** HD TiVo and HD DirecTV TiVo FAQ **

[oldskoolboarder]

Tom, I have an HDTiVo, recently replaced by DTV. For the past couple of weeks it's been randomly rebooting now and then. Sometimes, it looks like it's the show that causes it (it hits a certain point and reboots; then the program seems corrupt). Other times, it just happens during the middle of the day. I end up discovering when my 30 second skip goes to the end of my half-hour show.

I haven't looked into it yet. I assume it's the hard drive.

Mine's had the same problem recently. I'm guessing it's the hard drive since I'm recording so many HD premieres, more HD shows than usual.

[Big Daddy P]

Attenuator made it worse. Maybe I'll ask D* for a replacement box on the odd chance I've got a bad one.

[feldon23]

Hi-

I wonder if it would be possible to update the FAQ at the beginning with "no standalone" to reflect the news of the cable card version from the beginning of the year? There's a press release on the TiVo site (that I can't seem to link to since I'm a newb) from Jan of this year.

Not much news on that front lately, I know, but it is the most current that I'm aware of.
Until a HD TiVo product moves out of the vapourware stage, I will not be changing the cable/standalone section.

[Tom in OH]

Mine's had the same problem recently. I'm guessing it's the hard drive since I'm recording so many HD premieres, more HD shows than usual.

same here(more HD than usual with premieres)...happened again yesterday. That's 3 times in a week(while watching). I'm leaning toward the corrupted show theory. Several shows in the past week have been flaky with pixelation, dropouts, audio pops.

[mercurial]

same here(more HD than usual with premieres)...happened again yesterday. That's 3 times in a week(while watching). I'm leaning toward the corrupted show theory. Several shows in the past week have been flaky with pixelation, dropouts, audio pops.

We had that for a while and then it seemed to clear up. I feared the drive was going bad and was debatting replacing it with a dual-drive config since I haven't gotten around to upgrading it yet but it cleared up... <fingers crossed>

[feldon23]

Well, I am trying to update this FAQ, but of course David Bott had continued to tighten the forum restrictions for no apparent reason. I had to remove essential images/logos from my FAQ posting in order to be able to update it.

This just adds insult on top of the ridiculous Signature restrictions foisted upon us about a year ago. This forum is becoming more and more difficult to use. I visit maybe every 3-4 months to see if this FAQ needs updating. It would be a great forum if management would step aside and let it.

I fully expect a ban because that's what usually happens to helpful people here after we try to improve the forum to no avail for several years (i.e. Otto).

[MozAngeles]

"DirecTV TiVos and DirecTV HD TiVos will continue to function for an indefinite period but DirecTV HD TiVos will not be able to receive the HDTV programming DirecTV intends to roll out this fall and through 2006 and 2007. This is because this new programming is in MPEG-4 and will be broadcast from different satellite locations, neither of which the TiVo models can tune to."

PLEASE tell me the $1000 receiver I bought less than a year ago to record HD programs on DirectTV is not now being phased out? It's branded as a DirecTV HD DVR, yet it will not receive the additional programming the new satellites will bring? The whole reason I purchased the receiver and went with DirecTV rather than ZOOM was because of the additional HD channels that were coming in late '05 and 2006. Now you are saying I won't be able to receive them?

Please tell me I just read this wrong...

;(

J

[Rottluver]

"DirecTV TiVos and DirecTV HD TiVos will continue to function for an indefinite period but DirecTV HD TiVos will not be able to receive the HDTV programming DirecTV intends to roll out this fall and through 2006 and 2007. This is because this new programming is in MPEG-4 and will be broadcast from different satellite locations, neither of which the TiVo models can tune to."

PLEASE tell me the $1000 receiver I bought less than a year ago to record HD programs on DirectTV is not now being phased out? It's branded as a DirecTV HD DVR, yet it will not receive the additional programming the new satellites will bring? The whole reason I purchased the receiver and went with DirecTV rather than ZOOM was because of the additional HD channels that were coming in late '05 and 2006. Now you are saying I won't be able to receive them?

Please tell me I just read this wrong...

;(

J
I hate to say it, but I was reading in Consumer Reports latest issue that there is a new form of HD programming coming out (MPEG-4?) and they recommended not buying anything until it is all out and available as the new stuff isn't compatible and/or is significantly better (I don't recall specifically which one it was).............sorry dude. :(

[Randyman...]

Hello,

I am about ready to buy a 37" 1080-p HDTV (dual purpose PC monitor and main HDTV monitor), and I want to upgrade my current SD DirecTV TiVo HDVR2 to the HR10-250 HDTV DirecTV Tivo. I am just now learning about DTV's plan to roll out MPEG-4 programming, and the HR10-250's incompatibility with this format. This seems to throw a big monkey wrench into my plan :( .

The HDTV monitor I am looking at really needs a DVI or HDMI signal to look its best (the analog ins are not so good), so I really need a TiVo with DVI or HDMI outputs, and being a happy DirecTV customer, I had really hoped I could stick with the integrated HDTV TiVo's simplicity (no analog signal degredation - all digital signals, and a DVR, 4 Tuners, HDTV Upconversion, and Digital Audio all in one box - hard to beat that).

What - EXACLY - will the MPEG-4 affect (locals, movie channels, all programming - what?)? I live in Houston, so I imagine my "Off-Air Local HDTV" reception would be pretty good if this would help recoup the omission of MPEG-4 on the HR10-250. TBH - I'll still watch 85% or more of my TV in upconverted "SDTV" (like Simpsons, Family Guy, etc), and I also need a good DVR unit to do 480P or higher HDTV "Upconversion" so my new TV looks its best (its internal upconversion is not the best).

I am literally at the buying stage, and now I find this out. What is your reccomendation for a un-familiar HDTV + DirecTV TiVo fanatic? I love my Hughes HDVR2 SD DirecTV TiVo (120GB HD) with all of my heart - and I would LOVE to retain it's all-in-one approach for a HDTV TiVo with digital video outs. I am willing to compromise a bit of available HDTV content for the AWSOME "all-in-one" integration this box can offer.

Any words of wisdom? I'm itching to buy very soon (from now until Thanksgiving).

I sincerely appreciate any input. :cool:

[jberger]

Just go ahead and buy the existing HDTivo, DirecTV will upgrade you to the new units once everything is in place and functional.

Don't get caught up in waiting for the "next big thing", because there is always something to wait for. The existing unit offers the best HD OTA/DirecTV integration available today, who knows how long it will take DTV to actually get everything in place and actually began the cut over to MPEG-4.

If you need something that have a great internal scaler, you might want to look at DVDO's lineup. The DTIVO doesn't have the best scaler I've seen, but the pure digital signal path does help even on SD material.

[Randyman...]

WOW! Thanks for te quick reply, jberger. I feel better about this now, and I think I will go ahead and proceed as planned. The complete integration of the HD TiVo is so irresistable!!! Having a 37" 1080-p PC monitor will be pretty kewl as well!

As long as the HR10-250's Upconversion looks at least as good as my current SD HDVR-2 via S-Video, I'll be tickled to death!

Thanks a ton for putting my concerns to rest. :cool:

[HDLouco]

WOW! Thanks for te quick reply, jberger. I feel better about this now, and I think I will go ahead and proceed as planned. The complete integration of the HD TiVo is so irresistable!!! Having a 37" 1080-p PC monitor will be pretty kewl as well!

As long as the HR10-250's Upconversion looks at least as good as my current SD HDVR-2 via S-Video, I'll be tickled to death!

Thanks a ton for putting my concerns to rest. :cool:

I ordered my HD Tivo in January of 2004 and received it in June of the same year. I paid $999 minus the $100 discount plus $55 for 2-day shipping. I have never been happier in my life! I love my HD Tivo so much that I just ordered a second one from Directv for $299 minus $100 rebate and minus 6 months of HD Pagacke. I can't wait to get my second unit on October 21st (next Friday) because today, October 16th, I took delivery of what I think is the same monitor you are thinking of buying. I am talking about the Westinghouse 37-inch HD monitor. I have not used my first HD Tivo's HDMI output so far because my old HDTV is an RCA 38-inch set that has only analog component inputs. I am looking forward to evaluating the possible improvement in video quality by using an all-digital system with the Westinghouse monitor and the new HD Tivo next Friday. Good luck to you.

[feldon23]

PLEASE tell me the $1000 receiver I bought less than a year ago to record HD programs on DirectTV is not now being phased out?
It is. This was announced several months ago. I just formalized it by including it in this FAQ.

It's branded as a DirecTV HD DVR, yet it will not receive the additional programming the new satellites will bring?
Also correct.
The whole reason I purchased the receiver and went with DirecTV rather than ZOOM was because of the additional HD channels that were coming in late '05 and 2006. Now you are saying I won't be able to receive them?
Correct. a non-TiVo replacement DVR will be made available in summer 2006. For an annoying 6+ months, the new HD channels will be available but not recordable.

DirecTV is handling this ALL WRONG.


If it's any consolation, I'm hearing rumors that DirecTV will replace your DTiVo or HDTV TiVo for free with their new DirecTV/NDS DVRs.


We have NO IDEA how all this MPEG-4 stuff is going to shake out. We may need new multiswitches, more/new wiring, new dishes, etc.

[Tlamb]

I think my HD TIVO is dying, how long should a Clear & Delete take? It has already been almost 10hrs!!! Thanks for the help.

[Randyman...]

I can't wait to get my second unit on October 21st (next Friday) because today, October 16th, I took delivery of what I think is the same monitor you are thinking of buying. I am talking about the Westinghouse 37-inch HD monitor. I have not used my first HD Tivo's HDMI output so far because my old HDTV is an RCA 38-inch set that has only analog component inputs. I am looking forward to evaluating the possible improvement in video quality by using an all-digital system with the Westinghouse monitor and the new HD Tivo next Friday. Good luck to you.

You guessed it! :) Westinghouse 37" 1080-p with Dual DVI (w/HDCP) inputs. I'm just trying to find one on display so I can mess with it, and make sure I will be satisfied with the black levels and general PQ compared to my Wega 27" Tube. As long as it is not horrible, I'm willing to compromise slightly on the Black levels and PQ, and I get a killer PC monitor out of the deal, too! Let me know how you like yours once you get it all tweaked out.

I'll probably look into buying the HR10-250 today (any links on killer deals?), and buy the 37" TV ASAP. I'm really hoping DTV will follow through with the replacement HDTV DVR's. Fingers crossed. Thanks for you guy's info.

:cool:

[Anubys]

I think my HD TIVO is dying, how long should a Clear & Delete take? It has already been almost 10hrs!!! Thanks for the help.

I have one with two 250 GB hard drives. My C&D took about 3 hours.

[Tlamb]

FYI - Clear & Delete never finished - new hard drive arrived from Weaknees - replaced old drive in about 10 minutes - so far so good!!!!! :)

[tall1]

I hate to say it, but I was reading in Consumer Reports latest issue that there is a new form of HD programming coming out (MPEG-4?) and they recommended not buying anything until it is all out and available as the new stuff isn't compatible and/or is significantly better (I don't recall specifically which one it was).............sorry dude. :(That seals it for me, anything consumer reports recommends is bogus so I feel even more confident about my decision to purchase an HD Tivo now.

[TXTivoUser]

Editing to update:

Had a quick question about setup and recording...

1 - If I set up a recording for a show that I can get in both HD (OTA) and SD (D*), how does Tivo handle that? I obviously would like it to record in HD if it can. Is there any logic to switch to SD recording if I'm having signal issues on OTA?

Still need ideas on this...

2 - I've already got an OTA antenna in my attic that goes to my TV that has a built in tuner. Can I use that antenna and split that signal so that I can still use the built in antenna plus let Tivo have access to record on OTA HD?

- Turns out I found out that this can be done via a simple splitter. Maybe the installer will have one to give me.

TIA

[such]

Editing to update:

Had a quick question about setup and recording...

1 - If I set up a recording for a show that I can get in both HD (OTA) and SD (D*), how does Tivo handle that? I obviously would like it to record in HD if it can. Is there any logic to switch to SD recording if I'm having signal issues on OTA?

Still need ideas on this...

TIA

When you set up a recording/season pass selected either by time, or by title, it is recorded on the channel you specify (the HD or SD channel).

[Anubys]

Is there any logic to switch to SD recording if I'm having signal issues on OTA?


no. if the signal fades, you're SOL...

[jelberse]

It is. This was announced several months ago. I just formalized it by including it in this FAQ.


Also correct.

Correct. a non-TiVo replacement DVR will be made available in summer 2006. For an annoying 6+ months, the new HD channels will be available but not recordable.

DirecTV is handling this ALL WRONG.


If it's any consolation, I'm hearing rumors that DirecTV will replace your DTiVo or HDTV TiVo for free with their new DirecTV/NDS DVRs.


We have NO IDEA how all this MPEG-4 stuff is going to shake out. We may need new multiswitches, more/new wiring, new dishes, etc.

Question: you note a non-Tivo replacement DVR will be made available in 2006. Then you say the new HD programs will not be recordable. I take it this means that the new DVR only records standard resolution. The question is: given the current (non) relationship between Tivo and Directv, is there likely to be a new integrated Directv HD Tivo at some point? How about just any HD Tivo that works with Directv? Does anyone know?

Thanks.

[feldon23]

Question: you note a non-Tivo replacement DVR will be made available in 2006. Then you say the new HD programs will not be recordable. I take it this means that the new DVR only records standard resolution. The question is: given the current (non) relationship between Tivo and Directv, is there likely to be a new integrated Directv HD Tivo at some point? How about just any HD Tivo that works with Directv? Does anyone know?

Thanks.
There will be no HD DVR for DirecTV for 8-10 months that can record anything off the new Spaceway HDTV satellites because of their MPEG-4 format. No TiVo can record them and the HD DVR from DirecTV's own shop, NDS, is 8-10 months away.

DirecTV has all but severed their contract with TiVo. Do not expect any future DirecTV-integrated TiVo products.

[christoc]

There will be no HD DVR for DirecTV for 8-10 months that can record anything off the new Spaceway HDTV satellites because of their MPEG-4 format. No TiVo can record them and the HD DVR from DirecTV's own shop, NDS, is 8-10 months away.


Wow, I'm glad I read here first, I was going to pick up a HD Tivo for DirectTV in the next week or so to go with my new plasma TV. Guess now I'll look for another alternative.

That sucks

[tivoupgrade]

Wow, I'm glad I read here first, I was going to pick up a HD Tivo for DirectTV in the next week or so to go with my new plasma TV. Guess now I'll look for another alternative.

That sucks

Seems like all the more reason to pick one up unless you are not in market that has good MPEG2 and OTA coverage.

From everything I'm hearing, DirecTV will continue to sell TiVo systems for the forseeable future, but not be proactive in Marketing them. It sure does seem to me that the new stuff DirecTV will be marketing is much more generic and geared towards "regular" DirecTV customers and those who might be comparing with the "comparable" Comcast offerings.

Obviously I have a different perspective, as a vendor who has something to sell today, but unless I'm missing something, there isn't much of a reason to not consider purchasing something like an HR10-250 today unless you place much higher value on local market channels that will only be available in MPEG4 vs the OTA and MPEG2 content that is out there today... am I missing something here?

[DoubleDown]

1) I couldn't get any signal strength to come up for OTA, regardless of channel chosen, which of course probably doesn't matter much since the channels seem to be coming in OK.


You have to use the digital channel/UHF counterpart ie in my area:
KDLH - CBS - Analog 3 - Digital 33
KBJR - NBC - Analog 6 - Digital 19
WDSE - PBS - Analog 8 - Digital 38
WDIO - ABC - Analog 10 - Digital 43
KQDS - FOX - Analog 21 - Digital 17

I just figured out the channel issue- while in the guide, press info, and select channels you receive.

I setup the volume to control my yamaha receiver after I programmed the TV and it works fine.

I have a total Newb question..... Do you have to call DirectTV to activate your Tivo service? ie, to use Tivo.com to schedule a program? or is what I see what I get?

Thanks

[PortlandPaw]

Thank you for a terrific overview of HDTV and TiVo. This may have been covered elsewhere, but I haven't been able to find it, so I'll ask here.

What is the future of TiVo when HDTV becomes the only signal available?

I understand that people will be able to buy converters so that their old sets can receive the signal, but what does that mean for people (like me) bringing the satellite signal in through a DirecTivo or through a satellite receiver plugged into a standalone TiVo (also me)?

Will DirecTV continue to beam down conventional signals or will they all be HD? If HD, will there be a converter available that will feed into our current equipment? Or are we doomed to replace it all?

In advance, I thank you for your insights.

[bigpuma]

Thank you for a terrific overview of HDTV and TiVo. This may have been covered elsewhere, but I haven't been able to find it, so I'll ask here.

What is the future of TiVo when HDTV becomes the only signal available?

I understand that people will be able to buy converters so that their old sets can receive the signal, but what does that mean for people (like me) bringing the satellite signal in through a DirecTivo or through a satellite receiver plugged into a standalone TiVo (also me)?

Will DirecTV continue to beam down conventional signals or will they all be HD? If HD, will there be a converter available that will feed into our current equipment? Or are we doomed to replace it all?

In advance, I thank you for your insights.

It will be a long time before all channels are HD. I think you are referring to the FCC mandate that all over the air (OTA) signals switch to digital. That will have zero impact on DirecTV as it only applies to Networks broadcasting signals over the airwaves. By the time every channel becomes HD your DirecTivo will be a distant memory.

