DirecTV HD DVR HR10-250 Upgrade Thread

[Anubys]

Originally posted by tivoupgrade
Not sure what the source of this comment is; we responded to all of your emails with same content and observations provided in this thread.... we did provide the service to you as contracted and our scripts do set acoustic management on for add-on drives for these units.

OK...here's a record of the e-mails...

Hello

I sent you a support e-mail days ago. I was under the impression that you respond within one hour during business days (?)

I sent you a maxtor 250 GB drive to be set-up as a Add on a HD-Tivo. The installation went fine but the hard drive is VERY loud with constant clicking sound when it's writing or reading. I know the sound is only from the drive you guys configured because stuff that I had recorded pre-upgrade do not make the sound when I watch them.

I need to know if you turned on the acoustic management to quiet or what the problem is. I need to know if this is something you can fix.

Can someone please give me a call or respond to my questions?

thanks!

Anubys note: I fixed the spelling from "Quite" to "Quiet"
___________________________

Hazem -

Its possible that one of your drives is failing; we do not provide support for user-supplied hardware, however. My only recommendation would be to either send your unit for a recertification so we can diagnose the problem.
We did run diagnostics on your drive and it should have been set for acoustic management as part of the configuration we did.

Thx,
Lou Jacob
PTVupgrade
___________________________

lots of questions:

1. do I need to send you the entire unit? once the two drives are married, I can't remove the new drive, can I?

2. if yes to the first question, how long would it take? and how much?

3. Is it cheaper to just get a new drive (there's one at Outpost right now for $119) and send it to you? I can then try to return the old maxtor for a refund or exchange...

4. When I sent you the drive, it was in the original box, you guys did not ship the box back with it...am I in trouble without the box (in terms of return/exchange)?

thanks!

Anubys: Deleted URL to the Outpost Hard drive
____________________________

Hazem,

Please check your email, I sent you a response detailing all of this info right after you sent your original support email.

Steve.

____________________________
Reply from me (Anubys = Hazem!)

I checked my spam/junk folder and I do not see your e-mail. I really need to know the answers to my questions. Any chance you can forward your e-mail to this address?

People on the forum seem sure that the AM is not set to quiet. I'm going to try to do it myself which is annoying since I send it to you guys just to avoid this sort of thing. Any reason I should not try?

thanks again for any advice...

___________________________

Hazem -

The answer to your question is BELOW; please see MY response! :-)

Thanks,
Lou
_________________________

End of E-mail trail



Anubys: By below, I'm guessing Lou meant the e-mail where he tells me my drive is failing. It makes no sense to refer me to their original response when my e-mail to them says I didn't get any response in the first place.

Look, I don't really care. I'm not asking for my money back or anything. E-mail responses where quick (if you assume there was a problem with my e-mail for the initial response). it just didn't help me. The best tech support I got was from Doug, who directed me to where I can do it. That's all I needed.

The only complaint I have is that clearly my drive was not set to Quiet. my recommendation to PTV is to include that as an option on the web site.

I'm not upset. It was easy to fix. I like doing stuff like that. PTV was quick and the price was reasonable. I'm going to upgrade my HD-Tivo to two 500 GB drives as soon as the price is below $500 (for both). I have no problem doing it with PTV upgrade again.

[weaknees]

We've seen most be about 2/3 of an inch from the edge of the HDMI card to the TwinBreeze. We haven't noticed any actually touching the card, so this may be an earlier box.

Depending on where the factory bracket sits (it's just adhered down with double-sided tape) this may shift the final bracket position a bit, but again, we haven't seen much variation there.

You might try to change where the bracket is screwed down to the unit - you could try to move one air hole up and see if you can get it to leave more space but still sit securely.

Michael

[Darin]

Originally posted by Anubys
Thanks Pbolya for the warning about the gold pin. This and the "white ribbon" were the two things I went directly to.
Ok, I'm expecting to come home to both my new hard drive, and bracket, waiting on my front porch to upgrade my unit tonight. I've searched the forums for a "white ribbon" issue, but didn't really find anything. Is there something I should be aware of here?

Thanks!

[aejanis]

The white ribbon that connects the front panel controls to the mainboard...

Don't touch it...if it comes loose (on some of the early series 2 DTivos) it will cause a problem...Don't know if that has carried over to the HDTiVo, but I don't want to be the first to find out.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105719

[weaknees]

Originally posted by Darin
Ok, I'm expecting to come home to both my new hard drive, and bracket, waiting on my front porch to upgrade my unit tonight. I've searched the forums for a "white ribbon" issue, but didn't really find anything. Is there something I should be aware of here?

Thanks!

Also known as the "cable of death," we have a sticky post about it at the top of the forum.

Long story short - the ribbon cable that goes from the motherboard into the front panel is very sensitive on series 2 units. If all the way or partially out when the unit is booted, it can cause permanent damage to the motherboard making the unit inoperative via remote control or front panel buttons. We haven't (fortunately) seen if this is a problem on HR10-250s, but please exercise caution here. Make sure you can't see any of the silver contacts on the bottom of the cable before you power up the unit.

Michael

[Anubys]

Originally posted by Darin
Ok, I'm expecting to come home to both my new hard drive, and bracket, waiting on my front porch to upgrade my unit tonight. I've searched the forums for a "white ribbon" issue, but didn't really find anything. Is there something I should be aware of here?

Thanks!

yep. it's very important. When you open the unit and you're facing the front, there will be a white ribbon connected to the board and into the front of the unit. Because all the new cables will be concentrated there, you will have a very hard time not hitting it. If this cable becomes dislodged, even slightly, and you power-up your unit, the machine is dead and cannot be repaired.

So you MUST make sure that this white cable is secure before you close things up and power the unit.

The Twinbreeze instructions are very good about showing you the cable using pictures.

[weaknees]

Looks like we're all in agreement here . . .

[Anubys]

talk about service! three replies about the white cable!

[Darin]

Ah, ok. Thanks everyone. :)

[Darin]

Ok, now that I'm getting close, I'm starting to get my ducks in a row, and I have a couple more questions. My intent is to make a back-up of my original drive (without recordings), skip the step of confirming the backup is good (because I'm lazy and impatient, but I may back it up twice if that part goes fast), bless the new drive, and put it all back together. I know nothing about linux commands, but I can follow directions as easily as the next guy. I've upgraded both my series 1 SD tivo and my sister's series 2 SD tivo successfully, so I'm not overly concerned, just want to make sure I've got the commands right. So I've found two posts in this thread that recap the steps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1988222#post1988222

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2046838#post2046838

The first one says to mount using:

mount /dev/hda /mnt

The second one says to use:

mkdir /mnt/dos
mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/dos

Is the mkdir command in the second one necessary? I'm assuming this is just making a directory on my PC's boot drive to place the backup in, and without that step, it will just go to the root (where I can move it later)?Why the "1" in "hda1" for the drive designation?

The backup commands are also a little different, but I'm assuming that's just because the second one has created a directory just for the backup file, so it has to direct the file into that location (?)

Just want to make sure I've got it all correct. :)

[weaknees]

The "1" means to use the first partition. If your c: drive's main storage area is later, adjust accordingly.

The /mnt/dos is just a sub-directory of /mnt. We don't see any reason for bothering with that.

Michael

[Darin]

Ah, ok, thanks. If the 1 is omitted on a dual partition drive, does it fail, or does it assume the first partition? And at the risk of stating the obvious, I'd just change it to 2 if my HD has two partitions, and I specifically want it saved in the second partition?

Also, is it safe to assume that since I'm just doing an OS backup, and not saving the recordings, that there wouldn't be much time savings in bothering with enabling DMA beforehand?

[weaknees]

Actually, you should enable DMA - it could make a big difference timewise.

I haven't done the hda without a number recently that I can remember, but I'm pretty sure it defaults to 1. The key here is just that you need a FAT partition to write the image file.

Once you mount, you can see exactly where you are by switching there and listing the directory:

cd /mnt
ls

That works on most Linux systems.

Michael

[Darin]

Ok, thanks again. :)

[pbolya]

Originally posted by weaknees
We've seen most be about 2/3 of an inch from the edge of the HDMI card to the TwinBreeze. We haven't noticed any actually touching the card, so this may be an earlier box.

Depending on where the factory bracket sits (it's just adhered down with double-sided tape) this may shift the final bracket position a bit, but again, we haven't seen much variation there.

You might try to change where the bracket is screwed down to the unit - you could try to move one air hole up and see if you can get it to leave more space but still sit securely.

Michael Michael,
I tried to mount the bracket one whole up and that did leave much more space between the pin and the bracket but than it was sitting on an angle on the original bracket. Now that I straightened out the pin a little bit and added separators it works perfectly so I rather have the bracket in the proper position (I could have made it secure in that position too but it looks much more secure this way). I just need to make sure that I put the plastic separator back if I ever need to shake the unit. ;)

There is absolutely no chance for the cable of death (white ribbon) to dislodge as the bracket fan housing is pushing the cable down (had to push it down carefully until it banded enough to fit the bracket). Now the fan housing sits on the top of the ribbon so it is not going anywhere. If I make it sound that we should be surprised that my machine even boots I apologize. Actually it wasn't bad at all (little bending here, little straightening out there and a lot of cable tucking). All is well if it ends well.

[weaknees]

Originally posted by pbolya
There is absolutely no chance for the cable of death (white ribbon) to dislodge as the bracket fan housing is pushing the cable down (had to push it down carefully until it banded enough to fit the bracket). Now the fan housing sits on the top of the ribbon so it is not going anywhere. If I make it sound that we should be surprised that my machine even boots I apologize. Actually it wasn't bad at all (little bending here, little straightening out there and a lot of cable tucking). All is well if it ends well.

Actually, that's not the "cable of death." If that one get's dislodged, the TiVo just won't start up at all. The "cable of death" goes from the mobo to the front of the machine, right over the inputs for the RF connectors.

Michael

[pbolya]

Originally posted by weaknees
Actually, that's not the "cable of death." If that one get's dislodged, the TiVo just won't start up at all. The "cable of death" goes from the mobo to the front of the machine, right over the inputs for the RF connectors.

Michael Now you are scaring me. That is where I tucked all the cambles away. Oh well it is done now and I hope I will never need to tuch it again. No wait I hope I do. That would mean that I have to 500GB discs in my hand to upgrade to 1TB (never hurts to dream).

[Anubys]

Originally posted by weaknees
Actually, that's not the "cable of death." If that one get's dislodged, the TiVo just won't start up at all. The "cable of death" goes from the mobo to the front of the machine, right over the inputs for the RF connectors.

Michael

And this is really my only criticism of the Twinbreeze: the jumble of cables around the "cable of death" is really unfortunate. I can certainly sympathize with the limited space and I think the Twinbreeze is wonderful, but I would've felt a lot better had there been a way to tuck all those cables neatly and/or away from the cable of death (I love that name!). The power cables are longer than necessary and the hard plastic tips must really be jammed on top of the cable of death in order to close the lid.

Heck, maybe LONGER power cable would work better...then you can stretch them away from the cable of death and into the open space on the left front side (as you're facing the front of the unit).

Weaknees: I love the twinbreeze, I think it's great...I'm just trying to see if it can be even better!

[aaronwt]

I just tied everything together with some ty-raps. it makes it much neater. And gets everything out of the way. Of course that was my second installation. The first one was a bit messier. I'll have to open it up sometime and clean it up so it looks as good as the second one. Although I'm not in any rush to crack it open.

[Anubys]

Originally posted by aaronwt
I just tied everything together with some ty-raps. it makes it much neater. And gets everything out of the way. Of course that was my second installation. The first one was a bit messier. I'll have to open it up sometime and clean it up so it looks as good as the second one.

Once you tie them together, where do you put them? I couldn't find an empty spot where I could tuck them neatly...that middle part is a jungle of cables...

Working against me is I don't have much patience...so I just stuffed them in there and closed the lid...then I just imagine they're in there neatly :)

[gr8reb8]

Originally posted by Darin
Ok, now that I'm getting close, I'm starting to get my ducks in a row, and I have a couple more questions. My intent is to make a back-up of my original drive (without recordings), skip the step of confirming the backup is good (because I'm lazy and impatient, but I may back it up twice if that part goes fast), bless the new drive, and put it all back together. I know nothing about linux commands, but I can follow directions as easily as the next guy. I've upgraded both my series 1 SD tivo and my sister's series 2 SD tivo successfully, so I'm not overly concerned, just want to make sure I've got the commands right. So I've found two posts in this thread that recap the steps:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1988222#post1988222

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2046838#post2046838

The first one says to mount using:

mount /dev/hda /mnt

The second one says to use:

mkdir /mnt/dos
mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/dos

Is the mkdir command in the second one necessary? I'm assuming this is just making a directory on my PC's boot drive to place the backup in, and without that step, it will just go to the root (where I can move it later)?Why the "1" in "hda1" for the drive designation?

The backup commands are also a little different, but I'm assuming that's just because the second one has created a directory just for the backup file, so it has to direct the file into that location (?)

Just want to make sure I've got it all correct. :)

Darin,

I wrote the procedure I had to follow to get it to work. (the second post).
If I attempted the mount command without the mkdir command first, it would not mount. I used the boot disk mentioned in the message. Not sure why the mount works (without the mkdir first) for some but I know that it will NOT work on my system. My procedure (using the mkdir first) worked good for me and it is still running fine, (knock on wood) and I had seen so many messages with the Linux commands with various mistakes (usually corrected in a later message) that I decided to write my experience and double checked the commands and syntax.

Good luck.

[dswallow]

"mount" makes a logical connection point in your directory structure; the directory you specify becomes the root of what you mounted. By mounting something to "/mnt" you're taking over that point entirely for your connection to the other drive. By creating a subdirectory and mounting to it, you're providing room for other subdirectories to be created and connected to other mount points within the "/mnt" directory.

If you know you don't need to mount other file systems there, there's nothing wrong with not using the subdirectory.

[such]

Did my upgrade last night. Attempted a backup of my factory drive, blessed a new 250Gb, and installed with the twinbreeze bracked. All worked as planned, now ahve 63 HD hours. Not as painful as I imagined after doing some advance reading.

