Sony KP-61HS10 and HDTivo Problem

[Jaboo]

I've had the same problem in the past with other receivers. I had bought the Toshiba DST-3000 (I think) a couple of years ago when it first came out. Basically on 1080i displays with bright screens, the video TV would cut out and try to change displays, like it lost the signal. Well now that I've hooked it up to the new HD Tivo, it does this at all resolutions. Anyone experiencing this? I'm almost certain it's the TV. All Sony equipement works just fine while plugged into Video 5, but nothing else does.

I did dig thru forums back then and supposidly there was a fix. The TV was still under warranty at that point, they sent a tech out and my TV already had the new part, he replaced it anyway, but it didn't fix the issue.

Any ideas? Looks like I'll be taking this back to the Circuit City in Cedar Hill TX if anyone wants it.....

[david(dallas)]

Sorry to here you problem from a Fellow Dallas area HD fan. I have the Sony GWII 50" and I haven't had that issue. When you change from 480p and 1080i while checking out PQ, it seems to take a couple of seconds to switch. But I think that is normally. When I do this on a frozen picture, then press play, the screen goes snowy for a couple of seconds, then kicks in.

I don't think that is what you are talking about though..

David in Plano

[litzdog911]

My Sony KV-40XBR800 seems to work fine with my receiver. It's able to synch quickly to any of the HR10-250's resolution formats.

I agree it sounds like an issue with your Sony. Since they tried to fix it under warranty and couldn't, perhaps you can raise the issue again with Sony Support and insist they make it right.

[ANSEK]

Originally posted by Jaboo
I've had the same problem in the past with other receivers. I had bought the Toshiba DST-3000 (I think) a couple of years ago when it first came out. Basically on 1080i displays with bright screens, the video TV would cut out and try to change displays, like it lost the signal. Well now that I've hooked it up to the new HD Tivo, it does this at all resolutions. Anyone experiencing this? I'm almost certain it's the TV. All Sony equipment works just fine while plugged into Video 5, but nothing else does.

I did dig thru forums back then and supposidly there was a fix. The TV was still under warranty at that point, they sent a tech out and my TV already had the new part, he replaced it anyway, but it didn't fix the issue.

Any ideas? Looks like I'll be taking this back to the Circuit City in Cedar Hill TX if anyone wants it.....

I have the same TV and the same problem. The only difference I had it fixed when I bought my HD200. It work fine until I got the HD TiVo. I believe the TV is the main culprit but the HD TiVo is exacerbating the issue.

[kevinkrohn]

This is DEFINITELY your TV. I have the same set and had the same "flashing" problem. It is a known problem with the set and Sony needs to fix it. I fought long and hard with them to get mine fixed and paid for. It was out of warranty but obviously a problem that was with the set from day 1. The service bulletin is No. 442R3. If they give you any BS (which they will), don't give up. They need to replace the "A" board. It will be about $600-800 if they don't cover it. Best of luck. It was a nightmare for me. They originally tried to do some other fix on the circuit board by taking my set apart and into the shop. NO DICE. They had my set for weeks. The A Board fix can be done by you and in minutes. Here is the number to the service tech. who I talked to, John: 239-768-7600x6719.
He will know about it. You likely will have to call another number first however to get a service ticket number. Again, best of luck!

[pinballfan]

Oh *#$%#$!

Just hooked mine up today and I guess my Sony KP-57XBR10W has the same issue. When the scene changes it often drops its lock on the signal. Seems to be most prevelant during commercials, but happens during movies etc as well.

Anyone else have that particular TV? Do you have this problem as well??

I guess I'll try to track down Sony support on Monday.

-- Doug

[Jaboo]

Originally posted by kevinkrohn
This is DEFINITELY your TV. I have the same set and had the same "flashing" problem. It is a known problem with the set and Sony needs to fix it. I fought long and hard with them to get mine fixed and paid for. It was out of warranty but obviously a problem that was with the set from day 1. The service bulletin is No. 442R3. If they give you any BS (which they will), don't give up. They need to replace the "A" board. It will be about $600-800 if they don't cover it. Best of luck. It was a nightmare for me. They originally tried to do some other fix on the circuit board by taking my set apart and into the shop. NO DICE. They had my set for weeks. The A Board fix can be done by you and in minutes. Here is the number to the service tech. who I talked to, John: 239-768-7600x6719.
He will know about it. You likely will have to call another number first however to get a service ticket number. Again, best of luck!

Hey thanks soooo much for the detailed info! I guess I'll keep the unit and give them a call Monday. I'll fight them tooth and nail over this. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again!

[pinballfan]

Well I just tried an on-line chat with a support rep. Boy, talk about a waste of time.

He claimed every issue they know about is posted on their website and pointed me to a search page where only 2 TV related issues are posted (2 issues for all Sony TVs ever produced!) Yeah, they post everything...

Perhaps that was all HE knew....

I tried calling John and got his voice mail. (Yes he identified himself as "John" in the VM greeting.) I'll try again Monday duing business hours.

--
kevinkrohn, I don't suppose you know the part # of the board that needs to be replaced do you? Since I bought my TV in November of 2000 I am not too optimistic about getting them to foot the bill for the part. It does look like I might be able to order the board if I know the details.
--
Jaboo, did you say you had this problem at all resolutions? When I set the Tivo to output 480i I don't see the issue anymore. I recorded Harry Potter tonight and the scene when Hagrid knocks down the door to see Harry (near the beginning of the movie) caused it to flicker several times at 1080i, but not at all at 480i.

-- Doug

[ANSEK]

I am now convinced the HD TiVo is exacerbating the problem. I had the fix outlined in Service Buliten 442R3 back in November of '02. When I watch a program on the HD TiVo the screen flashes with sudden dark to bright transitions. When I watch the same program on the HD200 it does not flash.

[Flepper]

I have this problem, too.

The Sony Service bulletin can be found at:

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/TVP0442-607.pdf

I have the extended warranty from CC and will see if they will fix this. If it costs $600-$800, I bet I'm in for a fight.

I noticed that while watching UPN last night the pictue would start to blur near the top of the display, and then the screen would go black momentarily. I don't believe this is the TV, as 1080i does not appear on the screen when the picture comes back on.

[Jaboo]

Originally posted by pinballfan

--
Jaboo, did you say you had this problem at all resolutions? When I set the Tivo to output 480i I don't see the issue anymore. I recorded Harry Potter tonight and the scene when Hagrid knocks down the door to see Harry (near the beginning of the movie) caused it to flicker several times at 1080i, but not at all at 480i.

-- Doug

Well, I had left it on 480i and told the wife to watch it and let me know while I mowed, she said it 'dropped', I'll double check today. I also watched Harry Potter last night and it constantly dropped at 1080i, I'm talking every 5 to 10 minutes.

[pinballfan]

Thanks for the link Flepper,

Unfortunately that bulletin doesn't list my model #. Worse yet it suggests that boards built after July 2000 would not have this issue. Since my set was built in November 2000 it doesn't look good...

Can folks please post their TV model #s and build dates so we can see if we can find a connection?

Ansek,

You say you already had the fix applied? Did it solve a problem you were having at the time with another DTV tuner or DVD player?

-- Doug

[ANSEK]

Originally posted by pinballfan
Thanks for the link Flepper,

Unfortunately that bulletin doesn't list my model #. Worse yet it suggests that boards built after July 2000 would not have this issue. Since my set was built in November 2000 it doesn't look good...

Can folks please post their TV model #s and build dates so we can see if we can find a connection?

Ansek,

You say you already had the fix applied? Did it solve a problem you were having at the time with another DTV tuner or DVD player?

-- Doug

Doug,

Yes, I had the fix outlined in Sony Service Bulletin 442R3 applied to my KP61-HS10 in November of '02 and it fixed the problem when using my SAT-HD200. The HD TiVo appears to be sending information in a different manner causing the flash.

If this continues and it comes down to having HD TiVo with flashing and HDTV with no flashing. I choose to ditch the HD TiVo.

I am not saying the TV is blameless but it works perfect with my HD200 so the HD TiVo must be doing something wrong.

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by ANSEK
If this continues and it comes down to having HD TiVo with flashing and HDTV with no flashing. I choose to ditch the HD TiVo.

I am not saying the TV is blameless but it works perfect with my HD200 so the HD TiVo must be doing something wrong.

As much as it pains me I think I'll have to agree on both counts....

-- Doug

[Jaboo]

This really sux. So we may have to get a HW upgrade for the TV plus wait on DTV to send a software update that only affects certain TVs? The odds aren't looking so good....:(

[kevinkrohn]

I guarantee you it is the TV only. When mine had the problem, it would only be affected by certain scenes and only on 1080i until they tried to perform the transistor fix. Then it happened on DVDs as well. The A board replacement COMPLETELY solved the problem on all inputs. I have NEVER seen another 'flash' since the fix was completed two years ago. Make them replace the board. The TIVO is not to blame. As for the HD200, it may not induce flashing, I used an HD100 when I had the issue, but that doesn't make the TIVO defective.

[Jaboo]

Well with the help of an Ex Sony Repairman, I'm gonna try to replace these parts myself. I'm off to Radio Shack to get them now. I'll keep everyone posted.

[ANSEK]

Originally posted by kevinkrohn
I guarantee you it is the TV only. When mine had the problem, it would only be affected by certain scenes and only on 1080i until they tried to perform the transistor fix. Then it happened on DVDs as well. The A board replacement COMPLETELY solved the problem on all inputs. I have NEVER seen another 'flash' since the fix was completed two years ago. Make them replace the board. The TIVO is not to blame. As for the HD200, it may not induce flashing, I used an HD100 when I had the issue, but that doesn't make the TIVO defective.

kevin,

Are you saying that you have a HD TiVo connected to an HS10 series TV and you do not have flashing? If you do not have an HD TiVo yet, I would like to see if your replaced A board holds up better than my fixed A board. I have used three different 1080i sources with my TV since my A board was fixed, HD200, Xbox (enter the Matrix) and HD TiVo. Only the HD TiVo causes the TV to flash. I can watch the begining of CSI and CSI: MIAMI with all of the bright white flashes without a problem on my HD200. I can't even watch Minority Report on my HD TiVo without flashing. As I mentioned before, I am not holding the TV blameless but, I do believe the HD TiVo is outputing 1080i in a manner different from any other 1080i source I have used with my TV.

[kevinkrohn]

I totally agree that it is outputting 1080i in a different manner, just not likely a defective manner. My HDTIVO comes on Wednesday but it is going to be connected to my Sharp 10000 front projector to be used in my theatre room (with my 123" Stewart screen!). I have used both my HD200 and my HD100 on the set with no problems after the board was replaced. Due to the set-up of the 61HS10 and the difficulty in connecting the TIVO, I will not be able to test it for you. I guess all I can say is what worked for me. The fix did not work, but the board replacement totally cured the problem. Best of luck!!

[Jambo]

I also have the 57XBR10W and had a jitter issue when on Video 5 using component. Under warranty (just barely), I got them to replace the "A" board and haven't had a problem since then.

[pinballfan]

Jambo,

Just confirming... Do you have a HD Tivo? Another person posted a message suggesting they had a fix (for a problem with another device), but that the problem was back now with the HD Tivo...

Also, what device gave you trouble? (My Sony HD-100 and Sony progressive scan DVD players work fine.)

Thanks!

-- Doug

[ratfacejt]

I have the same problem -- A repair guy under the Goodguy's extended warranty is coming out tomorrow. Hopefully they will fix it without a fight.

[KBC]

I am so glad I found this thread. I've been asking about my Flicker problem on other threads and was now trying to find a new HD TIVO to exchange. Now I am reading here that it is my TV. I have the Sony KP 61HS10 also and the flicker is driving me crazy.

Should I hold off on exchanging my TIVO for now? I'll be watching this thread so keep the info coming. Thanks

[patjoy]

I have had the same problem. I use a Princeton AF3.0HD monitor which is VESA rated. The monitor will blink out for a moment when there is a transition in the picture, like from one scene to another. I was able to step through frame by frame with the TiVo. It mostly happens when the transition involves a frame that is bright white. It then will lose frame sync and then regain it. On the AF3.0 this is indicated by bringing up the port designator on the screen, does that every time. This seems to happen only on programs with this one or two frames of bright white. I think something is not right in the TiVo. I hope that they acknowledge this problem.

Pat

[dmaneyapanda]

it shouldn't have anything to do with the tivo. it's a problem with the tv/monitor and the vertical sync. during scenes with fast transitions from bright white to dark (or maybe it's the other way around), the TV will lose vertical sync momentarily because of a problem in the TV electronics.

I would be highly suspicious that swapping out the tivo will have any effect on this problem. Your only recourse will be to have your tv set fixed.

Having said this, I don't know why the problem would happen when using a HDTivo to view source material, but not when using another HD receiver to view the same material. The HDTiVo should be just recording and playing back the EXACT SAME bitstream as any other HD receiver is.

The only thing I can think of is that the HD Tivo is somehow calibrated differently when converting the digital signal into an analog/component signal, and is somehow doing so in a way which causes the vsync to be even more problematic.

Even if this is the case, swapping HD TiVo's will likely have no effect. We'd have to wait for a new HD TiVo hardware spec, which will no doubt be a long, long time coming. Again, your best bet will probably (and unfortunately) be to have your set serviced.

[Jambo]

No, I don't have one yet (Father's Day is coming up though, :)). However, I noticed it when using my JVC-723GD progressive scan DVD player using Video 5. The TV would be on for, oh, about 15-20 minutes and then the screen image would start jumping up and down fractions of an inch.

To test, I ran the same signal using another video input using a composite signal and it didn't do it.

I also ran my computer through the Video 5 input using progressive scan timings and it jittered, so then I knew it was the TV.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Jamie

Originally posted by pinballfan
Jambo,

Just confirming... Do you have a HD Tivo? Another person posted a message suggesting they had a fix (for a problem with another device), but that the problem was back now with the HD Tivo...