[PortlandPaw]

That's a relief and it makes sense. Now if we can only assure that DirecTV continues to support TiVo, we'll be all set. Thanks for the info.

[gregftlaud]

when my paricular market upgrades and they come out and put up the new mpeg4 dish....will it still work with my hr10-250 other than receiving any new hd channels dtv adds to their lineup?

basically i know i can still use my hr10 to record locals ota...but will i still be able to receive the total choice plus package channels with the mpeg4 technology with my hr10-250?

greg

[dswallow]

when my paricular market upgrades and they come out and put up the new mpeg4 dish....will it still work with my hr10-250 other than receiving any new hd channels dtv adds to their lineup?

basically i know i can still use my hr10 to record locals ota...but will i still be able to receive the total choice plus package channels with the mpeg4 technology with my hr10-250?
The technology is compatible, however the new 5-LNB Ka-band dish uses the frequency ranges above and below the existing used frequencies for the Ka-band satellite signals. While you can probably still diplex OTA signals on lines feeding non-MPEG4/Ka-band receivers, you won't be able to get an OTA signal to the new receivers using diplexers without sacrificing the ability to tune some Ka-band signals -- which may or may not be tolerated well by the new receivers.

[JHanafin]

I just bought a DLP HDTV set and I have an HDTV cable box from Cablevision... But an older Series 1 Sony standalone TiVo. I understand it will only play back content in standard definition.

Now forgive the ignorance... I've been reading the thread, but I just want to make sure... I'd like to buy an HDTV Tivo, but what I'm reading in this thread is that it's only available for DirecTV and there are no plans for a standalone HDTV TiVo?

If so, do you have any suggestions for recording HDTV?

I have a feeling I may need to sack the TiVo altogether. It seems like it won't be able to output a decent-enough picture for the new set. (Set would be too good for it, IOW... or I'd be able to see artifacts or whatever.)

[DCIFRTHS]

.... Now forgive the ignorance... I've been reading the thread, but I just want to make sure... I'd like to buy an HDTV Tivo, but what I'm reading in this thread is that it's only available for DirecTV and there are no plans for a standalone HDTV TiVo? ....


See this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=3466607#post3466607) for more information on the upcoming HD TiVo.

[emains]

Why would anyone want to get a tivo now when they are not compatible with HDTV. I certainly would discourage anyone that I know from getting one now. Everyone is going to want to have HDTV and want to have a DVR that works with it.

[Anubys]

Why would anyone want to get a tivo now when they are not compatible with HDTV. I certainly would discourage anyone that I know from getting one now. Everyone is going to want to have HDTV and want to have a DVR that works with it.

welcome to the forum...I'm not sure what you're talking about since there's a HD-Tivo unit out for quite some time now...

[flmgrip]

emains, i would educate myself a little more before making such a blunt and unnecessary comment. any TIVO is compatible with an HDTV, i have been watching my SD tivo for two years now on my HDTV. i will upgrade soon to an HD tivo which will deliver me even better pictures on certain programing. and unlike some HD cable boxes the HDMI output actually works....

welcome to the forum, read up a little and you will see what's going on.

i have not watched LIVE tv for two years now. and i am loving every moment of it on my HDTV !

[The_Dude99]

I called and went to Comcast tonight. The only deal they would give me was $30 off a month for service. They would not go under $499-100MIR. Where did I go wrong? The CSR kept on telling me why would you want used equipment from a cable company. He kept on trying to rip cable. So basically I got HD DVR for free with cable.

[AlpineZone]

Wow, I'm glad I read here first, I was going to pick up a HD Tivo for DirectTV in the next week or so to go with my new plasma TV. Guess now I'll look for another alternative.

That sucks
You ain't kidding. I'm in the same boat...

welcome to the forum...I'm not sure what you're talking about since there's a HD-Tivo unit out for quite some time now...
I think what emains meant is, according to this:

What is the future of the DirecTV HD TiVo?

DirecTV TiVos and DirecTV HD TiVos will continue to function for an indefinite period but DirecTV HD TiVos will not be able to receive the HDTV programming DirecTV intends to roll out this fall and through 2006 and 2007. This is because this new programming is in MPEG-4 and will be broadcast from different satellite locations, neither of which the TiVo models can tune to.
...there's no point in spending 5 bills to buy a DirecTV HR10-250 if it's not compatible with the HD format that DirecTV plans to use soon...

I'm majorly bummed about this. We just got a Panny plasma EDTV and so far I've been really happy with our SD DirecTiVo. Now I don't know what to do... :confused:

[tivoupgrade]

You ain't kidding. I'm in the same boat...


I think what emains meant is, according to this:


...there's no point in spending 5 bills to buy a DirecTV HR10-250 if it's not compatible with the HD format that DirecTV plans to use soon...

I'm majorly bummed about this. We just got a Panny plasma EDTV and so far I've been really happy with our SD DirecTiVo. Now I don't know what to do... :confused:

Have you ever seen Annie Hall? Alvy stops doing his homework because he finds out that the universe is expanding and that one day it will break apart and it will all be over. So what's the purpose of doing homework?

Bottom line: Don't confuse the trend with reality. There are currently no alternatives to the HR10-250 out there (that I know of) and even when they are announced, and eventually become available, it will be quite some time before the units that are being sold today will no longer work. DirecTV has not announced any timeline for the death of MPEG2 only a plan to implement MPEG4. I guess if you are worried about spending $500 for HDTV DVR because it may not work in 3 or 4 years, that is one thing, but is that really what you are worried about?

Slightly off-topic: if the introduction of the R15 is any foreshadowing of other products we will be seeing from DirecTV, then many of you folks may be unecessarily holding your breath, as well. This new fleet of products appears to be even more commodity-oriented than the currently available product. ie, cheaper, less functionality, and certainly not designed to "compete" with TiVo. Remember, DirecTV isn't out there trying to replace all the TiVo systems - they are trying to keep Comcast off their turf...

[AlpineZone]

I guess if you are worried about spending $500 for HDTV DVR because it may not work in 3 or 4 years, that is one thing, but is that really what you are worried about?
Of course not. If 3 or 4 years is the reality, I'm totally fine with that. Perhaps even a year or two. On the AVS Forum, there has been mention of DirecTV being willing to replace HD TiVos with whatever their new HD recorder is when it's released. Can anyone confirm that?

So, is it a majority opinion that one should just go ahead and proceed with an HR10-250 purchase despite the DirecTV / TiVo marriage ending?

[flmgrip]

You ain't kidding. I'm in the same boat...


I think what emains meant is, according to this:


...there's no point in spending 5 bills to buy a DirecTV HR10-250 if it's not compatible with the HD format that DirecTV plans to use soon...

I'm majorly bummed about this. We just got a Panny plasma EDTV and so far I've been really happy with our SD DirecTiVo. Now I don't know what to do... :confused:

i'd be more concerned that if you really bought an EDTV and not an HDTV that you just dropped more than five bills on something that is already outdated and can not even truly display HDTV since you are missing some of the resolution...

[nunya999]

I have an HDVR2 that's hacked for a web interface, downloading of recordings and no call outs. Been using it for 2 years and LOVE it. I'm ready to upgrade to HD and wonder if this new box is hackable for the same features? TYI

[Mikey Palmice]

Of course not. If 3 or 4 years is the reality, I'm totally fine with that. Perhaps even a year or two. On the AVS Forum, there has been mention of DirecTV being willing to replace HD TiVos with whatever their new HD recorder is when it's released. Can anyone confirm that?

So, is it a majority opinion that one should just go ahead and proceed with an HR10-250 purchase despite the DirecTV / TiVo marriage ending?

Here is what you have to do my friend. Call up DirecTV, ask for retention. Tell them you have done a lot of research about all of this. Tell them that you just spent your hard earned money on a unit that you have discovered may not be able to pick up your HD Locals in the near future. Tell them you were mislead by previous reps, and told that you were told that this device can be upgraded (which it can't). Tell them you want a 200 dollar credit on your next bill, because you can not use this box once the mpeg4 goes into full swing.

They told me at some point you will not be able to get your HD locals with this box, however there is nothing in concrete that says when this will be. Tell them you will not pay for this uncertainty, and you would not get this uncertainty with cable. They could not promise me I would receive my HD locals with my box at least up to the point that the new mpeg4 HD DVR come out mid 2006. I ended up paying 99 dollars for this HD DVR, and I am very happy. Even if they do cut my locals before the new DVR comes out, it won't be as big a deal, as my investment was only 100 bucks.

You need to use the conusion and mis-information at direcTV to your advantage. Believe me, they have taken advantage of the un-informed customers that are still paying 600 for the box.

I rep actually had the balls to tell me that the current HD-DVR could be upgraded with a software download, I was lied to, and I made them pay for it.

Don't take no for an answer.

One question though, why did you buy an EDTV if you want HDTV service?

[AlpineZone]

One question though, why did you buy an EDTV if you want HDTV service?
For one, I'm not a huge AV techie like probably most of you all. Our family room is rather large and we sit probably 15+ feet from the set. Given that, I didn't see that we would have benefited by paying a thousand dollars more for the HDTV version over the ED. It was simply a cost:benefit judgment call on my part. The EDTV is fine for our viewing purpose. Interesting how some would rather criticise my ED/HD decision than to provide feedback on my actual question. :confused:

[tivoupgrade]

You need to use the confusion and mis-information at direcTV to your advantage. Believe me, they have taken advantage of the un-informed customers that are still paying 600 for the box.


I have to agree, there is a lot of misinformation out there. Basically, what is happening is that people make up their own stories to fill the vacuum. Based upon a few nuggets of information I've received, my story is this:

There are many local markets out there that will not receive MPEG2 broadcasts; when locals come online, it will be MPEG4 for those markets, and those markets will be eligible for free MPEG4 receivers (swap out). I do not think this applies to DVR/TiVo systems, and I think the lack of a 'statement' with respect to DVR's in this context is causing the confusion.

Longer term, DirecTV will switch over to MPEG4, and there will be a transition plan. This will take years, and MPEG2 streams won't be shut off until the bulk of the devices out there are MPEG4.

Given that there isn't any availability of MPEG4 DVR systems (SD or HD), let alone even an announcement as to when they will be available, this isn't something we should be worried about right now.

BTW, I don't think anyone is actively taking advantage of anyone; I think that there IS confusion and that people are just filling in the gaps as best they can.

[Mikey Palmice]

For one, I'm not a huge AV techie like probably most of you all. Our family room is rather large and we sit probably 15+ feet from the set. Given that, I didn't see that we would have benefited by paying a thousand dollars more for the HDTV version over the ED. It was simply a cost:benefit judgment call on my part. The EDTV is fine for our viewing purpose. Interesting how some would rather criticise my ED/HD decision than to provide feedback on my actual question. :confused:

Oh, that's cool, but I think I did answer your question in the first 4 paragraphs of my answer. ;)

[AlpineZone]

Oh, that's cool, but I think I did answer your question in the first 4 paragraphs of my answer. ;)
You did. Thank you.

[Anubys]

Interesting how some would rather criticise my ED/HD decision than to provide feedback on my actual question. :confused:

booze is the answer. Now what was the question again? :D

[rcuriel]

I saw these at the local best buy on sale and wanted the HD Recording capabilities
and dual tuners, but don't want to use DirecTV's service. Will the Tivo capabilities and other features still work with just OTA inputs?

Thanks!

Ray

[jrm_at_tivocomm]

OK, so I'm trying to figure out all this new-satellites-and-service stuff. I called DTV about the status of the current HD-with-TiVo box, and was told by two different people that there will be an upgrade coming to that box that would enable it to work with the MPEG-4 satellites. Once upgraded, the box will be able to receive all HD content offered by DTV, with the content fully TiVo-able. They were uncertain when the MPEG-4 services would be coming online and when the upgrade would be available, which could raise questions about whether a gap might emerge between the new services coming online and the upgrade coming out, and that's of course a little bothersome. And, of course, the world could change completely. But unless I'm missing something, this sounds encouraging, and even close to the Right Thing. I called TiVo to check this out at their end, but they're closed now. Maybe tomorrow.

Anyway, for those of you who know more about this than I (which is almost everyone, I expect) -- am I missing something? This is sounding much less dire than what I had been hearing up to now. Of course, that's the job of the people on the DTV phone lines...

[Budget_HT]

I saw these at the local best buy on sale and wanted the HD Recording capabilities
and dual tuners, but don't want to use DirecTV's service. Will the Tivo capabilities and other features still work with just OTA inputs?

Thanks!

Ray

All of the meaningful functionality of the HR10-250 HD TiVo is lost if you don't have an active DirecTV subscription. Even the "on sale" price is partly a DirecTV rebate only available after you subscribe and commit to two years or pay an early out penalty.

That said, I have two HD TiVos and I would not part with them until something equal or better (in MY judgement) comes along at little or no cost to me.

[Budget_HT]

OK, so I'm trying to figure out all this new-satellites-and-service stuff. I called DTV about the status of the current HD-with-TiVo box, and was told by two different people that there will be an upgrade coming to that box that would enable it to work with the MPEG-4 satellites. Once upgraded, the box will be able to receive all HD content offered by DTV, with the content fully TiVo-able. They were uncertain when the MPEG-4 services would be coming online and when the upgrade would be available, which could raise questions about whether a gap might emerge between the new services coming online and the upgrade coming out, and that's of course a little bothersome. And, of course, the world could change completely. But unless I'm missing something, this sounds encouraging, and even close to the Right Thing. I called TiVo to check this out at their end, but they're closed now. Maybe tomorrow.

Anyway, for those of you who know more about this than I (which is almost everyone, I expect) -- am I missing something? This is sounding much less dire than what I had been hearing up to now. Of course, that's the job of the people on the DTV phone lines...

This kind of misinformation from DirecTV CSRs is unforgiveable.

The HR10-250 will never work with MPEG-4. The "upgrade" is really a replacement HD DVR that is NOT TiVo-software-based, but rather NDS-software-based from a sister company of DirecTV.

[cplittle06]

I have the HR10-250 connected via HDMI to a Samsung DLP (HL-R4266W), but the reception on non-HD channels is worse than most tube TVs (fuzzy, pixilation which I assume is caused by format conversion). Are there any configurable options via the DirecTV box, TV, cabling (switch to component cables), etc. that will improve my picture?

To take the next step, I guess I could purchase an OTA antenna but do not want to put anymore money into this setup than I already have. What's the latest news on HD local rollout to North Carolina (specifically the Triad)?

[cplittle06]

Sorry, reposted as separate thread. Please ignore previous post!

[jrm_at_tivocomm]

[see previous posting about DTV telling me that an upgrade for their current HD/TiVo box would make it work with the new MPEG-4 service]

So, I called TiVo today to ask about this question from their end. The rep I spoke to said that she didn't know anything about DTV's plans ("they're our competitor, after all"), but that TiVo had recently announced that they would be shipping an HD-capable TiVo box. She said there had been a press release about this, but I couldn't find anything like that in the press section of the TiVo site.

I >>really<< like not knowing who to believe here. It's not like substantial amounts of money are at play here...

[feldon23]

I do not think this applies to DVR/TiVo systems
Swapout of DVR/TiVo HD is supposed to be June 2006.


BTW, I don't think anyone is actively taking advantage of anyone; I think that there IS confusion and that people are just filling in the gaps as best they can.
If people read this forum they'll know all the facts. I may have to write a transitional FAQ but that would be worthless since this forum will be closed soon.

[feldon23]

Folks, there is NO MYSTERY. People are choosing to confuse themselves instead of read the facts. Don't waste your time calling DirecTV, TiVo, or anyone else. The people you talk to are insulated from the facts.


TiVo is developing an HD TiVo for Comcast.
DirecTV/NDS is developing an HD DVR for DirecTV.
and never the twain shall meet.

DirecTV is not getting any more MPEG-2 channels (HBO HD, Showtime HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN, ABC HD, NBC HD, CBS HD) and will eventually turn those all off and provide them in MPEG-4 only.

Starting in December 2005, DirecTV started offering local channels in High Definition in MPEG-4 format to its subscribers in the 12 top cities. This requires a massive new dish and a new MPEG-4 receiver which cannot do any PVR functions. It's just a tuner.

The MPEG-4 DirecTV DVR comes out in Summer 2006. It will not be a TiVo.

Anyone buying an HR10-250, the DirecTV TiVo HD receiver (which cannot do MPEG-4) is gambling that DirecTV will offer a buyback/tradein to their new HD MPEG-4 DVR when it becomes available in Summer 2006. A few people who already have no trouble receiving local channels in HD with an ordinary antenna will be satisfied with the TiVo HR10-250 for the time being until DirecTV starts offering MPEG-4 exclusive channels.

[dialleft]

Anyone buying an HR10-250, the DirecTV TiVo HD receiver (which cannot do MPEG-4) is gambling that DirecTV will offer a buyback/tradein to their new HD MPEG-4 DVR when it becomes available in Summer 2006.

Perhaps no longer a gamble. I just received the HR 10-250 this week. When I ordered it from D* I asked whether it will soon be obsolete. The answer was, "Yes, probably in 6-12 months." They offered to replace it for a total $14.95 fee, including any required dish upgrade. She made a permanent note in my file, and she gave me her employee number.

[Anubys]

The MPEG-4 DirecTV DVR comes out in Summer 2006. It will not be a TiVo.

Anyone buying an HR10-250, the DirecTV TiVo HD receiver (which cannot do MPEG-4) is gambling that DirecTV will offer a buyback/tradein to their new HD MPEG-4 DVR when it becomes available in Summer 2006.

