NTL Samsung Box - IR control [Text View]

Pete_h

06-22-2004, 05:19 PM

Hi all,
Have just had NTL installed and have got a nice shiny silver Samsung set top box. Having abit of trouble with the Tivo IR control of it though.
Tivoportal suggests Pace4000 codes (I'm in an ex C&W area) with Enter set to ON.
20043, 20025, 20023 and 20020 all had trouble with three digit channel numbers where the second and third numbers are the same. Only one of the numbers seemed to take effect. eg.922 becomes 92.
In the end I found that 20042 Medium seemed to work. Although now I'm suffering bad changes when Tivo is changing channel to record something, so I'm sure it's not quite right.

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Pete.

GarySargent

06-23-2004, 10:02 AM

Did you retry the other codes suggested at TiVoPortal with a slower speed (to see if this cures 3 digit channels with the same consecutive digits)?

Pete_h

06-23-2004, 01:14 PM

Hi Gary,
The slow options result in the set-top box changing channel too early. ie. it changes to the first digit before the others have been output by Tivo.

For the medium speeds where I get the consecutive digit problem, it almost seems to me as though the third digit doesn't get sent at all - a light on the box flashes when it receives an IR command. For consecutive digit channels it flashes for the first 2 digits, then there's a short pause (expecting 3rd digit to be sent) and then there's a flash for the enter command. For other channels, there's the correct number of flashes.

Thanks,

Pete.

blokedownthepub

06-23-2004, 05:11 PM

The Samsung box uses the same remote as the Langley 4001 and 4010 boxes, have you tried the codes recomended for the Langley boxes?

Pete_h

06-24-2004, 08:29 AM

Yes - the 20042 Medium code I have been using is the one for the Langley Pace boxes. It works fine when doing manual channel changes (or 99% of the time anyway).

It seems to be when Tivo does a channel change that it becomes less reliable. I'm using the IR wand and not the front blaster.

I'll try a restart of both Tivo and set-top box. I'll also try positioning the IR wand slightly differently. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Pete.

GarySargent

08-03-2004, 07:16 PM

Code 20045 will be available under the SAMSUNG brand in Wed mornings download. This should provide better compatibility for SAMSUNG boxes with the new NTL software (blue rather than pink menus).

masher

08-06-2004, 02:40 AM

I've just tried the new code, but with little joy, I'm afraid. I tried all three speeds, I tried using one wand then both, I've positioned them all over the front display to find optimum position, I tried rebooting the stb. It's very flaky. Sometimes the code goes through fine, sometimes just a digit or two and sometimes nothing at all. Could it be my stb? Works fine with the standard ntl remote.

GarySargent

08-06-2004, 03:30 AM

Is the box model SMT-2100C?

I have one here in front of me and the codes work fine in my region.

GarySargent

08-06-2004, 04:53 AM

Ooops forgot - you need to have the channel bar mini guide turned OFF or these codes won't work ;)

masher

08-06-2004, 05:04 AM

Oops, I'd like to retract my last reply. Further investigation did indeed show that the mini guide was causing a problem. A quick play without it has been promising, with 20045 medium seeming to work very well.

Further playing/testing later.
I'll let you know if I find anything.

Nice one, Gary
Thanks

occitan

08-06-2004, 02:51 PM

You might consider installing irblast, which has a second try at changing the channel. You only need access through the serial port to install.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1836262

It'll need a minor modif to include your box id, but otherwise should work fine.

NikBedwell

08-14-2004, 06:39 PM

jamesf

04-16-2006, 06:15 PM

This is worth putting on an FAQ of some sort because it's a recurrent problem for NTL users. Just followed the advice of going for 20045 on medium with the mini guide turned off (both times!) and it works perfectly. Apologies if it's already on there; just saw some threads on the main forum that are older than this and have exactly the same problem.

Fozzie

04-16-2006, 06:41 PM

Welcome to the forum jamesf :)

Well dug up - an almost 2 year old thread! A more recent discussion is here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3330288&&#post3330288

I agree though, it may be worth Gary updating the FAQ as the Samsung SMT-2100C is the only box not listed.

lord_anubis

04-30-2006, 02:24 PM

Hi All,

Just rejoined Community after time away -
Had problems with a New Samsung SetTop Box And because of the good advice as usual :) sorted on 20045 and mini guide 'OFF' That made all the difference.

