*OFFICIAL* "subchannels getting shifted upwards" THREAD

[borghe]

edit - ok, this thread is now for all subchannel mapping issue. This includes two known issues:

1) the subchannel is not mapping at all. In this instance, your station's analog channel (the one we've known for the last million years) is on channel X, and their digital station is sent on on channel Y. Most of the time the station then remaps the digital channel to channel X-1. In some cases now, the Tivo is not remapping that channel.

example: Channel 45 sends out it's digital signal on channel 26-1. If you tune to channel 26-1 ON ANY OTHER TUNER, it will remap to channel 45-1. However on your Tivo, it will not remap and your Tivo never sees any 45-1, only 26-1.

2) some or all of your subchannels on a station are being shifted upwards.

example: where you used to be finding channel 46-1, 46-2, and 46-3 ON ANY OTHER TUNER, now there is nothing on 46-1, and everything is on 46-2, 46-3, 46-4.

first post which problem you are having, then under each number, post the channels. Also, PLEASE ONLY POST THE PROBLEMS HERE IF IT IS ONLY THE TIVO HAVING PROBLEMS AND NOT OTHER HD STBs. If you have never had another STB post here and ask. If your problem is exactly like what is being stated here most likely this problem is affecting you. If it is different, feel free to post but you should DEFINITELY confirm that it is specifically related to your Tivo, and not to the station itself.

MOST IMPORTNAT OF ALL!!!!! Make sure you call DirecTV on this and make sure when you talk to a tech (not a CSR) you tell them exactly which stations (including call letters) you are having problems with. It will probably be easier for them to fix if they could understand why the unit is doing this on some stations and not others.

1 - WMVS Milwaukee, WI
Tivo will not scan channel 8-2, nor will it remap it to 10-2 when manually tuned to. It WILL see and map to 10-1 and 10-3 through 10-6. Only 10-2 is missed.

2 - WDJT Milwaukee, WI
on channel 46 all subchannels (3) are shifted up one channel. 46-1 is blank and 46-2 though 46-4 carry programming. This causes the DirecTV guide data on the channels directv has 46 mapped to to be incorrect (58-1 through 58-3).

[oosik77]

My problem is bigger...

KUTP the UPN channel here in Phoenix is Analog 45, the Tivo has the digital stations listed as 45-1 and 45-2 but there's no signal there. If I have the Tivo search for OTA channels it finds 45-1 and 45-2 at 26-1 and 26-2.

[mitchrc]

KUTP's DTV channel is on 26. You're having a remap problem.

[btwyx]

What exactly is the problem you're looking for?

It sounds like what I'm getting on KCSM 60 (San Mateo, CA). That's being broadcast on channel 43, first problem is that its not being mapped to 60-1 properly, I can only get it on 43-1. This may resolve itself when channel 60 goes off the air on May 17th and 43 will be its only broadcast.

There's also a jazz subchannel which should be 43-2. It started off as 43-2, but then it became 43-3, and 43-2 is the same as 43-1 now.

[borghe]

yes, you have both problems.

[sprocto2]

Here's what we have, these are strictly what's provided by D* in the guide.

Buffalo -

2-1 - Works Correctly
4-1 - Nothing, "Searching for Signal"
4-2 - Shows what 4-1 is supposed to be
4-3 - Shows what 4-2 is supposed to be
7-1 - Works Correctly
17-1 - Nothing, "Searching for Signal"
17-2 - Shows what 17-1 is supposed to be
17-3 - Shows what 17-2 is supposed to be

Rochester -

8-1 - Signal too weak
10-1 - Works Correctly
13-1 - Works Correctly
21-1 - Works Correctly
21-2 - Works Correctly
21-3 - Works Correctly
21-4 - Works Correctly

Buffalo also has Fox, WB and UPN on the air. I can tune these in manually using the actual frequency +.1. They are not found in a scan. Presumably because Tivo looks at the X.1 sub-channel and sees nothing.

I have an e-mail in to D*

[mchaney]

I think it would serve us all (and DirecTV) better if we keep all this info in one thread, so I hope this is the last "official" thread on the topic so that if someone points DirecTV here, they'll be able to get all the responses in one thread.

I too have the problem. 52-1, 52-2, and 52-3 map to 2-1, 2-2, and 2-3 on my other HD receivers but on my HR10-250, they map to 2-1, 52-3, and 52-4 respectively. Someone at DirecTV needs to correct this bug and hopefully they can do it quickly in a download because some people are unable to record season passes due to this problem. Has anyone called and pointed them here? I tried calling yesterday but didn't get anyone "sentient" on the phone and just didn't have time to jump through the hoops at the time so I hung up. May try again later today if no one else has already contacted them.

Edit: just emailed the URL to them. If you need to send the URL to someone else, I created a tiny one for purposes of sending email/messages:
http://*******.com/2dfvg

Don't know why it won't let me type "tiny url" as one word but replace the *'s above with "tiny url" as one word (remove the space).

Mike

[midas]

Here in Chicago we have a very strange one, channel 26 (WCIU). 26-1 shows in the guide but can't be tuned in. 26-2 shows in the guide and can be tuned in, however what you actually get is 26-1. If you do a channel scan these channels show up as 1-1 (26-1) and 1-2 (26-2). You can tune to them, but of course, there is no guide data.

One more oddity is the station call letters displayed:

26-1 WCIUDT
26-2 WCIUDT2
1-1 WCIU-TV
1-2 WFBT-CA

I have no idea what all this means.

[oosik77]

Originally posted by mitchrc
KUTP's DTV channel is on 26. You're having a remap problem.

Yup, I hope they fix it. But for now I don't think KUTP is doing anything more then 480p anyway.

[borghe]

midas - AHHH.. I see you have a weigel station also.. :P let me explain what is happening..

first, you have the problem listed in this thread. your subchannels on the actual digital channel are being shifted up one.

second, DirecTV hard maps almost ALL weigel stations to their analog station, while weigel maps them to channel 1. This has been discussed in great depths on many forums (particularly Dish forums where the 811 receiver was unable to tune in any weigel station because of not being able to get channel 1). Basically weigel is out of compliance with ATSC standards for north america. They know this, have been told this, and the individual station managers can't do anything as it is a corporate office mandate that those stations be on channel 1. The "good news" is that this issue is irrelevant to weigel's misguided intentions. What you are seeing is the Tivo shifting the subchannels up on the digital channel, BUT CORRECTLY INTERPRETING the PSIP remapping of the channel to weigel's intended locations. Even after Tivo fixes this, upon a channel scan those channels will still show up on channel 1.

third - the call signs are different because the 26 call signs are what (tribune? gemstar?) are assigned to them in the DirecTV guide, whereas the 1 call signs are assigned in the PSIP data.. Again, the Tivo is acting according to spec.

finally, the guide data is missing for channel 1 because a DirecTV HD receiver WILL NOT provide both guide data from DirecTV AND PSIP data... one or the other. The only way a DirecTV receiver will show PSIP guide data is if the is no DirecTV signal. Now the station might not even be sending guide data, but even if it was your receiver wouldn't show it unless you turned it into an OTA only box.

machaney - sorry about the additional thread. I agree we need an official one and that is why I created another one.. I thought hard about this and decided one with "official" in the topic would be more obvious to people having this problem. if it is a consolation, I was going to post a link to this thread in both of our other threads but decided it would be best served to let those ones die and only keep this one on the main page...

I have called DirecTV, and the level 2 tech said this was obviously not working as it was supposed to. He told me both bproblems have been sent to level 3 techs and that if I don't see a fix within the next two weeks to call back and keep on them.

So yes, if you are having this problem, call 1-800-347-3288 and ask to speak to a technician and let them know you are having it. As was said in the first post, tell them the channel numbers, call signs, any information you can give them. The more people who call in with this hopefully the quicker it will be fixed.

I will have to say that so far these are my only problems with my Tivo. I can honestly say that once these are fixed, my Tivo will literally be perfect according to my expectations of it.. Hopefully this will be resolved soon....