Would be great if someone would post a guide, navigating through this thread is confusing and time consuming.

A couple of things to note, I added a Maxtor drive, didn't change the factory settings to quiet mode (couldn't find it on the CD they shipped MaxBlast3). The unit is definately a bit warmer and louder than before, but all seems to be working 12 hours later.

[Anubys]

Originally posted by dswallow
amset is a utility Maxtor provides that lets you set the acoustical management options on the drives; it's run from a bootable DOS diskette.

Here's info on the utility from Maxtor: http://maxtor.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/maxtor.cfg/php/enduser/olh_adp.php?p_faqid=1200

Here's a place you can get a DOS boot disk image: http://bootdisk.com (I generally use the Dr DOS version for this sort of thing)

You'd need to remove the disk, connect it to your PC and boot from the diskette and run the utility. Just make sure you don't boot into Windows with the TiVo hard drive connected. If you're up to it, it couldn't hurt to confirm the acoustic management was configured properly.

Such: Here's Doug's advice on how to set the amset to quiet. Those 2 web sites had everything that you need in case you hear a lot of noise from the hard drive. It worked like a charm for me.

[weaknees]

Originally posted by Anubys
...the jumble of cables around the "cable of death" is really unfortunate. I can certainly sympathize with the limited space and I think the Twinbreeze is wonderful, but I would've felt a lot better had there been a way to tuck all those cables neatly and/or away from the cable of death (I love that name!). The power cables are longer than necessary and the hard plastic tips must really be jammed on top of the cable of death in order to close the lid....Weaknees: I love the twinbreeze, I think it's great...I'm just trying to see if it can be even better!
By now we have upgraded a pretty significant number of these units, and I'm pretty comfortable saying that the cables that lie on top the front-panel ribbon cable are not going to dislodge it. If anything, they tend to push down on the cable when the lid is on, which is fine. If you have actually tried to pull it, you'll notice that it is in quite firmly, and some cables resting on it is not going to do harm.

In fact, unlike in the non-HD Series 2 units, the placement of the OTA tuners in the HD box makes it tougher to dislodge the cable when you are removing the factory drive/bracket.

So generally, we make a big deal about that cable in the instructions because it is important to watch for. That having been said, we have have never heard of the cable coming out as a result of the power/IDE cables that lie near the front-panel cable.

Michael

[kkluba]

I've been reading in the other forums of the very recent success of some who've successfully gotten their USB ports live and are networking the HR10-250. With Tivoweb, YAC and other add-ons I find essential this is good news. Looking forward to seeing it become more mainstream...

[RC3105]

don't expect to see the sw to do that here - the copyright holders are not overly fond of TCF since you can't even link to there from here

[kkluba]

Yeah I know RC. Just wanted to let folks here know that it can be done and that its very frikkin cool. I'm stalling a bit, don't want to be an early adopter on this one.

[RC3105]

dd if=/dev/hda3 of=kern3.dd
dd if=/dev/hda6 of=kern6.dd
bootpage -p /dev/hda > boot_parms.txt

will back up everything that gets changed, go for it

watching the background tuner via streaming to an xbox is just TOO cool

(xbox can even drive a hdtv with the right cable)

[Darin]

Well, I didn't have the chance to do my upgrade the other night after all. But now I have a couple more questions... is the LBA48 boot CD able to "see" drives connected to a separate IDE controller, or do they need to be connected to the ports on the motherboard. If the IDE controller CAN be used, what are the commands to list or view the connected drives, so I can figure out which one is which? If it must be the motherboard controller, does it matter that they aren't LBA48?

[aaronwt]

I Thought it needed to be on the MB controller. I know when I tried it, nothing was seen from either of my Promise contollers. It only saw the drives connected to the motherboard.

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by Darin
Well, I didn't have the chance to do my upgrade the other night after all. But now I have a couple more questions... is the LBA48 boot CD able to "see" drives connected to a separate IDE controller, or do they need to be connected to the ports on the motherboard. If the IDE controller CAN be used, what are the commands to list or view the connected drives, so I can figure out which one is which? If it must be the motherboard controller, does it matter that they aren't LBA48?


The LBA48 CD will not recognize external IDE controllers (eg Promise, Maxtor (ata/133 promise)).

It doesn't matter, within the context of your question, if you have a "standard" ata/66 IDE controller in your PC, the LBA48 CD should effectively address the full range of your large drives when you boot with the LBA48 CD.

Lots of discussions here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83342) on issues of LBA48 and the 137GB limitation (some discussion of PC hardware and what the issues are...).

[Weez]

Originally posted by kkluba
Yeah I know RC. Just wanted to let folks here know that it can be done and that its very frikkin cool. I'm stalling a bit, don't want to be an early adopter on this one.

As an early adopter, I can tell you it was easy to do and nothing like having ftp, telnet, tivoweb and other tools were not allowed to talk about up and running on the HR10-250.

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by Weez
As an early adopter, I can tell you it was easy to do and nothing like having ftp, telnet, tivoweb and other tools were not allowed to talk about up and running on the HR10-250.


FYI - we'll be making some announcements here at TC shortly with more details... sneak peek: we'll have an offering and some tools to make networking your HR10-250 a snap; and it will be soon. Here is a link to join the mailing list (http://www.ptvupgrade.com/subscribe.html) (subscribe to the Series2 networking list).

[kkluba]

Weez - you're far more courageous than I and probably a better Tivo hack as well.

Tivoupgrade - I'm glad and impressed to hear you guys are on it so quickly. I think you'll generate a lot of new upgrade customers with the addition of networking. Count me in...

[such]

Can you change the acoustic management setting on a drive that has already been installed/married in the HD-Tivo? I will likely do this as my unit is humming like ac compressor!

[weaknees]

Originally posted by such
Can you change the acoustic management setting on a drive that has already been installed/married in the HD-Tivo? I will likely do this as my unit is humming like ac compressor!

Sure. Changing this setting has no effect on the other data on the drive. Just take the usual precautions, and be sure not to boot the drive into XP or 2000.

Michael

[Anubys]

Originally posted by such
Can you change the acoustic management setting on a drive that has already been installed/married in the HD-Tivo? I will likely do this as my unit is humming like ac compressor!

I just did it a few days ago and it was real easy...go up about 6-7 posts, you'll see another post from me about it that includes a quote from Doug about how to do it...

[jayerndl]

I am in the process of copying my original WD disk to a new Maxtor and I want to preserve recordings. I used the following command:

mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hda | mfsrestore -zi - /dev/hde (hda-original WD is primary master on promise IDE controller, hde-new Maxtor primary master on builtin IDE controller)

Everything was going well, it was more than 1/2 done after 2 hours. Then it started going very slow. It then started to copy about 4% (10GB) per hour. So it was going to take another 10+ hours. I stopped it and started a dd copy with:

dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hde bs=1024k

Does anyone have any idea why the backup/restore slowed down? BTW, I am using the ptv mfstools w/large disk support disk that was referenced earlier in this thread. All disks were recognized with the proper size and partition info during bootup. I have verified that I have DMA enabled. It appears that it should take approx. 3-4 hours to do the copy. Does that seem about right? Thanks in advance for any help.

Jay

[weaknees]

I haven't watched a "Tao" backup that carefully recently, but I seem to remember that they move faster and slower, depending on what streams they find.

Michael

[such]

One last question before I crack my hdTivo for "hopefully" the last time. Has anyone had any performance issues with setting a Maxtor to Quiet mode? I have a 7200 250Gb drive.

[weaknees]

We haven't. All QuickView drives are set that way from the factory, and we've had no performance issues whatsoever.

Michael

[bernaise]

I just had my hr10-250 die yesterday after upgrading it with the Weaknees Twinbreeze setup about 2 weeks ago and everything running fine. I had problems with the system being noisey in my entertainment center. It sounded like the fan was loud. I raised the unit up onto hockey pucks and this helped but you could still hear it a little bit. I made sure that everything was mounted correctly and that the fan wasn't too tight and it was balanced. All was fine. In fact, the upgrade kit is awesome. I'm not saying that it had anything to do with the failure at all. But yesterday it sounded like a jet engine and then both drives started clicking. I never got past the Welcome, Powering Up screen. Both drives (factory and a fluid bearing Western Digital WD2500PB) were clicking. I unhooked everything from the entertainment center and took it to my work area and cracked the case. I removed the power connector power from the second drive and reapplied power to the system, to my surprise, everything sounded fine. Drive powered up and no clicking. I then tried the same with only powering the added drive. I got the same result. So, seperately both drives are fine, but when everything is all plugged in together, the system takes a dump and the drives sound horrible. I went ahead and put my original backup image on my factory drive and everything is working fine again, but am I now screwed and can't do the 2 drive setup? I called DirecTV and they are shipping me a replacement, but is it a power supply issue or something else? I'm stumped and had a ton of stuff recorded that I lost. Is this something I should worry about with the replacement? Could hooking everything up with a 2 drive setup be taxing the power supply to the point of death? I'm stumped, please help. Thanks in advance.

[aejanis]

Sounds to me like you have a powersupply problem (not able to power everything).

[weaknees]

We haven't seen that before either - could it be a bad power splitter? When you boot one drive, are you still using the power splitter? We haven't seen any of our power splitters go bad, but you could be the first . . . just a thought.

Michael

[bernaise]

Thanks for the quick replies. Yes, I was still connected to the power splitter when I was running my tests. Now that I took it back to factory default, the splitter is out. It, so far is running okay in the default setup, but now I'm a little timid to upgrade the new one. Are the power supplies in these things too weak or is there something I'm doing wrong? Also, any ideas on quieting the fan noise? The system is really quiet again without the extra fan. But when I was testing everything in my work area and the system was open, I couldn't hear any excessive noise. I wonder if it's because I have a builtin wood entertainment center and it just vibrates in that.

[Anubys]

I'm also in the same boat...did the upgrade a few of weeks ago...just had to go through the process of setting the maxtor drive to quiet...but in the past two days, there's this new, LOUD, vibration noise...

didn't sound like a drive spinning, more like a fan...I was going to wait till the weekend to take the unit apart and see if I made some screw too tight or too loose...so I'm curious to know: did you try just disconnecting the fan?

my unit ran very cool before the upgrade (39-41 degrees)...so I'm not that concerned about heat...FYI: I don't have a wood cabinet...

[weaknees]

The power supplies are plenty adequate in those units for two drives - just like all DirecTiVos to date.

As far as the fan noise, we really haven't heard it. Did you install with the rubber grommets? Is each screw tightened about the same amount so that the case of the fan isn't being twisted?

Michael

[Anubys]

Originally posted by weaknees
The power supplies are plenty adequate in those units for two drives - just like all DirecTiVos to date.

As far as the fan noise, we really haven't heard it. Did you install with the rubber grommets? Is each screw tightened about the same amount so that the case of the fan isn't being twisted?

Michael

Yes I did install the rubber grommets. I TRIED to tighten the screws about the same (not too much, not too little)...I'll open it up and take a look...I would think if that were the problem, the noise would've been there all along...

I don't even know if it IS the fan yet, mind you!

[weaknees]

OK - thanks for the info. Keep us posted.

One other possibility is that a cable is resting on a fan. We specifically chose the length of the cables we send to avoid this as much as possible, but it's still possible in certain places.

Michael

[aaronwt]

Originally posted by such
One last question before I crack my hdTivo for "hopefully" the last time. Has anyone had any performance issues with setting a Maxtor to Quiet mode? I have a 7200 250Gb drive.

In the 1.5 months I used my 1st HDTiVo before the upgrade, If I switched tuners, the picture would sometimes freeze. If I backed up and replayed it was fine so all the info was on the disc(this is with the stock WD drive. )Now when I upgraded(2 Maxtor drives), my first set of drives were set on performance. They were very loud, but I noticed that when switching between tuners, I never had the picture freeze for a second like the WD(which are set to quiet or equivalent- at least thats what AMSET showed me)Anyway the picture would never freeze. Now when I put the Maxtor drives back in, after setting them to Quiet, They were just as quiet as thw WD drive but it would freeze again when switching between tuners. Both HDTiVos act this way and they did with the stock drive. So I guess setting it to Quiet causes this but it is not a problem and the drives are very quiet.

[bmel]

I just completed an upgrade with the weaknees 160 gb hd and the twin breeze. I seem to be stuck on the welcome powering up screen. What should I do next?
Brian

[weaknees]

Are you sure you set the jumper properly on the Western Digital drive? Are you sure the IDE cable is properly plugged into the motherboard?

Michael

[bmel]

Thanks, reseated all the ide connetors. Works fine. 52 hours of hd recording available.
Brian

[weaknees]

Glad to hear it!

Michael

[shutitdotnet]

Im going to attempt to add a Maxtor 250 gig to the HD10-250's WD250, however when im trying to make a backup, I have all the IDE cables set correctly on my puter but it wont power up, i suspect it to be an issue with the 250w powersupply, but has anyone run into this where two large drives drain all the power and are unable to boot.. also should i just tell my boss to buck up and get a better computer.. also I have my NT5 machine at home i would like to do it on, but i read somewhere that you shouldnt make a back up or boot up to make a back up with the primary C drive as NTFS.. does the C: drive have to be formatted with FAT32..??
Thanks in advance

[weaknees]

We haven't seen that - if you simply remove the power cable from the drive, the PC will still boot?

Michael

[shutitdotnet]

Okay sorry got past that, Im now at a point where im trying to use MFSrestore to copy my backup of Drive A from my windows drive C:(tivo.bak) onto the new Maxtore for testing before i try to add the new drive.. I think im doing this right, again sorry if i seem ignorant.. okay so I run this command "mfsrestore - s 127 -bzpi /mntdos/tivo.bak /dev/hdb " after I mounted my C: drive it gets to about 6% and I get "Restore Failed : Decompression error .%) (97.86 % compression)

any ideas?
I'm following to the T Hinsdale how to guide..

I'm using the MFStools 2.0 with large drive support that was mentioned in the how to guide..

any help again is greatly appreciated..