Thanks All! :up:

Fozzie

04-30-2006, 02:33 PM

Welcome back :) Unfortunately I'll be leaving shortly; May 24th - Sky HD installation. Hope I'm not disappointed!

Furball

05-17-2006, 03:09 PM

Cheers guys , just had my old NTL Pace box that decided it was going to be a brick rather than STB and after the second pace box the engineer tried failed to play ball he dug out a samsung !!!! wow what a difference , the interactive almost works and the TV on demand works as well !!!!!

Thanks for the tip regarding the dongle , nearly forgot about that.

BTW I'm still running with the mini guide and no probs changing...........so far ?

Fur

webmuppet

06-08-2006, 10:52 AM

Please don't make the same mistake I did when NTL replaced my Pace 4000 STB with a Samsung SMT-2100C - which was to leave the IR dongle in place, meaning that TiVo didn't work at all changing channels!

Spent ages trying all the code combinations, then realised the dongle was in place! Unplugged it, tried the 20045 codes and all was ok...

So how do I go about selling my old dongle? There must be a worthy TiVo out there somewhere in need?

TIA

How do you change channels without the IR dongle? With the blaster? I had a Samsung box installed this morning before work. I didnt have time to do much testing but a quick arse with the IR codes wouldnt make Tivo change channels.

Fozzie

06-08-2006, 03:07 PM

Don't confuse dongle with wands; they're different things!

Major dude

07-06-2006, 08:29 AM

I have now had a new samsung NTL cable box for a month now and the channel changing continues to be unreliable :( .

I have used all obvious setups with both using frontblaster and wands, one leading zero, fast medium slow 200045 and none has proved as rock solid as my other box a daewoo or my old Pace 1000 NTL box with the dongle. When you test it it seems to behave but in practice you find one two or three number changes have failed resulting in a record failure. It certainely makes you realise how important rock solid channel changing is.

Any suggestions?

Furball

07-06-2006, 09:38 AM

SkiBore

09-12-2006, 06:45 PM

Just been upgraded from analog and have the same problem.

Sorry to be slow but how do I turn turn off the channel bar mini guide ?

webmuppet

09-13-2006, 03:51 AM

Yep had the same issue here :-(

Opinion seems to be to fit a time clock to power cycle the box , keep meaning to do mine :rolleyes: But I tend to just pull the plug when I go to bed and give it a restart or if its recording then do it the next day. It seems to be fine if you power cycle it for a couple of days ......then it starts to miss channels and after a week all hell breaks loose.

Try the time clock method ;)

Fur

This really does suck big time. Anyone any experience of getting NTL to change to a different box, or do they even have another model of box they can give you? I had NTL swap my good old reliable Pace for a Samsung because I thought it would improve the picture on my LCD. Pictures just the same but now I have the channel changing prob. Doh!

turveysp

09-15-2006, 03:28 PM

I've recently had my trusty blue Pace unit replaced with the Samsung one and have found and followed the instructions in this thread regarding different codes and the mini-guide disabling. I settled on 20045 Medium as the best of the (bad) bunch but I'm missing shows daily through failed changes.

It seems that rather than begging NTL for an older box, Tivo should be dealing with this problem. I still pay them a tenner a month after all.

If anyone has any new tips I'd love to hear them.

ray951

09-15-2006, 05:16 PM

Yes I am having the same problem with the Samsung box on 20045 medium also tried slow and fast but they didn't work either.

Haven't had the box long but it seems to have got worse since all the channels were renumbered, prior to that never had a problem.

When going through the setup pressing the channel up/down button everything is fine but in actual use keep losing recordings. All mini-guides etc have been turned off as stated in this thread.

Anyone any suggestions?

turveysp

09-21-2006, 10:38 AM

I took out the flying IR leads and switched to using the front IR blaster. The Samsung seems to be changing quite nicely now on 20045 Fast with the miniguide switched off.

Let's see if it stays well behaved.

dwaine

09-25-2006, 01:11 PM

I thought I was going mad! Will try these steps now. At first I was well chuffed with my new NTL box - so much quicker than the previous Pace one. Until I realised that Samsung and TiVo weren't a marriage made in heaven!