[midas]

borghe, I understand your explanation except for 2 things. The fact that they show up as 1-1 and 1-2 doesn't bother me. But why is 26-1 coming in on 26-2 and 26-1 can't be tuned at all? Unfortunately I don't have my HTL-HD hooked up anymore, but I don't rememer that problem.

My second question is regarding the actual remapping to 1-1. That doesn't seem right. What would happen if another station did the same thing? And what's to stop them from remapping to 2-1?

[borghe]

1. because you have "The problem". The problem is that on certain digital channels across the country, the Tivo is shifting the subchannels up a channel. That is the purpose of this thread, to let people know the Tivo is incorrectly doing this and to have them chime in here and have them call DirecTV. Your HTL-HD didn't do it because it was seeing the channels correctly at their proper location. The Tivo isn't. It needs to be fixed.

2. my little dig into you having a weigel station (here in milwaukee we have channel 58). Weigel Broadcasting has sent down a mandate that all of its digital stations are to remap to channel 1. The thought is that it will appear first in the guide and draw more attention to itself. According to ATSC north american standards, only channels 2-69 are to be used for remapping, AND a station is supposed to remap its digital channel to a substation of its analog channel number. 58 is my analog station. 58 (no subchannel) and 58-0 should tune in the analog channel 58. 58-1 should tune in the digital channel.

top answer your question about channel two, these standards are supposed to prevent that. if a station is on analog channel 36, their digital channel according to these standards should remap to channel 36.

basically weigel is out of compliance in two places. They are not remapping to their analog channel number, and they are using an unapproved channel number to do it. They know this, but short of action by the FCC, it won't change, and they have basically said so.

[chadly25]

Does anyone know why the guide on my TiVo lists ABC's HD station as 6-1, but it isn't there? ABC's HD feed in Indianapolis is on 25-1, not 6-1. If I tune to 25-1 I get ABC. This presents a problem for when I want to record something on ABC. TiVo won't know to go to 25-1 instead of 6-1. Is there a setting in TiVo (one that is transparent to me) that allows me to manually remap ABC to 6-1? Anyone else having this problem???

I was told to post my previous thread in this area. It seems that others are having this problem too. Is there any fix yet?

[kbcrowe]

Add Channel 48 in Huntsville, AL to those having problem #2. :(

[borghe]

remember everyone.. CALL DIRECTV ABOUT THIS PROBLEM!! Each and every person needs to call DirecTV and let them know how important this is.. I personally can not record off of two channels I normally would because of this bug. I'm sure it has to be affecting others here in the same way. We need to move this near the top of DirecTV's list for fixing.

So call in if you haven't already.

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by borghe
remember everyone.. CALL DIRECTV ABOUT THIS PROBLEM!! Each and every person needs to call DirecTV and let them know how important this is.. I personally can not record off of two channels I normally would because of this bug. I'm sure it has to be affecting others here in the same way. We need to move this near the top of DirecTV's list for fixing.

So call in if you haven't already.

I assume you mean you can't record with a title season pass. You can set up manual recording for any channel you want. It's a decent workaround for me and it has been working so far..

[JimSpence]

Although I don't have an HDTiVo, I do have a problem with my HTL-HD STB with one of my locals. My ABC affiliate is on analog 34 and digital 4. Sometimes the HD content gets remapped to 34-1 as it should, but at other times it shows up as 4-2. I emailed the affiliate asking what's happening.

Here's the response I got, which should give some insight into this situation.

To answer your PSIP receiver remapping question. Our PSIP (Program and System Information Protocol) channel branding stream is constantly transmitted to remap receivers to 34-1 for branding our HDTV signal with our analog over the air channel.

Some set top boxes, usually combo DirecTV/HDTV receivers (from many different manufactures) have an occasional PSIP issue as you've just described. Essentially the satellite provider performs a download or update of your program guide and or subscription information. During this process the channel will appear to your receiver as 4-2. When the process is complete the re-map should return to 34-1 sometimes this may be hours later and it may not complete until overnight hours. Any box that connects to a phone line for program guide or subscription services such as TiVo or pay per view services could be subject to the same issue. We do provide guide information that will show up when you use your guide button or feature of your receiver. Issues with this may be associated with your remote services download or update of your receiver as well.

The latter part about the guide info hasn't happened yet. Tribune doesn't have the info.

[borghe]

Originally posted by sprocto2
I assume you mean you can't record with a title season pass. You can set up manual recording for any channel you want. It's a decent workaround for me and it has been working so far..
I don't agree at all that that it is an acceptable work around.. To be blunt, if I wanted to do that I would have never bought a Tivo 3 years ago...

I understand that you are saying it is at least a solution, and in cases where my local stations don't send guide data to TMS it is my only choice, but this is something that Tivo needs to fix, and unitl they do, it is considered unusable by me.. part of my problem also is that I have been excited for this unit for almost two years now, and had this glitch not occured this product would have exactly met my expectations. Now everyone asks me how I like my HD Tivo and I am honest "It is great except not being able to record channel 41 or CBS (two channels)".

Other of you this may not be impacting as much and I understand that... if this were on an unwatched independent local or even a PBS channel, I wouldn;t be raising anywhere near this stink about it.. but what it is affecting is my CBS station and probably my third favorite station in our area (older movies, B monster movies, classic TV, etc). Both have accurate guide data up but I can't use it at all to record... Tivo needs to fix this..

anyway, hopefully that gives you a better idea of why I am making such a big deal out of this... it just seems that in my case, the problem directly affects probably the two single channels I would most record from.

[sprocto2]

Don't get me wrong, I am very dissapointed as well. For me however, the ability to record, pause, rewind HD OTA and D* was my number one desire and it does that. I will continue to try to work with D* till it's fixed.

[bobnxena]

I get Houston ABC Channel 13's digital signal where it's broadcast, on frequency 32-1, but it doesn't remap to 13-1 as it should -- Problem No. 1. Strangely enough, this problem first happened Sunday evening (9 May) about 8 p.m. in the middle of a program we were watching. Channel 13-1 suddenly went dark, and we had to switch to SD Channel 13 (not knowing about the remap problem at the time). D* second-level techs and supers still profess ignorance about any remapping issues as of this morning.

The other subchannels seem to be remapping okay, except for PBS Channel 8-1, which I can't find anywhere. Another mystery is that NBC Channel 2's subchannels 35-1, -2, and -3 all remap just fine, but when I access 35-2 or 35-3, the TiVo tuner actually switches itself to the remapped channels (2-2 and 2-3), complete with program banners. 35-1 and the rest of the subchannels don't do this. I don't have enough background to know whether this is significant.

[jculp99]

Originally posted by chadly25
Does anyone know why the guide on my TiVo lists ABC's HD station as 6-1, but it isn't there? ABC's HD feed in Indianapolis is on 25-1, not 6-1. If I tune to 25-1 I get ABC. This presents a problem for when I want to record something on ABC. TiVo won't know to go to 25-1 instead of 6-1. Is there a setting in TiVo (one that is transparent to me) that allows me to manually remap ABC to 6-1? Anyone else having this problem???

I was told to post my previous thread in this area. It seems that others are having this problem too. Is there any fix yet?

chadley25,
Just confirming that I am experiencing the same thing in the Indianapolis market.
There is some talk over at the AVS OTA locals forum that seems to indicate that WRTV is using equipment that gives some receivers problems with the remapping.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3669750#post3669750

Regards,
jculp99

[ebonovic]

Does anyone have a link to the FCC site, that states the reqs. for the PSIP mapping.

I have tried calling, emailing, and visiting WCIU (Chicago's 26), and either get no response or a very negative response when asking why they broadcast as 1-1 vs the 26-1.

I would like to have a copy of the ruling for my next communication with them, and would like to reference it in a complaint filing with the FCC.

I am just one guy, but it has to start somewhere...
They are getting away with it now, simply because the volume of digital reception simply is not high enough, and most people will watch on the analog versions.