Also, what device gave you trouble? (My Sony HD-100 and Sony progressive scan DVD players work fine.)

Thanks!

-- Doug

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by Jambo
No, I don't have one yet (Father's Day is coming up though, :)). However, I noticed it when using my JVC-723GD progressive scan DVD player using Video 5. The TV would be on for, oh, about 15-20 minutes and then the screen image would start jumping up and down fractions of an inch.


Hmm. Bummer, sounds like a different problem. I don't think anyone has seen the up/down movement you describe. If you look back through the thread you will note we have been seeing the display act like we had changed the input resolution (where the screen goes black and then comes back with an overlay of the video source and resolution).

-- Doug

[Jambo]

Yeah, but check out the description in the TSB that someone posted:

"Intermittent loss of sync, and picture distortion, with component video and 1080i format. Picture may blink or jitter when playing progressive-scan DVDs. Both these symptoms may be observed when using the Video-5 input."

Blink OR jitter. I'd bet money that if you got a new "A" board, that'd do it. :)

Jamie


Originally posted by pinballfan
Hmm. Bummer, sounds like a different problem. I don't think anyone has seen the up/down movement you describe. If you look back through the thread you will note we have been seeing the display act like we had changed the input resolution (where the screen goes black and then comes back with an overlay of the video source and resolution).

-- Doug

[KBC]

The flicker on my set happens on all formats, 1080 or 480 on mostly HD channels. It is when a quick shot to black is when the flicker happens and then the TV display pops on. Very annoying. I just want to make sure to find out if it is a TIVO problem or not before the 30 days run out.

[kevinkrohn]

KBC-

Trust me, it is the set. Don't worry about exchanging your TIVO. Back when I had this problem there was a HS10 forum that talked all about this issue. All sets made before a certain date had the problem. My buddy has the 53HS10 and had the same problem. Call Sony.

[Jaboo]

Originally posted by kevinkrohn
KBC-

Trust me, it is the set. Don't worry about exchanging your TIVO. Back when I had this problem there was a HS10 forum that talked all about this issue. All sets made before a certain date had the problem. My buddy has the 53HS10 and had the same problem. Call Sony.

haha, I was in the HS10 forum complaining about this back then. I searched for that Yahoo forum and it is now gone :( I'm about to do the modification described in the service bulletin. I know it isn't replacing the whole 'A' board, but it's worth a shot.

[kevinkrohn]

Jaboo-

Just know that the service bulletin fix actually made my problem MUCH worse!! Be prepared to replace the entire board if it doesn't work.

[ANSEK]

Originally posted by dmaneyapanda

The only thing I can think of is that the HD Tivo is somehow calibrated differently when converting the digital signal into an analog/component signal, and is somehow doing so in a way which causes the vsync to be even more problematic.


This the point I am trying to make. My TV was fixed and working flawlessly for almost two years but the HD TiVo is somehow calibrated differently causing the TV to lose vsync even though other HD Turners do not cause the TV to lose vsync. As I said in a previous post I do not hold the TV blameless but the HD TiVo is not blameless either.

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by ANSEK
This the point I am trying to make. My TV was fixed and working flawlessly for almost two years but the HD TiVo is somehow calibrated differently causing the TV to lose vsync even though other HD Turners do not cause the TV to lose vsync. As I said in a previous post I do not hold the TV blameless but the HD TiVo is not blameless either.

ANSEK,

Perhaps I missed it in the thread, but did you say if you just had the board fixed as in the service bulletin or if you actually had it replaced? Do you know?

I don't know, but I am speculating that the service bulletin may provide a partial fix, whereas a board swap might do more? Thinking/hoping out loud...

So far I don't think we have heard from anyone with a similar vintage Sony HD-ready RPTV that is able to get a good signal from a HD Tivo... board replaced or not. Did I miss anything?

-- Doug

[KBC]

If not a new TIVO then am I hearing a new TV. To pull that off I would have to remodel the living room with new carpet and new furniture and hope to blend a new TV in there to get it past my wife.

Before I start dreaming I better see if this can be fixed. I do have 1 year left on my extended warranty I can use that says if the problem can't be fixed they could issue me a new one.

[ANSEK]

Originally posted by pinballfan
ANSEK,

Perhaps I missed it in the thread, but did you say if you just had the board fixed as in the service bulletin or if you actually had it replaced? Do you know?

I don't know, but I am speculating that the service bulletin may provide a partial fix, whereas a board swap might do more? Thinking/hoping out loud...

So far I don't think we have heard from anyone with a similar vintage Sony HD-ready RPTV that is able to get a good signal from a HD Tivo... board replaced or not. Did I miss anything?

-- Doug

Doug,

I had the board fixed not replaced. The repair guy came to my house with the the 442R3 service bulletin in hand. He also brought a series of capacitors and other electronic components. The TV worked fine after the repair.

I understand what you are saying about a partial fix but that partial fix worked great for all other devices before the HD TiVo.

[Jaboo]

OK, we did the Service bulliten fix last night. It's too early to tell just yet. I got home really late and reinstalled everything. This morning, I left it running on 480p for 20 minutes with no dropsouts at all. I will test 1080i when I get home later this afternoon for an extended period of time and let everyone know.

[jhearn]

I have the KP-61HS10 and am experiencing the same flicker display problems as described in this thread. I have an extensive electronic repair background and would be comfortable making these circuit board changes as described in the Sony service bulletin.

Was looking for the service manual for the KP-61HS10 on the web without any success. If anyone could point me to a site where the manual could be found, or simply describe the location of the "A" board and any "oh by the ways" as far a removal of the card, I would appreciate it.
Jack

[Jaboo]

The 'A' board is where all the components connect on the outside. Just take the back off the TV, then remove all the screws on the component inputs. Slide that back and remove the wires. Heck you'll see it. There is nothing tricky about removing the board at all. I do have the service manual. I'm not sure if it is 'legal' for me to send it? It's 20 megs in size.

[jhearn]

Originally posted by Jaboo
The 'A' board is where all the components connect on the outside. Just take the back off the TV, then remove all the screws on the component inputs. Slide that back and remove the wires. Heck you'll see it. There is nothing tricky about removing the board at all. I do have the service manual. I'm not sure if it is 'legal' for me to send it? It's 20 megs in size.

Thank you Jaboo. No, no need for the service manual (would not be legal), the card removal sounds easy enough.

Jack

[Jaboo]

Yeah it really is easy. The manul helped in finding some of the circuits. Keep us updated.

[Hamster]

I'm the guy who did the mod for Jaboo.

That bulletin is a bit confusing, specifically the last step regarding Q552. I don't see why it was so far away from the Q553 procedure and laid out in a different manner. It's almost as if the Jersey tech who wrote it was putting in the steps as he was hacking the circuit.

If you do this fix, pull the daughter boards off the A board and it'll be much easier to work with. You might want some help since you have to pull two snaps back and then pull the modules out, and they are a tight fit.

At any rate, here's what I did:

Top of A board:
1) Removed Q552, Q553, R600, and R698. They are all very near each other and are easily visible in the bulletin's photos.
2) Put a jumper across the pads where R600 was.
3) Used the 470 Ohm resistor pulled from step 1 (R698)*, and put it across the base and emitter pads of Q552. The base and emitter are the pads that are on the same side of the transistor, for those that are wondering. The collector is all by its lonesome. It isn't relevant which is B or E for our purposes here.


Bottom of A board:
1) Put the three 22uF caps in parallel with C693, C694, C696 as per the bulletin photos. Make sure that, the stripe indicating negative is oriented to the top pad that you solder to. In other words, the negative lead goes toward the edge of the PCB. Radio Shack P/N: 272-1026
2) Replaced C638 with RS P/N: 272-109. This cap was a pain to find on the board. If I recall correctly, it's down about 5 inches, and left 3 inches from the three caps in step 1 holding the board with those three caps at the top. It's a surface mount, but I replaced it with a standard component.


* Now that I think of it, I didn't check to see if it was a 470 or 1K. If the fix doesn't work, I'll put a generic 470 resistor in there. I advise anyone who wants to reuse the R698 resistor to check the value with a meter.

[KBC]

I'm about to call the repair man on this issue. Any suggestions on what to say to them? I guess they should know about the problem already.

[kevinkrohn]

KBC-

They likely know about it, but don't be surprised if they act like they don't. Just be very firm. Don't let them try to tell you it might be something else, or we need to check it to be sure. I would demand that it be covered whether under warranty or not. It is a recall type of problem and should be fixed for all who inquire. Best of luck!

[Jaboo]

I Recorded According to Jim in High Def and no drop outs what so ever. I'm watching Less than perfect live. No drop outs since the mod. Everything is good here.

[KBC]

Originally posted by Jaboo
I Recorded According to Jim in High Def and no drop outs what so ever. I'm watching Less than perfect live. No drop outs since the mod. Everything is good here.

Great to hear this. I did call and she told me she would look into it. She called me back an hour later and said she found the problem and they will come out to fix it. The only problem now is she said the part was back ordered and won't be in till June 4th.

At least i don't have to worry about the Tivo exchange. At least I hope not. According to Jaboo it looks encouraging.

[rtaylor123]

Thanks for the helpful modification tips Hamster and Jaboo!

I was aware of the service note, but I did not have a problem with the set until tonight when I tried watching a HD-Tivo recording for the first time. Your success gave me confidence to attempt the fix.

I did the mod, and the problem has been corrected. The portion of the recording that would previously fail 100% of the time now works perfectly.


A few notes:

1) C638 is located 1/3 of the way from the left and 1/5 of the way from the bottom - to the left of the metal shield on the back. I didn't have a ruler, but it is more than 5"/3".

2) On my board (March 2000), R698 was 4.7K and R600 was 1K. So I had to come up with an additional 470 ohm resistor (0805 package). Using R698 resistor would have been significantly different from the Sony recipe.

3) Board removal diagrams from the service manual can be retrieved here:

http://myweb.cableone.net/rtaylor1/KP-XXHS10%20Service%20Manual%20Brief.pdf

[pinballfan]

For the folks that posted the service bulletin and the service manual... any chance you can find info on the KP-57XBR10W as well?

Thanks,

-- Doug

[Flepper]

I just had a CC authorized service person out to fix my KP-53HS10. He first stated that the problem was not with the TV because it showed up on the recording ("If you can record it before it gets to the TV, that proves it's not the TV"). I tried (in vain) to explain that the 10-250 was recording the 1080i image in native format, and that the drop out was not on the "tape" [his term] but was being consistently reproduced because the recording was digital and did not change. I also told him that the fact that the drop out does not occur when I play back at 480i. I thought this would prove my point, but he insisted that proved the problem was with the STB method of converting 1080i. I again pointed out that the signal was 1080i native, and that there was no conversion (but there is a decoding). He continued to blame it on the STB, even after I pointed out a similar problem with the Samsung SIRT351.

He then stated it was a known issue with DirecTV. I pointed out that the SIRT351 and the OTA signal I had recorded were not DirecTV.

I showed him a copy of the Sony Service Bulletin. He asked me where I got it, and when I told him I got it off the Internet, he stated it was a fake. He told me he would call Sony and call me back, but he had other jobs to get to tonight.

I called CC, and they have agreed to send out a different company to take a look at it. It's been 3 hours and the first guy has not called back.

[Jaboo]

Boy that sux! It's so bad when you know more than the Tech.

[KBC]

That doesn't sound good. I had no problem with my service tech. I am glad I got the extended warranty. I only get them on the big items.

I do get the flickering problem on 480i also.

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by KBC
I do get the flickering problem on 480i also.

Yes, so do I. At first I thought 480i was a workaround. It seems that at 480i most (?99%) of the flickering is gone but not all.

I thought of an alternate workaround that I haven't yet tried. Input four is supposed to be 480i only. I'd bet feeding a 480i signal there should dodge the problem since supposedly that input doesn't know how to handle anything else.

I suppose if one can find a segment that flickers at 480i on input five, and then confirm that it plays fine on input four one could argue that was proof the set was at fault.

Of course the other option is to hook it to another TV via component and prove that works. I was thinking since I bought mine from CC I might take it in (with some shows recorded already) and see if they would let me test it on one of their sets. I friend at work has also offered to let me test it on his set. A may go that way....

-- Doug

[ANSEK]

Originally posted by KBC
That doesn't sound good. I had no problem with my service tech. I am glad I got the extended warranty. I only get them on the big items.

I do get the flickering problem on 480i also.

I got the extended warranty and they said since it was a manufacture's bug they wouldn't fix it under my extended warranty. The techs they sent out were complete idiots. So I decided to pay for the fix out of my own pocket it cost me $250 but it was worth it. Unfortunately my fix doesn't work with the HD TiVo.

[pinballfan]

I spent some time reviewing the service manual for the KP-61HS10. I have a KP-57XBR10W so it doesn't quite match my system but I learned a few things...

First, there is a partial workaround available. The service menu offers an option to lock video 5 in 1080i mode. This considerably reduces the dropout, but you still get a flicker (actually I'd call it a brief "tear") in the picture at the trouble spots. Presented this way it doesn't seem surprising that the TV is trying to resync the resolution.

The problem with this is that it requires giving up the ability to easily drop down to 480i or 480p. This isn't a good option for me at least since my DVD player produces 480p, and it is currently on a component video switch connected to this input. I suppose I could go back to 480i on the DVD using video 4 and lock video 5 at 1080.... hmm I'll have to think on that (it means re-training the wife... hmmm)

With some additional web surfing I also learned that my TV does NOT appear to share the same parts. An 'A Board' for the 61HS10 costs about $800-900. For the 57XBF10W it is about half that. So it sounds like the boards are not particularly similar. I had been thinking of pulling the board to see if it matched the description in the service bulletin, but now I don't think I'll bother.

-- Doug

[Flepper]

Originally posted by ANSEK
I got the extended warranty and they said since it was a manufacture's bug they wouldn't fix it under my extended warranty. The techs they sent out were complete idiots.

