** HD TiVo and HD DirecTV TiVo FAQ **

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Bigg
What is the real deal with the digital broadcasting? i've heard about an 80% number that is it is not reached, the law will not happen. It is quite ridiculous though to stop broadcating in a way that has been used for 60 years. All of those little 2.6' tvs will be unusable, PIP and other functions will be unusable, and there aren't even any digital boxes out there that aren't HD and have a pricetag to reflect it. Requiring all stations to broadcast in digital, and giving them the option to get rid of the analog makes sense, but outlawing it? Someone needs to send some drug dogs to sniff out the marajauna these guys at the FCC are smoking. VCRs, TiVos and pc tuner cards would need converter boxes. these would have to be ir blasted without the possibility of twin channel watching w/o multiple boxes. AND the range of these digital is in many cases shorter, so people would no longer be able to watch the news from 5 different cities. Although many people will have digital sets, most of those willl still have analog second and third sets. THIS LAW IS RIDICULOUS!!!! maybe HD for 10% of all channels, but not THIS. In sufficient quantity the digital tuner won't be very expensive at all. But getting to the point where this happens is the problem; in a price-competitive industry with very small margins, manufacturers aren't usually interested in being the first out there to force people into a new tuner. But if everyone has to do it at the same time, it might be possible.

Yes, equipment will become unusable without a separate receiver; that's why a phase-in period was established. Digital television is not something brand new sprung on us today and given 2 yearsw to completely replace analog broadcasts; this stuff has been in existence for years, and many stations have broadcast digitally for years. We're just now reaching a period where people can actually believe a critical mass can occur.

[Bigg]

Certainly people are getting digital receivers and watching it in digital, but there are still millions of people who want to use NTSC tuners.

[hongcho]

I think cable companies will still do NTSC (analog), looking at how OpenCable specs are written.

And "the real deal" as far as the intent of the transition is for the better utilization of the air wave frequencies. That usually translates to more money for some people. :)

Hong.

[dswallow]

I hadn't thought much about the little portable television receivers; that's probably one device that's just gonna be obsoleted. I doubt anyone's going to produce a little portable ATSC receiver for them. ;)

[feldon23]

Well already ATSC receivers are pretty damn small. 5 inches by 3 inches by 3/4 inch surface mounted on an HDTV tuner PCI card.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by feldon23
Well already ATSC receivers are pretty damn small. 5 inches by 3 inches by 3/4 inch surface mounted on an HDTV tuner PCI card. That's a lot bigger than many little portable TV's I've seen.

Remember Seiko's watch TV, for example? It had a little battery pack with the tuner, but still was tiny compared to 5x3x3/4".

[Bigg]

Who wants to pay them for a few channels to pip and such. Anyway, this new regulation is UNFAIR to every person in this country who owns an NTSC tuner. Which is like 250 million of us. theres probably like 400million or more tuners in the country. the numbers just don't add up for this regulation to work. I hope that there are not enough people with cable/sat to make this work, or someone stops the pot smoking i the FCC offices.

[feldon23]

Bigg,

You're completely full of crap. There are not 250 million people watching TV with rabbit ears. Something like 25% have a TV that depends on OTA and something like 15% have their primary TV depending on OTA. For those people, a $30-50 adapter should be made available to tune in ATSC.

85% of the population has cable/satellite.

[dswallow]

I own at least 6 NTSC tuners, and I can't wait for NTSC to go bye bye. So make that 249,999,994. :D

[Bigg]

there are 250million people with NTSC tuners that will be obsolete. A LOT of people have rabbit ears in combo with D*/ E* or on a second TV that they don;t want to pay mirroring on, or they don't want to run a cable to. Also, a LOT of people have those little 5" tvs that have antennas, or the little LCD ones. if you don't like NTSC, don't use it. simple as that. if you do, do.An adapter that adds another ugly thingy to your entertainment center, doesn;t allow pip and is herder to control than the integrated tuner in a tivo or vcr.

[QZ1]

Originally posted by feldon23
There are not 250 million people watching TV with rabbit ears. Something like 25% have a TV that depends on OTA and something like 10% have their primary TV depending on OTA. For those people, a $30-50 adapter should be made available to tune in ATSC.

75% of the population has cable/satellite.
Periodically, articles are quoted at AVS Forum with the statistics. IIRC, they don't calculate how many people have OTA, but they have said that 15% have OTA only, and 85% have cable/satellite; of course some of the 85% also have OTA, in addition to the 15%.

[hongcho]

> Anyway, this new regulation is UNFAIR to every person in this country who owns an NTSC tuner.