Steve

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
Okay sorry got past that, Im now at a point where im trying to use MFSrestore to copy my backup of Drive A from my windows drive C:(tivo.bak) onto the new Maxtore for testing before i try to add the new drive.. I think im doing this right, again sorry if i seem ignorant.. okay so I run this command "mfsrestore - s 127 -bzpi /mntdos/tivo.bak /dev/hdb " after I mounted my C: drive it gets to about 6% and I get "Restore Failed : Decompression error .%) (97.86 % compression)

any ideas?
I'm following to the T Hinsdale how to guide..

I'm using the MFStools 2.0 with large drive support that was mentioned in the how to guide..

any help again is greatly appreciated..

Steve

Sounds like you have a bad backup.

[shutitdotnet]

Thats the thing i've tried creating a new backup multiple times and all goes well I rebooted and verified the tivo.bak was in my C directory and I burned it to a CD just for safe keeping.. it just wont restore from the C drive to my upgrade drive.. does it sound like im doing everything correctly???

[shutitdotnet]

I have a question about this
"We used our standard backup string:

mfsbackup –f 9999 –1so /image.bak /dev/hdc

The resulting image is 1486 MB."

According to the hinsdale how-to guide it says to use the string
"mfsbackup -f 9999 -6so /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc dev/hdb"
for backing up series 2 Tivos, and Directivos.. so im kinda confused is it -1s0 or -6so ??

sorry for the dumb questions but linux is not my bag...

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
Thats the thing i've tried creating a new backup multiple times and all goes well I rebooted and verified the tivo.bak was in my C directory and I burned it to a CD just for safe keeping.. it just wont restore from the C drive to my upgrade drive.. does it sound like im doing everything correctly???

Try backing up again... and before rebooting your PC, type "sync" and instead of pushing the button to reboot it, type "reboot" - then try to verify...

[shutitdotnet]

Here I go again, I'm trying to be descriptive as possible.
Hardward config is as follows :
Primary Master = windows C: Drive
Primary Slave = Maxtor 250G drive for upgrade
Secondary Master = WD250G stock Tivo Drive
Secondary Slave = CDROM

I have check all the jumpers and they are correct.
Booted to MFSTools 2.0 w/ large disk support.
Checked drive sizes they all were fine.

1. I mounted the C drive as follows :
mkdir /mnt/dos
mount /dev/hda1 /mnt/dos

2. Backed up Drive A(WD250) to C Drive :
mfsbackup -f 9999 -6so /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc /dev/hdb
this completed fine with the size at 1486 or something

3. Restored Backup from C drive to Maxtor 250 gig to test :
mfsrestore -s 127 -bzpi /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdb

this is where it gets stuck I get to the screen that says "
"Restore Failed Decompression error .%) (97.86% compression)

And I've tried to do this procedure a couple times but it keeps stopping at this one place, im begging for help, please chime in there weakness =o(

[tivoupgrade]

Did you try the "sync" and the "reboot" prior to rebooting your PC (after the backup was complete?)

[shutitdotnet]

yes but again im desperate Im doing this for my boss, LOL soo let me try one more time.. thanx i really appreciate your help

[Lee L]

They were very loud, but I noticed that when switching between tuners, I never had the picture freeze for a second like the WD(which are set to quiet or equivalent- at least thats what AMSET showed me)

Dumb question. Can AMSET be used to change the settings for WD drives, I thought you could only set Maxtors? My HR10-250 is in a wood cabinet and I do not care how loud it is at all. I would love to set the drives to whatever gave me the best performance. I would also love to set the WD I added to my SD DVR40 to quiet as well.

[shutitdotnet]

NO DICE.. =o( I did the sync and reboot commands after the backup, after the reboot i mounted the C drive and attempted the MFSrestore . I get this message
Restoring 93 of 1486 MegaBytes (6.30%) (97.86% compression)
Then the same error "Retore Failed etc etc etc"

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
NO DICE.. =o( I did the sync and reboot commands after the backup, after the reboot i mounted the C drive and attempted the MFSrestore . I get this message
Restoring 93 of 1486 MegaBytes (6.30%) (97.86% compression)
Then the same error "Retore Failed etc etc etc"

Next thing I would try is putting the drive you are backing up onto a different IDE chain; so try secondary master, instead of primary slave...

... oh, and make sure there is plenty of room on the drive on which you are saving the backup - could it be full?

[shutitdotnet]

Again im a novice at the linux commands soo if I were to change the maxtor(upgrade) drive to Secondary Maser my mfsrestore command would be
mfsrestore -s 127 -bzpi mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc is that correct im guessing the last part points to where i want the restore to go and If I remember correctly the hdc is the secondary master.. and the drive is an 80 gig and the backup I think only comes out to be 195 megs tops.. soo its not the drive, Im thinking about taking the drives home and working with them on my computer over the weekend.. is this going to be a problem seeing im running window 2K pro, i read somewhere to make sure you dont boot into windows or else it will write something to the drives to make them un-useable.. if thats the case i can always format an 80 gig i have laying around with FAT32 98se or something.. thanks for the help.. i cant thank you enough I just hate the thought of turning a nice working piece of machinary of my boss's into a 1000 dollar paper weight.. haha
Late®
Steve

[Runch Machine]

What's up with 9th Tee? Did they go on vacation? I ordered on Sunday August 9th and got the auto response and order number. I haven't received any shipping info or my package and it's been 5 days. I've emailed them twice, once on Wednesday and once on Thursday and have gotten no response.

I have previously ordered from them twice and was impressed with their fast service and quality products. Each time I got an email the next day with tracking info. This time, nothing. 9th tee, are you out there???

[jerrymc]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
Here I go again, I'm trying to be descriptive as possible.
Hardward config is as follows :
Primary Master = windows C: Drive
Primary Slave = Maxtor 250G drive for upgrade
Secondary Master = WD250G stock Tivo Drive

...

2. Backed up Drive A(WD250) to C Drive :
mfsbackup -f 9999 -6so /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc /dev/hdb
this completed fine with the size at 1486 or something



Here's your problem. Your command tries to create a backup file from a PAIR of drives. Since there is nothing on /dev/hdb, your backup is bogus. Drop the "/dev/hdb" from your backup command and you should be good to go.

Good luck!

-Jerry

[edrock200]

ok, what am I doing wrong....

Took out the original drive

made it primary master

made my new 250gb primary slave

booted to lba48 CD and did:

mfsadd -x /dev/hda /dev/hdb

It comes back and says 300 hours added for a total of 500 hours. Sounds good.

Put both drives back in my HD-Tivo, double check jumpers and cabling, etc. All is good but HDTivo still reports 30 hours (upto 200 SD)

Did I do something wrong?

[jerrymc]

Originally posted by edrock200
ok, what am I doing wrong....

Took out the original drive

made it primary master

made my new 250gb primary slave

booted to lba48 CD and did:

mfsadd -x /dev/hda /dev/hdb

It comes back and says 300 hours added for a total of 500 hours. Sounds good.

Put both drives back in my HD-Tivo, double check jumpers and cabling, etc. All is good but HDTivo still reports 30 hours (upto 200 SD)

Did I do something wrong?

Use BlessTiVo.

-Jerry

[edrock200]

Yes I see that earlier in the thread now. Thank you. Do I use the "noswap" option with blesstivo?
*edit* I see now that the large HD iso has noswap auto set.

[edrock200]

That worked! Sweet...63 hours.
Attached a pic with the Weaknees bracket. Pretty easy to install...since I put it in and took it out 4 times to figure out why MFSAdd wasn't working. ;)

*edit* What a cool post to hit 3000 on! :)

[buzzword]

Originally posted by weaknees
We use custom tools here to perform the dual 300 GB drive upgrades, but we'll outline some steps that should do the trick at home. We've tested this method only a bit, but it shares enough with our custom method that we're pretty certain it'll result in a stable upgrade.

The key is that mfstool won't work with partitions larger than 256 GB. So here's a D-I-Y method for making smaller partitions:

1 - Put the HR10-250 image on the 300 GB drive, without expansion. To do this, make a backup and restore the backup to the 300 GB drive under a newer Linux kernel (2.4.18 or newer). Make sure to use only "-zi" as the switch so that you don't expand the image to fill the drive:

mfstool -zi /tivo.bak /dev/hdX

2 - Bless the second 300 GB drive in "noswap" under an OLDER Linux Kernel - the standard boot CD is fine for this. This will create a 127 GB partition on the drive.

BlessTiVo /dev/hdY

3 - "Marry" the two drives by booting them in the HR10-250. You should be able to verify the extra hours in System Information (I don't have the exact number on me, but HD hours should be in the forties).

4 - Attach both drives back to the PC and boot in a NEWER kernel. Then run:

mfsadd -x /dev/hdX /dev/hdY

This will force partitions using the extra space on each drive - and neither drive will have more than (or even close to) 256 GB of space left to partition out.

5 - Put them back in the TiVo and verify the hours.

That should do it!

Michael


Thanks so much for this post. I've had 2 machines with HDMI port failure, the first failed after 3 months, the second (a replacement unit for the first)displayed distinct green bands across the screen, so I'm on my third unit and wanted to preserve my original drive in case I had to return this unit as well (so far it seems to be working, fingers crossed).

In any case, I had a 300mb Quickview drive I bought off Weaknees but hadn't installed yet, I bought a second 300mb Maxtor at Fry's, backed up the original, restored it to the Fry's Max 300, Blessed the Quickview, married the drives, did the MFSadd, it all worked like a charm, 77hrs HD baby!

I figured it was probably a good idea to use the regular drive as the system drive, might as well load the tivo program from the drive with more comprehensive error checking, no?

Anyway, just wanted to thank you for all the time and effort you put in here helping people. I will definitely be buying off of Weaknees again in the future and have recommended your site to friends.

[buzzword]

Originally posted by Anubys
And this is really my only criticism of the Twinbreeze: the jumble of cables around the "cable of death" is really unfortunate. I can certainly sympathize with the limited space and I think the Twinbreeze is wonderful, but I would've felt a lot better had there been a way to tuck all those cables neatly and/or away from the cable of death (I love that name!). The power cables are longer than necessary and the hard plastic tips must really be jammed on top of the cable of death in order to close the lid.

Heck, maybe LONGER power cable would work better...then you can stretch them away from the cable of death and into the open space on the left front side (as you're facing the front of the unit).

Weaknees: I love the twinbreeze, I think it's great...I'm just trying to see if it can be even better!

I found that it helped to replace the power splitter that came with the TwinBreeze (one long power lead, one short lead) with a regular splitter that had two long tails, it allowed me to tuck some of the power lead wired beside the drive (towards the front of the machine) and definitely made for a cleaner install bcause the conectors weren't bunched on top because of the short lead on the supplied splitter.

Weakness, you might reconsider the splitter you're supplying...

[nowaydoc]

<Lurk mode:OFF>

FYI, I am coming out of FOUR YEARS of lurk mode here at TCF to let you guys know that there is now a public hack available to let you enable the Sony IR remote control protocol to control the HR10-250's.
This is important because the Sony remote protocol is much faster and more responsive than the Hughes protocol that shipped with the HR10-250's. It also means that if you have a Series 1 SAT-T60, you can program your RM-Y809 remote to control the HR10-250 as well as your older T60, toggling between which Tivo you want to control by simply pressing Tivo-Pause-#.

</ Lurk mode:back ON>

[weaknees]

Originally posted by buzzword
I found that it helped to replace the power splitter that came with the TwinBreeze (one long power lead, one short lead) with a regular splitter that had two long tails, it allowed me to tuck some of the power lead wired beside the drive (towards the front of the machine) and definitely made for a cleaner install bcause the conectors weren't bunched on top because of the short lead on the supplied splitter.

Weakness, you might reconsider the splitter you're supplying...

Early adopters and early kits got the asymmetrical power splitter, but now we ship (and use) a shorter Y power splitter since the position of our bracket place the two drives' power connectors fairly close to one another. Then, the cable tucks right in front and stays out of the way.

Michael

[pbolya]

Originally posted by nowaydoc
<Lurk mode:OFF>

FYI, I am coming out of FOUR YEARS of lurk mode here at TCF to let you guys know that there is now a public hack available to let you enable the Sony IR remote control protocol to control the HR10-250's.
This is important because the Sony remote protocol is much faster and more responsive than the Hughes protocol that shipped with the HR10-250's. It also means that if you have a Series 1 SAT-T60, you can program your RM-Y809 remote to control the HR10-250 as well as your older T60, toggling between which Tivo you want to control by simply pressing Tivo-Pause-#.

</ Lurk mode:back ON> nowaydoc,
Can you tell us how to do that? I love my Sony Peanut more than any remote in the world (including the Harmony). If I could control both TV's with the basic TV and Amp control it already has I could use the Sony peanut for 80% of what I usually use and 99% of what my wife needs the remote for.

[NJChris]

Woo! Just added a 2nd 250gb drive.. mostly followed this: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2046838#post2046838 and adjusted to just add a 2nd 250gb instead of putting in two new 250gb and using the one in the Tivo as a backup.

I tested the backup and it worked! (logos and all.)

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by jerrymc
Here's your problem. Your command tries to create a backup file from a PAIR of drives. Since there is nothing on /dev/hdb, your backup is bogus. Drop the "/dev/hdb" from your backup command and you should be good to go.

Good luck!

-Jerry

Thanks for the good eye Jerry I was soo busy Friday I didn't realize i was looking at the dual drive backup, so I corrected it this morning. Backup completed successfully, attempted the restore, and I got 7% done and it errored out again, so I'm going to try the other alternative and switch around the IDE config and see if that has anything to do with it. I read somewhere else that if the faster drive 7200 is slave and master is 5400 somewhere that it would cause conflict.. so wish me luck..
LaTe®
Steve

[shutitdotnet]

Woohoooo Managed to get it done finally.!.!.! thanks to all that replied to me.. Now on to working on the second HD10-250 For a second there I thought I had a 1000 dollar paper weight..
LaTe®
Steve

[nowaydoc]

Originally posted by pbolya
nowaydoc,
Can you tell us how to do that? I love my Sony Peanut more than any remote in the world (including the Harmony). If I could control both TV's with the basic TV and Amp control it already has I could use the Sony peanut for 80% of what I usually use and 99% of what my wife needs the remote for.

you'll have to disable the ram disk initialization check, enable bash and/or ethernet, and then run a freeware script to enable the sony IR sets.