I don't understand why you call it a gamble when DirecTV has been quoted many times as saying that they will offer existing HD-Tivo owners a trade-in option for little or no money...

[bicker]

She made a permanent note in my fileI hope you understand the difference between making a permanent note in your file, and giving you written confirmation of what she said.

[sosaescobar]

Well I've had my HR10-250 since October. I'm just hearing about this today. I guess that's what I get for not coming to this site often. Now, for the current HR10-250 owners. What are you guys planning on doing when we can't get HD channels anymore? From what I've read this new DirectTV dvr is getting a bad rap so far. I like DTV and don't plan on leaving them. But I hope their new box is comparable to the Tivos.

[ddrultramix]

I am so confused, I was told (I think by BestBuy) that Tivo cant record HDTV yet.

[maharg18]

I am so confused, I was told (I think by BestBuy) that Tivo cant record HDTV yet.


The HR10-250 Directv HD Tivo can indeed record HD. It is true that standalone Tivos cannot, but that should change in 2006.

[ddrultramix]

When will the time come where everyone has to switch to HDTV? (Or will that not ever happen?)

[maharg18]

When will the time come where everyone has to switch to HDTV? (Or will that not ever happen?)


There is no requirement to switch to HDTV. Over-the-air TV stations are required to go digital-only (in early 2009 as it stands now). There is no requirement for them to transmit HDTV over their digital channel if they don't want to.

None of this affects cable or satellite channels either. They can go HD whenever they want to, but there is no requirement.

[sosaescobar]

They use to say '06. But I just read something recently that says that '06 date is being pushed back. I'm hearing '09 now. But you know how things change.

[tivoupgrade]

Folks, there is NO MYSTERY. People are choosing to confuse themselves instead of read the facts. Don't waste your time calling DirecTV, TiVo, or anyone else. The people you talk to are insulated from the facts.


TiVo is developing an HD TiVo for Comcast.
DirecTV/NDS is developing an HD DVR for DirecTV.
and never the twain shall meet.

DirecTV is not getting any more MPEG-2 channels (HBO HD, Showtime HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN, ABC HD, NBC HD, CBS HD) and will eventually turn those all off and provide them in MPEG-4 only.

Starting in December 2005, DirecTV started offering local channels in High Definition in MPEG-4 format to its subscribers in the 12 top cities. This requires a massive new dish and a new MPEG-4 receiver which cannot do any PVR functions. It's just a tuner.

The MPEG-4 DirecTV DVR comes out in Summer 2006. It will not be a TiVo.

Anyone buying an HR10-250, the DirecTV TiVo HD receiver (which cannot do MPEG-4) is gambling that DirecTV will offer a buyback/tradein to their new HD MPEG-4 DVR when it becomes available in Summer 2006. A few people who already have no trouble receiving local channels in HD with an ordinary antenna will be satisfied with the TiVo HR10-250 for the time being until DirecTV starts offering MPEG-4 exclusive channels.

I think anyone who wants an HD DVR who doesn't purchase an HR10-250 is gambling that they are going to be happy with whatever DirecTV releases this summer.

Personally, my desire to have an MPEG4 box specifically for locals is outweighed by all of the other content which is already available in MPEG2 and will continue to be for the foreseeable future (ie until DirecTV chooses to shutdown the MPEG2 stream, rendering every non MPEG4 box on the network unusable).

I wouldn't count on any buyback/tradein scenario whatsoever when it comes to DVRs from DirecTV.

I wouldn't count on the MPEG2 stream going away any time soon.

I wouldn't worry about purchasing an HR10-250 unless HD locals were particularly important to you...

[jakegoat]

DirecTV is not getting any more MPEG-2 channels (HBO HD, Showtime HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN, ABC HD, NBC HD, CBS HD) and will eventually turn those all off and provide them in MPEG-4 only.


Does anyone have a good idea when this switch over will occur?

I am slightly myopic in my HD use with my HR10-250. I watch HBO HD mostly, and some Travel HD... not the full spread at all.

Best,
Jakegoat

[cheer]

Does anyone have a good idea when this switch over will occur?

I am slightly myopic in my HD use with my HR10-250. I watch HBO HD mostly, and some Travel HD... not the full spread at all.
DirecTV hasn't announced that they will do this EVER, let alone given a schedule. I gotta believe you're safe for at least a couple more years.

[goku4658]

this thread makes me nervous...i just got $300 for xmas to use for tv, and my new sony 42hdtv comes tomorrow. decisions, decisons..

[joetoronto]

mine arrived yesterday and while it's only one day, i'm very, very happy with it.

i hooked it up to my toshiba rdxs-32 (sd hdd dvd recorder) so i can burn dvd's. the pq setting on the tivo has to be set at 480i but with the original source being so clear, the pq i end up with is just fine although not hd.

i also have an hd expressvu receiver so guess what toy i'm eyeing next. :D

the directv guide is slow but not as slow as i thought it would be after reading about it for a week or so here and elsewhere. i'm thinking it might get slower as time goes on but i don't bother with season passes because besides nfl football, i'm only interested in recording movies.

the "list guide" is actually kinda cool for me because i can aim at one particular hd channel, like hdnet movies, and choose a bunch of movies to record. :)

by the way, i spoke to my buddy at directv yesterday while he activated the tivo for me and he said they are well aware of the complaints and concerns from their customers regarding the separation from tivo. he said the company will do everything they can to keep these customers happy, for what it's worth. :rolleyes:

edit: i've had hd locals since i "moved" to new york city back in the summer.

[danryan28]

I will personally wait until Tivo launches the HDTV SA Tivo.

Since I can post links yet, you can see the press release at tivo /cms_static/press_19.html

Then I will be able to through away this piece of garbage hd8300.

I had D* for 7 years, with Tivo for 4 of those, and I left because of high def Locals. I was planning on going back, but now I will just wait for the SA.

Thanks again D* (for nothing useful)

[tivoupgrade]

2007?

Guess he'll miss the season finale of the Sopranos (in HD)...

[maharg18]

From (dated today):
Tivo CES Press Release today (http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_19.html)

Unless I'm missing something, that press release is dated 2005 .

:)

[BeauB]

:eek:

LOL - I think the 1/06 /05 got me, guess realizing that today was the 4th would have helped too...

[jantomas]

What to do to get both HDMI and Component out to work together so that two HDTV units can be fed?

[starbucksfreak]

Folks, there is NO MYSTERY. People are choosing to confuse themselves instead of read the facts. Don't waste your time calling DirecTV, TiVo, or anyone else. The people you talk to are insulated from the facts.


TiVo is developing an HD TiVo for Comcast.
DirecTV/NDS is developing an HD DVR for DirecTV.
and never the twain shall meet.

DirecTV is not getting any more MPEG-2 channels (HBO HD, Showtime HD, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN, ABC HD, NBC HD, CBS HD) and will eventually turn those all off and provide them in MPEG-4 only.

Starting in December 2005, DirecTV started offering local channels in High Definition in MPEG-4 format to its subscribers in the 12 top cities. This requires a massive new dish and a new MPEG-4 receiver which cannot do any PVR functions. It's just a tuner.

The MPEG-4 DirecTV DVR comes out in Summer 2006. It will not be a TiVo.

Anyone buying an HR10-250, the DirecTV TiVo HD receiver (which cannot do MPEG-4) is gambling that DirecTV will offer a buyback/tradein to their new HD MPEG-4 DVR when it becomes available in Summer 2006. A few people who already have no trouble receiving local channels in HD with an ordinary antenna will be satisfied with the TiVo HR10-250 for the time being until DirecTV starts offering MPEG-4 exclusive channels.

I stopped by the DirecTV booth at the 2006 Consumer Electronics Show on Friday, saw the replacement unit for the HR10-250 and was told by one of the many white-clad DirecTV reps that DirecTV would indeed be swapping out the old HR10-250s for the new unit.

[RangersRBack]

emains, i would educate myself a little more before making such a blunt and unnecessary comment. any TIVO is compatible with an HDTV, i have been watching my SD tivo for two years now on my HDTV. i will upgrade soon to an HD tivo which will deliver me even better pictures on certain programing. and unlike some HD cable boxes the HDMI output actually works....

welcome to the forum, read up a little and you will see what's going on.

i have not watched LIVE tv for two years now. and i am loving every moment of it on my HDTV !

I want to make sure I understand. I just bought a 40"LCD HDTV, I have a regular SD Tivo and the picture is terrible. I didn't expect to receive HD TV with a SD Tivo, but I didn't think the picture would be horrible either. How did you get that to work?

[joetoronto]

I want to make sure I understand. I just bought a 40"LCD HDTV, I have a regular SD Tivo and the picture is terrible. I didn't expect to receive HD TV with a SD Tivo, but I didn't think the picture would be horrible either. How did you get that to work?

what type of video cable are you using, RangersRBack?

[RangersRBack]

what type of video cable are you using, RangersRBack?

It looks like we have one set of cables (two audio and one video) going from one Tivo output to the TV, and another set with two audio and an S-Video going to the other TV input.

Thanks for your help!

[kjmcdonald]

Any word from Tivo about the SA HD Tivo at CES?

Any word from Tivo about *anything* at CES?

-Kyle

[maharg18]

Any word from Tivo about the SA HD Tivo at CES?

Any word from Tivo about *anything* at CES?

-Kyle

Apparently you haven't been reading the forums here for the past few days!

Here's one of a few dozen threads about it:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=280411

[joetoronto]

It looks like we have one set of cables (two audio and one video) going from one Tivo output to the TV, and another set with two audio and an S-Video going to the other TV input.

Thanks for your help!

i'm wondering if your using component cables, that are meant for hd, going into the tv from the tivo. if so, that could be the problem.

i would go with s-video for both outputs from the tivo to the tv.

other than that, make sure you have the tv set for sd, in other words, if your tv is set for hd, than the contrast and brightness would be way too high for sd and you'll end up with a crappy picture.

i hope you understand what i'm trying to say, i'm terrible at explaining things. ;)

[kjmcdonald]

Apparently you haven't been reading the forums here for the past few days!

Here's one of a few dozen threads about it:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=280411

Thanks!

Nope. I came here to look it up and I've read this thread many times beofre so I came directly to it figuring this would be where the info was. Must be too soon to update the initial post. I'm sure they'll get to it.

-Kyle

[feldon23]

I have updated the FAQ to include a "stub" about the Series 3 TiVo, which I intend to write a companion FAQ for.
All of the "What is HDTV?" stuff has been moved into its own post (right after the DirecTV post).
Mentioned and pictured the Ka/Ku dish
More info about the MPEG-4 channels
Deleted Comcast section until there is more info (I'm assuming it's not just a branded version of the Series 3?), etc.

And to think I thought I'd be able to say "my work is done here" after the NDS-designed DirecTV HD DVR came out. ;)

[Budget_HT]

feldon23,

Your contributions to this forum are much appreciated. Your connection diagrams from a few years ago have traveled many thousands of miles and guided many installations.

Once again, thanks very much for your generous sharing of your knowledge and valuable time.

[feldon23]

One of the most important things about the new KaKu dish is that OTA signals cannot be diplexed through the satellite feeds. I've been advising people not to inject OTA into the satellite lines for a long time. Anyone who followed that advice and ran a separate line for Over-the-Air signals is breathing a sigh of relief right now.

[ronpp]

One of the most important things about the new KaKu dish is that OTA signals cannot be diplexed through the satellite feeds. I've been advising people not to inject OTA into the satellite lines for a long time. Anyone who followed that advice and ran a separate line for Over-the-Air signals is breathing a sigh of relief right now.

That KaKu dish is not the norm install nowadays is it? For a customer upgrading to HD in one of the markets without D* local HD feeds and with a phase two, they normally would get a phase III correct? Thx. D* is coming wednesday to "install" my new hr10-250 and I am hanging a channelmaster 4228 with a diplexer for OTA locals.

[feldon23]

They're going to be putting new (and eventually all) HD channels over the KaKu dish. Try to insist on it.

[Mark Lopez]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but this is a pretty long thread. :)

If one was to get the new AT9 dish but was still using 2 HD Tivos and an SD Tivo (via a Zinwell 4x8 multi-switch) would everything still work using that same multi-switch? And will that same 4x8 multi-switch work when an MPEG-4 receiver is added at some point? OTA is already a separate run and is not an issue.

[Anubys]

Sorry if this has already been asked, but this is a pretty long thread. :)

If one was to get the new AT9 dish but was still using 2 HD Tivos and an SD Tivo (via a Zinwell 4x8 multi-switch) would everything still work using that same multi-switch? And will that same 4x8 multi-switch work when an MPEG-4 receiver is added at some point? OTA is already a separate run and is not an issue.

someone just asked that question in another forum and the answer they got was that your gear will operate fine and you'll be ready for the mpeg-4 as well...someone even said that the new dish gets better reception (signal strength)...

[Mark Lopez]

someone just asked that question in another forum and the answer they got was that your gear will operate fine and you'll be ready for the mpeg-4 as well...someone even said that the new dish gets better reception (signal strength)...

Great. Now one more question. If one was to get the new dish, where would they get the initial aiming info from if they didn't have a new receiver? I would assume it would have different settings than the Phase III dish.

[feldon23]

The aiming info provided by DirecTV receivers is never as accurate as the aiming info available from other sources. For Phase III and before, the best aiming info is at RCA.com.

If you have 30 minutes to kill, watch the installation video that DirecTV installers need to watch to install the AT9 dish. It's about 10 times as hard to install as the Phase III dish was. Installing the AT9 dish requires a portable level indicator. It really doesn't bode well to have a MUCH more complicated dish at the same time as we keep hearing reports that all the good installers are leaving the business because of shrinking profit margins and bad practices by the satellite companies.

[Mark Lopez]

If you have 30 minutes to kill, watch the installation video that DirecTV installers need to watch to install the AT9 dish. It's about 10 times as hard to install as the Phase III dish was.

I have watched the videos and IMO I think it's actually easier (provided you have a meter) than the phase III. The new dish has the fine adjustment screws which IMO are a lot easier to use then the 'hope it doesn't move when you tighten the bolts' of previous dishes. My satellite Internet (Ka) dish has them and it made alignment a snap.

But in any case, that still leaves finding the intial settings when you don't have a newer receiver.

[A J Ricaud]

And will that same 4x8 multi-switch work when an MPEG-4 receiver is added at some point?

I don't think you can receive MPEG-4 programming with a 4X8 multiswitch. You will need a multiswitch designed for that purpose. The new will receiver would receive MPEG-2 programming though, from descriptions of the forthcoming receivers.

[feldon23]

It's not the MPEG-4. It's the frequencies. Before the ultradish, DirecTV used about 1.5GHz worth of signal. Now it's closer to 2.5GHz.

[JBarrie]

i'm wondering if your using component cables, that are meant for hd, going into the tv from the tivo. if so, that could be the problem.

i would go with s-video for both outputs from the tivo to the tv.

other than that, make sure you have the tv set for sd, in other words, if your tv is set for hd, than the contrast and brightness would be way too high for sd and you'll end up with a crappy picture.

i hope you understand what i'm trying to say, i'm terrible at explaining things. ;)

RangersRBack: I have a little experience with the problem you described originally -- poor quality HDTV rendition of TiVo.

What I observed was that std definition programming through my cable box looked bearable. Reducing the sharpness level on the plasma TV helped a lot. BUT, the same program from the same channel through the TiVo was a dismal gritty grainy quality. I use S-video cable from the TiVo to the TV, and the coax came from the wall to the TiVo. I have already observed that the S-video makes a significant improvement over coax, or video+stereo RCA connections. However, replaying a std definition recording form the TiVo was a depressing experience.

I recently dedicated my Motorola STB to the TiVo, using the IR control feature of TiVo. (My Cable Card in the TV gives me the best quality picture of all for HD, direct from the coax.) I use an S-video cable from the Motorola STB as input to the TiVo. That's working brilliantly. The std definition picture quality improved immediately.

Something you may want to consider. My TiVo140 now records the HD channels for the major networks. THAT quality is excellent -- but of course, it's still not full HD, and you lose all the 5.1 sound to become stereo only. I had expected a little improvement. What I got was a significant improvement! It makes my TiVo watchable, again.

Another wrinkle for you, is that my TV enforces copy protection on digital material. Also, my Sony HD DVR is fanatical about copy protection. PatMedia's cable head-end chooses to apply copy protection on its "plus" channel programming (they waive this for their own low-capacity Motorola HD PVR's of course). As a result, my TiVo has now become a very acceptable solution for time-shifting of such channels as ESPN-HD, THT-HD, INHD, HDMovies, etc. For me, that's a -major- step forward.

A Question for This Thread: concerning the very low sound-level problem...
Background... I use stereo audio cable for the sound from the Motorola STB to the Series 2 TiVo, and from the TiVo to the plasma TV. From the TV, I have a fiber-optic link to the AV receiver.
I noticed the discussion earlier in this thread about sound loss. Yes, that's exactly what I've got. A program coming from the cable that needs 40-45 units on the amplifier requires that I set the amplifier in the 65-70 range.
I noticed an earlier explanation about the Dolby 5.1 conversion losing the center channel sound. That seems reasonable to me, and would seem to be occurring in my STB.
The question is... Is there a way for the TiVo to pick up and put out a full strength stereo sound signal? (Perhaps by S-video plus coax coming from the STB?) The quality of the sound is still good, but I'm occasionally forgetful when I change sources, and then I'm nervous about cracking the foundation of my house.
Any suggestions?