The contract does state that they do not cover problems that existed before the contract takes effect. It's sort of like the preexisting condition exclusion in medical coverage. Of course, with medical coverage someone would have to diagnose me (and tell me) before it would be excluded. Here, Sony put out a "confidential" service bulletin in hopes that we would never use the the TV with HDTV. I'd push Sony hard to get reimbursed as this is a known design flaw.

[Hutty]

Well Im glad to finally have some concrete info on this problem. I'll have to try the 1080i lock when I get home from work, I'm not sure the model so I hope I have it.

[ratfacejt]

Originally posted by ANSEK
I got the extended warranty and they said since it was a manufacturer’s bug they wouldn't fix it under my extended warranty. The techs they sent out were complete idiots. So I decided to pay for the fix out of my own pocket it cost me $250 but it was worth it. Unfortunately my fix doesn't work with the HD TiVo.

I have a Good Guys extended warranty -- the service tech came out within 24 hours of my call to check out my 57xbr10. The tech (who clearly enjoys and takes pride in his work) knew what the problem was. He had already called Sony to confirm his suspicions and check availability of parts -- no argument about fixing or whether is was covered, just apologized that he couldn't get the parts before the service call, and promise to be back in a week or two when the parts came in. Hopefully the fix will go as smoothly as things have to date.

He did say that Sony views this as an issue with the various HD boxes that result in the problem, but also said something like "but what are they going to do, say there is nothing wrong with the set, it just isn't compatible with a bunch of receivers?!?"

Frankly, this shouldn't be warranty/no warranty problem in the first place -- it's either a design defect (which should be fixed no matter when it is discovered by the user) or the set is fine, and it should never have been repaired regardless of whether under warranty or not.

[Hutty]

Originally posted by pinballfan

First, there is a partial workaround available. The service menu offers an option to lock video 5 in 1080i mode.

Can someone tell me how to get into the service menu on a 53HS10 and change that setting? TIA

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by Hutty
Can someone tell me how to get into the service menu on a 53HS10 and change that setting? TIA

I hesitated at first to post the details since you can screw things up if you change things in the service menu. But if you pull down the service manual (posted earlier in this thread), you will see a discussion of how to access and navigate the service menu on page 43. Then later in the manual near the top right on page 49 is a mention of the forced 1080i setting including the place it is in the menu. Basically it is in category OP, the adjustment is called 1080, and to force it you want the value to be 001 instead of 000 which is the default.

-- Doug

[Hutty]

Ok got it.....thanks a lot. It certainly makes things more tolerable.

[shark]

I also have had the sync video dropout problem with the new HD Tivo and my Sony 57xbr10w tv. You stated that your "A Board" was previously replaced. Does this allow you to use the HD Tivo without the sync problems? Did the replacement affect your ability to use the TV's Video 5 input for resolutions other than 1080i? I already have a scheduled service call under my extended warranty and would really like to offer the repair tech whatever info I can on a fix.

[bth2k2]

Good news for KP-57XBR10W owners! Last night I received the service manual from Sony, upon studying the "A" board schematics I figured out that the modification procedure for the above mentioned model is the same, with the following exceptions. Only Q552 and the C638 need to be changed as per the service bulletin, these are the last two steps on the service bulletin. All steps before that have been incorporated into the revised circuit changes for the chassis. Both these models use the same chassis series, the KP-57XBR10W (RA-4W) the KP-61HS10 (RA-4B), Sony usually designs boards to be used in various TV chassis. The "W" usually means a revision change from the "B" version.

Bottom line! I modified my “A” board per the last two steps and I have no loss of sync with the HD TiVo, I ran the set about 6 hours after the modification and there was no sync loss, this was both on “live TV” and recorded HD material.

Here are the steps:
1. Removed Q552
2. Install 470 ohm resister on (Q552) base to emitter circuit pads on the circuit baord.
3. Changed C638 to 0.1uF, 25V capacitor.

[bth2k2]

For anyone interested my KP-57XBR10W was made December 2000.

[BagNDrag]

Good news! Do you happen to know if the KP 65XBR10w shares the same board as your 57xbr10w? I would imagine they do. Let me know if you know the answer as I would like to simply be able to perform the last 2 steps of the service bulletin to get this thing up and running with my HR10-250! Thanks for the info!

-Mark

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by bth2k2
Bottom line! I modified my “A” board per the last two steps and I have no loss of sync with the HD TiVo, I ran the set about 6 hours after the modification and there was no sync loss, this was both on “live TV” and recorded HD material.

Here are the steps:
1. Removed Q552
2. Install 470 ohm resister on (Q552) base to emitter circuit pads on the circuit baord.
3. Changed C638 to 0.1uF, 25V capacitor.
:D
Boy is that good news! I was not particularly optimistic that I was going to get a fix (short of buying a new TV!) Were you able to verify this with any segments you had recorded and had trouble with before the fix?

I am generally pretty handy with various sorts of repair work, but I have only limited experience with circuit board work, and I'm trying to decide if I am up for the task.

Swapping out a capacitor seems pretty striaght forward. But I am not clear about step 2. Both your note and the service bulletin metion "base to emitter". I haven't looked at the board yet (which might help me understand), but can you clarify what this implies? Also, does the board in the KP-57XBR10W match the layout of the board in the service bulletin (match the pics), or should I expect a different layout?

Thanks,

-- Doug

[chickenscratch]

To David in Plano, the several seconds of white noise when switching resolutions isn't really normal. I mean, my TV (36XBR800) does it also on the DVI input, but the GWIIIs do not do it. I took my HDTiVo to a friend's place a couple days ago and tried it and it switches instantly.

So, it isn't normal, although it appears to be normal for our two TVs which use Sony's earliest DVI input. I am going to try to contact Sony and see if it can be corrected next week. My guess is it cannot.

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by pinballfan
But I am not clear about step 2. Both your note and the service bulletin metion "base to emitter".

Nevermind, I get it.

I still haven't decided for sure if I am up for this, but I'm off to R/S to see if I can find the parts...

If anyone has any other tips/hints/tricks etc please speak up soon! :-)

-- Doug

[baggsey]

I have the KP-53HS10, and experienced exactly the same problems of image loss at bright moments.....have applied the service menu fix to lock Video 5 at 1080i, which took 2 mins, and should resolve the problem until I get a newer TV.

[pinballfan]

bth2k2... You Rock! :D

The fix worked wonderfully!

I have played back several segments that were certain to fail prior to the modifications.

I am one very happy camper....

-- Doug

[ANSEK]

Locking in 1080i mode helps a little.

[KBC]

The repair guy told me he has the part ordered and will be in June 4th.

Do you have an idea if he is replacing the board with one that is already modified or will he modify the original board on site? Just curious if any one else had it repaired yet.

[Hutty]

Just to clarify....I also have the KP-53HS10, would simply performing the last 2 steps on the SB also work for my set? Or is that only for the XBR?

[pinballfan]

Originally posted by Hutty
Just to clarify....I also have the KP-53HS10, would simply performing the last 2 steps on the SB also work for my set? Or is that only for the XBR?

I can't say for sure, but I believe you will need the full list. The short list is for sets like the XBR that appear to have a partial fix implemented at the factory (as a part of the original build).

If you look at the service bulletin you can check your board to see if it already has some of the changes or not.

For example, look at Figure 1. On my board the Q553 part does not exist. Also, where the solder bridge is shown in the picture I have what looks like a chip resistor, but it has a 0 written on it (which I assume implies 0 resistance, ie the equivalent of a solder bridge).

My board does not have the capacitors of Figure 2 mounted on the bottom, but I suspect the top mounted caps have been changed to a different spec. (I put a little blind faith in bth2k2 here...)

-- Doug

[bth2k2]

Sorry for not posting in a few days, I was enjoying my HD TiVo and working TV all weekend!

The KP-65XBR10w uses the same "A" board as the 57" version, the 65" model is listed in the same service manual I have. I would assume that the fix would also work for the 65" model.

"pinballfam" the top mounted capacitors were the corrected parts that are listed in the service bulletin, only the last two steps are needed for our XBR sets.

[KBC]

Has any one here have the tech fix the problem yet?

For me the guy came yesterday to change the part. Then he told me that it was the same part I already had. Then tried to blame the problem on TIVO.

We kept watching for the flicker to happen but it wasn't. I kept telling them believe me there is a problem. I then showed them this forum and pulled up the service bulletin. They said how did you get that? That's awesome. After reading they then began to believe me. We went back to the set and the flicker problem was happening. He told me it was was because the set was now warmed up and the capacitors were failing.

They took my set and I won't see it till Tuesday. So I was wondering if any one is having success on this repair.

[Jambo]

My "A"-board problem only happened after about 10-15 minutes of warm up. My technicians did the repair with no problem. They had to take my set too, but I got it back the next day after they took it.

Originally posted by KBC
Has any one here have the tech fix the problem yet?

For me the guy came yesterday to change the part. Then he told me that it was the same part I already had. Then tried to blame the problem on TIVO.

We kept watching for the flicker to happen but it wasn't. I kept telling them believe me there is a problem. I then showed them this forum and pulled up the service bulletin. They said how did you get that? That's awesome. After reading they then began to believe me. We went back to the set and the flicker problem was happening. He told me it was was because the set was now warmed up and the capacitors were failing.

They took my set and I won't see it till Tuesday. So I was wondering if any one is having success on this repair.

[Flepper]

My saga continues. As earlier posted, the first tech said the problem was not with the TV because I was able to "tape" it on the HDTivo. Then he blamed D* although it was an OTA signal. Finally, he left and said he'd call back after talking to Sony. Five days later he called, but CC had set me up with a new company. This company does not do in home in my area and took my TV away. They called back and said they would perform the mod and would fix another problem their diagnostics found (AK failure?). TV came back today (they only visit my area on Thursdays) and hooked it up to find the video synch problem was worse! Back to the shop with promises of fixing it this time--another week (at least) with no HDTV.

[pinballfan]

Sorry to hear about your troubles Flepper...

All I can say is hang in there... it will be worth the wait!

It's been about 2 and 1/2 weeks since I modified my set and I haven't had any problems.

-- Doug

[Flepper]

Tech #2 called back and said he had replaced the A board before sending the unit to me, and that he is unable duplicate the problem with his test equipment. He speculates it must be the HDTivo. I asked why all of the people with "bad" HDTivos happen to own Sony TVs. I took the HDTivo to a neighbor's Gateway LCD and no problem. He said he would call a Sony tech and see if they know what the problem is. I told him I thought he had replaced my A board with another bad A board, as the problem was even more pronounced when I got the TV back.

The saga continues...

[ratfacejt]

I had my Sony (different model, same problem) fixed a week ago by a Good Guys tech. No problems since the fix.

[Drenhead]

Has anyone had any luck with an Ultimate Electronics warranty repair? I am having this problem with my 61HS10, but it is still under warranty with Ultimate Electronics. They are coming out to look at 2 tvs next Wednesday and I am going to show the problem to him along with the service bulletin and was just wondering what my chances are of them fixing it.

[BagNDrag]

Yahoo! I finally had the time to perform the fix (Which our good friend here found out I only had to do the last two steps in the bulletin, I have the Sony KP65xbr10w) and it works flawlessly!! Awesome! Thanks everyone for the help and info provided!

-Mark

[DinoT]

I thought that I would chime in here....I have had a Sony KP-61HS10 since Aug. 2000. I used to have an RCA DTC-100 hooked up to it. It would exhibit this sync lock problem sporadically. Mostly it was on CSI. They have a lot of scenes where they flash (with an accompanying "flash" noise) and my TV would always lose sync on those scenes. I later upgraded to a Sony SATHD100. When I hooked up the HD100 the problem went away. I mean completely away. It was good for a few years. Recently I got a Samsung T-360 and hooked it up to the old Sony (I have since added a Hitachi 65SWX20b and Sony 65WS510 to my home). Guess what creeped back in? The old sync problem. It was much worse than it was with the DTC-100. I've since gotten a pair of HS10-250's which now reside on the 65" sets. I put the HD100 back onto the the 61HS10 and all is well.

I will probably try to call Sony up to see if they might "work" with me on this. I say that because my wife is getting the itch to get another HS10-250 on the 61HS10 (which is now in my bedroom).

Dino

[Flepper]

Finally, I got someone to make the repair under the extended warranty. First guy insisted the problem was on the HDTivo. I told him about the service bulletin and he said he'd check with Sony and get back to me. It took him 10 days to get back to me, so before he called back, CC sent another tech from another company. They took the TV away and said they replaced the A-board. I got it back and it still had the problem--back to the shop. They took the HDTivo to show the tech the problem. He said he could not duplicate the problem, even with recordings where I know it happens. CC said these were the only two companies in the area. Back to the first company. They had since fired the tech who came to my house. The new guy ordered the parts. They came in today and he installed them. He also noted this was not a new A-board, and that the input 1 card was broken. He fixed that as well for free. The TV works great (first call to CC May 12, problem solved on July 19, glad it's fixed as the warranty runs out in August).

[Diego Rich]

Sony model No. KP-57XBR10
Manufacturer date – May, 2001

Tivo Model No. HR10-250

Problem – When Tivo receiver is connected to Sony TV via component video (video 5), Picture intermittently blacks out and 1080i or 480p is displayed. Problem occurs when scene changes from dark to bright or when switching to and from commercials.

Fix – On the “A” board, replace C638 with 0.1uf/25V (Radio shack part No. 272-109). C638 is located on the bottom of the board.
Remove Q552 (on top of board). Install a 470 ohm, 1/10 watt resistor between the emitter and base pads where the transistor was removed. The emitter and base pads are easy to identify because they are on the same side of the transistor and the collector is a single pad on the opposite side.
Reinstall board.

While you’re at it, you may as well clean the three lenses, mirror and inside of screen – Removing two - three years of dust will greatly enhance your picture quality.

I reluctantly performed the above procedure on 8-15-04 after reading 20 or so comments by others who have preformed it. The fix worked perfectly for me. However, I would not recommend this procedure to anyone who is inexperienced in the removal and installation of surface mounted devices.