:D

turveysp

09-27-2006, 03:58 PM

Stupid, stupid Samsung box. Honestly, how hard can it be to reproduce a set of IR signals. It still screws up the occasional change. Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

NH001

09-28-2006, 06:36 AM

Always had the same problem and suspect will be worse now worth the 3 digit channels on NTL. I have just started to reboot nightly to see if that will help and have right STB settings.

I saw another post to say that where the IR blaster is positioned can make a difference that makes sense. I'm not sure where the IR receiver is on the Samsumg STB but I have it in the middle (between the card and LCD display). I'm not sure if it should be on the far left. Any thoughts?

Also, I get confused between dongles, IR blaster and other methods of changing channels. Is there a guide anywhere?

childe

09-28-2006, 10:59 AM

I am soon moving house but intend to remain an ntl customer. From this thread it seems I should try to keep my current Pace 1000 box rather than allow it to be replaced with a Samsung. Am I right? Do you think they will let me?

Channel changes with my Pace 1000 are about 95% OK, but some channels suffer more than others - let's see what happens now all the channel numbers have changed...

Furball

09-28-2006, 11:54 AM

Tricky one !!! the samsung box is way better and faster than the old pace thing but for myself and since the new numbering its becoming a nightmere fast :-(

Fur

ozsat

09-29-2006, 09:12 AM

Some feedback from NTL about this:

Can those with Samsung boxes, check that the miniguide is off?

Also the IR receiver is just to the right of, and slightly higher than, the 4-digit display.

Please post back an update.

ColinYounger

09-29-2006, 11:00 AM

4 digit display?! My Samsung only has 3. I've tried various positions, and none are reliable yet.

(quietly lurking with the same problems as everyone else)

Soprano

09-29-2006, 11:20 AM

GarySargent

09-29-2006, 11:47 AM

My Samsung box seems to change reliably when you test it (channel up and channel down), but then when the TiVo tries to change it unawares it invariably misses the first digit.

Hence why I suggested in the other thread testing recordings at various times rather than on the hour, or exactly when a programme starts. If those work maybe delaying sending the IR by a couple of secs would cure this issue.

ozsat

09-29-2006, 11:50 AM

4 digit display?! My Samsung only has 3. I've tried various positions, and none are reliable yet.

(quietly lurking with the same problems as everyone else)I thought my Pace was only 3 digit - but when switching to VoD it has for digits.

ozsat

09-29-2006, 11:53 AM

At certain times the traffic to/from the stb gets heavy and it then cause IR delays.

This can often be seen in the early hours of the morning.

It could be that updates on the change of data in the EPG is causing the IR delay.

Ensure that the mini-guide is off and try padding a minute before recordings.

julia0001

09-30-2006, 08:35 AM

My Samsung box seems to change reliably when you test it (channel up and channel down), but then when the TiVo tries to change it unawares it invariably misses the first digit.

Prior to the three digit channel numbers I had put leading zeros in front of the channel number which allowed the old two digit and one digit channel numbers to be resolved correctly irrespective of missing the first digit. Now however, I've had minimal success.

My next theory is to set the programme I want to TiVo on the Samsung as a reminder to get it to change itself. Hopefully I might be able to record the programme I want!

This is exactly what I'm getting. Seems to happen mainly when the STB has been 'idle' (i.e. no channel changes) for a while. Second and third attempts seem to be pretty reliable - but not much use when TiVo is in control!

I think I remember a problem when the Pace STB first went to the pink menus, there was some kind of memory leak that screwed things up. Eventually a firmware update on the STB made it go away. I wonder if we have a similar problem here...

In the meantime, could some lovely person at TiVo write us an alternate code that sends a dummy IR digit (there must be *some* button the STB will recognise without actually doing anything) in front of the channel code? I have a hunch that might just work around it... and I'm happy to be a guinea pig :)

- Julia

skev303

09-30-2006, 04:49 PM

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the world of Tivo.

Bought a unit from eby, set it up, got the account activated & the box updated and ran the setup routine.

I'm on NTL with the Samsung 2100c STB.