[feldon23]

What does this question have to do with the topic at hand?

You aren't watching DirecTV (the only TiVo product available that handles HD) and you're barely watching High Def since you mention all kinds of methods of downrezzing and watching HD material through SD pathways.

[JBarrie]

What does this question have to do with the topic at hand?

You aren't watching DirecTV (the only TiVo product available that handles HD) and you're barely watching High Def since you mention all kinds of methods of downrezzing and watching HD material through SD pathways.
You, yourself, are "barely watching" the thread you claim to know a little about. See the continuing exchange and trace the quotes. You'll find this discussion involves...
1/9/06 joetoronto
1/9/06 RangersRBack
1/10/06 joetoronto
Since forums are effective when people who have useful insight help to accelerate the experience of others, you might be better advised to either be careful, or keep your destructive opinions to yourself. You serve this forum with little benefit, despite the volume of contributions you've submitted in the last several years, if you assist by intimidation. Thank you for your help in your last contribution.

[feldon23]

If you have a question about a TiVo that records High Definition programming, you're welcome and encouraged to post in this forum.

If you have a question about using a TiVo with a box from your cable company, check out the appropriate TiVo forum. I'm not telling you anything any of the moderators and administrators of this forum won't tell you.

[jaspers95]

I have an HR10-250 DVR and a 42" Samsung Plasma. I'm noticing that the picture on some HD channels is coming in grainy or pixilated. ESPN 72 & 73 usually come in perfect, but on the local channels(80, 82,86, 88) I notice the poor picture, and it's really bad with darker images.

I'm using the HDMI connection and I've tried switching the resolution between 720p and 1080i. I tried upgrading the hdmi cables, but that didn't help. I've also tried the component connection and that didn't help. Directv also sent me a replacement HR10-250, but I had the same problem. I'm not sure what to try next. :(

Anyone have any suggestions? Could it be my TV? The connection from TV to receiver? or the HR10-250 receiver? Would a software upgrade for the HR10-250 help??? Please help?

Thanks!

[feldon23]

What city/market are you receiving locals in? Which callsigns are they? (KTRK is ABC-13 in Houston)

[jaspers95]

I'm in New York Market: 80 CBSE, 82 NBCE, 86 ABCE, 88 FOXE.
Signal strength is great on all 3 satellites.

[Mark Lopez]

I don't think you can receive MPEG-4 programming with a 4X8 multiswitch. You will need a multiswitch designed for that purpose. The new will receiver would receive MPEG-2 programming though, from descriptions of the forthcoming receivers.

Ok, so where does one find one of these new MPEG-4 compatible multi-switches. I looked around and did not see any that specifically say they are for the AT9 dish. Or don't they expect anyone to use more than the 4 outputs on the dish?

[A J Ricaud]

Ok, so where does one find one of these new MPEG-4 compatible multi-switches. I looked around and did not see any that specifically say they are for the AT9 dish. Or don't they expect anyone to use more than the 4 outputs on the dish?

Take a look here:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=Multiswitches&PROD=WB68

[feldon23]

Beat me to it! :)

All current 4xwhatever multiswitches cutoff frequencies 750Hz and below for diplexing broadcast (OTA) TV. 250Hz~750Hz is now meaningful satellite signal and so must be passed through. Also there is this Flexport stuff which I still need to read about. :)

It's going to get hard to know where to draw the line on what info is provided here? If I create a FAQ for the H20 DirecTV non-TiVo HD DVR, I know it will get deleted/closed by forum management and they would probably frown on me posting a link to it.

[Mark Lopez]

Take a look here:

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=Multiswitches&PROD=WB68

I did look at that one, but didn't understand how it's supposed to connect to the AT9 dish. In the dish install video, it shows only 4 outpus from the dish (and 2 of the LNBs are 'jumpered' over to the built in multi-switch). So, how are you supposed to use this one? Use those 4 outputs and connect the 2 'jumpered' LNBs to it?

[maharg18]

Take the 4 outputs from the built-in multiswitch and run them to the WB68 switch. The 2 jumpered connections go directly into the built-in multiswitch as normal.

[feldon23]

The 4 wires out of the AT9 dish simply have more MHz of signal on each wire. 250MHz -> 2150MHz instead of the old 750MHz -> 1450MHz.

[Mark Lopez]

So the other 2 inputs of the 6x8 just remain unused?

[A J Ricaud]

Yup. Feldon, I believe, is reading up on the 2 additional "flex ports" and their application.

[maharg18]

The flexports are for the 72.5 and 95 satellites, used for some locals and ethnic programming, respectively.

[jn8199]

After reviewing most of the pages of this thread, I am having problems trying to get a straight answer (partially because of my ignorance). Please help:

I am a huge Tivo fan. I have 4 networked together. I received a DTV TIVO a year or so ago and it was not compatible with my home network, so I keep my standalone Tivos. I still have DTV though.

I have been upgrading TVs in my house to HDTVs and have the HDTV programming from DTV. But what can I do about my Tivos?

The HD10-250 will not network, correct? That won't work for me.

The new Series 3 HD Tivo standalone announced at CES will only apply to cable customers, correct?

What can I do? Is there a way to Tivo most programming but be able to view programming in HD without 2 feeds? How is this done?

Is there a way to hack the DTV HD-10-250 so that it can network?

Is there a standalone HD Tivo that can be used with Direct TV coming out? What's taking so long? Shouldn't this be pretty straight-forward?

I am a huge Tivo fan, but as a stockholder, I have a problem with this. If forced to choose between putting my HDTVs on DirecTV HD receivers with a DVR (NOT TIVO) and switching to cable, I will definately stay with DirecTV. My cable company sucks and I will never go back to them.

I would think that I am the ideal customer and there are probably more people out there like me rather than cable types, what is Tivo doing to address my concerns?

Can anyone help?

[slocko]

the new standalone tivos i think will do OTA plus work with any cable provider that provides cablecard. i'm not 100 percent sure about the OTA, but it will definitely work with any cable provider.

the directivos are all hackable. you won't find the info here, but look around. you might even be able to send the units somewhere for them to do it for you.

the only problem with the directivos is that they won't receive any new hd channels that might go up on the new satellites. but if you are happy with the current offerings and whatever ota you receive, then you should be able to get many years service out of them.

After reviewing most of the pages of this thread, I am having problems trying to get a straight answer (partially because of my ignorance). Please help:

I am a huge Tivo fan. I have 4 networked together. I received a DTV TIVO a year or so ago and it was not compatible with my home network, so I keep my standalone Tivos. I still have DTV though.

I have been upgrading TVs in my house to HDTVs and have the HDTV programming from DTV. But what can I do about my Tivos?

The HD10-250 will not network, correct? That won't work for me.

The new Series 3 HD Tivo standalone announced at CES will only apply to cable customers, correct?

What can I do? Is there a way to Tivo most programming but be able to view programming in HD without 2 feeds? How is this done?

Is there a way to hack the DTV HD-10-250 so that it can network?

Is there a standalone HD Tivo that can be used with Direct TV coming out? What's taking so long? Shouldn't this be pretty straight-forward?

I am a huge Tivo fan, but as a stockholder, I have a problem with this. If forced to choose between putting my HDTVs on DirecTV HD receivers with a DVR (NOT TIVO) and switching to cable, I will definately stay with DirecTV. My cable company sucks and I will never go back to them.

I would think that I am the ideal customer and there are probably more people out there like me rather than cable types, what is Tivo doing to address my concerns?

Can anyone help?

[jn8199]

When you say OTA, I assume that means regular antenae and not sattellite, right? That might allow me to get broadcast channels Tivo'd on the series 3 receiver, but not HBO, Showtime, ESPN HD, Discovery HD, etc.

The hacking materiels of the DTV Tivos that I have found suggest that the inability to network is hardware driven, and not software driven. Is this correct?

Any idea why this is so difficult? Is it just a pissing match between Tivo and DTV?

The other issue that I had was that the home control port on the H-10 that i do have was not operational so I had to use IR, which has interference in my house. DTV said that it would be corrected via Over the Air Programming, any ideas if this was corrected?

Thank you for your comments, but I am still no better off. Is there a DTV compatible HDTV Tivo DVR coming to market? Will there ever be?

[feldon23]

So the other 2 inputs of the 6x8 just remain unused?
This larger photo reveals the answer:
http://www.satellitemart.com/xcarts/image.php?productid=16352

The flexports are for the 72.5 and 95 satellites, used for some locals and ethnic programming, respectively.

[cheer]

the new standalone tivos i think will do OTA plus work with any cable provider that provides cablecard. i'm not 100 percent sure about the OTA, but it will definitely work with any cable provider.
The Series 3 Tivo will do over-the-air and cable (via CableCard).
the directivos are all hackable. you won't find the info here, but look around. you might even be able to send the units somewhere for them to do it for you.
It depends what you mean by "network." If you mean MRV, where you can see other Tivos in the Now Showing list and watch recordings across the network, then no, the HR10-250 cannot do that.

[cheer]

The hacking materiels of the DTV Tivos that I have found suggest that the inability to network is hardware driven, and not software driven. Is this correct?

Any idea why this is so difficult? Is it just a pissing match between Tivo and DTV?
Again, depends what you mean by network. The HR10-250 can be hacked to be networkable, but it cannot do MRV (Multi Room Viewing -- being able to transfer shows between Tivos so you can watch in any room). This is a software limitation; the HR10-250 is running older code (3.1.5f).

No one is really sure why the HR10-250 hasn't gotten a software update like the SD DTivos have, though everyone has a theory. :)

[lflorack]

Quote:
The Series 3 Tivo will do over-the-air and cable (via CableCard).

Probably a stupid question but I'm a DTV user with two SA Series2 Tivos. I've recently upgraded to HD equipment and would, when they arrive, buy at least one of the Series 3 Tivos so I can record HD. I'm making the assumption that I'll be able do that using the DTV H10 Reciever as my source?

I know I could buy one of the DTV HD DVR's but I want to stick with Tivo if possible.

[maharg18]

Quote:
The Series 3 Tivo will do over-the-air and cable (via CableCard).

Probably a stupid question but I'm a DTV user with two SA Series2 Tivos. I've recently upgraded to HD equipment and would, when they arrive, buy at least one of the Series 3 Tivos so I can record HD. I'm making the assumption that I'll be able do that using the DTV H10 Reciever as my source?

I know I could buy one of the DTV HD DVR's but I want to stick with Tivo if possible.


No, as stated it will support OTA and cable recording ONLY. It would just be way too expensive to include an HD encoder that would be able to take the output of a Directv HD receiver.

[stevel]

Bad assumption. The Series 3, as shown at CES anyway, does not support satellite box sources. Cable and OTA only.

[joetoronto]

maybe it's just me but i really think the way of the future is in stand alone HD recorders.

i have a toshiba RD-XS32 HDD DVD recorder, if this thing could record in HD it would be the best thing since sliced bread.

it records from any satellite OR cable provider, camcorders, OTA, game consoles...anything with a signal :D and it burns DVD's.

i have it hooked up to the HR10-250. :)

[feldon23]

maybe it's just me but i really think the way of the future is in stand alone HD recorders.

i have a toshiba RD-XS32 HDD DVD recorder, if this thing could record in HD it would be the best thing since sliced bread.

it records from any satellite OR cable provider, camcorders, OTA, game consoles...anything with a signal :D and it burns DVD's.

i have it hooked up to the HR10-250. :)
Too bad it doesn't record anything in High Definition and there is no High Definition DVD format on the market yet.

A standalone High Definition DVD recorder will probably cost $2,000.

[feldon23]

Probably a stupid question but I'm a DTV user with two SA Series2 Tivos. I've recently upgraded to HD equipment and would, when they arrive, buy at least one of the Series 3 Tivos so I can record HD. I'm making the assumption that I'll be able do that using the DTV H10 Reciever as my source?

I know I could buy one of the DTV HD DVR's but I want to stick with Tivo if possible.
DirecTV severed their contract with TiVo, leaving TiVo no choice but to produce a cable TiVo.

TiVo is no longer authorized to introduce any new integrated DirecTV products and they have never been authorized to produce integrated Dish Network products. Anyway, Dish Network uses leased equipment and DirecTV is going to leased equipment in March. They want you to rent their substandard equipment instead of buying something better. Cable has been a 'rent their box' service forever but in a rare display of the Government actually having a clue, they forced the cable cos to introduce a universal CableCARD format which TiVo can create products for.

I loved DirecTV and told everyone I could about it. But with the piss poor picture quality on some popular channels (Sci-Fi, Discovery HD, to name a few), half-implemented HD solution (local-into-local doesn't have Fox, WB/UPN, or other HD locals), and dismissal of TiVo, they have eliminated all their advantages over cable for me, and I can get cable internet, phone, AND cable TV for $99/month. I'm currently paying $170 a month for these services from different companies.

DirecTV vs. Cable: When you can't tell the difference, why pay the difference?

[joetoronto]

Too bad it doesn't record anything in High Definition and there is no High Definition DVD format on the market yet.

A standalone High Definition DVD recorder will probably cost $2,000.

not yet, that's why i said "the way of the future", although were almost there. (http://www.cnet.com/Toshiba_HD_DVD_recorder/4660-10602_1-5619884.html)

[cancun64]

This is the response I recieved about the MPEG-4 issue from DTV in July 2005. It looks like they give a reciever replacement.

Thanks for asking about HD equipment. I understand your concern about how our Advanced Video Compression HD technology (MPEG-4 AVC) will affect any MPEG-2 equipment you may have. Let me reassure you that most customers will be able to use their MPEG-2 equipment for quite some time.

At this time our current HD programming will continue to be broadcast using the MPEG-2 standard, MPEG-4 technology will be used only to provide local HD programming in select cities. (Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Detroit, Houston, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Tampa and Washington, D.C. are expected to launch this year, with more to be added throughout the next year.)

Once local HD programming launches in your city, you will be eligible for an MPEG-4-compatible receiver replacement. If you want to replace your HD DVR, you may need to wait a bit longer. Our new MPEG-4-compatible DIRECTV HD DVR receiver is expected to be available in early 2006.

Thanks again for writing. More details will be available as we get closer to launching the local HD service in your area, so watch your local TV, radio or mailbox for upcoming announcements or visit DIRECTVfor the latest news.

Sincerely,

Karlo
DIRECTV Customer Service

[pvrsRgood]

Re-posted from another thread...

... we know that the HDTV DirecTivo uses a newer-generation BCM7037 chip. Unfortunately, Broadcom doesn't provide documentation on the BCM7037.

Broadcom does provide information on the BCM7035 and BCM7038...


Does anyone have a datasheet (not product brief) for the BCM7035, BCM7037, or BCM7038?

[mccunry]

I loved DirecTV and told everyone I could about it. But with the piss poor picture quality on some popular channels (Sci-Fi, Discovery HD, to name a few), half-implemented HD solution (local-into-local doesn't have Fox, WB/UPN, or other HD locals), and dismissal of TiVo, they have eliminated all their advantages over cable for me,

I am in the same boat. I have been a loyal DirecTV customer for 9 years. I was a beta user of the original DirecTivo, a user of three Tivos, an early adopter of HD, and have been a 'premium' subscriber of NCAA Season Pass and NFL Sunday Ticket (since 2000). I have always really liked DirecTV (and loved Tivo). I am now beginning the process of completely cancelling the service.

FACTOR 1:

I have been patiently waiting for HD locals from DirecTV for the last couple of years. I don't even want to begin counting the false promises that have been made regarding HD local (and national) channels over the last couple of years. I am finally scheduled to receive HD locals in April (Seattle area) all the while Comcast has been providing HD locals for at least a year here. Once a cutting edge company, DirecTV has been horribly slow to compete with cable on HD locals.

FACTOR 2:

The NFL SuperFan. This year DirecTV felt they were justified in charging an additional $99 to NFL Sunday Ticket subscribers to watch games in HD ($49 for existing subscribers). What once was a standard service to NFL Sunday Ticket subscribers was inexplicably upcharged. Horrible way to nickel and dime loyal customers. To make matters worse, they claimed that the $99 premium was justified because the customer was receiving both HD and interactive features. At the time, DirecTV did not sell a receiver capable of both HD and interactive. I had to bitch, moan, and complain to get that fee waived and was told that it would be a one time waiver. Total crap.

FACTOR 3:

A good friend of mine recently cancelled DirecTV. To help him get rid of his equipment I bought his old HR10-250. I called DirecTV to activate the box and was repeatedly told by multiple levels of management that I would have to commit to a 2 year contract in order to activate the recevier. I found this to be completely unacceptable. I went through multiple levels of mgmt and they wouldn't budge. DirecTV expects me to make a blind commitment to them when they have repeatedly failed to keep commitments to its most loyal customers. This was the straw that broke the camel's back.


Bottom Line: I can call Comcast today, get multiple HD receivers, get HD DVR, get HD locals, require no crazy wiring, and have a long term plan where my beloved Tivo will likely re-emerge into my life. I can do all of this at a price point comparable to DirecTV.

-or-

I can stick with DirecTV, have to undergo an annoying hardware migration from MPEG2 to MPEG4, have no defininitve HD strategy, have no definitive HD DVR, require another series of re-wiring, and lose Tivo.


I have sold both of my HD receivers on EBay, am currently 'exporting' the rest of my Tivo saved programs to my computer's video capture card, and will soon be decommisioning my SD Tivos. Upon completion, I will get cable hooked up (currently using them for cable internet so it should be quick and easy) and will then cancel. I predict that DirecTV customer retention will go out of their way to try and keep me which is absolutely laughable because their horrible service greatly hastened my departure.