Info and details is available at the other place, which can be found by googling for "HR10-250 bounty".

If you want to wait a few weeks or months, PTVupgrade is apparently going to start shipping a new user-friendly CD ROM which enables bash and ethernet

[dwynne]

If These instructions (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2046838#post2046838) are correct, maybe Michael (weaknees) can post them into the first message in this thread?

With 55 pages and counting, it would be nice if the instructions for doing:

a) add a drive to your existing HDTivo

b) replace the existing drive

c) replace the existing drive and add a drive


were all listed together at the start of the thread. Or maybe we could start a new thread that started with the instructions for the 3 things folks might want to do.

I have my drives, I have my bracket, now I just need some free time :)

Dennis

[Darin]

Originally posted by dwynne
If These instructions (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2046838#post2046838) are correct, maybe Michael (weaknees) can post them into the first message in this thread?

With 55 pages and counting, it would be nice if the instructions for doing...
I agree... when I did mine, it took a bit of searching to find all the proper commands. I used that post, but had a coouple of difficulties:

While this may seem stupid to someone who knows a little bit about Linux, it took me a while to figure out that I needed to hit enter after booting up off of the LBA48 CD. I kept trying to enter the commands at the initial "boot" prompt (or whatever the initial prompt is... I've forgotten already).

The other difficulty I had was in mounting the drive to create the backup. I kept getting the error to the effect of "you must specify a file system" (or something like that). I saw one person in the thread that had that problem, but his problem was that he had both hard drives attached to the same IDE port (as master/slave). He had to put them on separate ports. But that wasn't my problem. The drive I was trying to back-up to had two partitions (both fat32). I wanted to back-up to the second partition (so I was using hda2 to specifiy that). It just plain wasn't happy unless I put the back-up on the first partition (hda1). In fact, I'd SWEAR there was a time I tried hda1, and I STILL got that error, but maybe I was confused.

So those are the two stumbling blocks I had, maybe it will help someone else.

[such]

Well, I added a second 250Gb drive a couple weeks ago using the Weaknees bracket. The unit has been operating fine, but I'm beginning to hear a clicking noise during some drive operations, playback and jumps mostly. Hoping my drive is not dying. It's a Maxtor 7200rpm model, I never changed it to quiet mode, will be doing that tonight, hoping that's all it is and not the drive itself......

[pbolya]

Originally posted by Darin
I agree... when I did mine, it took a bit of searching to find all the proper commands. I used that post, but had a coouple of difficulties:

While this may seem stupid to someone who knows a little bit about Linux, it took me a while to figure out that I needed to hit enter after booting up off of the LBA48 CD. I kept trying to enter the commands at the initial "boot" prompt (or whatever the initial prompt is... I've forgotten already).

The other difficulty I had was in mounting the drive to create the backup. I kept getting the error to the effect of "you must specify a file system" (or something like that). I saw one person in the thread that had that problem, but his problem was that he had both hard drives attached to the same IDE port (as master/slave). He had to put them on separate ports. But that wasn't my problem. The drive I was trying to back-up to had two partitions (both fat32). I wanted to back-up to the second partition (so I was using hda2 to specifiy that). It just plain wasn't happy unless I put the back-up on the first partition (hda1). In fact, I'd SWEAR there was a time I tried hda1, and I STILL got that error, but maybe I was confused.

So those are the two stumbling blocks I had, maybe it will help someone else. Darin,
The Hinsdale upgrade guide is updated with the HD TiVo upgrade instructions and I believe it also mentions to put the disks on seperate channels.

[pbolya]

Originally posted by such
Well, I added a second 250Gb drive a couple weeks ago using the Weaknees bracket. The unit has been operating fine, but I'm beginning to hear a clicking noise during some drive operations, playback and jumps mostly. Hoping my drive is not dying. It's a Maxtor 7200rpm model, I never changed it to quiet mode, will be doing that tonight, hoping that's all it is and not the drive itself...... Don't worry. Just set it to quiet and that will be the last time you hear anything from the drive.

[dbuchthal]

Has anyone found a reliable source for 400GB drives yet? I'll pay the "luxury tax" for bigger drives just so I won't need to go through this again. Pricegrabber doesn't even list the Hitachi 7k400. Dell.com has the 7k400, but only the SATA version. CDW.com lists the drive but doesn't have it in stock. I'd love to get dual 400's running before the new TV season starts this fall, but time is running out...

[Darin]

Originally posted by dbuchthal
Dell.com has the 7k400, but only the SATA version.
I thought someone reported earlier that SATA drives also have a parallel interface. I don't have any SATA drives, so I can't confirm, but if true, it seems like you could use that.

Go on! Be the first with 800GB!!!! :D

[dwynne]

Originally posted by Darin
I thought someone reported earlier that SATA drives also have a parallel interface. I don't have any SATA drives, so I can't confirm, but if true, it seems like you could use that.

Go on! Be the first with 800GB!!!! :D

Some SATA drives are actually PATA drives with a converter chip on them. In fact, most are probably made this way. It lets them make a single drive (more or less) with both interfaces. The trouble is there is no EIDE connector on these drives. So INTERNALLY the drive would work, but no easy way to connect it up.

They do make a cheap ($20) SATA adapter - to let you use an EIDE drive with a SATA controller, but I don't think I have seen an adapter to go the other way.

Dennis

[weldon]

You can buy converters that will change SATA to PATA and vice versa. The signals/commands are essentially the same so it's just a matter of changing the way the signals are carried on the cable.

I'd like to see an 800GB TiVo too!

[Darin]

Originally posted by dwynne
The trouble is there is no EIDE connector on these drives.
Hmmm, I thought the post I thought I remember reading said the EIDE connector was on the opposite end of the drive. For some reason, I'm thinking it was dswallow that posted it, but I could be wrong. That was the first time I'd heard that, but not having a need currently for SATA, I just kind of read it & moved on.

I probably just either read it wrong, or I'm having a memory issue related to drug use in the 90s. :D

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Darin
Hmmm, I thought the post I thought I remember reading said the EIDE connector was on the opposite end of the drive. For some reason, I'm thinking it was dswallow that posted it, but I could be wrong. That was the first time I'd heard that, but not having a need currently for SATA, I just kind of read it & moved on.

I probably just either read it wrong, or I'm having a memory issue related to drug use in the 90s. :D
Wasn't me; though I do recall someone saying that around here.

[Anubys]

I also remember the same thing Darin is talking about. As I was doing my research on what kind of drive to get (7200 or 5400, ATA or SATA, 100 or 133...etc.), I remember very well a post saying SATA will NOT work and that it must be ATA...I thought the post was from weaknees or PTVupgrade...

I considered the source a very reliable one...I certainly put Doug in that category so it's very possible that he made the comment...a search on those 3 posters will get you the answer...

[weaknees]

Might have been us - SATA isn't compatible with ATA. We haven't heard of the converters. Those might work, but we haven't tried it.

Michael

[Darin]

Well, it wasn't Doug, but at least I didn't fabricate the post completely:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1990681#post1990681

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally posted by dwynne
Some SATA drives are actually PATA drives with a converter chip on them. In fact, most are probably made this way .....
Dennis

I've been trying to figure out a way to determine native SATA drives (without the bridge chip). Do you know if there is a way?

Thanks

[dwynne]

Originally posted by DCIFRTHS
I've been trying to figure out a way to determine native SATA drives (without the bridge chip). Do you know if there is a way?

Thanks

"Native Command Queuing" should be the key. If the drive claims to do that, then it is likely a native SATA drive. Note that most companies do not sell any NCQ drives right now, nor do most (any?) controllers support it.

Also, Seagate (currently) sells the 7200.7 models and they are supposed to be "non bridged". In tests I have read having SATA drives equals about 0 performance gains and generally just costs you extra money. There is a good reason to buy SATA, however - a lot of motherboards will do RAID 0/1 with the onboard SATA controller - and you can add up to 4 EIDE drives and 2 SATA drives to the same system w/o extra controller cards.

FWW, I have never seen a converter to take a SATA drive and let you use it on an EIDE controller. Not saying they do not exists, just have never seen one - and I don't know why someone would use one as SATA drives cost more, can run longer cables that are easier to connect and block less air flow.

Hitachi/IBM has a 400gb EIDE Deskstar model as well as the SATA drive. Don't know if it is out yet or not.

Link to the drive for sale - out of stock (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100599)

Dennis

[pbolya]

Originally posted by Darin
Well, it wasn't Doug, but at least I didn't fabricate the post completely:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1990681#post1990681 Yes. It was me (I am a little bit behind in reading with work and the Olympics recording on 4 tuners and all).

Since then I saw 3 different implementation of the drive (on paper only of course) one had a SATA only, one had PATA only and one (which is documented by Hitachi) had both SATA and PATA on opposite end of the drive. Since all the website list them similarly there is no way to tell which one it is without calling them. Good luck finding a PATA or SATA/PATA combo though. Also I can not find that picture in the Hitachi web site anymore so maybe the dual interface drive was only a design plan. Although if you can get a converter for $20 than it should cost them less then $5 per unit to make them dual interfaced and that is definitely worth it to not to have to deal with different model numbers.

[pbolya]

Originally posted by dwynne
Link to the drive for sale - out of stock (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=100599)

Dennis $300 ???? That makes you think. That is now getting closer to my price range. Now if they only would have them in stock. Also why is it advetised as Paralel ATA 100 instead of 133?

[dbuchthal]

Originally posted by weldon
You can buy converters that will change SATA to PATA and vice versa. The signals/commands are essentially the same so it's just a matter of changing the way the signals are carried on the cable.
You can't just slap a cable converter in the middle. There is real work to be done to convert from one to the other.

[dwynne]

Originally posted by pbolya
$300 ???? That makes you think. That is now getting closer to my price range. Now if they only would have them in stock. Also why is it advetised as Paralel ATA 100 instead of 133?

The whole listing is a mixed bag - it tells you that it is an ultra 100 ATA drive, then says it has a latching SATA connector, then says the drive is ultra ama/133. Note that the SATA version is shown for $400 and is also OOS.

Parallel ATA is just a new term for EIDE or ATA, just to keep folks from confusing it with SATA. Also, I don't think there are any drives on the market that can move data at the ATA133 speed now - and probably not many that can move it at the AMA100 speed either. The areal density and 7.200 rpm rotation speed make it "impossible". So ditto the 150mb SATA theoretical speeds, which is why they perform no better - and the manufacturers can get away with the converter chips on their SATA drives. Almost all the big drives now are still using 80gb/platter - this big 400gb drive is just 5 platters (not a good thing for heat). I think the latest Seagates are more dense - but they are not offering super large capacity drives now (200gb is their largest) since they refuse or can't put enough platters to get any larger. I assume the extra noise and heat are concerns.

Dennis

[dwynne]

By the way, talking about hard drives for Tivos. I recently found out that Western Digital will extend your warranty from 1 year to 3 years for $15. This is for retail purchased, EIDE (non SATA) drives only. Probably not worth it on the smaller, cheap after rebate drives - migth be worth it for large drives and for Tivo use.

Linky-Poo (http://websupport.wdc.com/store/extwarranty/index.asp?lang=en)


Seagate is now doing 5 years on its drives, but offers nothing larger than 200gb (useless in an HDTivo :0).

Maxtor is also just doing a year, and I have had a high failure rate with them in my upgraded Tivos.

Dennis

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally posted by dwynne
"Native Command Queuing" should be the key. If the drive claims to do that, then it is likely a native SATA drive. Note that most companies do not sell any NCQ drives right now, nor do most (any?) controllers support it.

Also, Seagate (currently) sells the 7200.7 models and they are supposed to be "non bridged". .....

Adaptec sells four controllers that support it, but they call it
"Tagged Command Queuing". (http://ask.adaptec.com/cgi-bin/adaptec_tic.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_sid=sYhv_gjh&p_lva=&p_faqid=11137&p_created=1088113784&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9ncmlkc29ydD0mcF9yb3dfY250PTUmcF9zZWFyY2h fdGV4dD1OYXRpdmUgQ29tbWFuZCBRdWV1aW5nJnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9MyZ wX3Byb2RfbHZsMT0yMjImcF9wcm9kX2x2bDI9MjI1JnBfY2F0X2x2bDE9fmF ueX4mcF9wYWdlPTE*&p_li=)

I have the Seagate drives you mentioned. My searches have turned up no evidence that these drives are "native" SATA, and the Seagate website does not list this "feature". I was glad to hear that you have heard that they are though. Do you have any pages that I could link to? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally posted by pbolya
$300 ???? That makes you think. That is now getting closer to my price range. Now if they only would have them in stock. Also why is it advetised as Paralel ATA 100 instead of 133?

Parallel is the type of interface that has always(?) existed on the ATA drives. It's called Parallel because the data is transmitted over a cable (interface) that has many wires - 40 in the case of PATA. The 80 cable versions include 40 additional ground wires to preserve signal integrity at faster speeds.

Serial ATA transmits data over far fewer wires (2 or 4 I believe). The data is transfered in "single file" fashion.

If you remember the release of CD players, they all had "parallel" DA converters. I don't think you can find a CD player today that doesn't use "serial" or "1 bit" DACs. If i remember correctly, I think Panasonic was one of the first to introduce "single bit" converters, and they enhanced it with MASH ("noise shaping technology").

[RC3105]

not to burst anyone's bubble, but did tivo even fix the 250 gig mfs partition size limit in the hd10-250's?

[dwynne]

Originally posted by DCIFRTHS
I have the Seagate drives you mentioned. My searches have turned up no evidence that these drives are "native" SATA, and the Seagate website does not list this "feature". I was glad to hear that you have heard that they are though. Do you have any pages that I could link to? It would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Test of a Seagate SATA (http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=10&id=817)



Link to a WD SATA, with on board chip (http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=10&id=731&pg=)

I have seen this mentioned other places as well. Like I said, it does not really matter since the drive is not capabile of exceeding the ATA100 max speed.

Note that not all of the 7200.7 drives do the command queue stuff.

Dennis

[DeputyTIVO]

Upgrade done ... thanks to all! Received my Maxtor 250gb/7200/8mb drive today, enabled quiet mode with amset, made a backup, expanded, reinstalled drives with the Weaknees HD Twinbreeze bracket .... 63 HD/426 SD. Awesome!