There is actually some programming on their subchannel 26-2 that I would like to Tivo for my family and co-workers, which is not available on the analog versions of the channel.

[borghe]

ebonovic - it doesn't matter.. Weigel knows about the remapping standards, and they openly choose to defy them, and until the FCC starts threatening them with punishment, they will continue to defy them.

[ebonovic]

Well at least another complaint filed with the FCC could help...:)

[aos]

Originally posted by bobnxena
I get Houston ABC Channel 13's digital signal where it's broadcast, on frequency 32-1, but it doesn't remap to 13-1 as it should -- Problem No. 1. Strangely enough, this problem first happened Sunday evening (9 May) about 8 p.m. in the middle of a program we were watching.

Same exact problem here. I started another thread and was pointed in this direction.

I, too, lost KTRKDT 13-1 the other night and have had to tune it manually to get anything.

I'll be giving DirecTV a call as well.

-andrew

[hd10250]

I'm having the same problem with KTRK being on 32-1 instead of 13-1 where is should be.

Does anyone have an update on when this will be fixed as the Sony HD200 receiver that I replaced did not have this problem?

[sprocto2]

After receiving the typical response to my e-mail inquiry on mapping issues, I replied back with a semi-firm response with a link to this thread. Their response is below. It gave me hope...

Dear Scott,

Thank you for writing. I am sorry that the technical trouble you are
having has not been resolved and understand how this can affect your
enjoyment of DIRECTV service. Because technical problems are tough to
diagnose via email, I have forwarded your report to one of our technical
experts who will call you within the next two business days. If they
aren't able to solve the problem over the phone, they will take the
appropriate steps to track down what needs to be done. We want to earn
your business and will work hard to find a solution. Thank you for your
patience and for giving us the chance to respond.

Sincerely,

XXXXXX
DIRECTV Customer Service

[chris_h]

Originally posted by ebonovic
Does anyone have a link to the FCC site, that states the reqs. for the PSIP mapping.

Please don't shoot the messenger, but it is my current understanding (from a guy in the industry that teaches classes on PSIP) that compliance with the standard is not mandated by the FCC. I asked him about it a few months back when I was fiddling with my friends myHD card and I noticed that very few stations in the Sacramento, CA area send accurate PSIP data.

He said that there is a wide variance in conforming to the standard, which is probably the cause of what we are seeing here. It kinda makes you wonder why they even have a standard, huh?

He refered me to another guy that is the prez/CEO of Triveni Digital, a company that makes PSIP generators. It seems like they would have a vested interest in making the PSIP standard be mandatory. I emailed an inquiry to him regarding this issue, and will report back with the results.

If you are just interested in finding out what data fields the standard specifies, you can probably get it from the www.atsc.org website. I also found a tutorial on PSIP at www.sarnoff.com (search for PSIP) but I have not looked into it.

[mchaney]

Originally posted by sprocto2
After receiving the typical response to my e-mail inquiry on mapping issues, I replied back with a semi-firm response with a link to this thread. Their response is below. It gave me hope...


Don't get too much hope though. After the first sentence in your response, I got an identical response (word for word) after I emailed them with a link to this thread. Looks like a form mail that they send to everyone.

Mike

[sprocto2]

Bummer. It's a good one! I actually had the feeling it was typed just for me! Time will tell. On a positive note, our Fox affiliate popped up in the guide last night, with good guide data AND it works!

[borghe]

chris_h - this isn't entirely true.. the FCC has indeed mandated that ATSC rules be followed, and this is a selection from page 27 of document A/69 (http://www.atsc.org/standards/a_69.pdf) off of the ATSC site:

In the U.S., the NTSC RF channel is required to be used as a major channel number.

Being that IIRC the FCC was involved in the ATSC committee, you would think they would have it mandated that those rules be followed.. the problem we are running into right now is that a mandate doesn't mean much if it's not enforced, which is the situation with Weigel Broadcasting. They know they are out of ATSC spec and they don't care, nor will they until the FCC steps in and makes them follow the ATSC standards for North America.

So technically I believe your friend is wrong in that it is mandated, though essentially he is right in that the FCC is basically turning a blind eye towards Weigel on this one, for now.....

[hd10250]

I called D* and reported KTRK Houston (32-1) not being mapped to 13-1. The D* technical support filled out a trouble report, including this URL, but said that she did not know of any other reports of the problem and that D* was not tracking the issue.

Would anyone else experiencing OTA mapping issues, please call D* and report the issue? The D* CSR suggested that I place this request as the number of reports will escalate closure of the issue.

Not being able to record the Houston ABC affiliate is not acceptable. You would have hoped that D*'s beta testing would have caught this problem (being reported in many cities above).

[borghe]

I have already called (probably a day or so before posting this "official" thread) and have mentioned it multiple times in this thread to call also... so here goes again

If you haven't called in on either of these problems, STOP READING RIGHT NOW AND PICK UP THE PHONE!

what hd10250 is saying is exactly what I am afraid of.. while I would take what the CSR says with a grain of salt, the bottom line is that the more people who call in on these problems, the more likely they are to be fixed promptly.

So call call call call... tell DirecTV about this and let's get it resolved already.

[STONEY]

they have fixed houston abc13-1 and 13-2 13-3 great job dtv

[bobnxena]

Confirming that 13-2, -2, and -3 remapping is correct now. I had to rescan OTA channels to pick up all the remapped subchannels.

Maybe we're making progress . . .

[chris_h]

Originally posted by borghe
a mandate doesn't mean much if it's not enforced

Agreed. I would even go so far as to say an unenforced mandate is not a mandate at all. If a mandate falls in the forest and no one is around to...

[sprocto2]

After working with Level 2 support, they said it's an issue with the hardware. They are sending a tech to verify. Then I have to get a replacement from where I bought it.

[borghe]

crap... WTF!?!? Man, if they try pulling that with me I am going to scream...

also, that is BS you have to get a replacement from where you bought it.. if where you bought it can't get it to you soon enough, demand that DirecTV replace it..

I also can't believe they can't send down a firmware upgrade to correct this.. man, I am so f***ing p***ed right now.. I am going to call today and see what they say. If they tell me I need to exchange my box on this DirecTV sure as hell better cross ship me a new one...

[borghe]

ok, a slight (but not really good) update.

Unfortunately I can no longer help on problem number 1. No it wasn't fixed by DirecTV but it was inadvertently fixed by the station when they added the channel to the TMS listings. My box now forcably maps the channel the Tivo wouldn't to its correct location.

So it is a matter of that I will never know if it is fixed or not.

So other people will have to chime into this thread to say if and when it is fixed.

I am still having the second problem in spades though. That is where subchannels are being shifted up a channel throwing the guide and forced mappings out of whack.

Has anyone else received any updates on either of these problems from DirecTV?

[paulj]

I called the problem in. First talked to an "entertainment consultant" who said "huh?" She fairly quickly sent me to the next level. He had me manually scan the stations in and then after 5 minutes on hold told me they had other reports of the problem and would put something in my file.

paul

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by borghe
ok, a slight (but not really good) update.

Unfortunately I can no longer help on problem number 1. No it wasn't fixed by DirecTV but it was inadvertently fixed by the station when they added the channel to the TMS listings. My box now forcably maps the channel the Tivo wouldn't to its correct location.

So it is a matter of that I will never know if it is fixed or not.

So other people will have to chime into this thread to say if and when it is fixed.

I am still having the second problem in spades though. That is where subchannels are being shifted up a channel throwing the guide and forced mappings out of whack.

Has anyone else received any updates on either of these problems from DirecTV?

They sent out a technician to look at it. He didn't have a clue about HD-Tivo and didn't even know how to manually tune a OTA digital. No help. Called again and got someone in level-2 to take a full report. He stated that they send the information off the the STB engineers for analysis. He said if it isn't fixed, in a week or so, to call back.

If there are others with confirmed cases of issue #2, plase call in. If you can't get to someone that can help, I have a number that is suppose to get me directly into Enhanced support. I can PM it. I don't want to post it.