What a disappointment.

[Marty M]

"DirecTV vs. Cable: When you can't tell the difference, why pay the difference?"

The fact that Feldon23, who wrote the FAQ for this site, is now asking if there is difference between DirecTV and cable, is an early indicator of the response that DirecTV will receive for abandoning their tens of thousands of TiVo customers. I will be moving in the next six months, and also agree with Mccunry that I can get similar results with cable and avoid the hassle of having to set up an antenna and dish after I move.

However, I have several questions and haven't been able to easily/quickly obtain answers.

I GREATLY appreciate any responses to these questions:

(1) The new non-HD DirecTV DVR. It should be a precedent for the future, and will tell us what type of software will be included in the HD version. The DirecTV web site says that you can select a show and it will record it even if the time or day changes. So it is more than a simple recorder with a clock.

But how good is the software compared to the functionality of TiVO?

Does it allow you to prioritize the shows, in terms of what is recorded first in the event of a time conflict?

Does it have a To Do list that shows you what it did or didn't record in the past, and what will be recorded in the future?

Does it download the schedule so that you can schedule two weeks in advance like TiVo?

(2) This thread reports that DirecTV has terminated its contract with TiVo. At the present time those of us with TiVo pay for that service through DirecTV. How long will that continue, and how long will TiVo continue to provide programming data through DirecTV?

When will these services terminate -- not only for HD TiVo but for all DirecTV customers with TiVo?

I also don't understand how DirecTV could have TERMINATED the contract, yet it is still selling the same Hughes HD DirecTV TiVo model that many of purchased in the last two years. DirecTV is still selling a TiVo model, and is thus still selling the service. That doesn't sound like a termination to me.

(3) What is DirecTV offering their current base of non-HD customers who own TiVo units?

(4) I assume we can't set our Hughes HD DirecTV TiVo to download the programming info from TiVo and pay TiVo for that service instead? And even if we could, it is only a matter of time before our current MPEG signal for HD is cut off by DirecTV?

(5) Mccunry mentioned HD DVRs for comcast. Who makes those? Does Comcase provide such units? I assume they are little more than DVRs with a clock that have to be set like an old VCR?

[feldon23]

(1) The new non-HD DirecTV DVR. It should be a precedent for the future, and will tell us what type of software will be included in the HD version. The DirecTV web site says that you can select a show and it will record it even if the time or day changes. So it is more than a simple recorder with a clock.

But how good is the software compared to the functionality of TiVO?
The DirecTV R10 (non-TiVo DVR) has been out for nearly 6 months and reviews have been posted at the DirecTV with TiVo forum here at TiVoCommunity.com as well as many other forums. I'd check them out.

(2) This thread reports that DirecTV has terminated its contract with TiVo. At the present time those of us with TiVo pay for that service through DirecTV. How long will that continue, and how long will TiVo continue to provide programming data through DirecTV?
DirecTV is still letting UltimateTV DVRs connect and view DirecTV channels (4?) years after they were discontinued. You can still use 10 year old DirecTV receivers with the service. It doesn't cost anything for DirecTV to continue to keep the TiVo-based DVRs going. It's certainly less expensive than swapping out 1 million of them for the DirecTV models at a cost of $300 per. Even Rupert Murdoch who wants to "keep it all in the family" would have a hard time justifying to the stockholders a $300 million swapout that generates only negative responses and would probably piss off a lot of vocal customers.

When will these services terminate -- not only for HD TiVo but for all DirecTV customers with TiVo?
The HD TiVo has a different problem. It does not record or play back MPEG-4 programming. The unit cannot even see the Ka band satellites that DirecTV is presently offering HD locals on. When DirecTV adds and/or moves HD programming to MPEG-4 format, the DirecTV HD TiVo will become less and less useful.

I also don't understand how DirecTV could have TERMINATED the contract, yet it is still selling the same Hughes HD DirecTV TiVo model that many of purchased in the last two years. DirecTV is still selling a TiVo model, and is thus still selling the service. That doesn't sound like a termination to me.
They have ceased any further development of products and TiVo is not allowed to create any new hardware that works with DirecTV. DirecTV isn't going to sit around for 6 months without an HD DVR while the R20 (the non-TiVo replacement for the HR10-250) is being completed and tested. So they are continuing to sell the DirecTV HD TiVo (albiet with much less advertising compared to 2005) until the non-TiVo R20 is ready.

(3) What is DirecTV offering their current base of non-HD customers who own TiVo units?
Since October 2005 they've been offering them the R10.

(4) I assume we can't set our Hughes HD DirecTV TiVo to download the programming info from TiVo and pay TiVo for that service instead?
If DirecTV wants to stop supporting TiVo, all they have to do is send a signal rendering every TiVo-based DirecTV receiver invalid. Then there ain't nothing you'd be able to do to get it to work. The receiver itself would no longer be authorized to get DirecTV programming.

In 2003 (or was it 2004?), DirecTV pushed out a significant upgrade to the DirecTV with TiVo software which speeds up the interface, allows all programming and software updates to happen through the satellite with no phone call required, etc.
(5) Mccunry mentioned HD DVRs for comcast. Who makes those? Does Comcase provide such units? I assume they are little more than DVRs with a clock that have to be set like an old VCR?
I recommend you do some Google searches. Most cable companies have been making non-TiVo DVRs available for about 3 years now. Dish Network makes them available to their customers too. They're designed by a plethora of companies including Motorola and Scientific Atlanta.

None of these devices are a "VCR with a hard drive". They can all pause live TV, get Season Passes, etc. Some of them even have Wishlists. All the major DVR players out there are producing boxes that provide at least 50-75% TiVo functionality and most people (non TiVo devotees) can't tell the difference.

I'm not saying they're great. They have some major user interface nightmares (Especially the Motorola boxes, which obfuscate the difference between recorded and to-be-recorded shows in a single unfilterable list -- talk about maddening!!) and they also can crash, taking all your shows down (the Dish Network boxes tend to do this without warning).

Charter Cable has an exclusive contract with a company called Moxi which produces a very advanced DVR which actually looks a lot BETTER and certainly sexier than the TiVo. Several people quit TiVo and joined Moxi, and it shows. The interface is much more advanced, quicker, and cooler. But there are some idiosyncracies that might drive you crazy. If you are in an area with Charter Cable, the Moxi DVR, which costs a whole lot less up front and per month than an HD TiVo, might be a good option. I used one for a week when I was in Michigan, and I would find myself quite satisfied with one given the price ($7/mo, no upfront).

This fall, TiVo intends to release the TiVo Series III which will be compatible with all cable systems as per federal law requiring cable companies to provide customers with a universal CableCard if they so request it. I'm working on a FAQ for it -- for now, I've put a stub with some of the details at the beginning of this thread.

[slinden]

What is Directv going to do for me after the encouraged me to spend $1,000 for an HD Tivo box and now will make it imcompatable with all new HD programming. Are they going to replace it with a new box for me or are they going to just make me pay another $1,000 for a new box. This is no way to treat a customer, let alone one who has been with them since 1995.

[tivoupgrade]

What is Directv going to do for me after the encouraged me to spend $1,000 for an HD Tivo box and now will make it imcompatable with all new HD programming. Are they going to replace it with a new box for me or are they going to just make me pay another $1,000 for a new box. This is no way to treat a customer, let alone one who has been with them since 1995.


I purchased mine for that much almost two years ago. As far as I know DirecTV has no way to make the HR10-250 into anything that it wasn't when it was first released.

What DirecTV IS doing is bringing new channels online using the MPEG4 standard. It should be obvious (especially if you've been reading this thread) that 2+ year old hardware designed to recieve MPEG2 broadcasts, is not going to work with newer MPEG4 broadcasts.

If you want to receive those MPEG4 broadcasts, whenever they become available, you'd need to update your hardware, whenever it becomes available.

I'm typically not in a position of defending vendors like DirecTV, especially if they are truly encouraging you to make an uneducated decision when making a purchase of a unit, however there is a difference between being actively misled, and just not realizing when you made the decision.

My approach when looking at a purchase such as this (btw, the HR10-250 is no longer $1000 - you can get them for < $500) is to look at it like any technology purchase and consider its "useful life" relative to the cost.

When you purchase a PC, is there an expectation that you'll be able to use it forever and that the vendor is going to supply free upgrades to it as the technology changes and evolves? I don't expect my PC from two years ago to run Windows Vista on it very well when it ultimately becomes available.

The analogy might not be 100% accurate there, because most pc's are binary compatible (although 286 PC's can't run code compiled for a 386 and benefit from those enhancements) and in the DirecTV world, we are talking about a shift in encoding standards, but realistically, the MPEG2 standard isn't going away any time soon, which means there is no reason that two years from now, your HR10-250 won't be able to do the same thing it does today.

Lastly, DirecTV, having moved to a leasing model, has in effect, created a bit of a 'technology assurance' to folks by doing so - just like with cell phones, the cost of upgrading and updating is cheaper to the end-user, as long as you stay in the contract with DirecTV.

For those of you who think I'm defending DirecTV here - I'm not - personally, I am skeptical of the direction they are headed - they've essentially dropped TiVo, are moving in a much more proprietary directoin, their support has become terrible, and it seems the cable providers are poised to eclipse them with lots of new functionality (at a price, however).

BUT, having been a customer for 10 years, I know what my responsibilies are when making an acquisition of something like an HR10-250. and I feel very strongly that it is still a very viable product, as long as you are OK to use OTA for local affiliates in HD (if that is important to you) and want to enjoy the benefits of owning an upgradable TiVo vs a proprietary (and non-existent) DVR.

Lou

[feldon23]

What is Directv going to do for me after the encouraged me to spend $1,000 for an HD Tivo box and now will make it imcompatable with all new HD programming.Give you a DirecTV HD DVR R20 when it becomes available this summer.


Lou,

I would be on board with you if DirecTV hadn't treated TiVo with open disdain for the last 2 years.

[mpbishop22]

Any updates on the release date of the series 3... I cant stand my DVR from Cox, and does anyone have any cost information?

[Iwanthd]

Is there any way to determine how much room is left on the hard drive of the HR10-250?

[joetoronto]

Is there any way to determine how much room is left on the hard drive of the HR10-250?


i wish, that would be nice.

[Budget_HT]

Is there any way to determine how much room is left on the hard drive of the HR10-250?
I let the number of suggestions tell me how much more room is available. You do have to pay attention to HD vs. SD recordings because their file sizes vary so much.

Granted, this is a very indirect method, but all we have to work with.

[joetoronto]

I let the number of suggestions tell me how much more room is available. You do have to pay attention to HD vs. SD recordings because their file sizes vary so much.

Granted, this is a very indirect method, but all we have to work with.


could you elaborate please, Budget_HT?

how many pages of suggestions do you have when the drive is getting full?


Iwanthd: i don't know about you but i use my main HR10 for recording pretty much only HD movies. they say it holds 30 hours of HD programming so that works out to roughly 15 movies in HD.

i don't let it get past 12 movies, just in case.

[Budget_HT]

Joe,

If you turn on suggestions, they will fill up the remainder of the hard drive. They are listed at the end of the now playing list. The system will delete suggestions first if space is needed to record more programs that you have specified.

So, you can monitor the quantity of suggestions to get a rough idea of how much usable recording space is left. But you also must consider what programs are already committed to record in the to do list.

Obviously this is not an exact method, but at least it gives you a way to estimate where you stand.

[joetoronto]

Joe,

If you turn on suggestions, they will fill up the remainder of the hard drive. They are listed at the end of the now playing list. The system will delete suggestions first if space is needed to record more programs that you have specified.

So, you can monitor the quantity of suggestions to get a rough idea of how much usable recording space is left. But you also must consider what programs are already committed to record in the to do list.

Obviously this is not an exact method, but at least it gives you a way to estimate where you stand.

i see, i've always kept my suggestions off, thinking i'd be saving space but your right, thanks for the tip, Budget_HT. :up:

[Anubys]

there is considerable debate about this, but some people (me included) think that a full hard drive is one of the things that cause the HD-Tivo to reboot and generally misbehave...so filling-up your hard drive with a ton of shows just to know how much space you have might be a price you're not willing to pay...

just keep that in mind...

[joetoronto]

there is considerable debate about this, but some people (me included) think that a full hard drive is one of the things that cause the HD-Tivo to reboot and generally misbehave...so filling-up your hard drive with a ton of shows just to know how much space you have might be a price you're not willing to pay...

just keep that in mind...


ok, now i'm REALLY confused. :confused:

this is the way i've been thinking all along, i don't let the drive get at, or near, capacity.

[Anubys]

ok, now i'm REALLY confused. :confused:

this is the way i've been thinking all along, i don't let the drive get at, or near, capacity.

sorry to be the source of confusion...you asked if there's a way to know how much drive space is left...the poster that answered you gave you the correct answer (to turn on suggestion and see how much stuff piles up on the drive)...

I just wanted to point out that this "trick" MAY come at a cost since it seems that a full drive has a higher tendency to have problems (another reason is keeping very old recordings)...

I want to make sure that you understand that this is an opinion, not a fact and that some people might disagree with that opinion...

I'm just trying to make sure you have all the information...Once your unit starts rebooting and losing recordings and generally acting up, you tend to be very sensitive to anything that might upset it...if all you want is to know how much drive space you have, it is my opinion that the risk you are taking does not outweigh the benefit...

[joetoronto]

sorry to be the source of confusion...you asked if there's a way to know how much drive space is left...the poster that answered you gave you the correct answer (to turn on suggestion and see how much stuff piles up on the drive)...

I just wanted to point out that this "trick" MAY come at a cost since it seems that a full drive has a higher tendency to have problems (another reason is keeping very old recordings)...

I want to make sure that you understand that this is an opinion, not a fact and that some people might disagree with that opinion...

I'm just trying to make sure you have all the information...Once your unit starts rebooting and losing recordings and generally acting up, you tend to be very sensitive to anything that might upset it...if all you want is to know how much drive space you have, it is my opinion that the risk you are taking does not outweigh the benefit...

i should have been clear, i understood both concepts, one filling the drive with suggestions to determine available space and the other basically staying away from loading up the drive.

the confusion comes from deciding which way to go.

i think i'll play it safe and stick to what's been working so far, no more than approximately 24 hours of HD content.

thanks just the same, Anubys.

[Budget_HT]

Anubys,

I share your concerns for full hard drive issues. So far, I have been lucky in that area with both of my HD TiVo's. I bought one the second month after they were released and the second one last October.

It's too bad that we won't see a new generation of the DirecTV HD DVR with TiVo because I think they could have solved most of the issues that are well known today.

I guess the series 3 SA HD TiVo will benefit from the HR10-250 experience, and/or the Comcast boxes running TiVo software.

[s50e30]

let me know if we should move my post to another thread, but this seems
like the best general info spot for HDTiVo questions. anyway, here are
my question(s) :

1) what's the story on getting a used HR10-250 activated by D* ?

with the current lease situation, I'd rather own the hardware instead of being
tied to them owning it. I've heard from some people that you can run into
trouble getting a new receiver activated by D* and from others that it's largely
a function of the person you get on the phone and or your rap with them and
you can get them activated w/o too much trouble.

so is there a (within reason) sure-fire way to get a used receiver activated ?


2) will the HR10-250 integrate the OTA signal into it's guide and whatnot
even if you're not getting the HD package from D* ?

I'm not really all that interested in the HD content that D* offers currently
as the channel line-up is relatively limited & most of the stuff I'd like to
see in HD should be available OTA to me. so I'm thinking that if it will work,
I'll just let the D* HD package drop off after whatever introductory period
I get from them (tho I guess this might not be an issue if I don't get the
HR10-250 thru D* as they'll have no reason to sweeten the lease price with
all sorts of extras) is over and run with SD content from D* and OTA HD stuff.

so, will the HR10-250 & the OS of the receiver let me work it that way ?


down the road I'll either dump D* and go with (shudder) Comcast when/if
they have a robust TiVo implementation, but for now with the single HD
set I plan to have & the likely programming that I'm interested in watching
in HD being available OTA*, worrying about the MPEG4 HD stream & hardware
to work with it isn't really a priority for me.



Ben


*relative to OTA programming for me area (SE Michigan) I think I should
be in good shape as I'm pretty close to all the broadcast locations, but
I'll have to check that with the various OTA-signal strength-specific pages
and whatnot. if I'm in some sort of dead zone most of the above will be
academic as I want to be able to get my locals OTA....

[Anubys]

1) what's the story on getting a used HR10-250 activated by D* ?

with the current lease situation, I'd rather own the hardware instead of being
tied to them owning it.
so is there a (within reason) sure-fire way to get a used receiver activated ?


2) will the HR10-250 integrate the OTA signal into it's guide and whatnot
even if you're not getting the HD package from D* ?


welcome to the forum!

question 1: I'm not aware of any issue...you call D* and ask for a new access card. They send it to you, and you use it to activate your unit. For ANY dealings with D*, if a CSR won't help, just hang up and call again...but this is a straight forward deal, no CSR will deny you a new card...

question 2: Yes. As long as your antenna picks up the channel, the HD-Tivo will integrate it into the guide...if ABC is channel 7, for example, the guide will show channel 7 (which would be SD OTA) and channel 7-1 (which would be HD OTA)...your local ABC channel might have even more subchannels for weather, local traffic, etc. Those will show as 7-2 and 7-3...so you have no worries there.