[wade01]

I'm preparing to add a 250gb drive to my HR10-250. According to previous posts I'll need to use BlessTivo to add the second drive.

However, Hinsdale's updated instructions, that claim to work for the HR10-250, make no mention of BlessTivo instead using mfsadd. So the question is do I use the new Hinsdale instructions, which I've used in the past and am comfortable with, or go with BlessTivo?

If I use the Hinsdale instructions I'll use upgrade configuration #3 to preserve recordings and then upgrade configuration #1 to add the additional drive.

Any help is appreciated!

[weaknees]

Really, with a drive that size, either will work. mfsadd doesn't work for drives over 256 GB, so then you'd need to use BlessTiVo. One advantage for you using mfs tools here is that you can make a backup in the process.

Michael

[wade01]

Thanks Michael! I'll definitely make the backup. After 2 drive failures on my DSR6000 I've learned to backup every time the drive is out of the tivo. Now all I need is the bracket from you guys. FedEx says it should arrive on Wednesday.

[weaknees]

Sounds good - hope you like the bracket!

Michael

[flapbreaker]

Anyone know why I wouldn't be receiving emails when there are new posts even though I have subscribed to this thread? It used to but no anymore.

[weaknees]

Maybe your spam software is catching them?

[Darin]

Some time ago, maybe around six months(?), I suddenly stopped getting email notifications completely from this site, after it working fine for years. They still worked from AVS, and other sites. They were not getting filtered by the spam software. Suddenly, a couple weeks ago, they started working again.

[AbMagFab]

Same here. Stopped a few months ago, started working again a few weeks ago.

[shutitd0tnet]

Hmmmmmmmm... after upgrading to add a second 250 everything worked fine for about a week, 63 hours of HD recording, recorded a bunch of olympics, etc etc.. come Monday Morning the system was locked up, was not able to operate the unit at all so after power cycling the HD10-250 It never got passed Welcome, Powering up.. I thought maybe this could be a heat issue as the HD is in a rack mounted in my server stack.. is there anything i could do to properly diagnose the system without restoring the original drive image to one 250 and testing???
TIA
Steve

[weaknees]

Before restoring, at least run a "quick" test from the manufacturer's diagnostics software. It won't destroy your data (which is likely already gone) but it may tell you which drive is causing problems.

Michael

[shutitd0tnet]

Pardon my ignorance but how do i run the "quick test" from the OEM, I cant get passed the welcome..powering up screen, doesnt go any further, and the LED that usually at least flickers when it gets an IR command does nothing??!!??
Steve

[weaknees]

The test is in your PC - not the TiVo.

[shutitd0tnet]

haha sorry, and by test you mean??? im sorry for asking such stupid questions, but is this a software app I have to download or or this something on the boot CD MFStools 2.0 ?? do you mean to boot my PC with MFS 2.0 ,with both drives attached and see if the size comes up good.. is that a valid test???

[weaknees]

Software from the drive manufacturers. If you have two WDs, you need their DLGDIAG software. If one is a Maxtor, you also need PowerMax. Both run in DOS.

Michael

[shutitd0tnet]

thanx, just another stupid question, should i see the LED on the front of the box flicker when i send an IR command, even if its not completly booted, wouldnt this be something that is held in the system memory, and not on either HDD.. because if im not mistaken Im pretty sure I would see an amber LED light up when i sent a command to it..
Thanks Michael for your speedy replies it makes my job a lot easier
Steve

[shutitdotnet]

Okay here are the test results.. oddly enough.. kinda sorta...
Powered up with just the maxtor 250 gig in my machine, Returned no errors running the quick test... I didnt attempt the indepth test because I didnt want to further FUBAR my bosses Tivo..
Okay pulled it out, created the Diagnostic floppy for the WD and put in the machine alone, went to boot up and didnt even get to the post beep and the computer shut off.. I had to unplud the IEC cable just to get it to boot again but it did the same thing.. SOoOoOo Is it a safe assumption to say the WD250 is toast... At first because I thought maybe the power supply was inadaquate here on the work computer, its a small 250w but my question then would be if it fires the Maxtor Drive why not the WD.. is there a difference in power consumption between the two drives.. or should i quit chasing my tail and go get another Maxtor 250 and start over... ??
Thanks,
Steve

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
Okay here are the test results.. oddly enough.. kinda sorta...
Powered up with just the maxtor 250 gig in my machine, Returned no errors running the quick test... I didnt attempt the indepth test because I didnt want to further FUBAR my bosses Tivo..
Okay pulled it out, created the Diagnostic floppy for the WD and put in the machine alone, went to boot up and didnt even get to the post beep and the computer shut off.. I had to unplud the IEC cable just to get it to boot again but it did the same thing.. SOoOoOo Is it a safe assumption to say the WD250 is toast... At first because I thought maybe the power supply was inadaquate here on the work computer, its a small 250w but my question then would be if it fires the Maxtor Drive why not the WD.. is there a difference in power consumption between the two drives.. or should i quit chasing my tail and go get another Maxtor 250 and start over... ??
Thanks,
Steve

You may be attempting to read too much into the situation. You should definitely run the advanced test on the [edit] all the drives since you have the unit open; you should definitely get another 250 GB drive and run the advanced test on that prior to reinstalling in the TiVo, as well... To draw any specific conclusions, such as the ones you are suggesting, without additional data, would really be no more than random guessing; it more likely to just be bad luck than anything else...

[shutitdotnet]

That wouldnt suprise me I'm prone to having bad luck I stole some power(just power) from my NT5 machine and im running the WD dlgdiag test right now we'll see what it turns up.. wish me ..ahhh "luck" the good kind of course, thanks for the reply tivo
LaTe®
Steve

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
That wouldnt suprise me I'm prone to having bad luck I stole some power(just power) from my NT5 machine and im running the WD dlgdiag test right now we'll see what it turns up.. wish me ..ahhh "luck" the good kind of course, thanks for the reply tivo
LaTe®
Steve

Okay just got done with the test on the WD250 and it reports no errors on the drive.. sooo im at a loss here does anyone have any ideas should I just try to restore my tivo.bak to the OEM WD250 and see If i can at least get passed the "Welcome.Powering up" screen???? Im guessing thats my last straw I cant see any other avenue to go, if someone has a better idea, please please chime in..
Steve

[shutitdotnet]

Okay I'm going to attempt to restore my original WD250 backup back to itself, do I need to write zero's to the drive prior to running the mfsrestore command?? Or will it automatically overwrite whatever is on the drive, and hopefully bring it back to when it was working prior to the upgrade??
Thanks,
Steve™

[weaknees]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
Okay I'm going to attempt to restore my original WD250 backup back to itself, do I need to write zero's to the drive prior to running the mfsrestore command?? Or will it automatically overwrite whatever is on the drive, and hopefully bring it back to when it was working prior to the upgrade??
Thanks,
Steve™

Nope. mfsrestore will write over whatever you have there (without even asking).

Michael

[such]

Might I suggest you create a second backup of what's on the drive right now. This will allow you to restore to backup #2 in the event it turns out not to be the drive.

[shutitdotnet]

okay im pretty sure thats my primary objective anyways... im almost done with the extended test on the WD250 and we'll see if this doesnt come back with anything im going to restore my original back up to the OEM WD250 and hope it works, does that sound like a plan??? or is there another way I can go..?

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by such
Might I suggest you create a second backup of what's on the drive right now. This will allow you to restore to backup #2 in the event it turns out not to be the drive.

If its not the drive then I think im pretty much screwed anyways.. but not a bad idea I guess... what do ya think weakness???

[shutitdotnet]

::Update::
DLGdiag reported no errors on the WD250 OEM drive on both the "quick" test and the extended test, so I guess the only thing left would be to try an extended test on the upgrade Maxtor 250, and then from there im open to suggestions.. can you think of anything else that might cause this weakness.. like i said worked flawlessly for about a week no hiccups, and then one morning it was froze the next reboot it just never quite got over the welcome powering up hump???
Thanks again for all your help everyone..
LaTe®
Steve™

[weaknees]

Nope - do the extended on the Maxtor and see what's up.

But how could the WD extended be done that quickly? It should take quite a while . . . the Maxtor will take overnight at least.

Michael

[shutitdotnet]

the WD took about an hour maybe a lil more I started running it before i posted it, and when i was posting i looked over at my other machine and it finished.. haha sorry for the confusion... I have the maxtor running right now at work and I will check it tomorrow morning.. and let ya guys know whats up.. thanks for the help though its really appreciated.. i guess today wasnt a good day to stop smoking my nerves are racked.. =o)

[weaknees]

Even an hour isn't really long enough for a full test on a WD - which test did you do?

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by weaknees
Even an hour isn't really long enough for a full test on a WD - which test did you do?

I think i see where the problem lies I think i downloaded an older copy of the diagnostic utility from WD's website.. goddamn it.. how long does this test take to run usually.. haha my boss is gonna be pissed.. =o) ahh well company time..
here is what i downloaded (http://support.wdc.com/download/index.asp#olddiag) and it did run the test on the drive, and didnt return any errors but maybe that point is moot and i will have to re-run it tomorrow morning, but in the mean time i have powermax checking out the 250 upgrade drive..
keep tuned tomorrow im sure i will have some more off the wall questions..
Steve

[boiler11]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
haha my boss is gonna be pissed.. =o) ahh well company time..


Wish I had your job ;) Do you get paid to drink beer and play video games too ;) Are you accepting applications?

[pbolya]

Originally posted by boiler11
Wish I had your job ;) Do you get paid to drink beer and play video games too ;) Are you accepting applications? I am not sure that job is as peachy as you paint it. Just think about what will happen if he can not fix it virtually reducing his boss's $1000 new toy to a paperweight.

[DCIFRTHS]

Originally posted by pbolya
I am not sure that job is as peachy as you paint it. Just think about what will happen if he can not fix it virtually reducing his boss's $1000 new toy to a paperweight.

I need a job :(

[shutitdotnet]

Back...
Im going to retest the OEM WD250 with the newer diagnostic utility and see where it gets me, if this passes im just going to attempt to restore the WD from the image i created and see if i can get this Tivo to boot... if ... and im praying this doesnt fail but if the restore of the original image doesnt work, does anyone else have any suggestions.. or do i toss it??
Thanks,
Steve

[shutitdotnet]

Just some FYI I'm running the newer extended test right now, and I believe it was weakness that said the test should take longer than an hour, if not much longer.. well the estimated time on the test looks like its only going to take about an hour and 15 minutes.. but we'll see...could this be an indication that the WD250 is just fubar..?

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by pbolya
I am not sure that job is as peachy as you paint it. Just think about what will happen if he can not fix it virtually reducing his boss's $1000 new toy to a paperweight.

Well put not a good day to quit smoking was it?? haha its pretty stressful actually I mean I like toying with new things but **** 1000 bucks down the drian sure does suck

[aaronwt]

It's still under warranty!

[shutitdotnet]

No I modded the case and fabricated my own bracket.. soo thats outta the question, but it was a good idea.. =o/

[aaronwt]

I'm glad I pulled out my original WD drives and replaced them with MAxtor drives.

[shutitdotnet]

has anyone else here had any problems with the WD OEM drives, Im kinda partial to maxtor drives myself, but im thinking heat in the rack may have caused a failure somewhere a long the lines..

[weaknees]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
has anyone else here had any problems with the WD OEM drives, Im kinda partial to maxtor drives myself, but im thinking heat in the rack may have caused a failure somewhere a long the lines..

We've seen a few failures of the WD OEM drives in these units already.

Michael

[shutitdotnet]

Ahhh alass a slight glimmer of hope, maybe now i can get another Maxtor 250 and be done with this crap once and for all.. =o) ::evil laugh:: hows the weather out in LA weakness?

If the Drive does have errors when the extended test finishes in 6 minutes would it be usefull to have the WD diagnostic program to try and correct it or should I shoot over to CompUSA and get another Maxtor???

[weaknees]

The weather is great - as always in LA.

By the way, you said it might take an hour and fifteen minutes for the extended test on the WD - but how long did that take on the Maxtor? Overnight, I assume.

[shutitdotnet]

Yeah when I left yesterday I had about 40 minutes into the maxtor, and I can only assume it went all night it coulda finished the test 10 minutes after I walked outta the office.. Its really a guess how long it took.. but this WD250 drive is on about an hour and 23 minutes.. and its almost done.. id say 98% complete.. only 1 minute left..

the maxtor passed this morning by the way! =o)

No Errors found on the WD250...

So what would be the next logical step here weakness??? restore my backup to the WD250 and see if the paper weights boots up, also im changing the power y adapter and EIDE cable, just to be safe..

[edrock200]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
has anyone else here had any problems with the WD OEM drives, Im kinda partial to maxtor drives myself, but im thinking heat in the rack may have caused a failure somewhere a long the lines..

I have one of each in mine, the oem wd and a maxtor retail in the HDTivo.

I work with PC's a lot, and with different types of HD's, and from my personal experience drives either die very early on, or last a long time. It's rare to see a drive that dies between the 1st and 3rd year, its the first 6 mo's IMO that's critical.

However, maybe others have more info on WD drives since, from the sounds of it, they don't seem as reliable? I've used WD drives in several HDVR2 upgrades with no problems.

[shutitdotnet]

Yeah I dont know right now im thinking something else is just not right, at this point im going to say its probably not the drives that are messed up its got to be something else but I have no other option other than to try and do a restore to both drives one at a time to see if I can get either of them in there and boot the Tivo... not looking good..

[shutitdotnet]

Im going to restore Original Image to my Maxtor...
And my Maxtor is set to Primary Slave, reports correctly when I boot to CD..
Let me make sure Im doing this correctly for the restore Im working pretty much off memory...
it would be mfsrestore -s 127 -bzpi /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdb
Sound Right?

[weaknees]

That command should do it. You can put an "x" in there if you want to use any extra space on the drive. While you're at it, why not do that to the WD also and try both? If one doesn't boot, you have your culprit.