[borghe]

I will call again this Friday.. at purchase was one thing, a week later is another, but two weeks on what I would call such a critical issue is pushing the limits.. This needs to get resolved now.. I have been doing manual recordings for two weeks and in the meantime around 3-6 shows have recorded from the channels that I would be interested in but were the wrong shows because of the subchannel shift...

[rubinjm]

I'm on the phone with a DTV tech but he says he knows nothing about it...just gave him the forum address!

[wolfiii]

I gather from reading the thread that I should call DirecTV, but I have Pegasus service. I guess I will dig in my manual for a service number.

I have the HR10-250 and when it was first plugged in it did receive the correct sub channels.

When I checked it the other day the channels were not mapped. ( I am in Louisville KY and it does this on channel 3 which should have two subs, 3-1 and 3-2)

I also have a E86 Hughes and it works fine.

I have rescanned the channels multiple times, unplugged the unit and powered back on, but no help.

Someone said that you could manually record ? How would I do this ?

Thanks for any help.

[sprocto2]

wolfiii,

If the channel is in the guide, set up a manual recording under "Pick Programs to Record".

If it isn't, manually tune it in and hit record to force it into the guide first.

[wolfiii]

The regular OTA channel is in there as 3, but none of the sub channels 3-1 or 3-2.

When I check OTA signal strength it shows up at 80 to 90.

So I guess there is no way to get to it?

[sprocto2]

If it is displayed as 3 and not 3-1, I think that is D* provided locals, not OTA. Try setting the guide to "all channels" and make sure Louisville is set as your primary network in Tivo setup. Even if you have problem #2, it will be listed in the guide.

[PlasMAN]

Those having OTA guide mapping problems - see the thread noted below. You may want to report the problem to Zap2it who apparently provides D* with their guide data. Can't hurt to try anyway:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178963

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by PlasMAN
Those having OTA guide mapping problems - see the thread noted below. You may want to report the problem to Zap2it who apparently provides D* with their guide data. Can't hurt to try anyway:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=178963

The issue I have is not with Zap2it's data, It is how the HR10-250 handles it. Every other receiver I have used works fine. It's a hardware/software issue with the Tivo.

[borghe]

this isn't a guide issue... it is a software issue.. my guide data is all there (I am the one who started recommending people look at zap2it), it is that the tivo is shifting all the channels up 1 subchannel on certain channels.

I will say this again.. CALL TIVO ON THIS IF YOU ARE HAVING A PROBLEM WITH IT!!!

I just called them again this past weekend and again they told me it wasn't in the database and isn't on the list to be looked at.. people.. I know there are lots of you having problems with this.. multiple people in this thread have posted about this and you have to figure each person in those metro areas are having the exact same problem as well.. CALL IT IN!!! Hell, start calling it in every day.. I finally got frustrated with the poor manager who was on the phone this weekend and told her I am basically unable to record from three channels because of this and am on the verge of cancelling my service because of the lack of attention this is receiving. Three times I called it in and three times I have been told they have never heard about this before...

CALL it IN PEOPLE!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!! I know there are many of you having this problem.. please, let's get it fixed...

wolfiii - you have a different mapping problem.. it sounds like 3-1 and 3-2 aren't in your directv guide and they aren't being mapped by the Tivo... try turning to the actual station 3 is on.. so if digital 3 is actually on 45 for example, try tuning to 45-1 and 45-2 instead... if that works than the Tivo just isn't mapping them.. definitely call DirecTV and let them know in that case..

[AmaTivo]

I think I've also experienced the channel shifting in Amarillo with one exception. For the first few days, my Tivo worked great. Then one day I turned it on and all my digital station 10 channels (CBS) had no signal.

After I re-scanned for OTA channels, it found stations on channel 9. After I added them, I found them to be what had previously been my channel 10 stations.

Unfortunatley, I had guide data when it was channel 10. Now I can see the channels, but I do not have any guide data because Tivo does not know what stations they are!

It is very frustrating.

I cannot reference what channels it should be since this is my first HD receivier, but I'm pretty sure they should be on 10.

But I still love my Tivo! I just won't end up watching as many CBS programs...

UPDATE: Now, I have my channel 10 signal back on Channel 10 (with guide information). However, I also have the same stations on channel 9. Is that weird or what?

[ShiningBengal]

Ah, the joys of being on the bleeding edge of new technology: You pay more, and get less.

Still waiting before I plunk my money down.

(Still have 3 SD TiVo's bought for next-to-nothing, all operating glitch free since day one. I can wait a few months or even years to get a unit that does what it's supposed to--out of the box.)

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by ShiningBengal
Ah, the joys of being on the bleeding edge of new technology: You pay more, and get less.

Still waiting before I plunk my money down.

(Still have 3 SD TiVo's bought for next-to-nothing, all operating glitch free since day one. I can wait a few months or even years to get a unit that does what it's supposed to--out of the box.)

If we were talking about blue ray laser HD DVD players, it would be bleading edge. Digital OTA receivers have been if FULL production for YEARS! This is unacceptable. My 2+ year old Samsung never had these issues.

If they had picked me for beta, we wouldn't have this issue! ;)

[ShiningBengal]

Originally posted by sprocto2
If we were talking about blue ray laser HD DVD players, it would be bleading edge. Digital OTA receivers have been if FULL production for YEARS! This is unacceptable. My 2+ year old Samsung never had these issues.

If they had picked me for beta, we wouldn't have this issue! ;)

Yes, Digital OTA receivers have been around long enough so that the bugs should have been swatted out of them by now. But the fact of the matter is, they haven't!

Virtually every receiver out there has serious bugs. It doesn't seem to matter how much you pay, you still get design problems, bugs, and quality issues.

I'm not averse to paying extra for high quality design and production. I'd love to, in fact. But there isn't a single OTA receiver out there that fills that bill.

[AmaTivo]

Originally posted by AmaTivo
I think I've also experienced the channel shifting in Amarillo with one exception. For the first few days, my Tivo worked great. Then one day I turned it on and all my digital station 10 channels (CBS) had no signal.

After I re-scanned for OTA channels, it found stations on channel 9. After I added them, I found them to be what had previously been my channel 10 stations.

Unfortunatley, I had guide data when it was channel 10. Now I can see the channels, but I do not have any guide data because Tivo does not know what stations they are!

It is very frustrating.

I cannot reference what channels it should be since this is my first HD receivier, but I'm pretty sure they should be on 10.

But I still love my Tivo! I just won't end up watching as many CBS programs...

UPDATE: Now, I have my channel 10 signal back on Channel 10 (with guide information). However, I also have the same stations on channel 9. Is that weird or what?


UPDATE: My OTA guide was correct for almost two weeks. Now, the OTA guide for CBS (KFDA) is on 9.1 but the guide data is on 10-1. Thus, I can't record anything on CBS (except manually).

[Plugplay]

Originally posted by sprocto2
Here's what we have, these are strictly what's provided by D* in the guide.

Buffalo -

2-1 - Works Correctly
4-1 - Nothing, "Searching for Signal"
4-2 - Shows what 4-1 is supposed to be
4-3 - Shows what 4-2 is supposed to be
7-1 - Works Correctly
17-1 - Nothing, "Searching for Signal"
17-2 - Shows what 17-1 is supposed to be
17-3 - Shows what 17-2 is supposed to be

Rochester -

8-1 - Signal too weak
10-1 - Works Correctly
13-1 - Works Correctly
21-1 - Works Correctly
21-2 - Works Correctly
21-3 - Works Correctly
21-4 - Works Correctly

Buffalo also has Fox, WB and UPN on the air. I can tune these in manually using the actual frequency +.1. They are not found in a scan. Presumably because Tivo looks at the X.1 sub-channel and sees nothing.

I have an e-mail in to D*

The Buffalo situation is still the same. I can only record NBC, ABC & FOX. CBS, UPN, PBS (both) are useless as they are re-mapped incorrectly. WB is just too weak to tune in. I really hope this gets addressed soon.