[s50e30]

cool, I suspected that I was getting alarmist info on not being able
to get an access card for a used receiver. I'll have to start watching
eBay to see what the going rate is for them. might have to check
with other forums which have been mentioned here as having
classifieds as well, tho I've had pretty good luck with eBay in
general.

I guess the only question now is what sort of retain-me-as-a-
subscriber leverage I'll have with D* to be able to get freebies
if I'm not buying the HD box from them.

then again I'm not all that interested in the HD content they
have anyway - my rationale against getting all worked up about
HD has always been that I don't actively _watch_ many shows on
TV, rather have them running in the background while I do stuff
online or read a magazine or whatever. if I actually start just staring
at the majesty of the HD content I'm going to seriously cut into the
time I waste doing all that other stuff :-) I'm mostly interested in
getting things set up so I can watch the NBA playoffs in HD this year.


If I have an existing 3-LNB oval dish will I need to do anything
special to get the current MPEG2 HD D* content into the house ?
I happen to only have 3 of the 4 lines off the dish active due to
how the wires were stuffed when the initial install was done, but
I can get around that I run another wire if needed.


I wonder what the HR10-250 will do if one doesn't have the
box active with D* at all ? would be neat if it would work as
a basically stand-alone HD DVR, but that seems unlikely as it
wouldn't have a D* guide to integrate the OTA content with.


now I just have to go lurk on avsforums and figure out if my
initial thought that the Sony KDF-E42A10 will work for my
needs is correct....


Ben

[jtb]

Please forgive the somewhat newbie question,to receive sd signal i will need to leave the s-video cable hooked up along with the component cable for HD?

[Iceblade]

Please forgive the somewhat newbie question,to receive sd signal i will need to leave the s-video cable hooked up along with the component cable for HD?


Well, you CAN do that.. and then switch TV inputs based on whether you are watching SD or HD. I used to do that, but then I got tired of that route so I just set the HR10-250 to output either 480p or 1080i and watch only over the HDMI/DVI input on the tv. I just use the up arrow method to toggle between resolutions when viewing SD or HD. I mean, D* compression on most SD channels is so craptastic that upconverting it to 480p or 1080i doesn't really matter a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. YMMV.

Regs,
Jeff

[joetoronto]

Please forgive the somewhat newbie question,to receive sd signal i will need to leave the s-video cable hooked up along with the component cable for HD?


there is a difference, jtb. i think you should go ahead and hookup the s-video cable too and then decide in the future whether you don't mind changing inputs.

[Anubys]

you can also get a remote that does everything for you...the Harmony remotes -- among others -- will do all the switching for you (including switching receivers if you route your audio through one, for example) at the press of a button...

[lflorack]

you can also get a remote that does everything for you...the Harmony remotes -- among others -- will do all the switching for you (including switching receivers if you route your audio through one, for example) at the press of a button...

That's what I do. Universal remotes (I have an MX-500) with macros are great!

[jpeckinp]

there is considerable debate about this, but some people (me included) think that a full hard drive is one of the things that cause the HD-Tivo to reboot and generally misbehave...so filling-up your hard drive with a ton of shows just to know how much space you have might be a price you're not willing to pay...

just keep that in mind...

I never keep shows. After I watch them I would delete them and my HD lasted 7 months and died. So I put my vote that it is the crappy Maxtor Drive that is in the unit. I have had so many Maxtors die in computer systems that I will never buy one again.

One thing I don't understand. Why if these drives are crap do the few companies that sell the replacement drives use the same drive? Wouldn't you think that after knowing that these drives suck that you would want to be better than DTV and use a better drive? :confused:

[tivoupgrade]

I never keep shows. After I watch them I would delete them and my HD lasted 7 months and died. So I put my vote that it is the crappy Maxtor Drive that is in the unit. I have had so many Maxtors die in computer systems that I will never buy one again.

One thing I don't understand. Why if these drives are crap do the few companies that sell the replacement drives use the same drive? Wouldn't you think that after knowing that these drives suck that you would want to be better than DTV and use a better drive? :confused:

Actually, most of the HR10-250 units come with Western Digital drives, not Maxtor drives.

With that said, the 'superiority' of any of these manufacturer's drives: Samsung, Western Digital, Maxtor, Seagate tends to be a religious issue more than anything else. Our experience has been that Samsungs and Seagates have been overall, more reliable than Western Digitals and Maxtors; they've all been good, however and no brand has been fundamentally superior. I do have to say that over time, I've developed a mistrust of the Western Digital drives, but I think the issue we ran into a few years ago with them was a quality control issue that has since been remedied.

You can base your opinions on your own experiences, of course; naturally, we've had the benefit of dealing with these drives, by the thousands, for this particular type of application - so we base ours on our own experiences - we have no gripes with Maxtor drives other than the questionable Marketing practice of claiming a "Quickview" drive to be superior for TiVo-usage than any other drive. The test of time has proven that this is not the case, not that this hasn't been obvious from the start. (note QV drives aren't inferior for TiVo-use, either).

What we have seen, from time to time, are factory WD drives in HR10-250 units show up as bad when we initially test them (even in brand new units) which seems to be more of a quality control issue (perhaps even mishandling by the plant assembling the units) more than anything else.

[CDTV]

Hey, (couldn't find answer in search engine)
I'm ready to hook-up my outside tv & would like to run it off my HD-tivo (inside-unit) as a second outside-tv. What's best way to do this? I've got a component-out available but thought I remembered you can't have 2 outputs that'd work on this thing(I'm using dvi-out on primary tv) -is this right? I'd never use both inside & outside at the same time...any help would be appreciated...

[HiHoStevo]

Can I have both HDMI & Component active at the same time?

I would like to send 720p out over HDMI for HDTV viewing and then when I watch the SD SciFi channel switch to component in on my projector... this will allow the reciever to upconvert the selected 480i output (use 4-way to change from 720p to 480i) through the recievers Faroudja chip with DCDI which I think will provide a "better" SD image than the one the HD-Tivo provides just leaving it set on 720p.............

Thanks

[feldon23]

Unfortunately that is not possible. Nor is it possible to improve the picture "quality" (I use the term laughably) that DirecTV has been shoving down our throats lately.

[HiHoStevo]

Unfortunately that is not possible. Nor is it possible to improve the picture "quality" (I use the term laughably) that DirecTV has been shoving down our throats lately.

Feldon.........

You do not think that setting the output for SD at 480i and running it through a Faroudja to de-interlace it to 480p with it's DCDI process will provide any better image than the HD-Tivo??

Is the problem having both Component and HDMI hooked up at the same time?

Would the Tivo know both were connected if the Component output was not "active" through the receiver?... or is it just having the plugs physically installed the turns off one or the other? :(

[feldon23]

I don't even own any HD equipment. I just write FAQs about it. :) Apparently it's possible to read your way to this knowledge. :)

Actually I'm not sure if Component and HDMI are active at the same time. I shouldn't have sounded so certain.

[HiHoStevo]

Okay thanks..... more experimentation I guess.........

[maharg18]

Once you plug HDMI in, it disables the component output.

[joetoronto]

for what it's worth, it does output compnent and s-video together.

i tried it last weekend.

i don't know if it would output HDMI and s-video together, i refuse to even try the HDMI connection, but i'd guess it would.

[newsposter]

yes i have hdmi going to my TV and S vid going to my dvd burner (2nd hdtivo is on component and S vid because my tv only has one hdmi). Of course you gotta kick down to 480i record a dvd though :) But both will be output at the same time.

I don't even own any HD equipment. I just write FAQs about it. :) Apparently it's possible to read your way to this knowledge. :)
.

imagine what more you could add if you bought some :)

[tall1]

for what it's worth, it does output compnent and s-video together.

i tried it last weekend.

i don't know if it would output HDMI and s-video together, i refuse to even try the HDMI connection, but i'd guess it would.Why? They stopped shipping the HR10 with bad HDMI ("HUGHES HDMI CARD 1034054") cards long ago. I've been using HDMI on both HR10s with no problems. The HDMI cards marked 1035849 have had no problems. Unless you have one of the first batch of HDTivos, HDMI should work just fine.

[joetoronto]

Why? They stopped shipping the HR10 with bad HDMI ("HUGHES HDMI CARD 1034054") cards long ago. I've been using HDMI on both HR10s with no problems. The HDMI cards marked 1035849 have had no problems. Unless you have one of the first batch of HDTivos, HDMI should work just fine.

god knows what i have, tall1, not me.

remember, if anything goes wrong with my directv hardware, i'm screwed.

there's no such thing as a directv warranty when you live in canada.

[noahsd]

I apologize in advance for asking this question which I'm sure has been discussed (although I couldn't find the appropriate thread):

D* just introduced local HD in San Diego yesterday (Yippee). Unfortunately, I just found out that the price for getting this (aside from the $99 upgrade) is to give up TIVO. I have an HR10 and have not had a problem. OTA is not an option where I live, so I've had to put up with SD on most channels. The service rep told me they expect an HD-DVR to be available in mid-summer. My question is: Does anyone know or have a guess whether their DVR will be "TIVO-like"? By this I mean, will it be able to record by title rather than strictly by time and channel. Thanks!

[HiHoStevo]

Once you plug HDMI in, it disables the component output.

Rats..........

I was thinking about buying the JVC 702B receiver. I does HDMI switching and it de-interlaces (Faroudja DCDI chip) all the analog 480i signals and transcodes them out over the HDMI out.

The reason I am wondering about this is that I was thinking the DCDI'd 480i SDTV signal might look better from the Faroudja chip than it does from whatever the HD-Tivo is using to upconvert 480i to 720p when I have 720p selected as my output resolution.

I suppose a work-a-round would be to connect the HDMI and S-video from the Tivo to the reciever and then switch the tivo to 480i whenever watching SD. I presume I would have to make a change in the receiver selection also, but I am not familliar enough with the JVC to know exactly at this point... although I do know it will output the signal over HDMI even though it comes in on S-video...

Also... I have not seen anyone mention whether or not the HD-Tivo output's audio over it's HDMI cable...??

Sorry for the email Tall1, for some reason I was not getting notified that folks had responded to this thread...... go figure!

[Anubys]

I apologize in advance for asking this question which I'm sure has been discussed (although I couldn't find the appropriate thread):

D* just introduced local HD in San Diego yesterday (Yippee). Unfortunately, I just found out that the price for getting this (aside from the $99 upgrade) is to give up TIVO. I have an HR10 and have not had a problem. OTA is not an option where I live, so I've had to put up with SD on most channels. The service rep told me they expect an HD-DVR to be available in mid-summer. My question is: Does anyone know or have a guess whether their DVR will be "TIVO-like"? By this I mean, will it be able to record by title rather than strictly by time and channel. Thanks!

yes, all indications are that it will be "tivo-like"...however, based on experience, I find the promise of a mid-summer rollout to be hard to believe...

heck, I'll be happy if I see it in Summer, 2007!

[newsposter]

yes, all indications are that it will be "tivo-like"...however, based on experience, I find the promise of a mid-summer rollout to be hard to believe...

heck, I'll be happy if I see it in Summer, 2007!

r15 = tivo like? I only know what i read on the forum but I think if it was tivo like you wouldnt hear the old time tivoers complaining :)

[Anubys]

r15 = tivo like? I only know what i read on the forum but I think if it was tivo like you wouldnt hear the old time tivoers complaining :)

I thought he was talking about the H20, something I know we're not supposed to talk about on this forum...

[Rottluver]

I apologize in advance for asking this question which I'm sure has been discussed (although I couldn't find the appropriate thread):

D* just introduced local HD in San Diego yesterday (Yippee). Unfortunately, I just found out that the price for getting this (aside from the $99 upgrade) is to give up TIVO. I have an HR10 and have not had a problem. OTA is not an option where I live, so I've had to put up with SD on most channels. The service rep told me they expect an HD-DVR to be available in mid-summer. My question is: Does anyone know or have a guess whether their DVR will be "TIVO-like"? By this I mean, will it be able to record by title rather than strictly by time and channel. Thanks!
I ran into that dilemma when I moved up here to Seattle last summer. I decided to keep my SD Tivo boxes (I have 3) and wait until my 60" big screen poops out (and then I will buy an HD TV) and wait for DTV to get their stuff working and check out their offerings (and others) in the HD-DVR arena. I don't "need" HD and I don't WANT another antenna to get local HD broadcasts.......besides, I learned a looong time ago to not buy "new" stuff right away so that it gets a chance to get the kinks worked out. I HATE being a guinea pig.

[newsposter]

I thought he was talking about the H20, something I know we're not supposed to talk about on this forum...

well at least we are both unsure :)

I know zip about the H20..if it's tivo like..cool, that means the h20 250 should be wonderful as well...too many boxes to keep up on the lingo here

[noahsd]

well at least we are both unsure :)

I know zip about the H20..if it's tivo like..cool, that means the h20 250 should be wonderful as well...too many boxes to keep up on the lingo here
So can I assume that D* has not disclosed any details or description of their promised HD-DVR?

[newsposter]

it's a hot topic here if you do a search or thumb through the thread titles. Anywhere between summer and early next year is posted on this forum as a release date. As far as details, I wont pretend to know anything other than I guarantee it wont have the familiar tivo interface that the HDtivo and its friends now have.

[Brillian1080p]

Feldon23, I am curious. If you don't own any high definition equipment, how can you be so sure that video processing will not improve picture quality?

I have been playing around with analog CRT projectors and processors by way of home theater PC and outboard processors for about 4 years. I would like to correct your statement.

Standard definition video can be improved to a large degree. The amount of improvement depends on your display quality and processor quality.

I do not have the time at the moment, but I can provide details an examples if there is interest. There are many others who could do the same.

I'm also not interested in arguing or fighting about it, but I wonder how many readers will actually believe your statement.

Anyone interested in a different view on this topic can visit the video processing section of other forums. There you can read posts from quite a few people who actually have the equipment and have made improvements to both standard and high definition video.

Please don't take offense, your just flat out wrong in this instance.

[golf ace]

Hi there
I asked this on a deferent site but thought I would give it a try here. If I have cable and D* can I put the "cable" in the OTA input on an hr10-250. I would like to be able to tivo my hd locals.
thanks

[feldon23]

Hi there
I asked this on a deferent site but thought I would give it a try here. If I have cable and D* can I put the "cable" in the OTA input on an hr10-250. I would like to be able to tivo my hd locals.
thanks
You can wish and want and hope but it's not going to work.

[pjspring]

I hope no one has asked this question before and I've missed it.

I currently own two Series 2 TiVo boxes, both linked into my home network, that I use extensively for playing music, playing photo slideshows, transferring video between TiVos and to the PCs for DVD authoring, etc, etc.

Later this year I plan on upgrading to HDTV and will buy a Series 3 TiVo to complement it.

Does anyone know whether you will be able to transfer video between the Series 3 and Series 2 boxes (and vice versa). I know you will not get HD, but will they be compatible at least?

Thanks.

[mroe]

I am very interested in upgrading to HD Tivo, but would like to know when DTV is going to to start having HD locals on the system with out having to use an additional "air" antenna. Does anyone know when that's going to happen?

[Iceblade]

mroe,

It's based on the particular TV market that you currently reside in. I believe they have rolled out locals to the top 40? markets at this point in time. If you live in the rural backwoods of Arkansas or something, I wouldn't hold my breath. If you live close to a MAJOR metropolitan city, then you most likely will be converted in the next year to two years. Please understand, "HD locals" does not imply ALL of the digital locals that you could possibly pull in with an OTA antenna. It's only the "Big Four" or "Big Five" for now... and sometimes not even that. I believe CBS is still having fits with D* and so many markets aren't even seeing CBS.

Hope that helps.

Regs,
Jeff

[Rottluver]

When I moved up to Seattle from L.A. last summer, D* told me I needed that extra antenna for HD.........don't know if that is still the case or not, haven't looked into it since then. :shrug:

[baatz]

I am very interested in upgrading to HD Tivo, but would like to know when DTV is going to to start having HD locals on the system with out having to use an additional "air" antenna. Does anyone know when that's going to happen?
I too would LOVE to be able to TiVo my HD signals from the D* Mpeg4 local channels... But, as far as I know, UNFORTUNATELY, there are no plans for a TiVo that will handle Mpeg4, such as those signals used by D* for the local HD signals? The TiVo/D* HD10-250 does OTA HD, but not Mpeg4???

The only thing that I have heard up til now is that D* will have a non-TiVo DVR for use with Mpeg4 signals by sometime "soon". Maybe this summer? Yeck...

It's my impression that D* has opted to do their own DVRs and not use TiVo on future receivers? I truly hate to hear that.

I currently receive the Big Four networks from Tampa Florida via D* on the H20-100 receiver. I've kept my SD DirecTiVos but as you probably know, they sadly don't do HD... :( <deep sigh>

[bythecshore]

I have Comcast (CT) cable, no box, with a TiVo series 2. I want to get a wide-screen HD TV which means upgrading the cable and especially TiVo, which is all I watch.

Is TiVo the answer - or the supplied Comcast DVR (is that TiVo)?

I imagine there's a thread somewhere here where this is discussed. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance.

[HiHoStevo]

The DVR's offered by Comcast are NOT Tivo's.

They do function, but are not using Tivo software and many Tivo folks would find them a "bit" primitive. However, as I said they do work.

I believe Comcast is using the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR.

[bythecshore]

You mention that the Comcast DVR is not as good as the TiVo... any particilar features missing, for example, can you watch one (recorded) show while recording another?