Michael

[shutitdotnet]

that was my idea weakness hopefully i dont have a paper weight here for my boss...cross your fingers, toes, eyes, hairs etc.. for me Late®
Steve

[shutitdotnet]

My aussumptions were right weakness, thanks for all your help looks like it was the WD250 I restored the Original Image to the Maxtor booted just fine in the Tivo everything grand, so then i restored the image to the WD250 looks like it got almost there and went blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh then it looks like atari gone mad.. soo I guess i will get another maxtor 250 and then try again.. ... wait a minute jsut for grins i rebooted the Tivo again with the WD250 and it looks like its going now, but that first hiccup made me a little weary.. so im going to reboot it a couple more times and see how it goes..

[shutitdotnet]

WD250 is working now, weird.. Im not sure what may of happen do you have any ideas, my guess would be heat, I searched for a picture of the bracket on your site, but unfortunatly i was unable to find it , mind posting some high res pics here or emailing them to me my boss wants to check them out.. some close ups would be nice weakness .. if you could find it in your heart.. LOL
Thanks again and again.
Steve

[weaknees]

Here's the best picture we have online:

http://www.weaknees.com/twinbreeze_hd.php

Just so you know, our initial run was in solid black, but now we've moved to totally clear material (not translucent like in the picture there, but transparent).

Michael

[shutitdotnet]

is that the only pic you got, sorry im tryign to sell my boss on one!! =oP
Im trying to help you out weakness, not that you need it , but since you've been such a big help to me, i figure i could return the favor.. how about a pic of one installed, from anyone on here that may have one.. Thanks
Steve™

[shutitdotnet]

And what the hell is a vented IDE cable, I've never heard of such an animal.. =oP wait never mind its Custom!!

><gone> <fishin><

[weaknees]

OK - here's a quick picture of the new bracket with fan attached, and our vented IDE cable.

[shutitdotnet]

Thanks man much appreciated we will probably get a couple from you, does this require when installing it to remove the chassis for the single drive in the Tivo?? Not that I care either way seeing as I already ripped them out of two HD10-250's already.. Im a mad phucking scientist =o)

thanks,
Steve
www.shutit.net

[weaknees]

You just need to remove the metal bracket on which the drive is mounted with the four screws, not the underlying bracket that is secured to the base of the case.

Michael

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by weaknees
You just need to remove the metal bracket on which the drive is mounted with the four screws, not the underlying bracket that is secured to the base of the case.

Michael

HaHa it was secured with some phucking industrial strength double sided tape.. but a razor knife and screw driver took care of that.. =o)

wait a minute does your bracket mount to the bottom of the two the one set on the case?? if so i may have to fabricate my own again goddamn it..

[aaronwt]

Good luck quitting smoking!
I quit almost 15 years ago and I still ocassionally get an urge when seeing someone in a movie smoke. Of course If I can actually smell it, then it's a big turn off. Anyway, I would never smoke again, even if I wanted too I can't because of a pulmonary disease I had/have 4 years ago. I had to be on short term disablity for over 3 months and I sure don't want to do anything that would increase the odds of that happening again.

[weaknees]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
wait a minute does your bracket mount to the bottom of the two the one set on the case??
You do not have to remove any double-sided tape, use a razor blade, etc. All you have to do is remove two screws and the TiVo bracket slides off... should be very easy!

FYI, installation instructions are here (http://www.weaknees.com/instructions/twinbreeze_hd.pdf).

[shutitdotnet]

haha never mind i will take some pics so you understand what im talking about, where the drives were originalyl6t777 haha sorry thats what my cat had to say to you.. no the bracket the drive was originally screwed to, it sits ontop of another bracket that is attached to the case, well both of those are now gone, so drive on sits directly on the bottom of the case with some room for ventilation (about 1/2") and the other stacks on top of that one with about another 1/2" for ventilation

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by aaronwt
Good luck quitting smoking!
I quit almost 15 years ago and I still ocassionally get an urge when seeing someone in a movie smoke. Of course If I can actually smell it, then it's a big turn off. Anyway, I would never smoke again, even if I wanted too I can't because of a pulmonary disease I had/have 4 years ago. I had to be on short term disablity for over 3 months and I sure don't want to do anything that would increase the odds of that happening again.

Its going to be coming up on day three tomorrow and this is by far the hardest goddamn thing i have done.. giving up drugs wasn't even this phucking hard, that tells you something about the tobacco industry.. I'm not doing it for my health I'm doing it because it appears to be a woman repellent.. haha and i figure when I'm old and no longer able to pick up the 18 y/os i can pick the habit up or by then i will be too health conscious..

[obrook]

Is there a memory or any kind of upgrade to speed this turtle up a little.It is so slow it is almost unusable :(.

But i still love it

[buckeye1010]

I have the twin breeze with my HD Tivo, along with the original 250GB and a Weaknees 300GB hard drive. Was very easy to install, and the temperature now runs cooler (42 deg) than it did when it only had one drive (45 deg)! (an unsolictied testimonial) Thank you Weaknees!

Dude - good luck with the cigs - I've been there myself. Hardest thing I've ever done, but never regreted it. Hang in there, it slowly gets easier. But don't dare have just one - then you're right back at it!

[shutitdotnet]

Originally posted by buckeye1010

Dude - good luck with the cigs - I've been there myself. Hardest thing I've ever done, but never regreted it. Hang in there, it slowly gets easier. But don't dare have just one - then you're right back at it!

I'm trying my best, my last few attempts i would reward myself after aday of not smoking with "just one" this time im not doing that and we'll see how it goes..
LaTe®
Steve

[pbolya]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
I'm trying my best, my last few attempts i would reward myself after aday of not smoking with "just one" this time im not doing that and we'll see how it goes..
LaTe®
Steve As a long time second hand smoker I apploud your afforts and I hope you will be successful. Growing up in Hungary was not the healtiest thing to do as still to this day you can not even go to a restaurant without a protective bodysuit and a gas mask. Giving up second hand smoking was the hardest thing I did in my life. Eventually I had to move to a different country because the urge for others to smoke was just too big to handle. I tried carying nikotine patches but I just got punched in the face. Finally I broke the habit after we moved to California.

[Anubys]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
I'm trying my best, my last few attempts i would reward myself after aday of not smoking with "just one" this time im not doing that and we'll see how it goes..
LaTeŽ
Steve

another former smoker (1-2 packs a day for 15 years)...why do you consider a cancer stick to be a "reward"? maybe the first step is to take a deep breath :p and re-evaluate your reward system!

back on topic: don't waste your time making your own bracket...the twinbreeze is really good...I highly recommend it :up:

[edrock200]

Originally posted by shutitdotnet
is that the only pic you got, sorry im tryign to sell my boss on one!! =oP
Im trying to help you out weakness, not that you need it , but since you've been such a big help to me, i figure i could return the favor.. how about a pic of one installed, from anyone on here that may have one.. Thanks
Steve™

I posted a pic a few pages back of what it looks like installed:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2158401#post2158401

I have some hi res shots, if you still want them PM me and I'll email them to you.

[tmtech]

Does anyone know if the upgrade instructions that are on Weaknees' site will fill out two 300GB drives?

I want to shelve the 250 that came with the unit and max it out with two 300GB drives. Already have the twinbreeze ordered and the drives are sitting here just waiting...

Thanks,
Tom

[edrock200]

Originally posted by tmtech
Does anyone know if the upgrade instructions that are on Weaknees' site will fill out two 300GB drives?

I want to shelve the 250 that came with the unit and max it out with two 300GB drives. Already have the twinbreeze ordered and the drives are sitting here just waiting...

Thanks,
Tom

Check this thread:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2101784#post2101784

[weaknees]

Right - that's the best DIY solution for now.

Michael

[dennya]

Anyone tried a 400GB drive yet? Supposedly they're streaming out.

As much as the upgrade temptation is hitting me (so I can stop saying "should I record this in HD? Is it worth that much space?"), part of me wants to hold out for the 500GB drives coming up in the next couple of months.

Just think -- assuming the file system can handle it, by Christmas you can have a Terabyte DirecTiVo. :-)

[edrock200]

Originally posted by dennya
Anyone tried a 400GB drive yet? Supposedly they're streaming out.

As much as the upgrade temptation is hitting me (so I can stop saying "should I record this in HD? Is it worth that much space?"), part of me wants to hold out for the 500GB drives coming up in the next couple of months.

Just think -- assuming the file system can handle it, by Christmas you can have a Terabyte DirecTiVo. :-)

If I'm understanding Weaknees workaround correctly it probably won't be possibly with 500gb drives without a modified tool as the second partition on each drive will be 300+gb. But if a modified tool comes out that allows 3 partitions less than 250gb's each, totaling 500gb's for each drive, then it should be possible. The key seems to be creating partitions small enough for the tools/Tivo to handle, but using multiple ones to total the amount of drive space you have. Someone please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the concept.

With weaknees workaround it seems you can get a 137 +256 partition for a total of 393 per drive, so close to dual 400's might be possible, though I'm not sure if you can specify to leave off that last 7gb's so the tools can handle the second partition size.

[weaknees]

For drives that size, we'd suggest a different idea, but based on the same principal:

Backup up the boot drive and restore it to a 500 GB drive.

mfsadd the rest of that drive (with formatting, the remainder should be less than 256 GB).

mfsadd back the original 250 GB drive.

"dd" the 250 to a 500 GB drive.

mfsadd the remainder of the second 500 GB drive.

It'll take a while because of the "dd" but it should work.

Michael

[AbMagFab]

Okay, I tried the mfsbackup line from the original post, and after like 5 minutes of scanning the drive, it started to backup and then failed with an error. I tried again, and it failed again.

Two questions:

1) Any idea why?

2) I wanted to backup before I added a drive, but now I have a second drive in my HD Tivo. Do I need to have both drives in my PC to try a backup again? I don't care about recordings.

3) Can I back up after it's hacked?

I have a previous backup, but I got a new HD Tivo (HDMI failed), and this one has logos, so I wanted to back it up.

[weaknees]

1 - What was the error message?

2 - Yes, you do, even if you don't want recordings.

Michael

[pbolya]

Originally posted by edrock200
If I'm understanding Weaknees workaround correctly it probably won't be possibly with 500gb drives without a modified tool as the second partition on each drive will be 300+gb. But if a modified tool comes out that allows 3 partitions less than 250gb's each, totaling 500gb's for each drive, then it should be possible. The key seems to be creating partitions small enough for the tools/Tivo to handle, but using multiple ones to total the amount of drive space you have. Someone please correct me if I'm misunderstanding the concept.

With weaknees workaround it seems you can get a 137 +256 partition for a total of 393 per drive, so close to dual 400's might be possible, though I'm not sure if you can specify to leave off that last 7gb's so the tools can handle the second partition size. Also you are mixing deci and binary GB's. It should be 137.4GB+274.8GB = 412.3GB which is comfortably over any 400GB drives we may enconter in the future.

With Weaknees DD method theoratically you could upgrade to a 750GB A drive and a 2TB B drive. Of course you will need a 500GB, 750GB, 1,000GB, 1,250GB, 1,500GB, 1,750GB and a 2,000GB disk to store the intermediate partitions. Of course by the time we have the 2TB disks (maybe 10 years from now) probably will fix mfsadd to be able to specify maximum partition size and HD TiVo's will come with a 1.5TB disks.

[weaknees]

Then there's always the limit on the amount of partitions you can have . . .

[dbish]

I just wanted to say you guys are AWESOME! Been lurking for a month or so and finally took the plunge

I upgraded my HR10-250 over the weekend with 2 new 7K250's. Took about 30 minutes start to finish.

I used the Weaknees twinbreeze bracket. Let me say that this bracket is very professional and installed without a hitch. Unit even runs 2 degrees cooler than with the one WD drive.

I can't imagine TV without Tivo. I think I'm going to have to upgrade my SD Tivo now!

BTW-My original HDTivo died after 3 weeks. Display (HDMI) stopped working. New one was upgraded before I even plugged it in.

[edrock200]

So MFSADD works on single drives in the HD unit but not for adding a second drive?

[pbolya]

Originally posted by edrock200
So MFSADD works on single drives in the HD unit but not for adding a second drive? MFSADD works with any scenario where the remaining space is smaler than 274 GB. So it works fine to add another 250GB or even upgrade the A drive to 400GB and add a 250GB B drive. However it can not handle a 300GB B drive as it will try to create a single partition over the 274GB limit. For B drives larger than 274GB we have to use BlessTivo which do not have this limitation.

[pbolya]

Originally posted by weaknees
Then there's always the limit on the amount of partitions you can have . . . That is why I said the theoratical maximum is 750GB A drive and 2TB Bdrive. As you can upgrade the A drive twice (250 + 2 x 250 = 750GB) and the B drive 8 times (250 x 8 = 2TB) before running into the 16 partition limit.

[borghe]

just to comment on my experience.. being the first non-company upgrade posted to this board I did NOT have success with mfsadd on a second 250GB drive. It worked, looked like it gave me the space (I even posted pictures on another board), but the first time it had to go into the second drive (over 30 hours of material) I instantly lost that drive. My System Info screen reported 30 hours again.

I would not do anything other than BlessTivo.. have used up everything but about 4GB (yikes!!!!) at times and not a single problem.

[weaknees]

We've seen mfsadd erroneously report that an upgrade works when, in fact, nothing happens. Specifically, we've seen that with un-expandable Pioneer and Toshiba images. But we haven't personally experience it with the HR10-250, although we have seen other reports of it.

Michael

[edrock200]

Yes the reason I asked is because I tried to MFSADD a second 250GB Maxtor to my original drive and though it said successful nothing happened. I ended up using BlessTiVo. I didn't realize this wasn't happening to everyone.

[weaknees]

Was the A drive the factory drive, or a new drive?

[pbolya]

Originally posted by borghe
just to comment on my experience.. being the first non-company upgrade posted to this board I did NOT have success with mfsadd on a second 250GB drive. It worked, looked like it gave me the space (I even posted pictures on another board), but the first time it had to go into the second drive (over 30 hours of material) I instantly lost that drive. My System Info screen reported 30 hours again.

I would not do anything other than BlessTivo.. have used up everything but about 4GB (yikes!!!!) at times and not a single problem. I also did BlessTivo to upgrade to 63h and I did a test where I filled up the drives with mostly SD material (and some HD) untill it started to delete the earliest recordings. To my biggest suprise I did not see any performance degradation in any aspects of the TiVo even though I had 350+ hours recorded.