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by Plugplay
The Buffalo situation is still the same. I can only record NBC, ABC & FOX. CBS, UPN, PBS (both) are useless as they are re-mapped incorrectly. WB is just too weak to tune in. I really hope this gets addressed soon.

I am on my second unit and both operate the same. I am hoping the rumored software update fixes it. I don't really mind manual recordings for now though.

[borghe]

yes, still the same problem here... I have called it in again this weekend.. at least this time the tech didn't tell me they have never heard about this.. they said there will eventually be an update but they don't know what will be in the update.. I asked him if this was recorded as being looked at and he said that he has submitted this before....

hopefully it is fixed soon.. call in and bug the ever living hell out of them. I call in usually once every two weeks..

I will say that for as many bugs as the HD Tivo has you would think updates would come out sooner than, well.. never...

[Rick Sass]

I just spoke to a tech at DTV and he was aware of the problem and he gave me a fax number to report the issue. They will use this info from different users and then try to come up with a fix. In the fax be as specific as possible.

Here is the info:

Kirk Branam
Ext 4669
Supervisor/Senior Technician
406-727-0730

[haggis444]

Count me in, Cincinnati locals:

WCPO-DT, Digital 10, Analog 9

9-1 is what shows up in the guide---"Searching for Signal"

If I scan for OTA signals, I get the following
10-1
10-2

They both show what 9-1 and 9-2 should, but obviously no guide data.

I had no issues for the first 3 weeks, and never any with my Samsung SIR-TS360.

[Mags]

I have faxed Mr. Branam about my frustration with the Channel 58 mapping problem today....

[haggis444]

I sent a fax as well around the 23rd of July, as of Friday the 30th my guide data was fixed. Now, I have no idea if this is a coincidence or not. Is there any chance it will screw up again? Remember, I didn't have any problems the first 4 weeks I had my HD TiVo.

[RayDennison]

Hi everyone,

I'm a new subscriber to Direct TV. Was with dish for 6 years but finally gave up hope of ever getting their HD DVR. Here's my experience with Bufflao OTA, similar, but not identical to a previous posting:

2-1 works fine
4-1 no signal
4-2 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-1
4-3 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-2
can't receive 4-3
7-1 works fine
7-2 can't receive
17-1 no signal
17-2 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-1
17-3 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-2
can't receive 17-3
23-1,2 works fine (except directory is wrong - have contacted zap2it)
23-3 can't receive
29-1 works fine
49-1 can't receive, no directory

With my rotor pointed appropriately, each of these stations show high signal strength. I get all of these stations in the correct places on a borrowed Samsung SIR-T160. The clear/scan for off-air stations has no effect. It beeps and displays a checkmark in the appropriate places while scanning but never lists and new stations found, even though I cleared them out first. But this seems to have no effect on my ability to recieve them (with the above problems). You can get all the stations if you manually type in their actual channel numbers, but this doesn't help much for TIVO.

Last night I spent about an hour, mostly on hold, with first and second tier CSRs. Neither had ever heard of this problem before. Their suggestion was to get someone out to service the unit, which I expressed strong doubts about solving anything. After finding this forum, I'm now 100% sure that won't help. Has anyone had any contact with a CSR that gave any indication that they were aware of this problem? Should I be optomistic? I mostly love the box. It also has HDMI issues and sloooooooooow guide.

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by RayDennison
Hi everyone,

I'm a new subscriber to Direct TV. Was with dish for 6 years but finally gave up hope of ever getting their HD DVR. Here's my experience with Bufflao OTA, similar, but not identical to a previous posting:

2-1 works fine
4-1 no signal
4-2 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-1
4-3 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-2
can't receive 4-3
7-1 works fine
7-2 can't receive
17-1 no signal
17-2 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-1
17-3 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-2
can't receive 17-3
23-1,2 works fine (except directory is wrong - have contacted zap2it)
23-3 can't receive
29-1 works fine
49-1 can't receive, no directory

With my rotor pointed appropriately, each of these stations show high signal strength. I get all of these stations in the correct places on a borrowed Samsung SIR-T160. The clear/scan for off-air stations has no effect. It beeps and displays a checkmark in the appropriate places while scanning but never lists and new stations found, even though I cleared them out first. But this seems to have no effect on my ability to recieve them (with the above problems). You can get all the stations if you manually type in their actual channel numbers, but this doesn't help much for TIVO.

Last night I spent about an hour, mostly on hold, with first and second tier CSRs. Neither had ever heard of this problem before. Their suggestion was to get someone out to service the unit, which I expressed strong doubts about solving anything. After finding this forum, I'm now 100% sure that won't help. Has anyone had any contact with a CSR that gave any indication that they were aware of this problem? Should I be optomistic? I mostly love the box. It also has HDMI issues and sloooooooooow guide.

It's not the hardware, it's the Tivo software. I have called several times and sent a fax with all the info.

I think you are the second person in western NY to get one, so I don't think they are in any hurry to fix us up. This has been going on for many months. I have been setting up manual records for now.

[RayDennison]

Hi sprocto,

the guy at Stereo Advanatge where I bought mine told me that I was getting the last of 4 that they had. Do you think 5 unhappy subscribers will get their interest :)

Ray

[borghe]

I will call them again this week. I haven't in a while, though I haven't seen other problems fixed either or a software update.

I have no question this will be fixed, I just hope it is in the first update and that update comes soon. Will let you know the result of my phone call this weekend (though don't have high hopes).

[bigrig]

Originally posted by bobnxena
Confirming that 13-2, -2, and -3 remapping is correct now. I had to rescan OTA channels to pick up all the remapped subchannels.

Maybe we're making progress . . .

Hey Houston Homies -

I hooked up the Tivo last night, NBC is off for me. I only see 2-1 in the guide. I have to tune to 35-2 to see their HD channel. Is this the same for other Houstonians, or should I give it some time to sort itself out?

Thanks,

Matt

[allenn]

WXIA Channel 11 Atlanta maps as follows:
AT-11 D* WXIA
11-1 OTA WXIA DT Dolby Digital
11-1 OTA WXIA SD Dolby Digital
10-2 OTA WXIA HD Dolby 51 (programming same as 84 but has commercials)

I have not reported the problem to D*. I did not figure it would change anything based on previous conversations on other technical matters. I think D* is clueless regarding the HD PVR. Hopefully this software problem will get corrected in some future release.

[xiskool]

Originally posted by bigrig
Hey Houston Homies -

I hooked up the Tivo last night, NBC is off for me. I only see 2-1 in the guide. I have to tune to 35-2 to see their HD channel. Is this the same for other Houstonians, or should I give it some time to sort itself out?

Thanks,

Matt


Matt,

I am in Houston and have the same issue. I also saw another Houston guy post with the same problem at the beginning of the Olympics.. Mine has been running like this for over a month.


-chris

[bigrig]

Originally posted by xiskool
Matt,

I am in Houston and have the same issue. I also saw another Houston guy post with the same problem at the beginning of the Olympics.. Mine has been running like this for over a month.


-chris

Okay, thanks Chris. I guess I'll give DirecTV a call.

Matt

[borghe]

yes, that would be the same problem.

I called again this weekend. They say it has been noted on my account from the numerous times before (they didn't sound pleased) and that it has been sent to the engineers....

here is to hoping it appears in the rumored upgrade in early september.

[Syzygy]

I wrote my local NBC affiliate, KARE-11:

To: Phillips, Jeff
Cc: Beardsley, Norm
Subject: Are 11-1 and 11-2 identical?

Ive been receiving 11-1 and 11-2 OTA using a DIRECTV HR10-250 (HD-TiVo) since 8/5. Both channels seem to be showing identical programming, and when one is in HD the other is too.

DIRECTV's guide data is almost identical, too, although I have noticed a few differences in the two schedules.

-- How come 11-1 and 11-2 seem to be identical?