Thanks to all for your valuable input. This forum just saved me $600.00 - $900.00 and weeks waiting
:up:

[Hutty]

Just wanted to say that we bit the bullet and did this mod over the weekend. Now it works flawlessly! Also wiped the lenses down with a camera lens cloth (4 year old set) and it's seriously like having a whole new set, I can't believe how much better the picture is. If anyone is still thinking about doing it, just make sure your ready to solder off a bunch of EXTREMELY little resistors. Thanks again to everyone in this thread.

[skyfree]

I attempted this repair myself using parts from Radio Shack last week. Unforunately it did not work. The VIDEO 5 input was completely disabled. By the way, if you feel up to it you will need a pretty big magnifying glass to even see what you are doing.

I called around and had a heck of a time finding a repair person willing to do the modification. I wanted to pass on the contact info for a person I found in the San Francisco Bay area that can do this mod in your home. His name is Clay at AVE TV Service (510) 487-6188. The cost was $245. The repair has been 100% successful with absolutely no dropouts. It turns out that I soldered one of the ends of one of the resistors to the wrong spot because I couldn't really see what I was doing. On the other side, the small capacitor was touching the board.

Here are some things I learned from various sources:

#1. The A board is very sensitive to static, so it should be handled in a static-free environment.
#2. The IC components are very sensitive to heat, so use as little heat as possible when soldering.
#3. If the A-board is completely replaced, the eprom holding the data for the set needs to be reprogrammed. In most cases they will remove the old one and use it in the new board to avoid that problem. Sony does not allow returns of the A-board though, so if you do that yourself, beware that if you mess it up you just wasted $400. If you have a servicer replace the board with a new one, it runs about $700-800, but at least then you would have a guarantee of it working.

I highly recommend AVE instead of trying this yourself if you are in the Bay Area.

It's really nice having the HD capability of the set back, and it saves me having to upgrade.

[JB3]

I have a Sony KP57HW40 with a similar problem. It's not listed in the bulletin and is older than those models listed. Does anyone know of a fix for this model? I have lots of experience with soldering/circuit board repairs so I'd be willing to give this a go.

Thanks

[cover]

Hi all,

It seems I have the same problem with my 61HS10. The link to the service bulletin mentioned early in this thread is down. Does anyone have a copy of the PDF?

Thanks!
Michael

[Hutty]

Link still works for me.....

[cover]

It is back up now. Thanks.

[Jambo]

I just wanted to add to this thread to say that I had the "A"-board in my 57xbr10w replaced in February of 2003 and it fixed the 480p "jitter" that was happening then. However, I got an HR10-250 the other day, and now am getting the "1080i flashing/flicker" problem.

Might be time for the "last 2 steps" fix from the Sony bulletin?

Jamie

[W2DHS]

Ressurecting an old thread here, but I'd like to throw in my experience for the sake of anyone who may attempt this fix in the future.

I consider myself electronics-saavy and have been soldering for many years, though I have limited Surface Mount soldering experience. I gave this procedure a try and have hosed my A-board so that I cannot display 1080i pictures at all.

I will probably be able to fix it, but be warned, do not attempt this unless you have experience working with SMD components. It is not as easy as this thread makes it seem. It is very easy to botch up the solder traces on the board, and many of the connections involved go through the board so are harder to repair if you goof up.

[PeMo]

Has anyone had any luck with an Ultimate Electronics warranty repair? I am having this problem with my 61HS10, but it is still under warranty with Ultimate Electronics. They are coming out to look at 2 tvs next Wednesday and I am going to show the problem to him along with the service bulletin and was just wondering what my chances are of them fixing it.
I hope you return to read this... I'll give my experience with this 'flicker' problem. I originally had the KP-53HS10 (purchased April, 2000) and after I got the Toshiba DST-3000 I started getting the flickering all of the time on 1080i sources. I contacted Ultimate Electronics to fix the issue (I got the extended warranty) and they ended up coming three times to 'fix' it. They replaced board A twice and the problem kept occuring. Of course it didn't happen while they were there because they were there during the day and there was no HD source to show them. (Young and the Restless hadn't started in HD at that point and I didn't have Directv HD at the time) So they were reluctant to do much else as they basically didn't believe me and thought I didn't know what I was talking about.

So after complaining quite a bit, they eventually agreed to replace the TV and give me the new KP-53HS30. It ended up costing me $300 because I had to re-purchase the extended warranty on the new set, but at least the problem was resolved. (And I got the newer model)

[jmhenry5150]

I just got the HD Tivo installed and now come to find out - FIVE YEARS after I purchase my set I try an HD signal and **pprrrppptt**, I have the same sync errors...

UG!

So I call up Sony and get passed the support tech #1 and to support tech #2...after showing her the bulletin in this thread she was dumbfounded that Sony's confidential info was out on the web... (heh heh)

She talked to a supervisor and he said that since it doesn't happen to all the sets, that I am pretty much out of luck and have to pay for it on my own...although, she is going to call me back after talking with another supervisor - I will give her until tommorrow :)

I feel like even though my set is out of warranty, that this is a defect they needs to fix...

Geez, I FINNALY get HD after waiting all this time and the set that I bought to handle it 5 years ago can't...

[mlandman]

Hi,

PRECISELY the same situation here.

Had the kp-53hs10 since Sept 2000.

Got the HD-tivo installed ****TODAY****.

vsync problems ALL OVER THE PLACE on light->dark transitions.

Did the service manual software change to lock in 1080i mode --- still flickers a bit but at least the set doesn't try and reset modes like it did before.

Like you, I had never had hd content on the set until now. lol!!!

I work at a very high tech firm and have friends that have experience soldering on PCBs much more complex than this, so I will try and bribe them with a case of beer. Which I hope they drink AFTER not BEFORE they make the changes. :) lol

PLEEEEEEEEEEASE let me know if you have any luck w/ Sony.

My email is mlandman@avici.com

-mike

[jmhenry5150]

I GOT IT! lol

Sony has offered to replace the board for FREE - they called me tonight...

The labor is on me tho - shouldn't be more than what, $150? The tech guy from the repair store looked up the cost of the board and it was over $500...wow...

What do you gyus think?

mlandman, let me know and I can give you some names to talk to...

[mlandman]

sent you an email (via tivocommunity.com --- hopefully it gets there).

Thanks,

-mike

[mlandman]

Hi,

I was paging through the service manual and I see the instructions for removing the boards, though I haven't tried anything yet.

Question: Is the manual listed in order of removing all sorts of boards before the 'a' board because you HAVE TO remove THOSE boards BEFORE you remove the 'a' board?

In other words -- how many boards will I need to remove here before I can get the 'a' board out?

-mike

[mlandman]

Hi,

In the event that I can't make any progress w/ SONY, I was hoping to pick up the parts and bring my circuit board, parts, and the bulliten to a buddy here @ work that could do this in a jiffy.

I called Radio shack re: the parts and found that yes, everybody that works there is very condescending. I was as honest as I could be re: the fact that I didn't really know the subject matter, you would have thought they would have lightened up.... but to no avail.

Anyway, looking at the bulliten, I have a couple of questions:

What "type" of capacitors are we talking about here --- are they ceramic disk or the 'tin' kind, or which? I know the crapacitance values are spec'd out in the bulliten, but it doesn't specific what KIND of cap. Does the picture infer that it's the tin can kind? Not sure.

Next, on the last step re: the 'chip resistor' --- what is a 'chip resistor'? Is that different from the typical barrel resistor?

Thanks,

-mike

[kbi_s1]

Hi All,

Just wanted to post my experience with this problem. I have the KP-53HS10 model TV and just finished successfully modifying the A board. My TV was purchased in April of 2000. After installing the HD-TiVo, I noticed the sync problems when watching 1080i signals and to a lesser degree, it even happened with 480p signals.

I found that while following the Sony service bulletin for the A board mods, that my A board had R600 already replaced with a 0 Ohm surface mount component, taking the place of a solder bridge. Additionally, Q553 was already removed. I believe that there may be different versions of the A board and not just specific to the TV's model number. Before removing R600, check the resistance of it with an Ohm meter, you may not need to remove it!

Anyways, I completed the rest of the mods per the service bulletin. I used electrolytic caps for the 22uf ones put in parallel on the back of the A board. I used a thin film cap for the 0.1uf cap that replaced C638. I wanted to use a ceramic cap as they are a little smaller but couldn’t find one at Radio Shack. The think film cap worked fine though. Since I did not have an original R600 of 470 Ohm on my A board, I just used a standard through mount resistor and was just really careful not to put too much solder on the pads when soldering it across the Base and Emitter of the recently removed Q552.

The mods worked great and I'm now watching 'flicker free' TV!

I took a previous posters advice and gently cleaned the three projections lenses on the TV and WOW, the picture is unbelievably clear and bright! This is why I bought HD in the first place!

Good luck to anyone attempting this mod. I found it challenging but do-able. Just take your time and be very careful when soldering as to not create a solder bridge to another component! :)

[jmhenry5150]

Update for me as well!

SONY paid for all parts - I paid for labor...

They came out this weekend and fixed it by doing the mod on the board (they didn't replace the board) - total cost was around $170

Watched HD all weekend without problem - WHOO!

[barink]

Lots of great information here. Thanks to everyone who posted.

I just bought the new Directv HDTV box and have the exact same issue discussed here. I called Sony and after some wrangling my support status was upgraded and a service tech called me. Guess who? That's right it was John from Sony that was mentioned earlier. He said Sony will cover labor and parts but I need to pay for a local service rep here in Dallas to come out and look at it first ($75). I will let everyone know what happens.

Have a good day...

[devil's advocate]

A freind of mine and myself both have this Sony TV. I haven't started my fix yet but he has. Sony also told him that he first needs to have it checked to see if that's the problem.
I think that's BS and it's just Sony's way of dissuading many people from fixing their TV at Sony's expense.

I suspect that Sony has had a sudden inrush of new calls over this (aging) issue because of this HDTivo sale! It's possible they took this defensive step of requiring a vi$it as a way to mitigate the upcomming expense of fixing what shouldn't have been produced in the first place.

This TV is the most expensive piece of electronic equipment I've ever bought. For four years I've used it in SD mode exclusively, not knowing that it's HD mode was defective all along. The funny thing is I could forgive Sony for goofing up a new technology. But dammit they should own up to their failure and provide a fix. The problem is very straightforward to identify. Why does it take a technician to determine that you have this problem before the actual repair can begin? Except of course to have people just say "ah forget about it".

[jmhenry5150]

barink,

Call MJ Electronics, 972-380-4000 - they are in Irving

They will come out and repair your set in 1 trip - they know the drill...

[barink]

jmhenry5150: Thanks. They gave me that number but I went with a service tech close to me. Goodman TV in Addison. They are coming out today @ 4PM.

I also do not get why I have to have a service tech come out. John told me that this had to be done and then they would have to come out again to fix it once he talked to the service rep. They should just knock it all out at once. I have a call into John today and will try to get him to cover it all today. :-)

[jmhenry5150]

barink,

I don't live near irving for them either - but they have tech guys that work all around...

Reason for the 1st visit is to determine IF there is aproblem...stupid - but like I said, the place I dealt with knew about the problem and determined it over the phone...only 1 visit!

[barink]

Heard from Goodman TV today that Sony has OK'd the fix and will cover the parts and labor. Guys were at my place like 5 minutes. Cost me $80, but I can live with that. Tech said it would be like $350 to fix if Sony did not cover (sound right?).

Anyway, thanks to everyone here and have a good weekend...

[Grizz]

After many calls to Sony they have agreed to cover my 61HS10. They did ask me where I got the service bulliten... The tech will be here on wed. Lets see what happens.

[jstoddard]

I had a service tech out today to replace my A-board in my KP-53HS10 which is suffering this problem. They ordered an A-board directly from Sony rather than try to modify my existing A-board. New board was put in and suffered just as bad as my original A-board. Back to the drawing board - repair company is going to talk to Sony as they believed that Sony's stock of replacement A-boards had been updated already. They'll either bring a new A-board or the parts to do a fix on my existing board.

Anyone had any luck with putting in a new A-board and it fixing the problem?

Jeff

[fwarren]

barink,

I don't live near irving for them either - but they have tech guys that work all around...

Reason for the 1st visit is to determine IF there is aproblem...stupid - but like I said, the place I dealt with knew about the problem and determined it over the phone...only 1 visit!
JMHENRY,
I am getting the same run around from Sony. They claim to have never heard of the problem, even when I giev them teh service bulletin number. The llevel 3 "supervisor" was supposed to call me back 2 weeks ago and I have called her 10 times over that period and gotten no return call at all! I am getting pissed!Can you give me the name and extension of the Sony Rep that approved your repair reimbursement? Maybe they will remember the problem. Thnak you very much and thank you all on this forum!

/s/ Floyd

[jmhenry5150]

Here is some info:
I called 1-800-222-7669 and talked with Betty (I doubt you'll be able to get her) but just explain your case and the support tech Level 1 will send you send you to support tech Level 2 - the person I talked to is Suzanna (you MIGHT be able to talk to her)...

Be SURE and point them to the service bulletin:
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/TVP0442-607.pdf

Without this I think my case would have been shot...

From then, the support tech will have to contact their supervisor and probably call you back...which they did for me...

[barink]

How sweet it is!

Goodman TV came out yesterday and fixed my TV. Works great and Sony covered the cost. Would have been almost $450 if not (350 p/l + 80 visit + tax). They did not replace the board just fixed the original. The tech gave me the super tiny board parts he replaced and there is no way I would have attempted that on my own. They also cleaned my lenses and that helped. They said to go ahead and clean those every few years yourself. I had them use a lens cleaner I picked up at best buy for a few bucks.