How do you know that only 4GB left. Do you have a good way to calculate how much GB left on your TiVo?

[LarryInAz]

Originally posted by pbolya
...How do you know that only 4GB left. Do you have a good way to calculate how much GB left on your TiVo?

Unfortuantely there's no "GIG GAUGE" you pretty much have to look at the number of HD programs and figure it out yourself.
It could be though that PTVUpgrade's pending TiVoWeb would let us add a utility that keeps track. :confused:

[edrock200]

Originally posted by weaknees
Was the A drive the factory drive, or a new drive?

Factory

[edrock200]

Originally posted by LarryInAz
It could be though that PTVUpgrade's pending TiVoWeb would let us add a utility that keeps track. :confused:

Link for more info? I'm outta the loop...didn't know any Tivoweb util development for the HDTivo even existed.

[weaknees]

Originally posted by edrock200
Factory

Do you happen to remember how many gigs the new drive showed when you booted?

[borghe]

TivoWebPlus and other tools are available right now. PTVUpgrade's kit will just make it much easier to install everything than it is now.

My unit at its worst (two weeks ago) was about 4GB of free space.. for OTA that would be anywhere from an hour to half an hour depending on the station. For DirecTV HD that would be around 35-40 minutes.. Though that was also including suggestions which probably took up around 50-100GB (mixed SD and HD/OTA).

[LarryInAz]

Originally posted by edrock200
Link for more info? I'm outta the loop...didn't know any Tivoweb util development for the HDTivo even existed.

It's a work in progress - supposedly TiVoWeb Plus will be available for Series 2 standalone and D*TiVo machines for a small fee. This will allegedly enable the USB ports and make these machines "hackworthy".

However I've seen in another thread recently with a "confirmation" from Robert at VE that HMO maybe just aroujnd the corner for D* machines with USB ports.

As a wise sage once said..."I'll believe it when I see it." :rolleyes:

I don't know if this link will go thru or not but you might try this (http://forum.ptvupgrade.com/showthread.php?t=670)

[pbolya]

Originally posted by LarryInAz
Unfortuantely there's no "GIG GAUGE" you pretty much have to look at the number of HD programs and figure it out yourself.
It could be though that PTVUpgrade's pending TiVoWeb would let us add a utility that keeps track. :confused: That is what I am doing but since there are differences in bit rates on most programs it is very inaccurate and very time consuming. Also borghe said 4GB. If you would add the hours up you would say something like 30 minutes or 4 hours not 4GB. borghe, care to comment?

Thanks,
Peter

[AbMagFab]

My HDTivo is currently "modified" with:

- USB ports enabled
- LinkSys 200M USB 2.0 ethernet adapter
- Telnet, FTP
- TivoWebPlus (w/ OTA channel mods)
- mfs_ftp (ftp'ing Tivo files natively, for archiving and moving across Tivo's)
- HDTyTool (for extracting MPG's, VOB's, etc. from a Tivo and playing on the PC)
- Caller ID (displays incoming calls on my TV when watching my HD Tivo)
- Descrambled (so I can use mfs_ftp and HDTyTool effectively)
- And of course, an extra 250GB hard drive

It took about 90 minutes to do all this (done it twice now). There are some new tools that make this much easier than previously, for HDTivo's and DTivo Series 2's (DTivo Series 1's have always been easy since you can flash the prom).

Just poke around the other board for a few minutes and you'll find all that you need (if you're comfortable popping hard drives in and out of your Tivo, which if you're in this thread you presumably are).

Next on my list is a server that let's me basically get HMO - that is, transfer from one Tivo to another using the Tivo UI only. With one click, it'll show me the "Now Playing" list from any other Tivo, and then I can tell it to stream it across Tivo's.

[aaronwt]

How long does it take to transfer between the HDTIvos with the USB 2.0 adapter?

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by aaronwt
How long does it take to transfer between the HDTIvos with the USB 2.0 adapter?

I'll choose my words very carefully as extraction talk is not permitted on this particular forum (you can use our own forum for that, if you'd like). In any case, I am currently watching the movement of a large file from my HDTIVO at approximately 1.6 MB/sec.

In other slightly related news:

I'm off to get married early next week, however when I get back (end of September) we'll be putting the final wraps on some groovy new DIY tools that will let you modify your HR10-250 drive quickly and easily with TiVoWeb access and some other goodies which will make life easier. We won't be offering, publicizing any tools/techniques here which will aid in video extraction (as are the wishes of the TCF management) and although we may choose to do so in time, it won't be mentioned here.

In any case, we do believe networking is the future and we'll be offering tools and how-to information at no charge here on TCF. So please stay tuned, or sign up for the list here (http://www.ptvupgrade.com/subscribe.html) and we'll let you know when the time has come -- good things come to those who wait. :-)

[Rshnrocket]

PLEASE HELP!!!!! I have a post in the warning for the white ribbon.... Basically I tried using that hinsdale site to upgrade my tivo. I think I'm finding out it was a big mistake. Ahhh tried to upgrade got real confused so we tried to put old drive back in. When i went to power up it got stuck on the power up screen. Checked the drive & the jumper was wrong. Went to power up again & noticed right away something was wrong cause the fan was running slow & it would not turn on. By this time I found the thread about the white ribbon cable, checked it & sure enough partially dislodged... pushed it back in, powered up. Back to being stuck on the power up screen. Only thing we did was try the unlock utility on hinsdale site. Not sure if it worked or not. Could this be the problem or is it the white ribbon problem??????? man, really sorry I tried this. Thought it would be kinda easy with hinsdale site,WRONG!!!!! I just want to get my original drive working again, PLEASE HELP!!!!

[Rshnrocket]

Originally posted by Rshnrocket
PLEASE HELP!!!!! I have a post in the warning for the white ribbon.... Basically I tried using that hinsdale site to upgrade my tivo. I think I'm finding out it was a big mistake. Ahhh tried to upgrade got real confused so we tried to put old drive back in. When i went to power up it got stuck on the power up screen. Checked the drive & the jumper was wrong. Went to power up again & noticed right away something was wrong cause the fan was running slow & it would not turn on. By this time I found the thread about the white ribbon cable, checked it & sure enough partially dislodged... pushed it back in, powered up. Back to being stuck on the power up screen. Only thing we did was try the unlock utility on hinsdale site. Not sure if it worked or not. Could this be the problem or is it the white ribbon problem??????? man, really sorry I tried this. Thought it would be kinda easy with hinsdale site,WRONG!!!!! I just want to get my original drive working again, PLEASE HELP!!!!

[AbMagFab]

Originally posted by Rshnrocket
PLEASE HELP!!!!! I have a post in the warning for the white ribbon.... Basically I tried using that hinsdale site to upgrade my tivo. I think I'm finding out it was a big mistake. Ahhh tried to upgrade got real confused so we tried to put old drive back in. When i went to power up it got stuck on the power up screen. Checked the drive & the jumper was wrong. Went to power up again & noticed right away something was wrong cause the fan was running slow & it would not turn on. By this time I found the thread about the white ribbon cable, checked it & sure enough partially dislodged... pushed it back in, powered up. Back to being stuck on the power up screen. Only thing we did was try the unlock utility on hinsdale site. Not sure if it worked or not. Could this be the problem or is it the white ribbon problem??????? man, really sorry I tried this. Thought it would be kinda easy with hinsdale site,WRONG!!!!! I just want to get my original drive working again, PLEASE HELP!!!!

If you dislodged the white cable and then powered up, your Tivo might be fried. You need to be extremely careful of all the electronics in the Tivo whenever opening it up.

Additionally, I don't think the Hinsdale site covers the HD Tivo yet (which requires LBA48). I'd imagine it wouldn't work anyway.

For next time:
1) Do your research first. Make sure you're using the right tools/software for the job

2) Be careful! This is an electronic component, not a car. If you're not experienced and comfortable taking apart PC's, you shouldn't be messing with the Tivo (especially not the HD Tivo)

3) If you can't risk the cost of the box, don't mess with it.

[Anubys]

Originally posted by weaknees
Also known as the "cable of death," we have a sticky post about it at the top of the forum.

Long story short - the ribbon cable that goes from the motherboard into the front panel is very sensitive on series 2 units. If all the way or partially out when the unit is booted, it can cause permanent damage to the motherboard making the unit inoperative via remote control or front panel buttons. We haven't (fortunately) seen if this is a problem on HR10-250s, but please exercise caution here. Make sure you can't see any of the silver contacts on the bottom of the cable before you power up the unit.

Michael

This quote pretty much tells you that it is probably the white ribbon...But this quote states that it has not been confirmed on a HD-Tivo, only on a series 2 (not much difference, but the distinction is worth noting). Sorry to confirm your fears, but it looks like your unit is dead :(

[aaronwt]

On all my TiVos that I've upgraded, I always look at the ribbon cable and wonder how it can be dislodged. On all my machines the ribbon cable is firmly in place. It seems as though I would need to apply alot of force to dislodge this. Anyway, because of the warnings I have always been careful when sticking my hands in that area. I guess that warning is well heeded. Good luck with your HD-TiVo. I hope it works out for you.

[weaknees]

Originally posted by Rshnrocket
PLEASE HELP!!!!! I have a post in the warning for the white ribbon.... Basically I tried using that hinsdale site to upgrade my tivo. I think I'm finding out it was a big mistake. Ahhh tried to upgrade got real confused so we tried to put old drive back in. When i went to power up it got stuck on the power up screen. Checked the drive & the jumper was wrong. Went to power up again & noticed right away something was wrong cause the fan was running slow & it would not turn on. By this time I found the thread about the white ribbon cable, checked it & sure enough partially dislodged... pushed it back in, powered up. Back to being stuck on the power up screen. Only thing we did was try the unlock utility on hinsdale site. Not sure if it worked or not. Could this be the problem or is it the white ribbon problem??????? man, really sorry I tried this. Thought it would be kinda easy with hinsdale site,WRONG!!!!! I just want to get my original drive working again, PLEASE HELP!!!!

Neither of these symptoms is like the "cable of death" problem. In that problem, the machine boots fine but the remote and the front panel buttons don't work.

We haven't seen a unit have a slow fan and not boot because of this cable.

I think you might just have damaged the drive or corrupted the software somehow when it was in your PC. You tried to unlock it? Why?

Michael

[edrock200]

Yeah I fried one of my units this way but it still booted fine, never had a boot problem. Did you maybe change any jumper settings?

[edrock200]

Originally posted by weaknees
Do you happen to remember how many gigs the new drive showed when you booted?

Do you mean via MFSAdd or BlessTiVo? Unfortunately not, I think it said it added in the 250 range but I can't remember the exact number.

[edrock200]

Originally posted by borghe
TivoWebPlus and other tools are available right now. PTVUpgrade's kit will just make it much easier to install everything than it is now.

My unit at its worst (two weeks ago) was about 4GB of free space.. for OTA that would be anywhere from an hour to half an hour depending on the station. For DirecTV HD that would be around 35-40 minutes.. Though that was also including suggestions which probably took up around 50-100GB (mixed SD and HD/OTA).

Yes I found a how-to thread and it doesn't look that bad at all to upgrade. I'll wait a while longer and see if the upcoming utility cd will add any functionality the how-to guide doesn't. Regardless, this is a very cool development.

[weaknees]

Originally posted by edrock200
Do you mean via MFSAdd or BlessTiVo? Unfortunately not, I think it said it added in the 250 range but I can't remember the exact number.

At over 256 GB, results are fairly unpredictable. We've seen drives simply not boot, so at least you didn't hit that snag.

[Mr Pieces]

I've read through about 10 pages of this thread and haven't found the method to add a 250gb drive to a HD TiVo. I just got the bracket in from weaknees and want to add a 250gb drive. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be great!

[AbMagFab]

Search for BlessTivo. It's pretty straightforward, and is in this thread a bunch of times.

[Rshnrocket]

Weaknees, thanx for answering!!! Hmmmmm dont know how the drive would get fried..... Anyways, I unlocked the drive cause of the hinsdale site instructions. They said that u have to unlock it??? We first tried to clone the drive with norton ghost... I think that might have been when all the problems started, But we really never did the transfer cause the tivo drive still seemed like it was locked. the ghost never recognized it. So like I said we put the drive back in... powered up ..stuck on welcome... then the ribbon problem. I guess I learned an expensive lesson.By the way, IF I try to be brave & try this again, what is a good site to learn about this????
I saw your site & probably will go that route. Just sliding in your drive... Easy enough. Just gotta remember about the stupid white ribbon. I cannot believe that the manufacture would put this into their product. But yea, the part thats got me puzzled is if it was ribbon then why does it not boot up at least cause u guys say the ribbon causes the remote not to work.
Oh by the way,AbMagFab.... I do have PC knowledge... Guess that does not apply to tivos.....Lmao!!! I built my p.c. very nice gaming machine. All the times I have worked on p.c.s I have NEVER seen a cable that is supposed to be connected with a connector come loose on the back side. I can understand if you dislodge the CONNECTOR but the ribbon I would think should be firmly attached to it. SERIOUS DESIGN FLAW!!! Oh well like I said I guess I learned a costly lesson. Thanx for all the response guys!!!

[such]

What Operating System did you boot up in when you tried to Ghost the drive? If it's XP, that's what hosed your drive, well documented here that you can't boot to XP with a Tivo drive connected because it destroys the boot sectors or something.

[gregghuffman]

I just got my HD Tivo and I also ordered a new drive and drive bracket. I want to backup my Tivo Image and then add a second drive through either BlessTivo or MFSAdd. My main problem is the lba48 support. I want to make sure I am very comfortable with the instructions before I experiment on a $1000 machine. I am able to upgrade regular tivos just fine. Thanks alot for any help. Also I saw 9th has a upgrade cd for the hd tivo and was wondering if that is the best way to go.

[gregghuffman]

I just got my HD Tivo and I also ordered a new drive and drive bracket. I want to backup my Tivo Image and then add a second drive through either BlessTivo or MFSAdd. My main problem is the lba48 support. I want to make sure I am very comfortable with the instructions before I experiment on a $1000 machine. I am able to upgrade regular tivos just fine. Thanks alot for any help. Also I saw 9th has a upgrade cd for the hd tivo and was wondering if that is the best way to go.

