem with an Onkyo reciever. Volume and mute work, but it can't switch on or off the reciever.

[SHOMan]

I heard from George at D* today. He says both he and his manager are being kept in the dark by engineering. He says he will let me know when he hears something.

So why is the engineering department so special that they don't have to even communicate in a timely manner with their companies support staff?

[SHOMan]

bpayne, can you please give us some feedback about your discussion with the D* rep you had dinner with? It would be greatly appreciated.

[jeffl]

I think we could add this to the complaint of the class action thread that was on here last week. It is simple with the problems we are having DD is not usable. I have my tivo set to pro logic so i don't do damage to my equipment. For $1k you would think that they would support this product more.

[TomB]

OK, dumb question.... Has anyone tried adding a ground wire to their setup? Have been thinking about it for a while, and wondering if there is any chance this could be a static discharge? Am out of town myself for a few days, so unable to test it myself, and was curious if anyone had any experience with trying to add some grounding....

[dcpoppy]

I don't think that would be of much help. They are pretty clearly passing a dirty signal out of their optical output that some high end AVR's don't like one bit.

Static discharge would need a conductor to travel along, fiber optics wouldn't fit that bill.

Maybe it will be fixed in 6.2? I'm sure that is what is delaying it's release... :rolleyes:

[SHOMan]

Great news.


One of the gentleman at DirecTV I wanted to address this issue to is sitting outside of my office as I type this. Needless to say, the sound issues discussed in this thread are on my docket of things to talk about this evening when we go out for dinner...

bpayne, can you *please* let us know if you got anywhere with DirecTV on our issue...

Thanks very much for your help thus far.

[TomB]

I don't think that would be of much help. They are pretty clearly passing a dirty signal out of their optical output that some high end AVR's don't like one bit.

Static discharge would need a conductor to travel along, fiber optics wouldn't fit that bill.

Maybe it will be fixed in 6.2? I'm sure that is what is delaying it's release... :rolleyes:


Yeah, I kinda thought that would be the case, too, until my wife demonstrated that occasionally turning the lights on and off in the room (on the same circuit) caused the 'silence' half of the 'pop/silence' problem I am having.... So I was thinking that perhaps it is some momentary load change that is affecting the optical processor? Or something? (displaying my EE ignorance, here)

Knowledgable engineers, please feel free to heap ridicule and abuse on the idea.... :)

[dcpoppy]

I'm not an EE either (but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express once) so no ridicule and/or abuse from me.

My guess is that you are getting noise on your 110 line from your light switch that is triggering your shutdown protection circuit in your receiver. Power line conditioner could help, although I generally think they are unnecessary. Could try a new light switch too.

None of that fixes the TiVo though.

[hackyack]

Has anyone updated their unit to the newer software and it solved the problem? My unit is 5 Days old and I have this problem. Between this and the SLOW Guide I'm Thinking I should stick with my 3 networked RePlayTV Units. Just wondering if I can justifiy the $ and Warranty to do the update instead of waiting on D*

[SHOMan]

HackyAck,

What are you using for audio gear? Please send a report to George at D* at the email listed earlier in this thread. For now, he is our best hope for getting an answer from engineering.

[hackyack]

HackyAck,

What are you using for audio gear? Please send a report to George at D* at the email listed earlier in this thread. For now, he is our best hope for getting an answer from engineering.

Do you have a Direct way to get a hold of George e-mail or phone # is fine. I don't see this problem so much from 5.1 to 2.0 like most but always from the now playing screen when I select a show to watch!

[SHOMan]

Do you have a Direct way to get a hold of George e-mail or phone # is fine. I don't see this problem so much from 5.1 to 2.0 like most but always from the now playing screen when I select a show to watch!

zdravkov@gmail.com

He will need your D* account number and the brand and model number of your receiver. I have the 47TX, and it has the same issue.