History:
- Tried Sony support web site @ http://esupport.sony.com/. No help!
- Tried live chat with a Sony service rep with live chat @ http://esupport.sony.com/EN/feedback/feedback.html. Horrible experience and useless.
- Called Sony and bitched @ 1-800-222-7669. Got the run-around a bit, but was insistent.
- Upgraded to level 2 support. Guy was pretty good and said a Sony service tech would call me.
- Talked to John from Sony and he told me to have a certified Sony tech come out and look at the TV. Cost me $80 for the visit. Goodman TV had seen the problem before.
- Sony OK'd the fix after talking with local service guy and they came out and fixed it.

Thanks for all the input here and have a great weekend...

[jmhenry5150]

barink, that's great news...

Can anyone else confirm this - ever since the service bulletin fix, when I turn my TV on, it takes it a while to sync up - I get the yellow text "Video signal not supported" or something like that...

What I have to do sometimes is to switch to a non-HD channel, then go back...

Not that big of a deal - but I was wondering if anyone else has this problem since getting their set fixed...

[keefer37]

I've been having this problem since I got my HDTiVo a few weeks ago. I've got a 53" Sony (think the model is kp-53hs10). I never had the problem with a Samsung 160 receiver, but the problem is very prevalent with the HD TiVo. Thanks for the info.. will be trying to get our serviced!

[newby1]

I went through this whole mess a couple of months ago with my KP61-hs10. I called sony and they covered all cost for the repairs. Now that the flashing is fixed I get the signal not supported message and have to flip back and forth to get the 1080i signal to show a picture. Sony has called several times to "follow up" on the matter but I'm too lazy to call the repairman again and have him come back out. Just thought I would throw my 2cents in. I would call and have it repaired again, but think I will buy a new TV sometime around Christmas with the good sales and 0% financing. Also the new SXRD tv's are out and the price is falling rapidly. I'm actually waiting for the JVC lcos 70" to hit the market before taking the leap into a new tv. If you manage to get your tv fixed, post it here. I might just get it fixed if the prices of the new tv's doesn't come down to the 3500 mark.

[double_del]

I have a KP61-hs10 manufactured in February 2001 and I'm experiencing these exact problems. I have tried two different HD boxes. The TSB says this problem is found on TV's built before July 2000. Did anyone eles have this problem with their TV manufactured in 2001 or later? Thanks.

[double_del]

Anyone? I know it's been awhile.

[keefer37]

What's the magic word to get ony to support this? I am told it's the HDirecTiVo's fault and I need to contact DirecTV, despite me telling them about having the specific service bulletin.

[SPARKS91]

I have A KP 53 HS10 i removed the A board myself and took it into a TV shop along with a copy of the service bulletin. Drum roll please.......... It works great! I an now enjoying a crystal clear flicker free picture.The tech charged me $100 and it was $$$ well spent. The components on the board are tiny and the tech said he undercharged me said he spent about 5 hours on the job., most of the time was looking for the components on the board. Anyway I saved alot of $$$ as I was about to go out and buy a new DLP.
By the way I've looked at many new TV's and other than this one bieng 4:3 the picture is awesome in HD. Contact me if you have any questions. This board has been very helpful and I would be happy to pass that help along.
PS This is definately not a TIVO problem I went through three TIVO's and finally realized it was the TV.

[CMC#5]

I just got an HD tivo last friday to go with my kp-61HS10 that I've had for years, got the flickering like the rest of you, and have spent a bunch of time on the phone with Sony trying to get help on this. We've escalated all through levels 1 and 2 and to a supervisor, who finally agreed to help me work something out. I have to admit, so far, I've been very impressed with the quality of the Sony tech folks. This isnt to say they've ponied up a solution that was acceptable, but that they were very polite, well spoken, and had answers to questions. Good job on that part Sony!

So, tonight I had Precision Television from Pleasant Hill show up to look at the TV. They looked at the flickering, spent several minutes on the phone talking to someone, and then told me that... they refuse to work on my TV!

Essentially, they said they dont know of a guaranteed fix. I showed them the bulletin, and they still said they would not work on it because it was a cash job and they're not willing to risk it not working. I asked if Sony was covering it would they work on it, and they just said they'd be surprised if Sony would agree to that. Thats it. They wouldnt give me anything in writing, they wouldnt discuss things being different if I wasnt paying, nothing. Nice huh? That after spending five hours waiting for the service guy to show up.

Oh, yeah, they said I should be happy that I wasnt being charged for the service call! We'll see what Sony says tomorrow.

[ToeCutter]

I just got an HD tivo last friday to go with my kp-61HS10 that I've had for years, got the flickering like the rest of you, and have spent a bunch of time on the phone with Sony trying to get help on this. We've escalated all through levels 1 and 2 and to a supervisor, who finally agreed to help me work something out. I have to admit, so far, I've been very impressed with the quality of the Sony tech folks. This isnt to say they've ponied up a solution that was acceptable, but that they were very polite, well spoken, and had answers to questions. Good job on that part Sony!

So, tonight I had Precision Television from Pleasant Hill show up to look at the TV. They looked at the flickering, spent several minutes on the phone talking to someone, and then told me that... they refuse to work on my TV!

Essentially, they said they dont know of a guaranteed fix. I showed them the bulletin, and they still said they would not work on it because it was a cash job and they're not willing to risk it not working. I asked if Sony was covering it would they work on it, and they just said they'd be surprised if Sony would agree to that. Thats it. They wouldnt give me anything in writing, they wouldnt discuss things being different if I wasnt paying, nothing. Nice huh? That after spending five hours waiting for the service guy to show up.

Oh, yeah, they said I should be happy that I wasnt being charged for the service call! We'll see what Sony says tomorrow.

Sounds like Precision Television are total amateurs.

I had the very same problem with the very same Sony set. I emailed the tech bulletin to a Sony service in Toledo (I live in Southern Michigan), a week later they showed up with the resistors required for the job. They soldered the new resistors to the A board right at my kitchen table, popped it back in and viola, no more sync issues.

Dump those "Precision" jokers and shop around for a decent repair shop. The fix isn't that hard to implement and should take less than an hour. All we're talking here is replacing a few resistors and re-installing the board. Sony's worthless helping with this problem. The tech that fixed my set explained that his Sony rep didn't have a clue what he was talking about even after he showed him the tech bulletin!

Don't expect much help from Sony on this one. I walked this one through myself, start to finish. I'm not sure why you're so impressed with their response? Your set still isn't syncing, no? They might talk nice on the phone, but talk is cheap when your set's not working!

Shame on Sony.....

[double_del]

I posted previously in this thread I am having the sync problem or at least I was. I had the problems with a Hughes HIRD 8E and with the HD 250. The Hughes receiver has gone bad. I returned the HD 250 and got a a DTV H10. Now I am not experiencing the sync issues. I guess only certain receivers bring out this problem.

[Dante93gtz]

Just another "It works" post. We had this problem on a Sony KB-65XBR10W and had a local TV repair shop apply the fix mentioned in this thread. All flickering problems are now gone and picture works great.

[jstoddard]

Well I am 0 for 2 in replacing the A board. Tech came back out today with a supposedly modified A board direct from Sony. Looking at the board it appeared to have some but not all the modifications done already. Put the board in and same flickering problems. He attempted to make some of the other required changes and now the new board no longer works...

Trying to get my tech on the phone with John @ Sony who has agreed to pay for the repair.

My guess is that the next stop is to have the tech make the modifications to my existing board. No date scheduled for that yet... Very frustrating. :mad:

Jeff

I had a service tech out today to replace my A-board in my KP-53HS10 which is suffering this problem. They ordered an A-board directly from Sony rather than try to modify my existing A-board. New board was put in and suffered just as bad as my original A-board. Back to the drawing board - repair company is going to talk to Sony as they believed that Sony's stock of replacement A-boards had been updated already. They'll either bring a new A-board or the parts to do a fix on my existing board.

Anyone had any luck with putting in a new A-board and it fixing the problem?

Jeff

[bobn]

But, it was a trip. We bought the service manual, located all the affected components on the A board layout, trekked up to Radio Shack and had second thoughts.

We drew out the circuit, before and after. Our 2002 model of the KP-53HS10 had the 1K chip at R600 meaning the previous bulletin #442 had been implemented. Third Thoughts!

The second step from the last on our copy of #442R3 is just wrong. Do not remove Q552. (Any service bulletin that makes it to Revision three means the problem has been around too long!) Some way this step survived from a previous version or crept in at 2AM when the tech was doing the paper work to finish an overdue project. Without Q522 the YGout don't make it back to the YGin. ****ake Mushroom, baby!

Don't attempt this without a service manual, temperature controlled soldering iron, very fine solder and a large magnifiying glass. A large jar of expensive scottish whiskey is a plus. Hoover Dam, Guys and Gals.

On our second day now with no 1080i resets. Cleaning the lenses really helps. Glad it's done. Would not do it again! We were very lucky! The Lord surely watches over old fools.

Grandma and Grandpa

[CMC#5]

Well I'm still at it. Sony keeps telling me they wont cover it, but I keep having to talk to a level 2 tech that is very polite but doesnt seem to be making any progress. They have yet to find a service company in my area that has done this. I think I'll give them a few more days and then call back and try to escalate to another level.

Its really weird how some folks here have gotten Sony to pay for parts, some have gotten them to send a new board, some have gotten the whole thing covered...you'd think by now Sony would figure it out and have one solid policy that avoids continuing to head down the road to a class action lawsuit...

[Suirk]

Like many others, I'm glad I found this thread. I've got a 53HS10 that's had the sync problem from the day I first hooked up my HD STB - been 'putting up with it' for a while now and glad to see there may be a cure. So, I called the dealer I bought it from and told them what I've learned about this issue. Since the TV is beyond warranty they said they wouldn't do anything with out me talking to Sony first. Then I called Sony (Canada) where they talked around the issue and basically said I need a tech to send them an estimate of the repair before they would make any decision about covering it. So I had a tech come out and take a look. He knew about the problem, said he had performed the fix once before and it worked, and would give Sony the details. I spoke with Sony yesterday and was told they received the info and are now 'investigating' the case. I can only guess what that means... I'll post an update when I receive the verdict.

BTW, the way the tech explained the issue to me was that the DTV input on this TV has a circut that scans the incoming signal to determine if it is 1080i/480p. So when the TV percieves a change in signal, the scanning circuit kicks in and does it's thing. What the fix does is slows the reaction time for this circuit. So basically, when there is a sudden change in the incoming signal, it hesitates before rescanning - long enough for the signal to re-establish itself without ever triggering the scan.

[Suirk]

Update: Sony agreed to cover the parts ($23) and labour ($120) for the repair. I just need to cover the initial service call ($70). Parts are on order, hopefully get it all fixed in a week.

[Revo]

Update: Sony agreed to cover the parts ($23) and labour ($120) for the repair. I just need to cover the initial service call ($70). Parts are on order, hopefully get it all fixed in a week.

Suirk, I live in Montreal and just hooked up my KP-53HS10 to Videotron's Explorer 8300HD (Scientic Atlanta) decoder and I get the same sync/flicker problem everyone else has in 1024i on Video 5. I'm really pissed. Of course, my TV is out of warranty.

Can you tell me the phone number you called/person you talked to at Sony to get them to pay for the repair? Moreover, I suppose (by the price of the parts) that they are not replacing the whole board right? Can you tell us what has happened so far and if the repair worked?

[goldenrule123]

In a local newspaper, someone down the road wants to sell the above TV for $200. I've never had a large TV before, and don't know too much about them. he mentions the TV comes on and plays perfect for a few minutes and then looses the picture, the audio remains on. From these symptoms, can anyone offer input on what part or parts are needed? It was manufactured in 2000. Any help would be appreciated. I sure don't want to spend $200 on the TV and then find out it costs $2000 to repair! Any input is appreciated. I've read quite a few threads here before I posted and seen the "A" board is mentioned frequently.

[Suirk]

Update:

I had the repair done on Friday and based on what I've seen so far, it appears to have fixed the sync/flicker problem. That said, with the holidays I haven't had much of a chance to do some serious TV watching. I'll know for sure in a few days.

They didn't replace the A board, just made the changes to the existing board. The technician didn't remove the board, just slid out the chassis and did the work practically lying on his back. Took him a little more than an hour to do.

Unfortunately I have discovered a problem since the repair. I also have a HTPC hooked up to my TV, outputting a 480p signal into Vid 5. Since the repair was made, my TV no longer recognizes the 480p signal. So while my HD problems seem to have been resolved, I now have to get the technician out again to see what may have gone wrong and caused this new issue. While I may be happy that my HD problems are cured, I'm not going to be happy if loosing 480p is the trade off.

Has anyone else seen or heard of this?

Revo: I called Sony @ 1-877-899-7669 and spoke to Carolyn. She was pretty good about the whole thing, but stressed a number of times that Sony didn't really have to cover the costs and that this was a 'customer courtesy' gesture...

[pinballfan]

Since the repair was made, my TV no longer recognizes the 480p signal. So while my HD problems seem to have been resolved, I now have to get the technician out again to see what may have gone wrong and caused this new issue. While I may be happy that my HD problems are cured, I'm not going to be happy if loosing 480p is the trade off.

Has anyone else seen or heard of this?


I didn't have any 480p video sources back when I made the modification (very early in this thread). Since then I upgraded my DVD player to one that could do progressive scan.

Unfortunately I seem to get intermittant sync issues with it. For watching DVDs I don't find the picture all that much better so I haven't done anything about it. The upconversion for 480i to 960i is pretty good. I'd say the 480p picture looks different, but not that much better.

I have no way to know if this problem existed before I made the mods or not.

-- Doug

[madgrizzle]

Sears came out today to look at my set. I have 16 days left on the 5-year extended warranty so I'm getting it fixed just in the nick of time. They are having a new A-board shipped in from Sony. Will report back as to whether the A-board they ship fixes the flickering problem. The repair man basically didn't want to do the work himself due to the difficulty.

[Suirk]

Post fix update:

After some serious HD watching I've concluded that the fix has eliminated my 1080i sync issues.