[edrock200]

Its a very easy upgrade. The HDTivos already have lba48 support so no kernel modification needed there. You just need to download the MFSTOOLS large disk (lba48 support) CD from ptvupgrade and run bless TiVo on your new drive. Search this thread for blesstivo and you should see the instructions.

[jayerndl]

Originally posted by gregghuffman
I just got my HD Tivo and I also ordered a new drive and drive bracket. I want to backup my Tivo Image and then add a second drive through either BlessTivo or MFSAdd. IMO, the best way to go is to get 2 new drives. Simply copy your original drive to one of your new drives, then add the second one with blesstivo. Put your original drive away in a safe place and your done. Outpost.com still has the 250GB Maxtor for $119 (no rebate required). A small price to pay for peace of mind. I have 2 of these in my system and they work perfectly. Good luck.

Jay

[aaronwt]

Or you can buy the drives and send them to one of the merchants and have them upgraded for around $90. then you can install them yourself. I bought my 4 drives with the intention of doing the expansion and copying myself, but I ran into problems. I followed the instructions exactly but I couldn't get it to make a backup. After spending a feew hours I figured it wasn't worth anymore of my time. So I just sent my for drives in and for $180 they configured them for my 2 HDTiVos. I lost logos since I'm not using a copy of my original drives, but I figure I'll get those back when the first software update materializes. I still have the original drives as a backup. It just wasn't worth it to me to spend anymore time trouble shooting the problem. It was probablyt associated with the motherboard i was attaching the drives. I have 6 PCs at home but it's a pain to connect and reconnect drives,since I have over 7 Terabytes between the 6 PCs. So sending the drives in to be configured was the best solution for me.

[Anubys]

Originally posted by aaronwt
Or you can buy the drives and send them to one of the merchants and have them upgraded for around $90. then you can install them yourself. I bought my 4 drives with the intention of doing the expansion and copying myself, but I ran into problems. I followed the instructions exactly but I couldn't get it to make a backup. After spending a feew hours I figured it wasn't worth anymore of my time. So I just sent my for drives in and for $180 they configured them for my 2 HDTiVos. I lost logos since I'm not using a copy of my original drives, but I figure I'll get those back when the first software update materializes. I still have the original drives as a backup. It just wasn't worth it to me to spend anymore time trouble shooting the problem. It was probablyt associated with the motherboard i was attaching the drives. I have 6 PCs at home but it's a pain to connect and reconnect drives,since I have over 7 Terabytes between the 6 PCs. So sending the drives in to be configured was the best solution for me.

Why did you lose your logos? I did the same thing and I didn't lose the logos...I even sent them an e-mail making SURE that I would not lose the logos...did you replace the original drive as well? why replace the original drive and replace it with a drive that's the same size? I'm guessing so you can restore it if something goes wrong but that seems to be a pretty expensive insurance...I just closed my eyes and prayed that it worked :p

[weaknees]

The lost-logos happens if you move software from one HR10-250 to another. In that case, you need to do a "Clear and delete everything" to reserialize the software, and logos are lost in the process.

aaronwt sent us the new drives, but not the old ones (presumably he wanted to actually USE the HD TiVo in the interim) so logos were lost. But we certainly expect them to be back with the first software update.

Michael

[Anubys]

I know I'm missing something obvious so please excuse my ignorance...

so, I have a HD-Tivo with the original drive. I buy a 250 GB HD and send it to you guys. You do what you do and send it back to me. I have my HD-Tivo to use during all that time. I now add this drive as a B drive next to the original (as A). In this case, no logos are lost (I know because this is what I did).

So question 1: what did aaronwt do differently from this scenario which resulted in losing the logos?

question 2: what is the advantage of doing it differently from what I did (keeping in mind the disadvantage of losing the logos)?

[weaknees]

aaronwt sent us two drive sets - I'm not sure if he wanted to keep his as backups, or if they were just larger than 250 GB and he wanted to use all of the capacity.

If you're just adding one drive, then you plan makes more sense in every way: you keep use of the TiVo, and you get your logos.

[aaronwt]

I wanted to keep my original drives in case I needed to reinstall them for a warranty issue. That way if there is a problem in the future, like HDMI output dying, then I can take out the Twinbreeze and my two Maxtor drives and reinstall the original WD drive and send it back for a warranty replacement.
I also wanted to continue using my HD-TiVos, that's why I didn't send the original in to be copied.

[LarryInAz]

Originally posted by flapbreaker
Ok i am on the right track now. I put the two drives on seperate ide buses and now I completed the backup in about 5 minutes (after endless hours of tinkering)...

Is it accurate that creating a backup works better if the original and the backup drives should be on seperate IDE channels? I have created many images by booting from the CD [Secondary master - hdc]. DOS based hard drive as Primary master - hda and original single drive TiVo as Primaty slave - hdb. These have all been 40gb SD TiVos. I'm trying to create an image of my replacement HR10-250 the same way however the line:
"Scanning source drive. Please wait a moment" has been displayed for 90+ minutes and the cursor just blinks. I assume the scanning would take longer because of the 250gb size vs the 40gb drives on my previous backup, but 90+ minutes? :confused:

FYI, I booted up with the large drive version of the tools cd - I hit enter twice. When I hit enter after the line "Please hit <enter> to continue!"
I get the following message in return - "mount: No medium found" "cat: /cdrom/ .menu/ startup No such menu or file"
Nevertheless at the # prompt I type:
mount /dev/hdb1 /mnt
mfsbackup -f 9999 -1so /mnt/hdtivo.bak /dev/hda

I then get the "Scanning source drive..." line but nothing seems to be happening. In searching the forum the only thing I've seen that I might be doing wrong is a few posts saying the backup drive and the orignal TiVo drive needs to be on seperate channels.

FWIW, I'm wanting to create an image of this HR10 because my previous image does not have logos, this newer unit does. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

[dr_mal]

Originally posted by LarryInAz
Is it accurate that creating a backup works better if the original and the backup drives should be on seperate IDE channels?
It's more accurate that creating a backup works at all - not better - if the original and backup drives are on separate IDE channels.

On the same channel, you could be watching that blinking cursor for a very long time.

[weaknees]

90 minutes is definitely too long. What sizes did the drives show on startup?

You shouldn't need drives on separate channels, but that shouldn't matter either way.

Michael

[LarryInAz]

Originally posted by weaknees
90 minutes is definitely too long. What sizes did the drives show on startup?

You shouldn't need drives on separate channels, but that shouldn't matter either way.

Michael

hda [original TiVo drive] 250gb
hdb [Dos drive to create image] 20gb
hdc DVD reader
hdd DVD burner

[LarryInAz]

I went to bed while the cursor kept blinking and blinking giving it the benefit of the doubt. When I woke up 6 hours later the cursor was still blinking away. I hit CTRL+C to stop the action, rebooted the machine and hooked up the drives to seperate channels as a few had recommended.
This time it scanned the source drive for about 3 minutes and image creation began just fine. :up: :up: :up:

I'm baffled why I had no problems creating images hooking the 2 drives on the same IDE channel in the past though [mind you they were all SD type TiVo's]... :confused:

[RC3105]

it's fairly common for various ide drives to refuse to play nice on the same bus, even with when they're from the same manufacturer

[LarryInAz]

Just curous about image sizes - my HD TiVo image is 192megs [197,570KB] while an image I created from the new 540040 Series2 standalone is a whopping 592megs [604,681KB]. Does this seem right?

[weaknees]

Did you use the same compression (-1so) and the fsid switch (-f 9999) each time? I'd have to look at the office, but I think those files should be a bit closer in size.

Michael

[LarryInAz]

Originally posted by weaknees
Did you use the same compression (-1so) and the fsid switch (-f 9999) each time? I'd have to look at the office, but I think those files should be a bit closer in size.

Michael

Used the exact same instructions on both. I restored the large Series 2 image twice successfully to larger drives and it worked great. I just checked my earlier image of an HR10-250 that lacked logos and it's 153mb [160,862 kb] so that's right in line with the image I just created that has logos.

[FlopShot]

I had all kinds of problems making a valid backup of the HR10-250 drive to my hard disk. Backup was successful but took over 24hrs to complete, then when I tried to restore it to new 250GB drive, it would get stuck at 108 sectors. Tried multiple attempts at backup/restore, all with the same results. Finally did a -Tao directly from original to new disk and it went smoothly. Of course, now had to buy another 250Gb drive for the second drive, since I didn't dare touch the original drive without a valid backup anywhere. Installed both new drives into a Twinbreeze and it's been running great for a week with no problems. Would love to make a valid backup image at some point, if anyone else had the same problems and could give me some pointers.

[FlopShot]

Originally posted by Mr Pieces
I've read through about 10 pages of this thread and haven't found the method to add a 250gb drive to a HD TiVo. I just got the bracket in from weaknees and want to add a 250gb drive. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be great!

I just essentially did this research for twin 250GB, having the same problem as you figuring out exactly what I need to do, so here it is plain and simple. Since the new second drive is <256GB, then all you have to do is:
1) hook it up to your PC
2) boot with the LBA48 version of MFSTools (link provided earlier by PTV)
3) run BlessTiVo on the new drive.
4) Hook up the two drives to the TwinBreeze and verify you have double the hours. My two 250GB drives ended up as "63hrs HD or 425hrs SD."

You do not need to run mfsadd afterwards because that only deals with the extra space above 256Gb (I actually tried anyway, and it reported "nothing to add".) Good luck.

[tmtech]

This was a great help to me... I just upgraded my hd-tivo to two 300G drives. Worked like a charm. The big "problem" for me was I used dd to backup my original drive since I wanted to preserve programming. That was a LONG backup!! I also had to switch to a configuration where each drive was on a different IDE channel.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2101784#post2101784

BTW The twinbreeze monts are great. They don' leave a footprint if you need to send your box in for service and were very easy to install. I'd used 9thtee on my d-tivo's and like this product much more.

Tom

Originally posted by FlopShot
I had all kinds of problems making a valid backup of the HR10-250 drive to my hard disk. Backup was successful but took over 24hrs to complete, then when I tried to restore it to new 250GB drive, it would get stuck at 108 sectors. Tried multiple attempts at backup/restore, all with the same results. Finally did a -Tao directly from original to new disk and it went smoothly. Of course, now had to buy another 250Gb drive for the second drive, since I didn't dare touch the original drive without a valid backup anywhere. Installed both new drives into a Twinbreeze and it's been running great for a week with no problems. Would love to make a valid backup image at some point, if anyone else had the same problems and could give me some pointers.

[weaknees]

FlopShot-

Can you describe what you did?

[weaknees]

Originally posted by tmtech
This was a great help to me... I just upgraded my hd-tivo to two 300G drives. Worked like a charm. The big "problem" for me was I used dd to backup my original drive since I wanted to preserve programming. That was a LONG backup!! I also had to switch to a configuration where each drive was on a different IDE channel.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=2101784#post2101784

BTW The twinbreeze monts are great. They don' leave a footprint if you need to send your box in for service and were very easy to install. I'd used 9thtee on my d-tivo's and like this product much more.

Tom

You shouldn't NEED to use a different IDE bus for each drive, but it won't hurt, and may increase transfer speed (although with that transfer, it'll still take a while). What size blocks did you use? 1024K? For others, try bs=10M for more speed on a DD.

Michael

[tmtech]

NEED is the right word... I originally used an old dell optiplex on the same channel. That box is a low end very compact unit. I have seen it have issues with Long dd's of drives on the same channel. Then I switched it to a new 3.6ghz dimension and watched it fly.

I suspect the dimension would have had no problem on the same channel, which is as it should be.

I did use bs=1024k... I have two more to upgrade. How much faster would bs=10M be? My backup took about 3 hours.

Tom

Originally posted by weaknees
You shouldn't NEED to use a different IDE bus for each drive, but it won't hurt, and may increase transfer speed (although with that transfer, it'll still take a while). What size blocks did you use? 1024K? For others, try bs=10M for more speed on a DD.

Michael

[weaknees]

My guess is that you'd see about a 10% to 20% speed increase - not a ton, but something when it comes to three hours.

[Mr Pieces]

Originally posted by FlopShot
I just essentially did this research for twin 250GB, having the same problem as you figuring out exactly what I need to do, so here it is plain and simple. Since the new second drive is <256GB, then all you have to do is:
1) hook it up to your PC
2) boot with the LBA48 version of MFSTools (link provided earlier by PTV)
3) run BlessTiVo on the new drive.
4) Hook up the two drives to the TwinBreeze and verify you have double the hours. My two 250GB drives ended up as "63hrs HD or 425hrs SD."

You do not need to run mfsadd afterwards because that only deals with the extra space above 256Gb (I actually tried anyway, and it reported "nothing to add".) Good luck.

Do I need to hook the original HD TiVo drive up to the computer at all or just the add on 250GB drive? I was under the impression that I had to hook my original drive and the new drive to the computer together. I was going to try this tomorrow and wanted to be 100% clear.

Thanks!

[tmtech]

You can bless the second drive without the "A" drive being in the PC. The blessing just preps the drive and the marrying actually takes place in the TiVo...


Originally posted by Mr Pieces
Do I need to hook the original HD TiVo drive up to the computer at all or just the add on 250GB drive? I was under the impression that I had to hook my original drive and the new drive to the computer together. I was going to try this tomorrow and wanted to be 100% clear.

Thanks!

[pbolya]

Originally posted by Mr Pieces
Do I need to hook the original HD TiVo drive up to the computer at all or just the add on 250GB drive? I was under the impression that I had to hook my original drive and the new drive to the computer together. I was going to try this tomorrow and wanted to be 100% clear.

Thanks! You do not need to hook your original drive to the PC at all if you are just adding another 250GB.

However I found it very dangerous not to make a backup before the upgrade. I know it is a hussle and without it it is a 2 minute job but with all the HDMI failures going around it is not a good idea to not to have a backup to restore back from.

[Mr Pieces]

Can I just copy the drive from a friends HD TiVo (Unmodified) in the event of a disaster? Is the drive specific to my tivo?