I don't know whether that number is 250 million or smaller. I just think that you can't possibly represent "every person in this country who owns an NTSC tuner". Maybe just you. :)

Come to think of it, I do have three NTSC tuners and two of them, I actually do use for tuning to an NTSC channel.

Hong.

[hongcho]

Oh, and BTW, FCC would probably be the right place to complain about the issue, unless Mr. Powell visits this site often, of course. :p

Hong.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by hongcho
Oh, and BTW, FCC would probably be the right place to complain about the issue, unless Mr. Powell visits this site often, of course. :p Well, he does have a TiVo...

[jmrife]

Sooner rather than later, NTSC television broadcasting is going away. It matters not, at this point, whether it is fair or unfair, wise or unwise.

Where where all the defenders of NTSC in 1998?

[mattn2]

Great FAQ Feldon,

FYI, I notice that you mention 23 O&O from Fox but only list 22 (Dallas is listed twice).

Thanks for the service!

# Matt

[feldon23]

Hmm. I'll have to look into that. Thanks!

[madpoet]

Sorry if I missed this... anyone know if the box will output on all outputs at the same time? For instance, will both component and DVI output together?

[feldon23]

I guess I need to add this to the FAQ.

You can have EITHER the Component OR DVI (HDCP) active. And the S-Video/Composite are only active when the whole receiver is set to 480i output.

[wmccain]

Originally posted by feldon23
You can have EITHER the Component OR DVI (HDCP) active. And the S-Video/Composite is are only active when the whole receiver is set to 480i output.
BIG mistakes (sigh).

How easy is it to switch between the component and DVI outputs? (I know about the front panel button for 480i format.)

[feldon23]

Probably 3 menus deep. Why? How often would you want to do this?

[madpoet]

Ouch... that sucks. Trying to justify my WVHS vcr :). Still I guess I could use it to offload shows to tape that I want to archive but am not as picky about quality.

[feldon23]

Switching between 1080i/720p/480p/480i? Press UP on the TiVo remote.

[madpoet]

No, switching between component and DVI... but now I'm getting confused :)

[feldon23]

Nobody knows for sure. I just guessed 2 posts ago that it would be 3 menus deep.

[madpoet]

Eh, ok. Something I'd set up to do overnight then... switch to component, play the show through to the vrc, then back to DVI for day to day viewing. Not terribly convenient. I'd prefer the Voom method of all outputs active at once, but oh well.

[wmccain]

Originally posted by feldon23
Probably 3 menus deep. Why? How often would you want to do this?
Whenever she walks from the master bedroom to the kitchen or vice versa.

Right now the HD-capable 17" LCD in the kitchen can view any of three TiVos (home theater, MBR, her office). The MBR TiVo is used the most — it's a 2-tuner DirecTV model which I intend to replace with the new HDTV TiVo. The existing MBR feed to the kitchen is analog NTSC, and I would have been happy to keep it that way were it not for the lack of concurrent composite/S-video in the new TiVo. So I was planning to upgrade the feed to the kitchen to component video, whilst using the DVI for the (planned) new 32" LCD in the MBR itself.

I guess I just assumed that both the component and DVI were always active, even though the NTSC outputs are not. (After all, they are both the same high def resolution.) That is, until I was shocked by your post earlier today ...

[Bigg]

Component video splitter...

[wmccain]

Originally posted by feldon23
Nobody knows for sure. I just guessed 2 posts ago that it would be 3 menus deep.
If you aren't sure about that, how sure are you that the component and DVI outputs are not concurrently active?

[acroswel]

From what other people posted I thought the composite and s-video outputs are active at the same time. But they're both only active when the output resolution is 480i.

[feldon23]

Originally posted by wmccain
If you aren't sure about that, how sure are you that the component and DVI outputs are not concurrently active?
Everything in the FAQ is from official sources. The Component vs. DVI thing is from a TiVo employee.

[BBobley]

Any news on the quality of the 8VSB tuner in the HD Tivo? Have any of the beta testers reported on how it compares to other HD receivers in terms of its ability to lock in on OTA digital signals?

Pete Putnam has run some very interesting articles in which he compares different receivers and antennas:

http://www.projectorexpert.com/

I'm hoping the Tivo is a bit more sensitive and less prone to multipath problems than my Toshiba DST-3000.

Brett

[exchguy]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but is anyone aware if this unit will contain a Signal meter for OTA tuning? In my opinion, no signal meter = no sale!

thanks,
Exchguy

[MCodanti]

We have heard from a good source that it does indeed have an OTA signal meter.