-- Can both be carrying HD without hurting the bandwidth of each?
_____________
Best regards,
Frank Huber

A reply came quickly:

Frank:

We are only broadcasting on 11-1. I don't know why you're getting a signal on 11-2.

By the way, we are planning to broadcast on 11-2 sometime in the next year.

Stay tuned

Jeff

[bigrig]

Originally posted by bigrig
Hey Houston Homies -

I hooked up the Tivo last night, NBC is off for me. I only see 2-1 in the guide. I have to tune to 35-2 to see their HD channel. Is this the same for other Houstonians, or should I give it some time to sort itself out?


Well, I guess now that the Olympics are over, they've put the HD back on 2-1, so all is right with the world again... ;)

Matt

[plenzmd1]

I have a question that i think is a little different, and was wondering if anyone else has this problem. In Richmond, 8-1 is the HD ABC channel, 8-2 is the ABCs 24 hr news station, ABC ONE. In the Guide and in the channel banner, this info shows correct, but only the HD station is shown. The engineer at the station has confirmed he gets both over the air and on Comcast no problems at his house. Not that big a deal, just wondering if others had the same issue

Any suggestions?

BTW OT, OTA was great on Monday as we were getting killed by a storm(14 inches of rain in a little over 6 hrs) . The ABC affiliate had the storm news on the SD channel, but left the game on the HD channel.Way cool!

[sprocto2]

Something has changed for me with the Buffalo OTA stations. Just for fun I cleared my secondary market setting which is Buffalo. All the guide data for those channels disappeared, as they should. I then did a scan. It found ALL the available stations with ALL the subchannels in perfect order! Previous attempts found nothing. This is definitely different. I was excited for a minute, but once I added Buffalo back to get the D* provided guide info back, the shifting still remained.

[bigrig]

Originally posted by plenzmd1
I have a question that i think is a little different, and was wondering if anyone else has this problem. In Richmond, 8-1 is the HD ABC channel, 8-2 is the ABCs 24 hr news station, ABC ONE. In the Guide and in the channel banner, this info shows correct, but only the HD station is shown. The engineer at the station has confirmed he gets both over the air and on Comcast no problems at his house. Not that big a deal, just wondering if others had the same issue

Any suggestions?

BTW OT, OTA was great on Monday as we were getting killed by a storm(14 inches of rain in a little over 6 hrs) . The ABC affiliate had the storm news on the SD channel, but left the game on the HD channel.Way cool!

You can tune to the station directly. While in live TV, enter 8-2. If that doesn't work, find out what the real channel the station is broadcast on, and enter that XX-2. Doesn't help any for name based recording, but I don't think you're looking to do that.

But wait, you watched the SD channel Monday? So what's your question again? :p If you can tune to the station, add it to your list of available channels to see it in the guide.

Matt

[sprocto2]

Anyone else have the mapping issue fixed? I have one that hasn't mapped correctly since I got the Tivo that as of yesterday is working perfectly. The local station did some reprogramming and it solved the problem. I don't think the Tivo changed. This might not be a Tivo issue after all????

[RayDennison]

Hi Scott,

I, too did a scan a couple weeks ago, but without changing anything else first. All of my local stations showed up, but at their "real" numbers, not the aliases. For several stations I had two sets of the same stations 17-1 and 43-1, for WNED for example. And some of those were still wrong. WIVB showed up as 39-2,3,4 intead of 39-1,2,3. This is definitely a change from D*'s side. Scanning used to have no effect whatsoever - it only picked up locals that were in the guide.

At that time, I'm pretty sure that there was no change in the guide errors (shifting). Since I read your email yesterday I went back and rechecked the guide and some, but not all, entries are better. Here's my current status - see if it agrees with yours:

2-1 works fine - except no daytime guide info
4-1 works fine (was no signal) no daytime guide
4-2 works fine (was the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-1)
4-3 works fine (was the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-2)
7-1 works fine
7-2 works fine (was unavailable)
17-1 no signal (no change)
17-2 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-1 (no change)
17-3 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-2 (no change)
can't receive 17-3 directly, but can now get on 43-3
23-1,2 works fine (except guide is wrong - have contacted zap2it)
23-3 can't receive directly, but can now get on 32-4
29-1 works fine
49-1 works fine - no guide (was unavailable)

I have worked around the lack of guide information by displaying the D* locals in the guide. Even though I don't subscribe they still show whats on. Of course I have to manually set times if I want to record and TIVO won't work at all on these. The Channel 23 problems are a non-issue since they currently broadcast the same signals as channel 4 - no UPN hi-def yet. So things are improving, but not there yet.

I also have a Samsung OTA tuner. Until recently 32 and 39 did not display channel aliases (23 and 4). They now display them correctly. This sounds like a change has been made on the broadcasters end. It *might* explain why channel 4's guide is now working? Just speculation, I have no clue how this stuff actually works. And my channel 23 guide is still bogus.

-Ray

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by RayDennison
Hi Scott,

I, too did a scan a couple weeks ago, but without changing anything else first. All of my local stations showed up, but at their "real" numbers, not the aliases. For several stations I had two sets of the same stations 17-1 and 43-1, for WNED for example. And some of those were still wrong. WIVB showed up as 39-2,3,4 intead of 39-1,2,3. This is definitely a change from D*'s side. Scanning used to have no effect whatsoever - it only picked up locals that were in the guide.

At that time, I'm pretty sure that there was no change in the guide errors (shifting). Since I read your email yesterday I went back and rechecked the guide and some, but not all, entries are better. Here's my current status - see if it agrees with yours:

2-1 works fine - except no daytime guide info
4-1 works fine (was no signal) no daytime guide
4-2 works fine (was the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-1)
4-3 works fine (was the stuff that's supposed to be on 4-2)
7-1 works fine
7-2 works fine (was unavailable)
17-1 no signal (no change)
17-2 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-1 (no change)
17-3 has the stuff that's supposed to be on 17-2 (no change)
can't receive 17-3 directly, but can now get on 43-3
23-1,2 works fine (except guide is wrong - have contacted zap2it)
23-3 can't receive directly, but can now get on 32-4
29-1 works fine
49-1 works fine - no guide (was unavailable)

I have worked around the lack of guide information by displaying the D* locals in the guide. Even though I don't subscribe they still show whats on. Of course I have to manually set times if I want to record and TIVO won't work at all on these. The Channel 23 problems are a non-issue since they currently broadcast the same signals as channel 4 - no UPN hi-def yet. So things are improving, but not there yet.

I also have a Samsung OTA tuner. Until recently 32 and 39 did not display channel aliases (23 and 4). They now display them correctly. This sounds like a change has been made on the broadcasters end. It *might* explain why channel 4's guide is now working? Just speculation, I have no clue how this stuff actually works. And my channel 23 guide is still bogus.

-Ray

That's pretty close, 23.1,2,3 match 4.1,2,3 and I have 29-2 and 3

Channed 23's guide data is correct as to how things are suposed to be broadcast. However, for some reason, the station engineer has decided to retransmit WIVB's linup. They need some hardware from UPN before they can transmit HD. I am going to try to get the details on what 4 did to fix things and get it over to the engineer at 17. Wish me luck!

[borghe]

well, some good news... atscapp is updated substantially in the 3.1.5d update sitting on my tivo right now... current version is 76636, new version is 85292... let's hope this problem is included in what has changed in the file.

[borghe]

ok, I finally got sick of it and fixed it myself.... it is a half ass fix as when either Tivo or my local channel fix it permanently I will suffer the opposite problem, but after manuually adjusting things I am viewing the two suspect stations with the correct guide data.

It is VERY technical and REQUIRES a hacked HD Tivo. Basically each station entry from DirecTV/Tivo/TMS has a ProgramNumber of 65535 set in their ChannelDescription object stored in their ApgChannel entry. There is a mapping index in MFS that I am assuming takes care of the actual mapping. On OTA channels that aren't sent down by DirecTV that are only found by doing a channel scan, the ProgramNumber in their ChannelDescription is set to the actual subchannel. So for kicks I decided to change the ProgramNumber on the channels that I Was having a problem with to see if I could force it to a different subchannel...... lo and behold it worked.