Basicaly i've tried the reccomended codes & the pace codes & every permatation of 0's to be added & click enter to confirm but my Tivo just wont change the STB's channels :(

I rang Tivo support and spoke to an arsey support guy who basically said i must have a faulty unit...great!

If i use the irblasters the stb does flash, without them it doesnt.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

SkiBore

09-30-2006, 08:31 PM

There are a few posts around the web about Win XP MCE problems with the 2100C.
http://www.windowsforum.com/archive/topic.php/t-1852676-1.html for example
This reply from MS seems to be saying it's a timing problem
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/896480/en-us
No answers, just thought I'd share. :(

skev303

10-01-2006, 04:05 AM

Thanks Ski Bore

I'm not using MCE but the more i dig around the more it looks like Tivo aint gonna work with this Samsung box :(

Can anyone ou the post thier controller settings for this STB please?

Thanks again

Pine Cladding

10-01-2006, 07:31 AM

I have always had a problem with my TiVo not being able to control the Samsung box. As others, the ability to change channels diminished over a period of days.

I bought a timer switch and set it to reboot the STB every morning at 3 am, this helped a lot and reduced the number of missed recordings due to incorrect channel changes. But then NTL decided to change the channels to 3 digits and my TiVo refused to work with the Samsung at all.

After reading many posts and suggestions, I took a strong torch and found the location of the IR receiver in the Samsung's front panel, it's a small opening to the upper left of the digit LEDs. I then placed one of the TiVo's IR wands directly above the opening and the second wand directly below - Hey presto! 100% changes every time :) Obviously the positioning of the wands appears (in my case) to be critical. I still use the timer switch as I have have not had time to check operations without it.

Hope this helps

skev303

10-01-2006, 08:30 AM

Pine cladding,

Could you post your set top box control settings please?

And did you disable the miniguide on ntl?

Thanks!

Pine Cladding

10-01-2006, 01:11 PM

Pine cladding,

Could you post your set top box control settings please?

And did you disable the miniguide on ntl?

Thanks!

No leading zeros
Do not use enter
Do not use front IR Blaster
Code 20045 Fast

Good luck

skev303

10-01-2006, 03:37 PM

Thanks for the settings PC?

It's weird, the settings almost work. The channel selector goes up & down ok but doesnt actually select the channel.

Anyone had this before? Could my IR wands be faulty?

Thanks again for any info people.

Major dude

10-02-2006, 12:29 PM

I then placed one of the TiVo's IR wands directly above the opening and the second wand directly below - Hey presto! 100% changes every time :) Obviously the positioning of the wands appears (in my case) to be critical. I still use the timer switch as I have have not had time to check operations without it.

Hope this helps

This seems to have done the trick so far although I use a leading zero with 20045 Fast.

Major dude

10-03-2006, 04:28 AM

:( Having said that the first change done this morning via epg did not work properly, only two of the three digits were recognised. So any work that can be done to improve this would be appreciated.

SkiBore

10-03-2006, 07:04 AM

I tried both IR wands side by side on top of the box pointing down, above and to the right of the RH edge of the card, this actually succeeded in recording 'Life on Mars' last night on Bravo (137).
No leading zeros
Do not use enter
Do not use front IR Blaster
Code 20045 Slow

dickp

10-03-2006, 08:51 AM

I have recently been "upgraded" to the SMT-2110C STB, having previously had the analogue Pace unit for nearly 10 years. For the first week or so (this was a day or two after the channel renumbering) channel changes worked reliably, but since then have failed for about 75% of attempts.

Following advice on this thread and elsewhere I've been fiddling with the exact position of the IR wands, and have just about found what seems to be a working arrangement. I put the wand under the STB, about an inch in front and just to the right of the IR window. I've also leant a business card against the front as a sort of IR tent (I don't want to completely obscure it due to the outside chance I might want to use the digital teletext features.) Since Friday I've had just one failed change, in the early hours of this morning.

While I was working on this, I noticed that power cycling the STB didn't make much difference; test channel changes were considerably more reliable than automatic ones, but not 100%; if there was a pause of a few minutes before changing the channel, it was more likely to fail than if I'd previously changed channels within seconds; it was not necessarily the first IR digit that was missed, it could be any of the three; when a digit was missed, the "activity" LED did not flash at all.