As for 480p, I'm pretty sure the fix changes how the set processes these signals. I was able to eliminate my 480p sync issues by tweaking the video settings on my HTPC. This may have meant that my PC wasn't sending a perfect signal to begin with, and if that's the case I can't blame the TV. Regardless, I'd recommend anyone getting this fix done to test both signal types (if you need them) with the technician present to make sure this isn't a problem for you. Since both pinballfan and I noticed a problem with 480p after the fix, I'd hate for someone to get stuck with a similar problem.

The bottom line: I'm satisfied and my wife is happy - which when it comes down to justifying my next 'toy' purchase, is what really matters :-)

[keefer37]

Man, I gotta get on getting my TV fixed. Do I just call a tech locally and then Sony or vice versa?

[Suirk]

Man, I gotta get on getting my TV fixed. Do I just call a tech locally and then Sony or vice versa?

If it's under warranty then call your dealer. Otherwise I'd call Sony first, they will advise you how to proceed. If you are not under warranty you will surely want to talk to them first to see if they will even cover the repair. Many of us have been through the process (with different experiences) with Sony so as long as you have read all the postings in this group you should be well aware of what may or may not happen. Best of luck!

[gicu]

I read the whole thread and I probably have the same problem,but after messing with the service aria numbers from the DSP to the PJE and more,I can't even see anything more than pixels and shadows,on the video5 only,all others Video1 through Video4 are fine.I even switched the DishNet HD receivers to no avail.So my request is for anyone that has the same tv can you PLEASE look up your setting in your service screen and e-mail me the numbers even a little bit at a time.Thanks in advance to any help...
P.S. I downloaded the service manual but the settings are all zeroes for the majority and that's no help.

[ANSEK]

I read the whole thread and I probably have the same problem,but after messing with the service aria numbers from the DSP to the PJE and more,I can't even see anything more than pixels and shadows,on the video5 only,all others Video1 through Video4 are fine.I even switched the DishNet HD receivers to no avail.So my request is for anyone that has the same tv can you PLEASE look up your setting in your service screen and e-mail me the numbers even a little bit at a time.Thanks in advance to any help...
P.S. I downloaded the service manual but the settings are all zeroes for the majority and that's no help.

More than happy to help. If you post which set of numbers you seek is will post back my unaltered settings.

[Jaboo]

I'm sure glad this thread has helped people. I know it's been nice not having to deal with that sync problem. Now I just need a new TV!

[fwarren]

I have the same flicker/blanking/sync problem with my Sony 53HS10 (early model) probably 9 years old. I have had Sears out twice for repair. This time they said they have no Sony 442R3 bulletin and no notice from Sony that there is a problem. The A Board problem is such a known problem, i don't know why Sears knows nothing about it. Can anyone send my ANYTHING that Sears will recognize: the service bulletin, a notice of Sony repair, anything? My Sears warranty expires next month. I used to have teh 442R3 link but it no longer out ther. Thanks for the help.

[Slipshod]

I have the same flicker/blanking/sync problem with my Sony 53HS10 (early model) probably 9 years old. I have had Sears out twice for repair. This time they said they have no Sony 442R3 bulletin and no notice from Sony that there is a problem. The A Board problem is such a known problem, i don't know why Sears knows nothing about it. Can anyone send my ANYTHING that Sears will recognize: the service bulletin, a notice of Sony repair, anything? My Sears warranty expires next month. I used to have teh 442R3 link but it no longer out ther. Thanks for the help.

Wow. I didn't realize so many other people had run into this problem. I have since gotten rid of my 53HS10, but had successfully had it repaired prior to selling it. There is a Sony TSB on the issue - I found it over a year ago in a thread on some website. The TSB listed the parts necessary, and I ordered them from an online supply house. One of the hardware techs at work was good with surface-mount reworks, so I asked him to do the work for me. Had to take out the mainboard on the TV (I think it's the "A" board) and then he soldered on the parts and the problem completely disappeared. I could watch CSI without it losing sync every time they flashed white.

I'll try to dig up the information, but it's been a long time...

[Slipshod]

Well, I found the info, but I can't post links because I don't have enough posts on this forum. :rolleyes: Gotta love spammers.

Search for "TVP0442.PDF 508.html?1115907328" on google and it should take you to the correct page, the second one from the top. TVP0442.PDF is the filename of the TSB, and it looks like it's called "Sony service bulletin 442R3".

Cheers.

[fwarren]

Slipshod:
Thank you so very much. I had looked eveywhere and could not find the Sony Service Bulletin.

I will hand this to my Sears repair and see i f he fixes it this time. It's really annoying! Thank you again for your help!

What a great Forum!

/s/ Floyd

[scastria]

I got the 442R3 bulletin and attempted to apply the fix to my KP65XBR10W TV since I experienced the exact problems after connecting my new Series 3 TiVO. I went through each of the steps and here is what I did:

1. C693 (my A board already had the correct value capacitor)
2. C694 (my A board already had the correct value capacitor)
3. C696 (my A board already had the correct value capacitor)
4. R600 (my A board already had a 0 ohm resistor short)
5. Q553 (my A board already had this transistor removed)

Here is where my work started:

6. R698 - I removed the resistor which was a 4.7k ohm
7. C638 - I swapped the surface mount component with a ceramic .1uf, RS part 272-135, Radio Shack was out of 272-109
8. Q552 - I removed the transistor
9. Used the R698 4.7k ohm resistor to connect B and E of where Q552 used to be. I realize this is not the 470 ohm value required, but I hoped it would work anyway since it was a surface mount component


My Video 5 does not work at all right now. I have seen one guy post that we shouldn't remove Q552, but then how could we do step 9? I will change the 4.7k ohm surface mount resistor for step 9 with a 470 ohm regular resistor and see if that works. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[scastria]

It was indeed the 4.7k ohm surface mount resistor that I used instead of 470 ohm. I replaced it with a regular Radio Shack 470 ohm 1/4 watt resistor and I am flicker free!

[LKelmar]

I have the Sony KP-65XBR10W (got it from my Dad two years ago) and was waiting for the Tivo Series 3 because I could not bear going to a Comcast DVR/HD box. I have run into the same flickering problem and was so glad to find this thread. Talk about the power of Web 2.0!

Spend the required hour on the phone to Sony this morning and finally got to a Tier 2 technician who was not able to find the Service Bulletin 442R3. That makes me kinda nervous when I am quoting the document to the guy who is supposed to be the product expert. Anyway, I ended up at the same place as many other folks as I will have a technician coming out on Monday and if they determine that Sony's design error is at fault then Sony will pay for the repair. I am still stuck with paying for the evaluation though.

Looking forward to flicker free HD! Thanks for all the help on this board.

[fritolayguy]

I have the KP-61HS10, and I started experiencing the flicker on my set as soon as I connected the TIVO Series 3. Up until now, we haven't seen it as a huge issue, but I see the possibility of getting it permanently fixed as a good thing.....

Question, though....why didn't the TV do the same thing with the Mediacom Motorola DVR attached? Both connections are component connections, yet this never occurred with the DVR....Any thoughts?

[pinballfan]

...why didn't the TV do the same thing with the Mediacom Motorola DVR attached? Both connections are composite connections, yet this never occurred with the DVR....Any thoughts?

I don't have a good answer why, but I can tell you that others have observed the same thing. I originally watched HD via a Sony HD-100 set-top-box. It too uses component video connections. It never produced this flicker effect.

I don't think it was ever clear exactly why the Sony and Tivo don't get along. My guess would be that the Tivos are sending out a slightly broader range of video signals that the Sony thinks are normal, thus causing the Sony to drop into resync mode.

-- Doug

[fritolayguy]

I don't have a good answer why, but I can tell you that others have observed the same thing. I originally watched HD via a Sony HD-100 set-top-box. It too uses component video connections. It never produced this flicker effect.

I don't think it was ever clear exactly why the Sony and Tivo don't get along. My guess would be that the Tivos are sending out a slightly broader range of video signals that the Sony thinks are normal, thus causing the Sony to drop into resync mode.

-- Doug
I read over the 442R3 service bulletin from Sony about this TV, and it outlines that it is "certain brand DTV receivers" are the causes of the issue. That being said, I hope Sony does not look at it as a TIVO problem.....!!!!

How can I be sure that my warranty will still cover the repairs? I have seen some indications that this is not an inexpensive procedure (upwards of $600)....?

[fritolayguy]

Update:

Talked to the company that was contacted to do the warranty work on my set. I explained the problem, gave them the number for the Sony internal memo that outlines the mod to be made to the a-board to fix the issue, described set up with TIVO S3....

First thing after mentioning TIVO--"Sounds like a TIVO problem, we can't help you with that." I end up sending the PDF file of the SONY memo to the tech so that they can look it over. I don't foresee this ending well.

They commented that they would look at the memo, but if it was anything too complicated, they would have to call SONY for direction.....

[fritolayguy]

Update part II----

The contractor for my service called me back today to let me know they will be replacing the "A" board in my TV. SONY approved the warranty work, so obstacle #1 has been removed!

They are coming to pick it up Monday, and anticipate 3-5 days to receive the new board. They have assured me that the new board has the necessary modifications to eliminate the issue.

I will update the status after the new board has been installed.

Thanks to all that have posted your experiences, they have helped greatly in anticipating potential issues.

:D

[Quank]

Hi guys... I'm getting the same problem but before I call Sony:

1) I can't find the Service Bulletin anywhere. The links I've found are out of date.
2) It's 2007 and I bought my TV in 2000! Is Sony really going to repair it? I know it's out of warranty, but it also looks like a design flaw that most customers didn't notice until years later because of not having hdtv source material...

[Quank]

For anyone finding this thread via a Google search like it did, here is a link to the service bulletin: http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/4361/TVP0442-607.pdf

[fritolayguy]

So had the TV company here today, they installed a brand new board from Sony, and voila---same issue. :mad: :mad: :mad:

We've been without the TV for a month waiting on this issue, and we are willing to live with the small inconvenience at this point. :down:

Oh well, no sense worrying about it at this point. We will be buying a new TV in next year or two, and we'll buy a TV that has HDMI in the future, and the issue will be gone....

[fritolayguy]

Well, the service tech just left the house, and the sync issue has been resolved!

TV is now operating the way I had hoped all along. The tech had to do a lot of work on the picture and the settings after replacing the board, but it appears that the screen jitter/sync issues are gone.

Glad to post another success story, and let others know there is hope. Thank goodness for the extended warranty...cost me $500 -- repairs to the TV would have been in the $1800-$2000 range over the past 3 years. :up:

[JohnDG]

The tech had to do a lot of work on the picture and the settings after replacing the board, but it appears that the screen jitter/sync issues are gone.

Can you be more specific? I'm curious as to what needed to be done to the set's settings after the board was installed, but before the problem was fixed.

jdg

[fritolayguy]

Can you be more specific? I'm curious as to what needed to be done to the set's settings after the board was installed, but before the problem was fixed.

jdg

The board was definitely the root cause of the jitter issue. Once the board had been modified to the specs on the latest service bulletin (according to the vendor, there have been 4 updates to the original service bulletin that was issued in 2001) the jitter was gone. The tech then had to do a lot of changes to the service settings (eliminating convergence issues, and clearing up color issues with the picture) to get the picture correct before he was finished. Didn't mean to imply that anything other than the board needed to be modified to eliminate the jitter issue.

[Widgetflyer]

Glad to hear you've got it repaired. I've got the same problem, however, I don't have an extended warranty. Any clues from the repair tech as to the actual cost of the repair if not under warranty? The earlier posts were helpful, but they were a few years ago, and the cost to repair it has obviously changed. I didn't notice it until I hooked up my HR10-250. I wonder if the HR20 HD DVR's would cause the same problem? I would hate to move my Tivo unit, but buying a new HR20 might be cheaper if it works. (I already know about the software/hardware issues unfortunately.) Any suggestions?

[fritolayguy]

Glad to hear you've got it repaired. I've got the same problem, however, I don't have an extended warranty. Any clues from the repair tech as to the actual cost of the repair if not under warranty? Any suggestions?

From what I gathered from the vendor, the board is about $600, and the labor was $275 (these were the figures from the invoice that the vendor submitted to Circuit City.

If you know of someone that can make the modifications to the board, that might be a more cost effective alternative.

Just my 2c

[hansangb]

The board was definitely the root cause of the jitter issue. Once the board had been modified to the specs on the latest service bulletin (according to the vendor, there have been 4 updates to the original service bulletin that was issued in 2001) the jitter was gone. The tech then had to do a lot of changes to the service settings (eliminating convergence issues, and clearing up color issues with the picture) to get the picture correct before he was finished. Didn't mean to imply that anything other than the board needed to be modified to eliminate the jitter issue.


For what it's worth, I don't have a Tivo. I actually stumbled on this site because I have an XBR300 (65") model. I have the sync issue with 1080I on component/video 5 input.

I called Sony and argued that - although I purchased the unit in 2000 - the problem was PRE EXISTING! I quoted the TVP0442-607 service bulletin, but they couldn't it find it by the old service number. To make a long story short, they agreed that I would pay for the initial visit by a tech. If it turned out to be this issue, they would pay for the fix. Of course, this was the problem and Sony paid for the repair. The tech just did what was on the service bulletin and my problems are now gone! Anyway, I'm posting in case some has the same issue.

[pogopogo]

For anyone who stumbles across this thread via Google, I have found another possible solution to the loss of sync problem on these sets.

I was reading the Sony service bulletin and noticed the loss of sync only occurred with component video. Since I have a KP-53HS10 with RGBHV inputs I thought I might try a component to VGA converter to see if it would eliminate the problem.

IT WORKED! :)

I used a Key Digital KD-CTCA3 component to VGA converter with a HD-15 to 5 BNC RGB Video Cable with 5 BNC to RCA adapters.

I set the Video 5 input to RGB in the menu and the loss of sync problem was completely eliminated from my TiVo S3.

[fritolayguy]

I used a Key Digital KD-CTCA3 component to VGA converter with a HD-15 to 5 BNC RGB Video Cable with 5 BNC to RCA adapters.