For now, remember to turn the volume down before playing back recorded DD material, and change inputs to something else and then back to the D* input to get back your DD sound. Or you can select analog input and you won't get the pop, but then you won't get the DD either.

George won't be able to do anything but add you to his growing list of specific customer complaints about this issue, but for now, it is the only path for resolution.

Don't hold your breath, and enjoy the HR-10 with the big ugly audio wart and all.

[SHOMan]

Well folks, it seems that George at D* is no longer able to help us as he is no longer at D*. I sent him an email asking for some kind of compensation is the abscence of any kind of acknowledgement from engineering after 10 weeks of waiting.

BPAYNE - Are you out there and can you PLEASE let us know the results of your conversation with D* rep. PM me if you can't post publicly...PLEASE.


Here is his George's reply:

=======================

It has been an honor working with you on this issue. In my bliss I am no longer employed with DirecTV. If you need the phone number to our corporate offices I can still provide you with that, you certainly have went through a lot. My apologies to everyone who was expecting a resolution.

Good luck,

Georgi

========================

[Lee Bombard]

Wow...Seems anyone that get's involved in trying to deal with this issue mysteriously vanishes.

Sorta' starting to sound like an X-Files episode. :)

[jeffl]

Actually, I think as a group we need to take action. Our money should be refunded at least partial. I paid 1K for this unit and haven't used DD in fear of my speakers blowing. I don't like paying so much $ for a product and then they not support their product. This is obviously a design flaw that can't be fixed by a simple download. They will and have dragged their feet on this and a few other issues related to tivo. I guess with the new technology coming they are not worried about us.

[SHOMan]

It gets a little better. I got another reply from George when I wrote back asking for the executive offices number as well as the name of his supervisor who was communicating with engineering on this issue. As a group, we need to start making calls to the office of the president, and heat things up a bit. By my count, George had compiled about 20 or so reports from folks here, in addition to the countless others who have posted to this thread. Obviously, we are not going to get this corrected, but we should get some compensation, particularly in light of the $299 HR-10 (what a slap in the fact to those who paid $700-$1000 just 8-10 weeks ago)

===== Begin message from George =====================

Me parting the company was not due to our correspondance and the HR10-250 issue, but still somehow relevant to it. DirecTV like most other companies is a very beaurocratic organization and does not employ flexible/feedback derived management. As far as I saw, there was complete disregard for the issue we were working on. That was just an example of how things operate there. Either way, the phone number to their Office of the President is 310-964-6598. Of course you will not be greeted by the president himself, but a group of specially trained agents. Still, they are located in El Segundo and should be able to assist you. If you have problems with them you might want to request to speak to Nicole there. I believe she fills the role of manager, but don't do it right off. Most of them are quite competent and should be able to help you out. My ex-manager's name is Dawna and her employee # is 10008755. She is in the Salt Lake City call center and her exact title is Resolution Manager. I personally believe you and every other HR10-250 customer with an A/V receiver deserves some serious compensation, but again, that's just my opinion, and right now it's of the same importance to DTV as it was when I was employed with them. :)

Thank you and good luck,

Georgi

====================================

[jeffl]

I am game for anything that we decide. Personally, I am sick of calling. We need to face the facts-this issue will not be resolved. They should be compensating us with a lot of credits over this issue. I thought for sure they would have fixed this issue long ago- thus my reason for not returning it. What can we/should we do at this point?

[SHOMan]

I will be calling the executive offices with a detailed timeline, and add that this issue has been known about and basically D* has lied and or blown off the evidence, and we have to assume that they aren't going to fix, so what are they willing to do with respect compensation in the way of programming credits.

[jeffl]

I have called at least five times with documentation. I have now given up hope that this issue will be fixed. Shoman update after your call. We need to demand credits.

[bfriend]

Just got mine today. Count me in with the rest of you for having this problem. I've got a Pio Elite 47TX receiver. They're going to send a replacement. I'm not holding my breath, as I doubt this is gonna fix it.