My STB control configuration is:

Two leading zeros
Don't send enter
Don't use front blaster
Code 20045 Medium
STB miniguide is off

skev303

10-07-2006, 06:54 AM

Ok got an update, the Tivo started to change channels properly.

I had 1 ir wand under the stb & had it sticking out about an inch.

Sweet i thought! It worked for about 3 days & then it started playing up again.

I reset the stb and its still not communicating properly, dont know what to make of it all really, i wish NTL would start their pvr roll out quicker!

dickp

10-07-2006, 03:27 PM

Mine is still not 100% reliable at changing the channel, I'd estimate about 80%. Enough to be really irritating when you think you've finally positioned the wands just right :(

julia0001

10-16-2006, 10:21 AM

turveysp

10-16-2006, 11:12 AM

In the meantime, I broke and bought a cheapy timer switch from Wilko - £3.99. That seems to have upped the reliability considerably but I'd prefer a more stable solution. The Samsung now powers off between 0300 and 0315.

dickp

10-16-2006, 11:39 AM

I've also invested in a timer switch.

Now using both IR wands, one above the STB overhanging by about half an inch, the other below about an inch and a half in front of the IR window. This has been the most reliable setup so far...

Furball

10-16-2006, 11:39 AM

I have a theory.

I've watched this for a while now and I'm fairly certain that on my Samsung box, >90% of the misses are the first digit. The indicator lights up on the STB to show it's received a digit, but it seems it's ignored. So if, for example, I send it 104, the little green light goes
flash - flash - flash
but the digit display goes
(nothing) - 0 - 4.

I also played about a bit and found out that the # button on the NTL remote doesn't do anything in this context, but it does make the little indicator light flash, so it seems that it is received.

So... if we could have a code where a # is sent before every three-digit combination, I think there's a chance that just might work.

If any of the nice TiVo people are reading this, if they could do a code like that to test then I'd be more than happy to try it out and provide feedback :)

Thanks!

Julia

Yep thats exactly what mine does when it misses , the box seems to register the IR input but looks like it dosnt reconise the comand and hence no digit.

Your idea of a code where it sends a # before every channel change just might work BUT it still dosnt explain why rebooting the box causes everything to appear to be fine again for a while.
I know some people have said its some sort of memory leak but I'm not convinced as if this was the case then surely the samsung remote would fail as well, but even when ( after a few days ) TiVo flatly refuses to change the box if you grab the samsung remote it changes fine :confused:

Currenlty mine is about 65-85% reliable which to be honest is pants. #

Adding extra padding so it dosnt actually change on the hour starts to cause major problems with it then refusing to record the next program :(

Fur

AMc

10-16-2006, 03:21 PM

Unless something has changed recently all UK cable remotes all use IRdA which is not generally used for remote control - that means universal and learning remotes can't control the cable boxes and video senders won't change channel. If the cable remote is NTL or Telewest branded this is almost certainly the case as it will work with all the older Pace boxes which didn't accept "normal" IR commands at all.

Tivo is sending regular IR which is half heartedly implemented on the later cable boxes (Pace 4000, Scientific Atlanta and Samsung) running NTL and TW firmware. It's not that surprising that the official remote works better than Tivo - there are no official NTL or Telewest remotes that send IR so the code is not going to be tested or supported properly.

When I first got cable and Tivo together I got a Pace 4000 which (sort of) supported IR commands. On the day Tivo arrived a TW code update broke IR control so I had to buy a dongle (and wait a week). TW took several months to release a 'fixed' software that reenabled IR support on the 4000 series boxes.

In my humble opinion the timer is the only pragmatic solution - if you buy a digital timer you can set the 'down time' to a single minute. If you do that at the end of the hour around 5am you are more likely to blitz the credits or adverts on an early morning suggestion and keep the actual programme content. I would avoid using the clockwork ones as they only do rough 15 minute increments, lose time and they squeak after a while too :)

julia0001

10-26-2006, 05:32 PM

OK, for the sake of my sanity I just went out and bought a timer, will see how that goes.