I set the Video 5 input to RGB in the menu and the loss of sync problem was completely eliminated from my TiVo S3.

Glad to hear there is a fix for those who don't have the warranty coverage I had.

After looking at the setup (Googled the part name and went to Ram Electronics website), seems like it would take minimal time and investment to add the converter to current setup.

What was the overall cost of the fix?

[pogopogo]

What was the overall cost of the fix?

I bought the converter for $90 and I already had the cable and BNC to RCA converters.

At MonoPrice the converters are $1.50 each and the cable is $8. So the total should be around $100 for all the parts. There are cheaper component to VGA converters that would probably work just as well.

I'm happy because I didn't want to spend $200 to repair a seven year old TV. Also, when my set finally dies I'm sure I can resell the converter.

[JohnDG]

For anyone who stumbles across this thread via Google, I have found another possible solution to the loss of sync problem on these sets.

I was reading the Sony service bulletin and noticed the loss of sync only occurred with component video. Since I have a KP-53HS10 with RGBHV inputs I thought I might try a component to VGA converter to see if it would eliminate the problem.

IT WORKED! :)

I used a Key Digital KD-CTCA3 component to VGA converter with a HD-15 to 5 BNC RGB Video Cable with 5 BNC to RCA adapters.

I set the Video 5 input to RGB in the menu and the loss of sync problem was completely eliminated from my TiVo S3.

$90? <sigh> I couldn't find this for less than $350.

BTW: that converter at http://www.ambery.com/covitovgaco.html does not work with the HS10.

jdg

[pogopogo]

$90? <sigh> I couldn't find this for less than $350.

They occasionally come up for sale on eBay for $100. I got lucky and bought one locally from a friend.

I did buy a cheaper Key Digital XBlaster off eBay for $30. I'll try it and let you know if it works.

[zielinab]

For anyone who stumbles across this thread via Google, I have found another possible solution to the loss of sync problem on these sets.

I was reading the Sony service bulletin and noticed the loss of sync only occurred with component video. Since I have a KP-53HS10 with RGBHV inputs I thought I might try a component to VGA converter to see if it would eliminate the problem.

IT WORKED! :)

I used a Key Digital KD-CTCA3 component to VGA converter with a HD-15 to 5 BNC RGB Video Cable with 5 BNC to RCA adapters.

I set the Video 5 input to RGB in the menu and the loss of sync problem was completely eliminated from my TiVo S3.

I too found this thread with Google. I was also able to confirm that this fix works.

Cost:
Key Digital KD-CTCA3: $56 + $6.50 shipping (on eBay) = $62.50
Steren 253-606IV VGA to RGB H/V 5-Component Video Cable: $8.99 + $6.55 shipping (Buy-dot-com) = $15.54
Total: $78.04

Being able to watch HD again: Priceless :)

Oh, and FWIW, my TV is a Sony KP-61XBR300, and I don't have a Tivo, just an HD-DVR from the cable co.

[thegeedwun]

has anyone used an external Video Stabalizer to resolve the flicker issue? i have seen consumer models from $50 - $200 dollars. i was looking at this one:

"GREX" by xdimax - check their website.



note the component video setup. the idea is that video sync comes over the green cable. note with the new OEM HD recievers from DirecTV, I do not see the problem. its just not TiVo :-(

[YankeeRudi]

I too found this thread with Google. I was also able to confirm that this fix works.

Cost:
Key Digital KD-CTCA3: $56 + $6.50 shipping (on eBay) = $62.50
Steren 253-606IV VGA to RGB H/V 5-Component Video Cable: $8.99 + $6.55 shipping (Buy-dot-com) = $15.54
Total: $78.04

Being able to watch HD again: Priceless :)

Oh, and FWIW, my TV is a Sony KP-61XBR300, and I don't have a Tivo, just an HD-DVR from the cable co.

I have just been quoted $360.00 for fixing my A Board by a certified Sony service center (this includes coming to my house, removing the board, taking the board back to their shop, upgrading the board and re-installing the board back at my house). Does that appear reasonable? I have the KP-53HS10 Sony unit.

I like the idea of the "non-invasive" solution of using the Component Video to VGA converter. However, I have not been able to find the Key Digital KD-CTCA3 (or its replacement product KD-VA5) for under $100.00. I tried eBay already. Where could I find one for less than $100.00. The unit available on eBay is the Ambery unit, which apparently does not work with my H10 TV.

Rudi

[pinballfan]

$360 seems pretty reasonable to me given what is being done (2 service calls to the house that require reasonably skilled techs, plus the actual shop work on the board). Assuming it is a reputable shop that will take care of things if they break something, I can't see them charging a much less.

I can't say much about finding other external solutions and what they cost. Obviously if you find one that is cheaper, that would be great.

I think the only real question is if that set is worth spending that much money on. I can't recall the specs on that model, but I suspect that like my KP-57XBR10W it doesn't have HDMI support. At some point that is probably going to be an issue. If it is 4x3 instead of 16x9 that might be another reason to consider an upgrade.

Just my 2 cents... Good luck!

[YankeeRudi]

$90? <sigh> I couldn't find this for less than $350.

BTW: that converter at http://www.ambery.com/covitovgaco.html does not work with the HS10.

jdg

I am looking into the possibility of solving my Sony KP-53HS10 flicker problem with the non-invasive solution of using the external converter. The only ones I now find on eBay that are under $100.00 are the Ambery that you mentioned did not work. What was the problem with your unit?

I have also found another one that appears to be sold by the same company (under a separate user name on eBay), but this unit has dip-switches that gives the user more flexibility to manually set some of the parameters.

Rudi

[JohnDG]

I am looking into the possibility of solving my Sony KP-53HS10 flicker problem with the non-invasive solution of using the external converter. The only ones I now find on eBay that are under $100.00 are the Ambery that you mentioned did not work. What was the problem with your unit?
Rudi

It wouldn't sync-up the signal from the TiVo into the Sony correctly. It's fuzzy, but I believe that 480i had lines on the top and bottom; 1080i didn't work at all. IIRC, somebody tested the other unit referenced on the Sony and it worked.

I haven't bought the more expensive component yet, as this is not really a big issue for me -- and the wiring was going to be a real pain. For the few programs where this is an issue, I route the output thru a DVD-R. True: not 1080i, but at the distance that I watch from, it's acceptable -- pretty much at the same level as anamorphic DVDs.

And, once the new HD channel overload gets too great, I'm also looking to upgrade the display to handle a HR20 (in addition to the HR10! -- I still need that wishlist functionality and greater than 50 SPs!) in the near future.

jdg

[YankeeRudi]

Here is an update for anyone interested. I have solved the flicker problem on my Sony KP-53HS10 in the non-invasive way. I had decide to test one of the solutions proposed by some on this thread.

I purchased the "HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV Converter 720p/1080i" and a "STEREN 253-606IV 6' VGA TO 5 COMPONENT VIDEO CABLE" on eBay and this solved my problem. Here are the items I bought on eBay:

HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV Converter 720p/1080i:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=260161511226
Price: $87.95 + $16.50 shipping

STEREN 253-606IV 6' VGA TO 5 COMPONENT VIDEO CABLE:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSAA:US:11&Item=330163227263
Price: $6.89 + $9.79 shipping

The Converter has two settings for the output, one for YPbPr and one for RGB. Here is what my experience is so far with the converter when playing back a 1 hour program (from Fox) recorded on my DVR:

- When my DVR is connected directly to the TV via Component Video, I had at least 10 flickers during the program.
- When I connect the DVR via the converter using the YPbPr setting (and only using the YPbPr on the Steren cable to my TV), I only had one flicker during the entire program.
- When I connect the DVR via the converter using the RGB setting (and using all 5 connectors on the Steren cable to my TV), I did not have any flicker during the entire program. In order for the TV to work with this setup, I had to change the TV setting for the "DTV INPUT" from YPbPr to RGB.

I have had the converter installed since yesterday and have watched a lot of football today and have not had any flickering again. The graphics "flashes" on the football games always created a lot of flickers on our TV.

This is a far cheaper solution than having to fix the A board on the Sony for which I was quoted $360.

Rudi

[krs7272]

Thanks Yankee for the $120 I think I'm just going to go that route. Cheapest option

[gumbo1]

Thanks Yankee-- I have been waiting 5 years for a non- invasive solution to the flicker problem on my Sony KP-65XBR10W.
. How do you change the TV setting for the "DTV INPUT" from YPbPr to RGB?

Chuck

[YankeeRudi]

Thanks Yankee-- I have been waiting 5 years for a non- invasive solution to the flicker problem on my Sony KP-65XBR10W.
. How do you change the TV setting for the "DTV INPUT" from YPbPr to RGB?

Chuck
I have a KP-53HS10 Sony. I did find the manual for your TV online and the menu on your TV is the same as mine. Here are the steps:
- On your remote, click on Menu
- The first screen will appear (Video)
- Using the joystick on the remote, move the cursor to the last selection on the left hand side menu and click on the joystick
- The Setup screen will appear
- Use the joystick to move down to the "DTV INPUT" and click on the joystick
- Select the RGB instead of the YPbPr

I hope that this will help you.

Rudi

[gumbo1]

Great news! I connected the converter and cable discussed in Yankee's post between my HR10 250 and KP-65XBR10W Sony. I tried both RGB and YPbPr settings the last few days and have not had any flicker problems on either one. For about a hundred bucks the problem appears solved and flicker free football is great! Thanks again Yankee. Chuck

[lsutton]

I can't believe I found this post! I just hooked up my Hr10-250 to a Sony KP-53HS10 and had the same issue. I thought it was an issue with the tivo cause I bought it off Ebay. Thanks for the cheap work around YankeeRudi, but I do have one questions:

The component video connections for RGB, but what is the V&H used for? I see on the back of my tv inputs for VD and HD, I assume they go there.

[YankeeRudi]

I can't believe I found this post! I just hooked up my Hr10-250 to a Sony KP-53HS10 and had the same issue. I thought it was an issue with the tivo cause I bought it off Ebay. Thanks for the cheap work around YankeeRudi, but I do have one questions:

The component video connections for RGB, but what is the V&H used for? I see on the back of my tv inputs for VD and HD, I assume they go there.

If you can get the exact items that I bought from ebay, the cable will have VGA on one end and the 5 RCA connectors on the other. The VD and HD connections are for the vertical and horizontal synchronization.

I just checked on ebay and the items I purchased are available:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HDTV-Component-Video-to-VGA-RGBHV-Converter-720p-1080i_W0QQitemZ260173082753QQihZ016QQcategoryZ79863QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREN-253-606IV-6-VGA-TO-5-COMPONENT-VIDEO-CABLE-NEW_W0QQitemZ330175060911QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64631QQrdZ1QQssP ageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Rudi

[ronenbu]

If you can get the exact items that I bought from ebay, the cable will have VGA on one end and the 5 RCA connectors on the other. The VD and HD connections are for the vertical and horizontal synchronization.

I just checked on ebay and the items I purchased are available:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HDTV-Component-Video-to-VGA-RGBHV-Converter-720p-1080i_W0QQitemZ260173082753QQihZ016QQcategoryZ79863QQssPageN ameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/STEREN-253-606IV-6-VGA-TO-5-COMPONENT-VIDEO-CABLE-NEW_W0QQitemZ330175060911QQihZ014QQcategoryZ64631QQrdZ1QQssP ageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Rudi

Rudi, this is unbelievable! thanks so much for the information - I have the exact same setup - same TV but with TIVO HD and went through 2 tivo units and 2 cable cards thinking it was the tivo which causing the same problems as noted here! just googled for the model number and tivo - and what do you know, its not just me... thanks again for the information I'm going to order the same things you had and see if it fixes the problem. If not, then I will open my TV (which I have done before to remove the anti-glare plastic screen and perform calibration) and do the A board fix...

thanks much!

[YankeeRudi]

Update:

It has been a month since I purchased and installed the "HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV Converter 720p/1080i" and a "STEREN 253-606IV 6' VGA TO 5 COMPONENT VIDEO CABLE" and I am still happy with the solution. I have had NO flickers since then. This solution definitively works!

Rudi

[lsutton]

My cable just arrived can't wait to try it out. I will keep you posted.

[JohnDG]

Has anyone run into this problem with an HR20/HR21?

jdg

[ronenbu]

Just ordered the same setup as YankeeRudi did and eagerly waiting to get it so I can get rid of this unbelievable problem once and for it - with some HD content its not watchable like that...

[lsutton]

Hooked everything up this w/e with no flickering problems to speak of. This work around is the way to go. thanks again Rudi.

[ronenbu]

Received the cable and converterer last night, hooked everything up and no flickering, lost of sync or black screen what so ever! Rudy - you are the guy! :) thanks again for finding this solution!

I wonder if you guys have any observations about the signal quality - I couldn't tell if there is any difference with this setup compared to hooking component straight up even in 1080i, but I think it might be a little softer picture, what do you think?

[jhearn]

This fix didn't work for me, but then my problem was with the XBOX 360 losing sync at 1080i. I have basically a new HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV Converter 720p/1080i and a STEREN 253-606IV 6' VGA TO 5 COMPONENT VIDEO CABLE that I would like to unload to someone who could use them.

I ordered a rebuilt A board from PTS Electronics and replaced it myself, which solved my problem.

Jack

[187]

This fix didn't work for me, but then my problem was with the XBOX 360 losing sync at 1080i. I have basically a new HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV Converter 720p/1080i and a STEREN 253-606IV 6' VGA TO 5 COMPONENT VIDEO CABLE that I would like to unload to someone who could use them.

I ordered a rebuilt A board from PTS Electronics and replaced it myself, which solved my problem.

Jack

I'm interested. I sent you a PM. Please let me know if you still have them.

[juran]

wow! can't believe i found this thread!!

I have been looking for 61hs10 info.

I have one bought in 2001, i need the service manual and details to open it and get at the guns.

I have to move it up a flight of stairs around a banister. i figure removing the screen and the projecter is my only shot.