[Tom in OH]

not sure if we've talked about this yet but, do u guys think the HD-dvr250 will output any format regardless of the format recorded? In other words, will it upconvert a 480i recording to 720p or 1080i ?

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Tom in OH
not sure if we've talked about this yet but, do u guys think the HD-dvr250 will output any format regardless of the format recorded? In other words, will it upconvert a 480i recording to 720p or 1080i ? Yes. And yes, it's already been talked about. ;)

[Tom in OH]

very good Doug -- u passed.

just testing your infinite wisdom...

[hongcho]

> I'm hoping the Tivo is a bit more sensitive and less prone to multipath problems than my Toshiba DST-3000.

I guess your experience with DST-3000 hasn't been the same as me. My DST-3000 with CM4228 had been wonderful. I am expecting HR10-250 to be just as good.

Hong.

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by hongcho
> My DST-3000 with CM4228 had been wonderful.

Hong.

just curious - how close are u to the broadcast towers? I'm hooking up an ota this week for use with the HD-dvr250.

Thx, Tom

[chadfetter]

When is the latest date that these will be released to the public?

[dswallow]

Originally posted by chadfetter
When is the latest date that these will be released to the public? The first shipments begin 3/31. It'll probably be towards the end of April or early May when they're more readily available.

[hongcho]

Tom, I am about 40 miles off, I think.

Hong.

[whsbuss]

Does anyone know if the HR10-250 will indicate the format source (480i/730p/1080i) being received? If so, will the front panel LEDs indicate the format or maybe on-screen?

Its hard to remember what locals broadcast what format (ABC,NBC,PBS.etc.)

[AbMagFab]

Do you really care about the source format? Won't you just fix it so the HD Tivo outputs at 720p or 1080i?

[dswallow]

Originally posted by whsbuss
Does anyone know if the HR10-250 will indicate the format source (480i/730p/1080i) being received? If so, will the front panel LEDs indicate the format or maybe on-screen?

Its hard to remember what locals broadcast what format (ABC,NBC,PBS.etc.) It would appear the front panel has lights to indicate the output format selected: http://www.cesweb.org/shared_files/innovations/innovations_2004/2787/mainphoto2787.jpg

[whsbuss]

Originally posted by AbMagFab
Do you really care about the source format? Won't you just fix it so the HD Tivo outputs at 720p or 1080i?

Well if I set the default HD Tivo output format to 720p and my local OTA CBS is broadcasting in 1080i I would want the output in 1080i, right?

THe HLN-467W is a native 720p display.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by AbMagFab
Do you really care about the source format? Won't you just fix it so the HD Tivo outputs at 720p or 1080i? Most will; those that want to let another device do stretching on 4:3 material would more than likely be the ones needing to switch between format.

The same would apply to those that want another device to handle the output format conversions for 16:9 material, though I'd expect there'd be less benefit for most people over just letting the HD DVR do it.

As an example, my Fujitsu P50 plasma display can do non-linear stretching on 480i and 480p signals only; so unless I want to watch all 4:3 material with sidebars or linearly stretched (and I don't), I'll be switching formats depending on the source material that was recorded.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by whsbuss
Well if I set the default HD Tivo output format to 720p and my local OTA CBS is broadcasting in 1080i I would want the output in 1080i, right?

THe HLN-467W is a native 720p display. No you won't have to switch, the TiVo will handle that sort of conversion. Whatever the unit receives will be sent to the display device in the output format you select. If your HLN-476W is a native 720p display, you'll probably want to leave the DVR outputting 720p. If your display can do conversions on the signal on its own, and those conversions are different than what are built into the DVR, then you might want to switch output formats at times.

[whsbuss]

Originally posted by dswallow
It would appear the front panel has lights to indicate the output format selected: http://www.cesweb.org/shared_files/innovations/innovations_2004/2787/mainphoto2787.jpg

Yea, it sure looks that way. And using the UP arrow on the peanut would toggle through the LEDs.

[whsbuss]

Originally posted by dswallow
No you won't have to switch, the TiVo will handle that sort of conversion. Whatever the unit receives will be sent to the display device in the output format you select. If your HLN-476W is a native 720p display, you'll probably want to leave the DVR outputting 720p. If your display can do conversions on the signal on its own, and those conversions are different than what are built into the DVR, then you might want to switch output formats at times.

The HLN-467 uses the Faroudja Film mode to do all format conversions. I gotta believe this is a better system than the HD Tivo has. So I would want any 1080i source fed directly to the HDTV DVI input.

[hongcho]

> Does anyone know if the HR10-250 will indicate the format source (480i/730p/1080i) being received?