If any of you who are having this problem have hacked your tivo, send me a PM. I will need to get some information from you (you will need Tivoweb installed) but I will then be able to PM you a script that you can cut and paste into a telent session in tivosh that will fix your problem.

This is ridiculous. Their is no reason Tivo or our stations shouldn't be fixing this. But as long as both of them continue to ignore the paying consumer, I guess we'll have to fix it ourselves. Oh well, at least now my Tivo is working without any problems whatsoever.

[sprocto2]

I can't believe this isn't fixed yet. It can't be more than a simple mapping table error. It is a 100% repeatable problem on 100% of the units in the markets in question. You can't get any easier of a problem. My latest guesses are that stations that send out re-mapping info in PSIP will work fine. Those that don't, may have the shift issue. I don't get it. Can D* not reproduce it? Are you listening DIRECTV?? Come on over, I got the beer. Fix my f'ing TIVO!!!

[borghe]

I really believe the problem is on both ends.

My station IS sending out mapping info. Granted not the same info that TMS/DirecTV is sending, but it is sending it out. The problem goes beyond mapping in that my Tivo actually sees the subchannels wrong on the analog channel. If I tune to 46-1 which SHOULD give me my CBS station, I get a "searching for signal". If I tune to 46-2 I see what would be on 46-1 on every other receiver. So obviously the Tivo is doing something different than every other receiver.

By that same token, I have one other station in the area that sends out multicasts (7 channels!!!) and another that for a while was sending out two channels. Both of these channels came in just fine. If they can send out PSIP data for a multicast signal, obviously this station is doing something wrong that the other stations aren't.

Unfortunately both companies are able to offset the blame. DirecTV/Tivo can say the station should fix what they are doing wrong and it will work, while the stations can say the Tivo should fix what it's doing wrong and it will work.

Caught in the middle is us, the consumer, who are paying both of these jags to screw us like this.

Yeah, it SHOULD be fixed, and there is no reason that neither the stations nor DirecTV/Tivo are interested in fixing it. In the meantime this is a solution that will at least allow us to rig up something ourselves that will work. I'm sorry that it requires you to hack your Tivo but there is no other way I know of to apply the patch to your MFS database.

In the meantime my Tivo is working 100% for the first time since I bought it.. granted when the idiots at Tivo or my local station actually fix the f'ing problem I will have to be on the ball and IMMEDIATELY switch things back to normal, but short of that I am finally able to set season passes for my CBS station and a decent local independent... sigh.....

[borghe]

Ok, here is the code.. and an explanation. If anyone needs help with this just ask. I take no responsibility if this destroys your Tivo, but if it is done right it will do nothing but fix this stupid problem.. first, the code

set db [dbopen]

puts "Fixing local subchannel shift"

RetryTransaction {
set tempind [db $db open ChannelLocation]
set chandef [dbobj $tempind get "ChannelDefinition"]
dbobj $chandef set "ProgramNumber" DesiredSubChannelNumber
}

puts "Finished"

DesiredSubChannel is the subchannel number your Tivo is actually seeing the station on. If your analog station (not the mapped station) is actually on -2 even though it is supposed to be on -1, that number 2 is what you would use.

ChannelLocation is the difficult one. Open up Tivoweb. Go to Logos. Find the channel you want to fix. Hover over the change link and notice the number at the end of the link. Add one to that number. If it was 12389 it is now 12390. Now go to http://[tivoaddress]/objects/[NumberYouCameUpWith/-1

On this page their is an entry at the bottom called IndexPath. This path is what gets substituted for ChannelLocation up above. So if my subchannel is 2 and my IndexPath is /Server/A0013c74f:87:5:0 my code would look like this

set db [dbopen]

puts "Fixing local subchannel shift"

RetryTransaction {
set tempind [db $db open /Server/A0013c74f:87:5:0]
set chandef [dbobj $tempind get "ChannelDefinition"]
dbobj $chandef set "ProgramNumber" 2
}

puts "Finished"

now the easiest way to do this is to telnet into your Tivo, and at the prompt type tivosh. You should get a % prompt. From there, cut and paste your version of the code into there (if you don't have an CR/LF aka newline at the end of the last line make sure to hit enter). Just recreate the code snippet for each channel you need to fix. To set things back the way they were (in case this ever actually gets fixed, yeah right...), just change the subchannel number after "ProgramNumber" to 65535 and run the code snippet again for each channel.

Any questions feel free to ask. Oh, and once you run it don't forget to exit from tivosh.

[borghe]

so has anyone else tried this yet? This past weekend I almost had to pinch myself to actually believe that I was recording stuff last night from the guide, and that my now showing list actually had the right guide info for the CBS shows..

I imagine this would be plaguing some people less than others (I know if I had this problem on our local channel 30 I would probably never have even complained). But for me on CBS, it was absolutely critical to get it fixed.

Anyway, it is almost worth the $30 cost alone to hack your Tivo just to fix it.

[Three60guy]

Just to let you know I had an opportunity today to speak to a high level support person within TiVo. We spent about an hour defining the problem and I am positive that it was understood. They also now understand the significance of the problem.

The issue has been convoluted by the coincidence of having stations PSIP information discussed. Why? Simply because PSIP information is not used to define the mapping of channels to the actual guide information. If you throw out the PSIP element and understand that the problem is actually within the guide then we are on the way to fixing this problem.

Doing a manual scan only uses the PSIP information gleened from the scan to define channels not currently on the guide. Putting it another way, the guide itself does not use the PSIP info, it is only used to access sub channels previously not defined by the guide.

But if you fix the problem in Milwaukee, that will not fix the problem in Buffalo. On the first page of this thread is a very similiar problem in both cities. BUT fixing it for Milwaukee more than likely will not fix it for Buffalo. There appears to be "something" that is mapping these to one sub channel higher but it certainly has nothing to do with the PSIP information coming from the broadcaster.

So where do we sit now? TiVo totally understands the definition of this problem. It IS getting escalated and I was told I would be guaranteed a return phone call when the problem is resolved in Milwaukee. Any other information gathered will be shared as well. I feel very confident that this problem will be resolved, at least in Milwaukee. But once they have a handle on this problem it will be easier for TiVo to now recognize and resolve this for others as well.

:) Stay Tuned :)


Rees
Racine, Wisconsin
(new owner of HDTV TiVo (HR10-250)

[borghe]

well, I don't entirely agree that the problem isn't PSIP, and that kind of scares me. (hey rees).

Tivo is correct. The guide data mapping to channels has nothing to do with PSIP. That can be seen in the Milwaukee area by understanding that 58-1 is still trying to tune to 46-1 despite the fact that Tivo is incorrectly seeing the subchannels on 46 and thus shifting them up. If you tune to 46-2, you see channel WDJTDT which is supposed to be on 46-1. If you tune to 58-2, you see that you are still seing 46-2, which is supposed to actually be on 46-1.

So in theory, it isn't a guide problem. The guide is doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing; pointing 58-1 at 46-1 and 58-2 at 46-2. For some reason the Tivo is shifting all of the subchannels up on on channel 46. This has nothing to do with the guide. This has to do with how the Tivo's ATSC tuner sees channel 46.

This is further exemplfied by my hack posted here. By pointing the channel in the MFS database to look at program number 2, we fix the problem. So bypassing all guide data, we change the program number to "effectively" the wrong value to get it working.

I hope they really did understand what you were saying. I have talked to numerous techs also (DirecTV techs) and even a manager, all of whom claimed they understood perfectly what I was saying, some even repeating it back to me. Yet here we are and it still isn't fixed.

But we'll see who's right Rees.. :) in the event that it doesn't get fixed anytime soon, I'll be more than happy to drive on down to you and hack your unit to fix the problem. Trust me, tuning in channel 58 and actually seeing the right data in the program guide and knowing that all of your season passes will work.. priceless.... but we can continue this more on the milwaukee board if you want...