What are the other downsides?

[Kunzorama]

Lots of Comcast customers who opt for PVR through Comcast get the Motorola 6412. It's not Tivo, but it is HD and does performs the basics. Because of Comcast's investment relationship with Tivo, there's a good chance that Comcast will actually be offering Tivo service through the boxes they supply sometime in the not too distant future. (It's conceivable that they could even push a software upgrade out to existing STBs, but that seems unlikely to me.)

There a few good threads on this topic at avsforum (com), including one titled "Official Comcast 6412 w/ iGuide Discussion". I'd suggest you visit them and take a look. (I can't post a URL yet.)



I have Comcast (CT) cable, no box, with a TiVo series 2. I want to get a wide-screen HD TV which means upgrading the cable and especially TiVo, which is all I watch.

Is TiVo the answer - or the supplied Comcast DVR (is that TiVo)?

I imagine there's a thread somewhere here where this is discussed. Can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance.

[HiHoStevo]

You mention that the Comcast DVR is not as good as the TiVo... any particilar features missing, for example, can you watch one (recorded) show while recording another?

What are the other downsides?

Most DVR's will do 85 - 90% of what most people would want. They time shift, they pause, they rewind, you can program which shows you want to record.

The two giants in the DVR world are Tivo and ReplayTV. Tivo rose to pre-eminence due to its tie-in with DirecTV. There are vociferous advocates for both platforms and I do not wish to start that discussion... I currently own and have owned both Replay and Tivo units and love them both. I mostly use Tivo now because I wanted HD and Replay never came out with an HD unit to my knowledge. I also appreciate having the STB and DVR in the same box. I have always felt the quality of the recording is better this way as there are fewer analog to digital conversions taking place.

Now to actually answer your question... :D

What Replay and Tivo do that most of the other DVR's do not do is software related.... one in prioritizing which shows are more important to record and secondly in that Replay and Tivo are what is called "show-based" recording devices where most other DVR's are simply digital versions of a VCR.... you tell it what channel you want at what time and that is what gets recorded... it may seem to be show-based because you are clicking on the name of a show to record, but under the makeup the recorder is simply making a notation to record a specific channel from time A to time B.

Show based recordings can follow the show if it is moved or pre-empted... (most of the time) nothing is fool-proof! :eek:

[cheer]

Because of Comcast's investment relationship with Tivo, there's a good chance that Comcast will actually be offering Tivo service through the boxes they supply sometime in the not too distant future. (It's conceivable that they could even push a software upgrade out to existing STBs, but that seems unlikely to me.)
In a conference call with investors, that's exactly what Tivo said they'd be doing (pushing a software upgrade out to existing STBs).

--chris

[Delegator]

You mention that the Comcast DVR is not as good as the TiVo... any particilar features missing, for example, can you watch one (recorded) show while recording another?

What are the other downsides?

TiVo's advantage is the UI and functionality. Some of the things I have seen with my Scientific Atlanta (Adelphia) box, or a friend's Motorola (Comcast) box, include:

Scientific Atlanta box from Adelphia:
- only keeps 7 days of program guide, versus 14 for TiVo
- only lets you search for shows on a particular day, and only by the first letter of the show name, as opposed to the first n letters (however many you want to put in) for TiVo
- allows broad theme searches, with no sub-themes, no actor searches, etc
- if you start watching a show that is being recorded, and you come in during the middle of the show, you have to rewind to the beginning. There is no option to start playing a currently-being-recorded show from the beginning
- if you are watching a show that is currently being recorded, the DVR will skip you back to the beginning when the show ends in real time. So, if you were (for example) halfway through, you'll have to fast-forward to that point to pick up where you left off
- is very unreliable when you try to record multiple episodes of a show. The only options are "all episodes on this channel in this time slot" and "all episodes on this channel in any time slot". The idea of "this time slot" seems to not work at all ( sometimes it picks up the show in other time slots, and sometimes a 5-minute difference means you will miss a showing)
- has no concept of show IDs, first run versus repeats, etc.
- has no ability to recommend shows based on viewing habits
- shows only 5-6 channels at a time in the program guide

Motorola box from Comcast:
- Will turn itself on in order to record. That's great, except that, when it does this, it will turn itself off when the recording is completed. So, if the DVR had turned itself on to record, and you decide to watch something else on the other tuner, you will randomly have the DVR turn itself off when the show you are recording (but not watching) is finished.
- has similar shortcomings to the SA box when it comes to season passes, folowing shows that air at different times, and so on.

I obviously have more experience with the SA box. I hope this shows how much better the TiVo software is. I can't wait for the series 3 to make my HD DVR obsolete.

[Rottluver]

TiVo's advantage is the UI and functionality. Some of the things I have seen with my Scientific Atlanta (Adelphia) box, or a friend's Motorola (Comcast) box, include:

Scientific Atlanta box from Adelphia:
- only keeps 7 days of program guide, versus 14 for TiVo
- only lets you search for shows on a particular day, and only by the first letter of the show name, as opposed to the first n letters (however many you want to put in) for TiVo
- allows broad theme searches, with no sub-themes, no actor searches, etc
- if you start watching a show that is being recorded, and you come in during the middle of the show, you have to rewind to the beginning. There is no option to start playing a currently-being-recorded show from the beginning
- if you are watching a show that is currently being recorded, the DVR will skip you back to the beginning when the show ends in real time. So, if you were (for example) halfway through, you'll have to fast-forward to that point to pick up where you left off
- is very unreliable when you try to record multiple episodes of a show. The only options are "all episodes on this channel in this time slot" and "all episodes on this channel in any time slot". The idea of "this time slot" seems to not work at all ( sometimes it picks up the show in other time slots, and sometimes a 5-minute difference means you will miss a showing)
- has no concept of show IDs, first run versus repeats, etc.
- has no ability to recommend shows based on viewing habits
- shows only 5-6 channels at a time in the program guide

Motorola box from Comcast:
- Will turn itself on in order to record. That's great, except that, when it does this, it will turn itself off when the recording is completed. So, if the DVR had turned itself on to record, and you decide to watch something else on the other tuner, you will randomly have the DVR turn itself off when the show you are recording (but not watching) is finished.
- has similar shortcomings to the SA box when it comes to season passes, folowing shows that air at different times, and so on.

I obviously have more experience with the SA box. I hope this shows how much better the TiVo software is. I can't wait for the series 3 to make my HD DVR obsolete.
All your post did was make me grateful that my 3 Series ONE Tivos (DirecTV) are all fully functional and in great shape (knock on wood) and makes me never ever want to use anything but them :(

[stayton]

I recentlly bought an HDTV and moved into Time Warner's area. Because my TiVo can't do HD, I tried out the Time Warner DVR - but kept my TiVo going with my second television.

Someone earlier said that most DVR's can do 85-90% of what TiVo can do, and went on to discuss it quite well. However, there's one thing missing, I think.

My Time Warner DVR is only as smart as Time Warner apparently. And that's not too good. So its guide is often way off. For instance, when the NBA game is scheduled to bump local programming on our CBS affiliate (with several days warning), Time Warner DVR doesn't know it. But TiVo does!

This type of thing happens a lot, and not just with sports programming.

Another thing: when you tell the TW DVR to record all new episodes, it doesn't! If there are back to back episodes, it only records the first one. Stupid!

Also, tonight was the Alias finale, and my Time Warner DVR pooped out after 1 hr minutes. But luckily my TiVo in second bedroom recorded the entire 2 hours. Can you imagine missing the last 15 minutes of a 5 year series?

So can someone please tell me when I can get HDTV via TiVo - and I will RUN, not walk, to it! (PS - I'm no techie, but I am desperate to have my TiVo and HD too!)

[HiHoStevo]

The only way currently is with DirecTV and an HR10-250 HD-Tivo.... (which why I have two of the silly things)

[Anubys]

TiVo's advantage is the UI and functionality. Some of the things I have seen with my Scientific Atlanta (Adelphia) box, or a friend's Motorola (Comcast) box, include:

Scientific Atlanta box from Adelphia:
- only keeps 7 days of program guide, versus 14 for TiVo
- only lets you search for shows on a particular day, and only by the first letter of the show name, as opposed to the first n letters (however many you want to put in) for TiVo
- allows broad theme searches, with no sub-themes, no actor searches, etc
- if you start watching a show that is being recorded, and you come in during the middle of the show, you have to rewind to the beginning. There is no option to start playing a currently-being-recorded show from the beginning
- if you are watching a show that is currently being recorded, the DVR will skip you back to the beginning when the show ends in real time. So, if you were (for example) halfway through, you'll have to fast-forward to that point to pick up where you left off
- is very unreliable when you try to record multiple episodes of a show. The only options are "all episodes on this channel in this time slot" and "all episodes on this channel in any time slot". The idea of "this time slot" seems to not work at all ( sometimes it picks up the show in other time slots, and sometimes a 5-minute difference means you will miss a showing)
- has no concept of show IDs, first run versus repeats, etc.
- has no ability to recommend shows based on viewing habits
- shows only 5-6 channels at a time in the program guide

Motorola box from Comcast:
- Will turn itself on in order to record. That's great, except that, when it does this, it will turn itself off when the recording is completed. So, if the DVR had turned itself on to record, and you decide to watch something else on the other tuner, you will randomly have the DVR turn itself off when the show you are recording (but not watching) is finished.
- has similar shortcomings to the SA box when it comes to season passes, folowing shows that air at different times, and so on.

I obviously have more experience with the SA box. I hope this shows how much better the TiVo software is. I can't wait for the series 3 to make my HD DVR obsolete.


wow...I had no idea...these are MAJOR shortcomings in my book and make the DVR useless...

[newsposter]

stayton, go to newegg and get a HDtivo for 400 bucks. You wont be sorry (unless you can't get OTA). of course it depends on the channels you watch, that's the most important decision in getting the HDtivo.

[cheer]

stayton, go to newegg and get a HDtivo for 400 bucks. You wont be sorry (unless you can't get OTA). of course it depends on the channels you watch, that's the most important decision in getting the HDtivo.
That won't do him any good unless he switches to DirecTV...

--chris

[stayton]

OK, so if I switch to DirectTV, I can have a TiVo box that records HD?

[llogan]

Yup,

HBO, Showtime, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN, Discovery and any channels that you can receive with an over-the-air (OTA) antenna - those would be your 'local' channels (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS, etc.)

That's what we're doing at my house and at my girlfriend's until DirecTV comes out with their own high definition DVR that handles mpeg4.

[stayton]

Yup,

HBO, Showtime, HDNet, HDNet Movies, ESPN, Discovery and any channels that you can receive with an over-the-air (OTA) antenna - those would be your 'local' channels (ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC, PBS, etc.)

That's what we're doing at my house and at my girlfriend's until DirecTV comes out with their own high definition DVR that handles mpeg4.



Thanks - I'm fairly new except that I've had a TiVo since 2004 and love it. Am really shell-shocked by how poor the information is that guides the Time Warner DVR.

Question about the over the air antena for HD. Does it input to the TiVo box along with the cable?

[newsposter]

Thanks - I'm fairly new except that I've had a TiVo since 2004 and love it. Am really shell-shocked by how poor the information is that guides the Time Warner DVR.

Question about the over the air antena for HD. Does it input to the TiVo box along with the cable?

the cable? you mean directv right? There are inputs for one OTA (split internally so you can record 2 shows) and there are 2 sat. inputs. So you can record 1 sat/1ota, or 2 sats or 2 ota at once, all while watching a prerecorded program.

to be clear, hdtivo only works with directv. And if you aren't able to get OTA, you'll be disappointed, assuming you watch the networks of course.

Also note that the Hd stuff like HDnet will currently work with the HDtivo just fine. However, at SOME point (anywhere from months to years but there are other threads for those arguments how long), HD will very likely be all mpeg4 and you will NOT be able to record HD via satellite. Since no one actually knows when this will take place, it's a calculated risk to enter the market at this time.

SD will definitely be mpeg2 for a very long time so you would always have that plus OTA HD of course. I'm happy with that but everyone is different

[stayton]

the cable? you mean directv right? There are inputs for one OTA (split internally so you can record 2 shows) and there are 2 sat. inputs. So you can record 1 sat/1ota, or 2 sats or 2 ota at once, all while watching a prerecorded program.

to be clear, hdtivo only works with directv. And if you aren't able to get OTA, you'll be disappointed, assuming you watch the networks of course.

Also note that the Hd stuff like HDnet will currently work with the HDtivo just fine. However, at SOME point (anywhere from months to years but there are other threads for those arguments how long), HD will very likely be all mpeg4 and you will NOT be able to record HD via satellite. Since no one actually knows when this will take place, it's a calculated risk to enter the market at this time.

SD will definitely be mpeg2 for a very long time so you would always have that plus OTA HD of course. I'm happy with that but everyone is different

YOU ARE SO KIND - THAT HELPS A LOT

[Anubys]

one more thing: you'll only get HBO HD and Showtime HD if you subscribe to those channels...

[MrSpiff]

As usual, this high tech stuff is dizzying to those who don't keep up, like me.

I currently have two SD DirecTivos (one series 1 and one series 2). I covet them almost as much as my children. I don't quite know how I could go without the functionality of Tivo.

Recently I've been seeing more and more HD at other people's houses, and I'm finally ready to jump in (too bad the wife doesn't agree). I have a pretty old 50" mitsubishi, but it's HD ready. I called D* a couple days ago and it seems I can get HD locals in my area thru the dish. This is really what I've been waiting for. I really dislike the idea of an OTA antenna. The lady told me all I had to do was get an HD box and an upgraded dish and I'd be good to go. And the price of the boxes has come down to reasonable levels. I thought I was good to go as soon as I can weasel a few hundred bucks out of the family budget. Until I came here that is.

I think I read in the FAQ that if I bought an HD Tivo today, it would possibly be obsolete and unable to receive locals in a year or so. Something about MPEG-4. Is that true?

Bottom line: Should I jump in to HD thru Directv right now or wait some more? If I wait, will the Tivo interface be lost forever for HD?

[vtfan99]

...
I think I read in the FAQ that if I bought an HD Tivo today, it would possibly be obsolete and unable to receive locals in a year or so. Something about MPEG-4. Is that true?

Bottom line: Should I jump in to HD thru Directv right now or wait some more? If I wait, will the Tivo interface be lost forever for HD?


The HD Tivo will not receive HD locals from D*....not now...not ever. The only HD locals the HD Tivo will pick up will be from OTA, so you must have the antenna. If you don't want an HD Tivo, there is a plain HD box (no DVR yet) that will pick up the HD locals from D*. The HD DVR (non-Tivo) that will pick up the HD locals is supposed to be released this summer....but I think that date has already been pushed back, so who knows.

If you want a Tivo box that records in HD, your only choice is D*...and you don't get the locals from the dish. Yep...it sucks....if only it were a perfect world. :(

[cheer]

Unless you live in NYC or LA, the HD Tivo cannot receive HD locals from DirecTV now. The HD locals are being broadcast using MPEG4 encoding, and the HD Tivo does not support it.

DirecTV will be coming out with an MPEG4-capable DVR, but it will not be Tivo.

[MrSpiff]

The HD Tivo will not receive HD locals from D*....not now...not ever. The only HD locals the HD Tivo will pick up will be from OTA, so you must have the antenna. If you don't want an HD Tivo, there is a plain HD box (no DVR yet) that will pick up the HD locals from D*. The HD DVR (non-Tivo) that will pick up the HD locals is supposed to be released this summer....but I think that date has already been pushed back, so who knows.

If you want a Tivo box that records in HD, your only choice is D*...and you don't get the locals from the dish. Yep...it sucks....if only it were a perfect world. :(
I asked that specific question when I called D* and they said yes, that I can get the HD locals thru the dish. Is this a case of moronic D* customer service?

[newsposter]

LA and NY DO have mpeg2 in HD...if you are in CA you may be able to get them..i dont know about the criteria though. I'm guessing if you are in LA you can get LA :)

search in the HDtivo forum for better answers as there are rumors of mpeg2 being turned off. I know nothing! :)

[slocko]

getting your locals through on ota antenna is not terrible. Direct will even give you the antenna and install it. there are even advantages. with your hd locals coming from the OTA, you won't be subject to any compression from Direct. in the future when you get a 2nd hd tv, the hd-tivo can make a great backup receiver, even if the only thing it can receive are ota channels.

what you have to decide is if currently there are enough hd channels that you would be able to receive through the hd-tivo that would justify the cost of buying or leasing the unit.

for me there is.

As usual, this high tech stuff is dizzying to those who don't keep up, like me.

I currently have two SD DirecTivos (one series 1 and one series 2). I covet them almost as much as my children. I don't quite know how I could go without the functionality of Tivo.

Recently I've been seeing more and more HD at other people's houses, and I'm finally ready to jump in (too bad the wife doesn't agree). I have a pretty old 50" mitsubishi, but it's HD ready. I called D* a couple days ago and it seems I can get HD locals in my area thru the dish. This is really what I've been waiting for. I really dislike the idea of an OTA antenna. The lady told me all I had to do was get an HD box and an upgraded dish and I'd be good to go. And the price of the boxes has come down to reasonable levels. I thought I was good to go as soon as I can weasel a few hundred bucks out of the family budget. Until I came here that is.

I think I read in the FAQ that if I bought an HD Tivo today, it would possibly be obsolete and unable to receive locals in a year or so. Something about MPEG-4. Is that true?