I love my TV but it has been in storage 2 years as well. it needs a cleaning and an adjustment.

any tips, docs, screenshots or useful link will help.

please email them to juran_101 at yahoo . com...

I will try the flicker fix as well, i figure if i have it open.....

THANKS!

[deltarules2002]

So... all the information here has been very helpful. I believe this weekend I will take apart my KP-65xbr10w and check out the a-board to see how involved the "fix" really is. If I feel that I can't do it myself I'll hopefully get my local TV shop to fix the board. I have a few questions though about the TV and not so much the flicker issue. The TV is from April 2001, and I can guarantee that it has never been opened up and cleaned. The guy I got it from doesn't know much about electronics and their magnetism for dust. Anyway... it needs to be cleaned desperately. I understand that the components inside are sensitive to static, so how should I go about cleaning everything? Can I just take a shop-vac to the inside and suck away all the dust? I don't want to accidentally zap something and have it not work. Also, what's the best way to clean the projector lenses? I would imagine that almost seven years of dust and grime would build up a pretty nasty layer of gunk. How should I clean them without damaging anything? Any help would be greatly appreciated. BTW... I can't believe this thread has been active since 2004. WOW!

[187]

...Can I just take a shop-vac to the inside and suck away all the dust?

I'm not sure if I would do that. I am sure that you can find some recommendations from some AV sites (such as avsforum) and there are probably people here who know more than I do on the subject. However, I have heard that the lenses are very susceptible to scratching and that you should use something like a very soft makeup brush to lightly clean them. Also, some dust is better than a scratch, so be careful.

I tried the non-invasive solution on my nearly 8 year old KP-53HS10 using the cables I bought from jhearn above. I think maybe we got some bad cables (at least we offset the overall loss for each other). All they did was turn the image on the TV completely green. I tried changing the settings on the menu to RGB and I made sure to flip the dip switch on the converter. I even switched back to YPbPr through the converter and still no luck. I plan to try testing the cables on a small LCD TV, but I am not sure what else to do.

I may just live with the flicker until I can replace the TV.

[angfro]

Update:

It has been a month since I purchased and installed the "HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV Converter 720p/1080i" and a "STEREN 253-606IV 6' VGA TO 5 COMPONENT VIDEO CABLE" and I am still happy with the solution. I have had NO flickers since then. This solution definitively works!

Rudi

I have the same problem but I dont have TIVO, this happens when I play my XBOX 360 and when I watch TV ( cablevision ). Would this fix help me also?
And would I need 2 sets of this? Since I have the 360 and my Cable which I need to fix. Thanx!

[187]

I have the same problem but I dont have TIVO, this happens when I play my XBOX 360 and when I watch TV ( cablevision ). Would this fix help me also?
And would I need 2 sets of this? Since I have the 360 and my Cable which I need to fix. Thanx!

Weird. I never have the problem with my 360.

The cables did not work for me. You are more than welcome to them and I will extend the same offer that I received. You can have them for half of what I paid (which was half of the original price). Just send me a PM and we can work out the details if you are interested.

[jhearn]

I'm not sure if I would do that. I am sure that you can find some recommendations from some AV sites (such as avsforum) and there are probably people here who know more than I do on the subject. However, I have heard that the lenses are very susceptible to scratching and that you should use something like a very soft makeup brush to lightly clean them. Also, some dust is better than a scratch, so be careful.

I tried the non-invasive solution on my nearly 8 year old KP-53HS10 using the cables I bought from jhearn above. I think maybe we got some bad cables (at least we offset the overall loss for each other). All they did was turn the image on the TV completely green. I tried changing the settings on the menu to RGB and I made sure to flip the dip switch on the converter. I even switched back to YPbPr through the converter and still no luck. I plan to try testing the cables on a small LCD TV, but I am not sure what else to do.

I may just live with the flicker until I can replace the TV.

When I originally ordered the cable for the converter I accidentally ordered two of them. I will be happy to mail the other set to you if you think that may be the problem. I have no use for it.

Jack

[187]

When I originally ordered the cable for the converter I accidentally ordered two of them. I will be happy to mail the other set to you if you think that may be the problem. I have no use for it.

Jack

Thanks, Jack. I actually decided just to replace the TV. After 8 years, it was time I went wide screen anyway. Maybe angfro would be interested.


And would I need 2 sets of this? Since I have the 360 and my Cable which I need to fix. Thanx!

You shouldn't need two sets. Which TV do you have? My Sony only had one set of component inputs that was for HD signals. So, I have a switch, with both devices going into the switch and then one set of cables going to the TV. The converter was placed between the switch and the TV.

[jhearn]

Thanks, Jack. I actually decided just to replace the TV. After 8 years, it was time I went wide screen anyway. Maybe angfro would be interested.

The flashing drove me to get a new HD panel two years ago with the problem Sony going into the basement for the kids. But something about Halo 3 was causing the flashing problem to show itself too often and the kids were rebelling. PTS Corp www.ptscorp.com quoted 170.00 dollars to bring the "A" circuit board up to the latest revision but they had one in stock so I went that route. Good luck with the the TV.

[187]

The flashing drove me to get a new HD panel two years ago with the problem Sony going into the basement for the kids. But something about Halo 3 was causing the flashing problem to show itself too often and the kids were rebelling. PTS Corp www.ptscorp.com quoted 170.00 dollars to bring the "A" circuit board up to the latest revision but they had one in stock so I went that route. Good luck with the the TV.

Thanks. It's weird that I never had the problem with either my 360 or my 180 (original Xbox). I play a lot of Halo 3 and it never gives me a problem. Of course, we could be on different hardware revisions with one causing the problem to surface and the other one not. It wasn't until I got my Tivo HD that I found out this problem existed with my TV. Oh well. It was time to upgrade anyway.

[krs7272]

I could use the extra set. But lost track of who actually had them offered.

PM me.

[pogopogo]

I purchased the "HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV Converter 720p/1080i"...

I have been away from this thread for a while but I'm glad many people have been able to use the cheaper solution to resolve the flicker problem.

I ordered the RGB converter listed on eBay for a friend and it worked just as well as the Key Digital converter.

I have been using this work around since May 2007 and I have not seen a single flicker since.

[craiz]

I've got a KP-61HS10 and just get a new TiVoHD and I'm experiencing this flicker problem. I want to try a component to vga converter to see if it fixes the problem for me. However, there seems to be some conflicting information regarding them.

YankeeRudi, the converter you purchase on ebay appears to be the same one that JohnDG indicated doesn't work will with the HS10. Are you experiencing any of the issues that he listed? If so, are you just living with it or did you find some way to correct them?

I know this is a long shot, but is anyone willing to let me borrow a converter and cable to see if it works for me? I live in Washington in the Seattle area.

[187]

I've got a KP-61HS10 and just get a new TiVoHD and I'm experiencing this flicker problem. I want to try a component to vga converter to see if it fixes the problem for me. However, there seems to be some conflicting information regarding them.

YankeeRudi, the converter you purchase on ebay appears to be the same one that JohnDG indicated doesn't work will with the HS10. Are you experiencing any of the issues that he listed? If so, are you just living with it or did you find some way to correct them?

I know this is a long shot, but is anyone willing to let me borrow a converter and cable to see if it works for me? I live in Washington in the Seattle area.

I do not live in the Seattle area, so I can't let you borrow them. I have the KP-53HS10 and it did not work for me. I am willing to extend you the same offer that I got when I purchased mine used from Jack. He only charged me half of what he paid which ended up being $60 and change. If you are willing to spend half of that, I will ship the cables to you. Just send me a PM.

[krs7272]

Has anyone run into this problem with an HR20/HR21?

jdg

I just got a HR21 (also still have my TiVo hooked up also) But I have watched a couple of hours now of HD and have yet to see a flicker as the Tivo causes?

[JohnDG]

I just got a HR21 (also still have my TiVo hooked up also) But I have watched a couple of hours now of HD and have yet to see a flicker as the Tivo causes?

I should have followed up on my own message:

I've had a HR21 for about a month with absolutely no problems with the HS10. This includes both the HDNET movie trailer and HD Hockey torture tests.

jdg

[atyclb]

Has anyone run into this problem with an HR20/HR21?

jdg

Howdy y'all. I wanted to sign in here and give you my (success) story. I had been living with the flicker problem with my 53HS10 for a while now, and finally started searching around and found this thread. I have an HR20 and I WAS experiencing the problem. However, I just received my Ambery converter and Steren cable and the problem was FIXED!

Thanks to all for the help (finally!)

[Quank]

Howdy y'all. I wanted to sign in here and give you my (success) story. I had been living with the flicker problem with my 53HS10 for a while now, and finally started searching around and found this thread. I have an HR20 and I WAS experiencing the problem. However, I just received my Ambery converter and Steren cable and the problem was FIXED!

Thanks to all for the help (finally!)

Watching HD playoff hockey is killing me with this flicker problem (and a general low light level while in 1080i mode). I'm using a DirecTV (non-Tivo) receiver. What retailer did you find the best deal on the cables through?

Anyone else experience low light level during 1080i mode?

[JohnDG]

Howdy y'all. I wanted to sign in here and give you my (success) story. I had been living with the flicker problem with my 53HS10 for a while now, and finally started searching around and found this thread. I have an HR20 and I WAS experiencing the problem. However, I just received my Ambery converter and Steren cable and the problem was FIXED!

Thanks to all for the help (finally!)

Note: I've never had this problem on a HR21-700, after constantly having the problem using the HD TiVo. Hockey is the reference.

How old was the HR20?

jdg

[atyclb]

How old was the HR20?

jdg

Got it in March 2007

[atyclb]

What retailer did you find the best deal on the cables through?


I didn't search around--I just found the Steren cables everyone else was using on ebay.

[Jambo]

I've posted elsewhere in this threat about the problems with flicker on my Sony 57KBR10W. After seeing YankeeRudi's post on his fix, I ordered two things off of the internet:

Steren 253-606iv 6' VGA to RGBHV cable (http://www.beachaudio.com/Steren/253-606iv-p-5732.html) -$9.99

Ambery HDTV Component Video to VGA/RGBHV converter (http://www.ambery.com/covitovgaco.html) - $88

Switched the switch on the Ambery box to R-G-B, took out the component cables from the TV and put them into the RGB inputs on the Ambery box. Took the VGA 15-pin from the Steren cable and plugged it into the other side of the box. Plugged the other end of the Steren cable into the back of the RGB on the TV plus the H+V inputs to those corredponding inputs on the Video 5 area. I then set the TV's DTV input to 'RGB' via the onscreen menu (this is an important step) and... VOILA!

No more flicker and no replacing the 'A' board. Ran some high-intensity white scenes through it and it didn't flinch.

Thanks for the suggestion, YankeeRudi. Just like before I got the HR10-250. :)

Jamie

[PaulyJ]

Watching HD playoff hockey is killing me with this flicker problem (and a general low light level while in 1080i mode). I'm using a DirecTV (non-Tivo) receiver. What retailer did you find the best deal on the cables through?

Anyone else experience low light level during 1080i mode?

I am also highly annoyed with this flicker problem, and also notice lower light level in 1080i. I was wondering if anyone has seen or tried the RTC2200.

http://www.curtpalme.com/RTC2200.shtm

It has gamma boost circuitry that appears to enhance the dark areas of the image.

This unit is also a component-to-RGBVH converter.

[kramovid]

Hi - Just learned about this forum so bear with me. I have the flicker problem with KP-57HW40. USed to have a Tivo box. Has the set repaired 2X (they changed Y board I believe). I is 5-6 years old. Now I have a HR20-700 and still see the same problem. Only happens rarely with X-box.

Has anyone seen the problem with this setup? Any fixes?

kramovid

[ronenbu]

I've had the setup for 6 months now and it completely eliminated the flicker problem, but I've switched TVs now and got no use for it anymore. If anyone is interested, please check http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290251058020

thanks!

[chcallander]

Can anyone describe how to set up the non-invasive solution.

I have a Sony 61XBR300 (which I beleive someone else had as well) and it does not have a VGA input.

I think it is:
1. Component out of my HD Reciever --
2. Component into new CTCA3 converter --
3. VGA out to new Steren VGA to 5 RCA Component Cables ?? --
4. New Component Cables into TV Video 5 input ??

Is this correct?

[Jerry T]

I own a Sony Projection KP-65BR10W TV and in my case, the fault is BOTH Sony's AND TiVo's. I have worked for a consumer electronics store for the past 15 years and I have installed thousands of video systems of all kinds in homes so I consider myself experienced in the field.

My TV is old but it is 1080i compatible. I owned a HI DEF cable box from Comcast for years before I bought my first HD TiVo. The Comcast box output 1080i to my TV through component cables and I NEVER had a sync problem. My first TiVo, the TCD652160, gave me a sync problem as soon as I hooked up the component cables. When set to 1080i OR 720p I would lose sync whenever the image on screen approached full white (snow scenes, fades to white, special effects with bright explosions) and the problem was unbearable when fast forwarding through content - couldn't see the content. I wound up using the 480p output on the TiVo which worked fine but wasn’t HI DEF. When set to 720p I get the effect that others have observed - an incremental shift up and down of the whole image.

My second TiVo is the TCD746320 and it still has the same problem with the 1080i output but it happens less often and is almost bearable.

I have used other 1080i and 480p sources (DVD, Video game) on my TV and never had a problem with sync.

This strikes me as a voltage out of range problem, I'm guessing the TiVo engineers did not test their video output boards with older 1080i compatible TVs and may not have known there was a problem. I think I may try a variety of resistors on the component cables to drop the overall voltage being sent to the TV in hopes of keeping it in the range the Sony will accept.

Actually the output is probably an AC voltage so a coil may be a better choice.

I don't consider a $600-$800 board from Sony on my old TV to be a answer.

I'll let you all know what I find out.

********************************

I just saw the post about using the service menu on my Sony TV to set the video 5 input to 1080i fixed. It was a very quick fix and cured 90% of my flicker!

I think I'll stop here...