[SHOMan]

Just got mine today. Count me in with the rest of you for having this problem. I've got a Pio Elite 47TX receiver. They're going to send a replacement. I'm not holding my breath, as I doubt this is gonna fix it.

This is unbelievable. They are truly clueless. They know replacing the unit doesn't fix this problem, yet they send you one.

bfriend, I am sorry to say it will not fix your problem, and just waste more of your time, and make you more frustrated. I have the 47TX, and I have had two replacements, the second one they insisted that I try, and I did just to humor them. Then they got a field supervisor from Ironwood communications involved, and he and bpayne from Ironwood concur that the HR-10 has an inherent incompatibility with certain audio receivers, as is well documented here.

This is of course AFTER it has been escalated to engineering based on solid reports from nearly 20 posters here.

Despite all of the *solid* information they have documented about this issue, they continue to send out replacement units blindly. Not good for us, not good for them. Dumb as a freakin' post they are.

Speaking of posts, please keep us posted as to what they want to do next to get the problem corrected if you will please.

[bfriend]

Will Do. However, when this one doesn't work I'm going to send it back and demand to be released from my new 2yr commitment. The availability of this box as the new price was the only reason I committed to a new contract. The very fact that they are selling this thing with all it's inherent problems is criminal.

At this point the only way they'll be able to keep me as a subscriber is by some very liberal credits (like free Sunday Ticket)...

[bfriend]

Well, as expected the replacement does the same thing. Ugh. Looks like I'm going to be on the phone for a while...

[bfriend]

With an additional 100 dollar credit and free showtime for 6 months it brings the total cost down to -$33.

I can live with plain old PLII at that price.

[SHOMan]

After waiting three days for the executive offices to call back (they promise to call back the next business day when you leave a message), I decided to call customer retention and see what they might do for me.

This may be the only department where you can get any satisfaction with respect to our issue.

It is clear that D* is not going to fix the DD audio issue with the HR-10, and so compensation has become my focus. I am not a long time customer (May), so I was not too hopeful that retention would do anything for me because they know I am committed until next May.

After *calmly* explaining my issue, and mentioning my botched install, double and triple billing, and multiple instances of folks not getting back to me when promised, she promptly offered me $250 credit (at first she offered $200, then added $50), $20 off my TC Platinum for 6 months and $5 off my HD for six months. This amounts to $400, bringing the *net* price of my HR-10 to $299, and I am not committed for two years.

While I wish the thing would work properly, the credits do help ease the pain.

So, for the rest of you who are frustrated, you might look into calling customer retention and letting them know how you feel, and be nice about it. They will give you some compensation.

I am still going to leave another message for the manager of the executive offices, asking why they don't call back.

If you call retention, please post your experience here.

[SavageScott]

I have also been having this problem with my Arcam AVR 300. I spoke with about 7 people at D* yesterday and finally got to somebody that seemed interested in at least trying to identify the problem. (NOTE - He descibed himslef as a manager in the Issue Resolution Department and - surprise - he hadn't heard of the issue.) As luck would have it, he said he was having lunch with some people from engineering today and promised to address the issue with them and call me back. He called me tonight and said the guys in engineering knew exactly what he was talking about and, in fact, had already received a software patch from TiVO. Unfortunately, the software patch didn't work. He said TiVO is working on a new patch and while he couldn't commit to a fix date, he thought it would probably be a couple months.

Has anyone else had any correspondence with D* lately?

[Bugkillah]

Hello,

I found this forum while searching for answers about some questions I had for my HR10-250. I was worried that it would be obsolete in a few months when D* converted to mpeg 4. I think I figured out that initially only the new HD locals will be mpeg 4 (which the Augusta, GA area won't get any time soon), and that everything else will pretty much stay the same. (I'm able to receive OTA HD locals no problem.) I was also looking for the 30 second skip function, which I found instructions for here.