Bottom line: Should I jump in to HD thru Directv right now or wait some more? If I wait, will the Tivo interface be lost forever for HD?

[vtfan99]

Misinformed customer service.....moronic customer service...take your pick. It does get tricky so maybe we should give them some credit.

1. You can get HD locals from the dish now (MPEG 2) if you live in LA or NYC (as cheer mentioned above).

2. If you apply to number 1, then the HD Tivo (Model HR10-250) currently offered via D* will allow you to record the HD locals

3. If you don't apply to number one, then the only way currently to record HD locals with D* is via an OTA and the HR10-250.

4. When the new HD DVR comes out in the future, you will be able to record HD locals from the dish, but this box will not a Tivo box.

See...clear as mud :D

[MrSpiff]

Yes, I am lucky enough to be in the LA area. In this case, I suppose it's a good thing. Property values are another. :up:

So, my original question remains. If I buy this wonderful HD Tivo box, I would be in HD Tivo heaven until DirecTv changes something and turns it into a paperweight? Seems somewhat criminal to sell a machine that becomes useless in a year.

I will try to scour the rest of the threads.

[slocko]

one more thing, conventional wisdom is the SD channels will continue being mpeg2 for the foreseeable future. so again, this will make a great 2nd receiver down the road.

[newsposter]

one more thing, conventional wisdom is the SD channels will continue being mpeg2 for the foreseeable future. so again, this will make a great 2nd receiver down the road.

glad you brought it up. I get tired of hearing others say doorstop. Unless you truly dont have 3+ way conflicts (in that case i can say you dont need 4 tuners), an extra SD plus OTA box is indeed very nice

[joetoronto]

I currently have two SD DirecTivos (one series 1 and one series 2). I covet them almost as much as my children.

lol, you know what they say about family, Spiff.

you can't chose your family but you can chose your recorder.

try the antenna, it works great for me. ;)

[cheer]

Yes, I am lucky enough to be in the LA area. In this case, I suppose it's a good thing. Property values are another. :up:

So, my original question remains. If I buy this wonderful HD Tivo box, I would be in HD Tivo heaven until DirecTv changes something and turns it into a paperweight? Seems somewhat criminal to sell a machine that becomes useless in a year.

I will try to scour the rest of the threads.
Unlikely that the box will be useless in a year, or even three.

Here are the facts, as we know them:

National HD channels and all SD channels are currently in MPEG2
Local HD channels in all markets except NYC and LA are in MPEG4
DirecTV has launched multiple satellites to expand their MPEG4 offerings
The only MPEG4 channels currently announced are the HD locals

Now, here's what I think is reasonable to assume:

Once the HD locals rollout completes, DirecTV will likely start adding national HD channels in MPEG4
Eventually, DirecTV may begin migrating existing MPEG2 HD stuff to MPEG4 (national channels, the NFL stuff, etc.)
It is unlikely that SD channels will migrate to MPEG4; if they do, it will be many years before they start

It's probably going to be over a year before the MPEG4 HD locals rollout finishes. So I'd guess the HR10-250 has at least a couple of years of life; longer for SD and OTA.

[cheer]

getting your locals through on ota antenna is not terrible. Direct will even give you the antenna and install it. there are even advantages. with your hd locals coming from the OTA, you won't be subject to any compression from Direct.
Just a quick note -- the antenna D* supplies is junk. It may work in really favorite circumstances, but...if you really want to do OTA reception, get thee to antennaweb.org.

And yes, your locals in HD will never look better than via OTA.

[slocko]

D* gave me one of those flat round antennas and here north of Tampa it works very well. It even looks good, not like the traditional aerial antennas. I get all the hd locals with no reception problems.

[joetoronto]

D* gave me one of those flat round antennas and here north of Tampa it works very well. It even looks good, not like the traditional aerial antennas. I get all the hd locals with no reception problems.

your fortunate you don't need anything better, slocko.

allot of people have said what cheer just said, they aren't very good.

[slocko]

i was surprised as well. when i lived in Central Jersey, i tried so many different antennas and none could get me all the hd channels without rotating it one way or another.

now i get abc, cbs, nbc, wb, upn, fox, pbs with no problems.

but the point is, that even if the antenna they give you doesn't work, at least all the cabling will be done. then you can replace it with whatever works in your area. for my install the guy multiplex all the signals to 3 different locations. he did a great job.

[baatz]

"...now i get abc, cbs, nbc, wb, upn, fox, pbs with no problems..."

"...he did a great job."
It's guys like you that ruin it for everyone else... You suck all the luck out of the ether! :D

Did you plan where to live based upon HD signal coverage? And, you mean they didn't just cut a big hole in your roof and stick the antenna out of it? :eek:

I've never bought a lotto ticket --- but if I were you I would immediately go buy one. No need to buy more than one, you shouldn't need it. ;)

Or, maybe it's just that I'm UNLUCKY ? :)

[slocko]

:D I know what you mean. Until people here told me that was a crappy antenna, I thought maybe I hadn't been using the right one.

I do feel blessed because I am in HD-Heaven!

[newsposter]

The only MPEG4 channels currently announced are the HD locals


Side note for those not in the know: only the big 4 are mpeg4 on directv. If you want pbs, cw upn wb or whatever the local channel of the week is, sorry. Out of luck.

Yes some people will watch CW! :)

[slocko]

good point. if you are a Smallville fan or Everybody Hates Chris fan, you have no choice but OTA.

[phox_mulder]

Side note for those not in the know: only the big 4 are mpeg4 on directv. If you want pbs, cw upn wb or whatever the local channel of the week is, sorry. Out of luck.

Yes some people will watch CW! :)

And you only get the main subchannel of the affiliates of the big 4.

Yes, that will be the main HD channel, but in many markets there is pretty good stuff on the other subchannels, and you'll only be able to see it with an antenna.


phox

[newsposter]

also dont forget super nbc weather megs doppler storm tracker chaser !

[joetoronto]

also dont forget super nbc weather megs doppler storm tracker chaser !

lol, this reminds me of an "NBC weather plus" station from rochester on sub channel 2-2 that i get OTA.

i've never seen such a fanatical weather forecast. :rolleyes:

[cheer]

A lot of the subchannels are, well, a waste...but some are not. And some are truly unique.

For example, I am told that the Champaign IL Fox affiliate, during NFL games, uses a subchannel to broadcast the game in HD...with no announcers, just stadium audio/noise.

Sure wish my Fox affiliate did that! What a unique way to watch a game -- no prattle!

[baatz]

A lot of the subchannels are, well, a waste...but some are not. And some are truly unique.

For example, I am told that the Champaign IL Fox affiliate, during NFL games, uses a subchannel to broadcast the game in HD...with no announcers, just stadium audio/noise.

Sure wish my Fox affiliate did that! What a unique way to watch a game -- no prattle!Never having had the "luxury" of OTA reception --- I didn't even realize there were such things as multiple subchannels from a station with varying content...

Until now... :eek:

Sounds cool. No jibber jabber? Wow... Almost makes me want to move to Champaign. Or maybe drink a lot of champagne to forget that I don't have a feed like that. :D

[Anubys]

I am told that the Champaign IL Fox affiliate, during NFL games, uses a subchannel to broadcast the game in HD...with no announcers, just stadium audio/noise.

Sure wish my Fox affiliate did that! What a unique way to watch a game -- no prattle!

wow...I would KILL for that...put a lot of microphones aimed at the field and just give me the sounds of the game...I can't stand announcers. They are totally useless and detract from the game...

[Rottluver]

wow...I would KILL for that...put a lot of microphones aimed at the field and just give me the sounds of the game...I can't stand announcers. They are totally useless and detract from the game...
I rather enjoy listening to them make giant asses of themselves about every other call.........and they are occasionaly useful when I miss something important. :D

[joetoronto]

this reminds me of the old C-band days. i remember getting "backhauls" with no commercials, announcers, nothing.

the best though was when there WAS announcers but no commercials, they would say they were going to commercial but they never did, the affiliates would put their local commercials in these spots. they used to talk about all kinds of schit because they weren't "on the air".

once, harry neale said during a hockey game of the late bill goldsworthy "he's on the other side of the grass now" and they both started laughing bigtime. :D

[cheer]

Never having had the "luxury" of OTA reception --- I didn't even realize there were such things as multiple subchannels from a station with varying content...

Until now... :eek:
Some is useless. Many channels have a non-HD digital feed of their HD programming. In Chicago, the local ABC affiliate used to run ABC News Now on a subchannel. Several do the silly weather thing (weather maps/forecasts 24 x 7).

PBS here actually has the national PBS feed on it's "main" HD channel, and a feed of the local programming on a second and PBS Create on the third. One local channel has, like, six subchannels. Again, a lot of chaff, but occasionally one finds some wheat.

I strongly recommend you give OTA reception a try. Depending on where you live, you might just need rabbit ears or a decent indoor antenna.
Sounds cool. No jibber jabber? Wow... Almost makes me want to move to Champaign. Or maybe drink a lot of champagne to forget that I don't have a feed like that. :D
That is, without a doubt, the most brilliant programming decision I've ever seen. Frankly, I'd pay a monthly subscription fee to get sports broadcasts sans announcers.

[newsposter]

this reminds me of the old C-band days. i remember getting "backhauls" with no commercials, announcers, nothing.

the best though was when there WAS announcers but no commercials, they would say they were going to commercial but they never did


So they dont still have that today? I had a house with C bad in the early 90s. Was wild watching the war stuff live. I had no idea that tv people swore so much off the air either. I'd catch the feeds from the news vans etc. Boy do they put on their smiley faces though when the red light goes on. I think people's image would be shattered if we ever / still got live feeds such as this.

[joetoronto]

i don't know, newsposter. i haven't had C-band in about 10 years now so i'm out of the loop but that "black board" was really cool. :D

nothing like an "open sky". ;)

[timc01]

I picked up bits on various posts - but would be grateful for all the correct answers:

Currently Cablevision (Westchester, NY), Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR - hate it. Want to move back to a Tivo Box.

If I get the HR10-250 will I always be able to keep Tivo or will D* dump it in this box also?

Can I get HD locals here? Or will I need an antenna?

Thanks

[cheer]

Right now the only Tivo HD DVR is the HR10-250. That requires D* service.

Sooner or later, D* will stop selling it. Support may last for quite some time, but you will not be able to get HD locals via D* -- you'll have to use an antenna.

Alternatively you can wait for the S3, which hopefully will be out later this year, and use it with your cable.

[Steve O]

I'm trying to get my HR10-250 integrated into my Harmony/Logitech H659 controlled system. If I read this thread correctly, at least a couple of years ago, there was no discrete codes to go to specific output formats. Is that still true? The reason I ask is that I want to set up two "activities" for the HD TiVo... one that shows HD. The other that switches everything to 480i. The reason I want to do that is because I have it wired to an RF modulator to send the signal via coax to other parts of the house. I don't want to toggle between 720p and 480i. I just want it to be able to set the output correctly based on the activity. Same is true for the "aspect" setting. Can it be set, not toggled?

Thanks,
Steve

[wmccain]

Alas!

No discrete commands for formats, no native format mode, and no S-video or composite output at low-res concurrent with high-def on the component and HDMI outputs. All these omissions add up to the fact that it is impossible to control the HR10-250 intelligently with a control system such as yours (or such as mine, which is AMX).

No discrete commands for the aspect ("ratio") settings, either. (However, there is a "dodge" that works pretty well, since most high-def sets have decent aspect controls of their own. Tell the HR10-250 that the aspect ratio of your TV set is 4:3, even if the actual sets are a mixture of both 4:3 and 16:9. The HR10-250's aspect control works exactly the same on the high-res formats, output via component and HDMI, regardless of the "setup setting" of "TV aspect ratio". But setting the TV aspect ratio to 4:3 makes the "ratio" toggle work better when the format is changed to low-res and the S-video and/or composite outputs are being used, as for your RF modulator.)

The lack of decent format control has gotten me to seriously consider opening the box and tapping the drive voltages on the front panel's format LEDs. Then, using those voltages as input to a set of status ports on an AMX controller, one could programmatically determine what actual format mode the box is in when you send the "format toggle" command ...

But most likely I will just wait for the HR20-250. Although it is not a TiVo box, it is known that the HR20-250 will support direct control via an RS232 port (using the same command set that has historically been supported by DirecTV receivers, which includes discrete format codes). It is also likely that the HR20-250 will support concurrent low-res/high-res output, and a native format mode (since the current crop of non-DVR high-def DirecTV receivers, such as the LG LSS-3200A, do support those features).

[rhudson19187]

The people who have seen the demo / beta units seem to say that the second sentence here is untrue, you can change output format by remote. Can anyone confirm this? It would be highly annoying if you couldn't.
The remote that came with my DirecTV HD DVR has both a button that controls ratio and also you can program the up arrow to change formats. The programming is done using the menu for settings and then select "remote control".

[HiHoStevo]

I would like to pose a question for the "remote" guru's......

I have been using Tivo for about a year and a half now... but have been to busy with "life" to really get into them any deeper than figuring out how to do the 30 second skip, & turn on the TV and audio receiver with the single green button on the Tivo remote..., which interestingly enough seemed to work fine on my 80gig SD-Tivo's, but does not seem to work on the remotes for my HD-Tivo (is there something different here)?

To whit... I had an SD-Tivo set up
with my wife's JVC television and Denon audio receiver running the
sound output. When I programmed the remote I went through the menu to
setup the TV and the Receiver and from then on when I pushed the green
button (with the switch in the satellite position) both the TV and the
Denon would power up (great)! However, I just upgraded my wife's Tivo
to the HR 10-250 in preparation for upgrading her TV to HD this
summer. However, when I was programming the new remote the green
button operates the TV only for power, not the receiver. The remote
does operate the receiver for sound control just fine... but will not
do the one-button power-up that I enjoyed with the old remote. So I
am just using the old remote which still operates the TV and the
receiver just fine and seems to have no issues interfacing with the
HD-Tivo... (although I would really prefer using the HD remote). Is
there something different about the HD remote that prevents them from
operating in the same fashion that my older remote from the SD-Tivo
does?

[wmccain]

The remote that came with my DirecTV HD DVR has both a button that controls ratio and also you can program the up arrow to change formats. The programming is done using the menu for settings and then select "remote control".
Quite true. But the issue here, for home automation folks like myself, is not whether the remote can be used to change format and aspect ration, but whether or not these things can be controlled discretely. Unfortunately, both the "Ratio" button and the "Up Arrow" act as "toggles" that flip from one mode to another — they do not provide a direct method to put the DVR in any specific format or aspect ratio.

For home automation purposes, "toggling" keys on remotes are next to useless. The classic example is the "Power On/Off" button. (Fortunately, some brands of equipment do provide separate IR codes for "Power On" and "Power Off", even though they are not always implemented as two separate buttons on the actual remote that comes with the device.)

[cbrantly]

Does anybody have the new Series 3 Tivo yet? When is it coming out?

[annenoe]

Just posted to another thread put wanted to clarify something.

In the original post, there is a comment about "dual tuner" capability:
>> DirecTV HD TiVos contain 2 DirecTV SD/HD/OTA tuners (a total of 3 coax inputs) which can receive/record standard definition and high definition programming from DirecTV as well as local digital/HDTV broadcasts brought in by an antenna. 2 tuners means 2 different shows can be recorded simultaneously. <<

Just to be clear, I have one OTA, one satellite hooked up and cannot use dual tuners. As I understand it, you need a minimum of *both* satellite cables plugged in to get dual tuner capability to work. But with both satellite, you could also plug in OTA.

[ericlhyman]

Is there any info on when DirecTV will begin the swap for HD Tivo owners?

[cheer]

There isn't even a release date for the new DVR yet.

[cheer]

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/19/tivo-tells-fcc-cable-operators-to-expect-series-3-boxes-soon/
Of course, that's not the HD DVR that we were just discussing... :)

[Bob_Newhart]

I'm sure this topic has been covered ad nauseum but I didn't see it and didn't look carefully. I just bought my first HDTV and an HR10-250 HD Tivo.

Question: When Directv releases their HD DVR that will record local channels, will there be offers where I can upgrade my current HD DVR to theirs? I know I'll have to get the 5 LNB dish, as well. Any guesses on what that will run?

Question: What additional channels do you think will be added to their service in the near future? Just the locals or a lot more?


Thanks

[Joe Smith]

There isn't even a release date for the new DVR yet.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=309297 talks about an August 2006 release.

[cheer]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=309297 talks about an August 2006 release.
Yes it does. But that's not the same as an announced release date.

[Kenwood]

LA and NY DO have mpeg2 in HD...if you are in CA you may be able to get them..i dont know about the criteria though. I'm guessing if you are in LA you can get LA :)

search in the HDtivo forum for better answers as there are rumors of mpeg2 being turned off. I know nothing! :)

Okay, D* has me living in LA, but I moved to Phoenix a year ago. I have DNS East & West Coast feeds. I didn't want to lose those or the ability to watch Dodgers/Lakers games.

So would I be able to receive the HD Local feeds (Living in PHX) if I bought a HDtivo?

[cybrsurfer]

Okay, D* has me living in LA, but I moved to Phoenix a year ago. I have DNS East & West Coast feeds. I didn't want to lose those or the ability to watch Dodgers/Lakers games.

So would I be able to receive the HD Local feeds (Living in PHX) if I bought a HDtivo?

click on the link below to go to DirecTV DNS (Distant network) site to find out if you can still get the NY/LA feeds...

http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressForm.aspx