[Three60guy]

borghe:

please read your private message I sent you yesterday.

Thanks

Rees

[Three60guy]

I have escalated the issue within Directv. The bottom line is they will not respond until there is enough people who report the problem directly to them.

So......anyone who has this issue......namely when you select an off-the-air channel and get a "searching for signal" error, please contact Directv from their web site at:

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/glb/Form_Feedback.dsp

Bureaucracy works both ways. In this case sending them feed back about this problem will work in our favor IF everyone who has the problem, reports it. In this case, they are required to read it, document it and track it. That works in our favor.

Please make sure you can receive digital channel XX-2 and not XX-1 before contacting Directv. This is to ensure it's just not a matter of not being able to receive the signal. For example, in Milwaukee, analog channel 58 has it's digital channel on 46. When I try to receive channel 46-1 on the HR10-250, I get an error indicating "searching for signal". When I go to 46-2, I get what I should have received on 46-1.

That is the issue. If your noticing this, please take a few minutes to report it. Here is suggested wording (replace XX with the problem channel in your city). Just copy and paste it and replace the XX with the digital channel and your name/city and state you live in.

--------
Suggested wording
--------

I am an owner of a Directv HR10-250. I have noticed that whenever I try to watch digital channel XX-1 I receive a "searching for signal" error but when I go to digital channel XX-2 I receive what I should have received on XX-1. This is preventing any use of TiVo features because while the guide is correct, the guide points to the digital sub-channel which is not receiving the signal correctly. Please consider this an important request because after spending about $1000, I would like to have this channel problem corrected. It would then allow me to use the TiVo features properly.

Thank you.

Your Name
City and State

--------

I also will start a new thread to emphasis the approach to fixing this problem.

:) Regards :)

Rees

[sprocto2]

I have sent many e-mails, feedback forms, faxes and talked to several DTV people. It isn't working. I suspect many more have the problem, but aren't knowledgeable enough about how OTA and subs work to know it.

[Three60guy]

many emails, feedback forms etc from one person apparently won't cut it. It requires the same feedback from many different people.

If others are reading this and you have this problem, I urge you to send an email to the above link.

Together we will have a voice but a few wont get results.

:) Stay Tuned :)

Rees

[DickBulltinkle]

I called mine in last night for this issue. Didn't get too far with 2nd level, his answer was "sorry I don't know, have a nice day". He agreed to have someone call back.

[borghe]

seeing as this is bumped, I urge everyone again to hack your Tivo and perform my fix detailed above.

Between the $1000 price tag and the fact that only certain DMAs are affected, I have no faith that this will be fixed anytime soon. However this fix does work and I can't tell you the joy it has been to be able to record off of my CBS station with season passes and guide data since the start of the current season.

So to get the word out there, if you are in a DMA that has problems with it's subchannels being shifted up a number (Buffalo, Milwaukee, etc) and you have a hacked Tivo (with network access and TivoWeb), perform the instructions provided above to fix your station(s).

USB Ethernet Adapter - $30
Time to hack your Tivo - 1 hour
Being able to record ALL channels on the right subchannel - Priceless

[borghe]

an update.. it seems that my theory on bad PSIP data is correct. from another forum it seems that this problem is caused by people with weigel stations who are mapping their channel to 1-1.

Can anyone else in this thread confirm if they have a weigel owned station or not.

Note for this I am talking SOLELY about the instance where your subchannels are being shifted up one channel (so 58-1 is actually appearing on 58-2, etc). This has nothing to do with channels not mapping or anything like that. This is only for the subchannel shifting problem. In particular I'm thinking of the guys from the Buffalo area and I believe somewhere in Texas(?).

[sprocto2]

Buffalo still has the issue with WNED PBS 17, freq. 43. CBS was fixed by a "reconfigure" of the OTA transmitter.

[midas]

Originally posted by borghe
an update.. it seems that my theory on bad PSIP data is correct. from another forum it seems that this problem is caused by people with weigel stations who are mapping their channel to 1-1.

Can anyone else in this thread confirm if they have a weigel owned station or not.



I can confirm that here in Chicago channel 26 is affected and it is indeed a Weigel owned station.

[borghe]

wned has the subchannel shifting problem?? hmm.. that kind of stinks.. obviously they aren't weigel owned and aren't transmitting to 1-1... :(

[Plugplay]

Originally posted by sprocto2
Buffalo still has the issue with WNED PBS 17, freq. 43. CBS was fixed by a "reconfigure" of the OTA transmitter.

CBS is fixed but WNLO at 23.1 is also a problem. It's not a big deal since both show the same channels, but it's a pain when channel surfing. :(

[greywolf]

Feb. 1, 2005 is the date the FCC has set for putting this folly to an end. PSIP rules are to be enforced beginning on that date.

[sprocto2]

Originally posted by Plugplay
CBS is fixed but WNLO at 23.1 is also a problem. It's not a big deal since both show the same channels, but it's a pain when channel surfing. :(

I am not having any issues with WNLO 23-1,2,3. It is a perfect match for 4-4-1,2,3. The guide data is wrong, is that what you mean?

As for surfing, turn them off?

[Plugplay]

Originally posted by sprocto2
I am not having any issues with WNLO 23-1,2,3. It is a perfect match for 4-4-1,2,3. The guide data is wrong, is that what you mean?

As for surfing, turn them off?

Yes, the guide data is off on 23-1,2,3. I have to turn 23 off as if it records something, it will be wrong. :(.

[greywolf]

It's the eve of compulsory PSIP compliance. The channel 26 upshift problem in Chicago has been corrected. Others should be fixed by 2/1/05 also.

[Rick Sass]

The channel 58 upshift problem in Milwaukee is fixed!

[jason_j_a]

According to a post in the AVS Forums.. the FCC allowed for a 2 week extension for compliance.

[paulj]

Great. Now that most of the network HD broadcasts are on DirecTV and I've gotten rid of my antenna they fix the problem!

paul

[jsmoovey2004]

I finally figured out how to fix the three ss cbs sub channels in milwaukee, and now they fixed it.. Anywho, if the problem still exists, here are the codes:



58-1 is 4828 /Server/A0013c74f:87:6:0
58-2 is 4823 /Server/A0011ef5b:87:7:0
58-3 is 4813 /Server/A00115d9b:87:7:0
58-4 is 4815 /Server/A00115d9c:87:7:0
58-5 is 4817 /Server/A00115d9d:87:7:0
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MUST TYPE tivosh AT BASH PROMPT
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
58-1 (SET TO OTHER LOCATION THAT'S NOT IS USE)
==============================================



set db [dbopen]

puts "Fixing local subchannel shift"

RetryTransaction {
set tempind [db $db open /Server/A0013c74f:87:6:0]
set chandef [dbobj $tempind get "ChannelDefinition"]
dbobj $chandef set "ProgramNumber" 2
}

puts "Finished"




(Hit Enter to Finsh - Then Type exit)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
58-2 (SET TO SUB CHANNEL 1)
===========================



set db [dbopen]

puts "Fixing local subchannel shift"

RetryTransaction {
set tempind [db $db open /Server/A0011ef5b:87:7:0]
set chandef [dbobj $tempind get "ChannelDefinition"]
dbobj $chandef set "ProgramNumber" 3
}

puts "Finished"



(Hit Enter to Finsh - Then Type exit)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
58-3 (SET TO SUB CHANNEL 2)
===========================



set db [dbopen]

puts "Fixing local subchannel shift"

RetryTransaction {
set tempind [db $db open /Server/A00115d9b:87:7:0]
set chandef [dbobj $tempind get "ChannelDefinition"]
dbobj $chandef set "ProgramNumber" 65535
}

puts "Finished"


(Hit Enter to Finsh - Then Type exit)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[thecrave]

Anyone have any update on this issue? I'm in Buffalo and have problems with PBS being shifted.

Or should I hack the HR10-250 with the aforementioned mod?