But then I came across this thread, and boy was I excited (except for it took me 3 hours to read the whole thread before posting.)

I've had many different D* receivers over the years, and my last 3 have had digital audio. It all began with one of the original HD D* receivers, the RCA DT 100 (I think that's the model #). And the first night I had it set up, I realized the popping/clicking/crackling noise when going from a channel with PCM audio to an AC3 channel (such as Dolby Digital). I have an inexpensive RCA 5.1 audio receiver, using the fiber optic audio cable.

My second receiver with digital audio was a regular DirecTivo (30 minute model). Same results first night out. Popping and crackling when switching to a Dolby Digital AC3 channel from a regular PCM channel.

My third receiver is the new HR10-250. And, "third verse, same as the first".

I'm not sure if it's definitely Tivo's/Directv's fault, and I'm not sure if it's the audio receiver's fault. I think that it's really just an incompatibility issue. The problem could be fixed from either end. The video receiver could do a better job of switching from PCM to AC3 to let the audio receiver know that it is changing the signal type. The audio receiver could do a better job of recognizing that the audio signal has changed, and auto mute these types of excessively loud sounds.

note: When an audio receiver is decoding PCM (streaming uncompressed audio) and then the audio source changes midstream to a compressed audio format (such as AC3 Dolby Digital), the audio receiver initially tries to continue to decode the new AC3 stream as PCM, not recognizing that it changed, hence the cracking sound. Then a split second later, the audio receiver recognizes the stream as AC3 and changes the decoding program, but a hair too late. The stream of data comes into the audio receiver in small packets, and the first few bytes of the packet tell the audio receiver what type of stream it is (PCM vs. AC3). If the video receiver changes the stream to AC3 mid packet, the audio receiver didn't get the first few bytes of the packet to let it know that it's now AC3.

Since the beginning of my cracking/popping sound problems, I've always gotten around it by muting the audio receiver just before changing to a Dolby Digital channel, and as soon as the "auto detect" message starts to flash on the audio receiver, I can un-mute it. I programmed the HDirecTivo remote to control the audio receiver just for this reason.

In closing, I guess with me and others having this problem with a spectrum of combinations of video receivers (both Directv, tivo, and HD tivo, comcast, and others) and audio receivers (Denon, Harmon Kardon, my RCA, Pioneer, etc.), this really seems like just a simple incompatibility issue, not so much any one manufacturer's fault. I don't think that when all this technology came about that it was imagined that an audio signal source would change back and forth from PCM to AC3, as opposed to staying one type of source.

If Directv/Tivo is able to come up with an update to fix this problem, then great. If not, I'll wear out that damn mute button.

Happy Tivo-ing!

[SHOMan]

After contacting the office of the president, I actually had a D* engineer give me a call on the phone, and we discussed the issue for about 30 minutes. He had not heard of the problem, so I reproduced the problem over the phone and he said he had never heard that type of sound before. He did admit that they knew there were some audio issues related to certain audio gear, but they were not working on any fix. He specifically stated that the next update for the HR-10 would not include any audio fixes.

That said, he stated that any fix for the problem would have to come from the manufacturer of the HR-10, in this case TIVO. He said that he would call Tivo engineering and see if he could get them to address the problem. He also told me that he would get back to me, but never did.

It sounds like maybe they have been working with Tivo on this issue, but I am not holding my breath.

With respect to whether this is an issue of compatibility rather than a flaw, I would point out that my R-10 Tivo has no problem changing from PCM to DD with the same audio gear. I would also point out that my E* 922 receiver never had any problem either. IMHO, it is a BUG, not a compatibility issue.

Yes, I can do a number of things to work around the problem, but given that all of my other equipment is working fine switching between PCM and DD (DVD Players will do this type of switch with music DVDs that have PCM tracks), I am still of the mindset that the HR-10 is primarily responsible for this noise.

I will be contacting the office of the president again to inquire as to why the engineer did not follow-up. I will post any additional information I receive.