HOWEVER, I had a bit of a breakthrough after talking to the TiVo (BSkyB) guys. They suggested trying some of the PACE codes, and I found the following settings to nearly work (will explain further in a sec).

PACE 20025 Medium, No Zeros, Yes to Enter, No IR Blaster AND miniguide set to 3 seconds.

This changes channel really nicely... except anything with a repeated digit, e.g. 110, 122, etc. where all you get is 10, 12, etc. Fast/slow/medium makes no difference. The reason you have to have miniguide set to On is the Enter (which apparently you need) seems to bring up the guide bar, and if you have it set to Off on the set top box it just stays on screen indefinitely. The other slightly weird thing is that it seems to send extra 'right arrow' presses between each digit which you can see by the way the miniguide jumps about. BUT it sort of works.

So, if the lovely TiVo people (pleeeeeease?) can give us a code that works like 20025 but somehow fixes the double-digit problem then it looks like we might be sorted!

Meanwhile I have a timer and will see how Samsung 20045 behaves with the nightly restart, and I saw some other nice gadgets while I was looking at Maplins' website so I'm not feeling too bitter.

BTW thanks AMc for the post about IrDA... I had a Pace 4000 and I remember only too well the version with the memory leak, and this does indeed seem very similar. At least the Samsung works with my Harmony remote which was more than I could ever get the Pace to do, and at least going back to the Samsung remote doesn't cause instant meltdown when it tries a 'normal' IR channel change :)

GarySargent

10-28-2006, 06:09 AM

The extra right arrow is supposed to be there. It is because each alternate digit sent the box is expecting one of the bits in the code to be toggled. Since TiVo can't do that, instead it sends two IR codes for each digit, the right arrow, then the digit. That way the box is always expecting the same toggle bit to be received on each next digit.

SkiBore

12-05-2006, 07:31 PM

PACE 20025 Medium, No Zeros, Yes to Enter, No IR Blaster AND miniguide set to 3 seconds.I'd given up completely and was using the samsung reminder system to change channel . . . This works a treat ! Thanks.

So far recording from a plus1 channel has avoided the double digit problem.

Pete77

12-06-2006, 04:16 AM

Tivo is sending regular IR which is half heartedly implemented on the later cable boxes (Pace 4000, Scientific Atlanta and Samsung) running NTL and TW firmware. It's not that surprising that the official remote works better than Tivo - there are no official NTL or Telewest remotes that send IR so the code is not going to be tested or supported properly.

So isn't the solution for all you NTL cable guys then to splash out the £20 or so with Tivo customer services on the IRDA converter intended for the early Pace NTL boxes, even if you have a later NTL box model?

Then you will be sending the signal format to the box that it is much better able to understand than normal IR?

I have a Sky Panasonic TUCT20 Digibox and the code sending reliability is about 98% - very rarely a first digit is lost. However I did lose a recording last night due to the "No Satellite Signal Is Being Received" glitch than can periodically be experienced by these Panasonic Sky boxes. Generally though that is avoided by my Sky box also powering off at 5.25am every moring on a timer for 2 minutes as normally the No Satellite Signal Is Being Received problem only occurs after the box has been on for a few days.

I must buy a more reliable Sky Digibox that doesn't have the No Satellite Signal is Being Receive glitch issue. Pace 2600C1 or Pace DS430N appear to be the best choices?

AMc

12-06-2006, 09:27 AM

Unfortunately the cable networks are made of a collection of disparate networks installed and upgraded sporadically over 15 years or so. Even a Pace 1000 on Telewest in two different parts of London will behave differently.
I bought a cable adapter back in the day as the £20 was less important than the irritation of a missed recording YMMV.

I'm on Freeview now in a very marginal area so I have new problems!

Pete77

12-06-2006, 09:56 AM

I'm on Freeview now in a very marginal area so I have new problems!

If you can put up your own dish I would suggest you are better off taking a 1 year minimum contract from Sky via www.quidco.co.uk and getting the £50 commission the woudl normally pay to Comet or Currys for selling another of their boxes/contracts and installtion to customers.

The last time I checked the minimum 2 Mixes is £15 per month with the first 3 months at half price. So £157.50 then take off the Quidco cashback of £50 leaving you with a cost of £107.50 (there is a £10 per annum quidco membership fee but well worth it considering all the products including insurance policies you can get big cashback with). You then have a Sky box and satellite dish you own at the end of Year 1 and can desubscribe. At that point you can always subscribe again for the odd month for programs you especially want to see.

Its a much better bet than www.freesatfromsky.co.uk who will charge you £150 for the box and install and then if you ever want to watch a single pay Sky channel after you have had the box for 12 months will say you must sign a further 12 months minimum contract to at least 2 Sky Mixes (i.e £157.50) to be allowed to become a subscriber. :eek:

Of course I agree £107.50 is more than a Freeview box but then there are several additional free movies channels on Sky (Horror Channel, True Movies 1 and 2, Movies4Men 1 and 2) and various other channels like Reality Tv, CNN, Euronews Wine Channel, Golf Channel, Property channel that are not on Freeview. Yes I know E4 and More 4 aren't currently free on Sky but I think you will find they will be within the next 12 months or so.

And what price a reliable signal that you can count on not to fade away in fog or during a spell of high pressure in the summer. :eek:

blindlemon

12-06-2006, 10:31 AM

Ahh, but at least freeview doesn't break up in a thunderstorm or heavy rain ;)

AMc

12-06-2006, 10:48 AM

No, mine breaks up in a stiff wind :(. To get a decent signal I need an extra high gain aerial with masthead amplifier. Of course when it blows a gale the aerial moves in and out the 10 degree active area of reception so it breaks up. What I need is someone to turn up the gain from 5 to 10KW on the mast serving 1/2 of East Anglia http://www.ukfree.tv/txdetail.php?a=TM131958

Pete77 we've been in this conversation before my friend no E4 is a deal breaker at the moment but thanks for the advice :)

I feel we've wandered enough - back to cable talk please :D

Pete77

12-06-2006, 10:50 AM

Ahh, but at least freeview doesn't break up in a thunderstorm or heavy rain ;)

That largely depends on whether the Sky dish has an obstucted line of site in the first place and so the extra obstruction form the rain tips it over the edge.

My sister lives in a Grade II listed house with the Sky dish installed outside on the ground and with some trees and bushes not far away that had grown considerably since she moved there. She has an old Amstrad DRX 100 box too and the dish is from day one of Sky Digital as well. As you suggest when it rained with any strength at her house there was no Sky picture, a situation that she as a non technically minded had incredibly come to accept but that I found absurd.

So when visiting in the summer and after she had gone out to work on a Sunday (she works anti social shift hours for a national newspaper) I persuade my brother in law to set to work with me pruning the bushes and taking a branch or two off the trees near by. When my sister got up the next day she was initially furious about the pruning of her prized shrubs etc (they are all enormous and cutting them back in fact does them a favour) but on checking with her since she has confirmed no more breakups/loss of Sky picture during rain.

If you live in a marginal Freeview area like this one then all you can do is put up the best aerial and after that its down to things like atmospheric pressure and fog which knock out the weakest Mux (SDN) at the drop of a hat and the two National Grid Wireless Muxes (Sky channels + UK History, The Hits, TMF, FTN, UK Bright Ideas etc) not long thereafter. And there is nothing you can do about it. In any area Sky signal can always be made robust with adequate line of site, large enough disk and best Digibox for a poor signal. If you have a weak Freeview signal then you will have to wait for Digital Switchover to come round.

Pete77

12-06-2006, 10:55 AM

Pete77 we've been in this conversation before my friend no E4 is a deal breaker at the moment but thanks for the advice :)

Whereas I could live without E4 (although having no More4 would be more annoying as that does actually contain programs that stimulate the grey matter) but wouldn't want to be without CNN, Euronews, Reality Tv, Horror Channel, TrueMovies etc that I would lose over on Freeview.

The best bet is to have both Sky and Freeview like I do with my Tivo box. ;)

I then have considerable resilience and legacy options in the event that either source method suddenly lets me down.

Twice now the management company here has agreed to upgrade our communal aerial and then found ways to weasle out of it claiming we will have an adequate signal on Freeview in 2012 and we have the Sky feed anyway so there's no need. So sometimes I have free E4 and More4 and sometimes I don't.