I am not sure about the source format (is this important?). It is supposed to indicate what the output format is.

Hong.

[hongcho]

> So I would want any 1080i source fed directly to the HDTV DVI input.

Then set your HR10-250's output format to 1080i.

Hong.

[whsbuss]

Originally posted by hongcho
> So I would want any 1080i source fed directly to the HDTV DVI input.

Then set your HR10-250's output format to 1080i.

Hong.

That's my point. When the source format is 1080i, I would want the HD Tivo output format to match, i.e. 1080i. But when the source format is 720p, I want the output format to match. That's why it would be helpful for some sort of source format indicator. My current Moto OTA receiver has it on the display screen.

[hongcho]

My Toshiba DST-3000 didn't have one. And I haven't seen any report of HR10-250 having one for the source format.

There have been several requests from others about adding some sort of source-format-to-output-format mapping configuration, but I doubt we will see that soon from DirecTV/TiVo.

Hong.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by hongcho
My Toshiba DST-3000 didn't have one. And I haven't seen any report of HR10-250 having one for the source format.

There have been several requests from others about adding some sort of source-format-to-output-format mapping configuration, but I doubt we will see that soon from DirecTV/TiVo. For that we have the TiVo Underground. I'm sure someone will figure out a way, if it's possible at all. ;)

[webini]

Here's a question that I have not seen an answer for. I apologize in advance if it has already been answered!

What about a cable input? I still use basic cable for the local channels that are not yet broadcasting in digital. So I would have 2 D* inputs, one OTA input. What about the cable input? Is there one? Or do I diplex?

Mark

[midas]

Nope, can't hook up your cable to it.

[webini]

Not even through a diplexer? This is a show stopper for me (WAF). :(

[dswallow]

Originally posted by webini
Not even through a diplexer? This is a show stopper for me (WAF). :( The HD DVR has no way to encode analog signals. It can only deal with OTA digital and DirecTV inputs since those are already encoded. Remember, even "live TV" on the DVR is actually recorded on the hard drive and played back immediately, so an encoded signal is an absolute must.

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by webini
Here's a question that I have not seen an answer for. I apologize in advance if it has already been answered!

What about a cable input? I still use basic cable for the local channels that are not yet broadcasting in digital.

Mark

can u connect your analog cable directly to your ANT input on your tv and use the tv's tuner for cable channels?

[feldon23]

Keeping in mind that the Channel Master 4228 is an awesome antenna. It more than makes up for any limitations in the Toshiba.

[edrock200]

Yes thanks to DSwallow's advice I got a CM 4228 antenna and a CM 7777 pre-amp. This combination got me the big 4, PBS and the WB in HD and I live far from the towers. My other antenna and preamp just couldn't do it.

[Tom in OH]

edrock200 -

I'm installing an ota also, how far away are u from the towers?... just curious.

[midas]

Just remember, the CM4228 is a UHF only antenna. If you need VHF, it won't do it.

[rogelah]

How are the OTA channels distinguished from the local channels. On my Sony SAT-HD100 locals are just 2, 4, 6,... and the OTAs are 2.1, 4.1,6.1,...

[feldon23]

Analog locals are just 2, 4, 6
Digital locals are just 2.1, 4.1, 6.1

Or if they get really fancy, 2-1, 4-1, and 6-1. :)

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by midas
Just remember, the CM4228 is a UHF only antenna. If you need VHF, it won't do it.

good point, I had to go with a gigantic 14 footer just to pick up NBC (channel 2). I much would've rather bought the smallish uhf type.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by midas
Just remember, the CM4228 is a UHF only antenna. If you need VHF, it won't do it. It can be good enough up around VHF12 and VHF13 though. If the signal is sufficiently strong from the transmitter.

[edrock200]

Originally posted by Tom in OH
edrock200 -

I'm installing an ota also, how far away are u from the towers?... just curious.

Well I just looked it up again and I'm not as far as I thought, about 30 miles or so. I had a heck of a time getting the WB, just ask DSwallow about my PM harassment. ;) I had a VHF/UHF antenna in my addic, not sure which model, and a winegard ap-8700 preamp and the WB would not come in, the big 4 would but with problems.

Once I got the CM7777 the big 4 came in fine but the WB was still a no go. Once I got the CM 4228 antenna I got the WB, PBS and several other local digital channels in addition to the big 4.

The biggest time consumer though was aiming. It took me forever to get it right and it could still use some tweaking. I will order a mount with rotator so I can tweak it at my tv. For me aiming was hard because being in the addic seems to affect the signal.

My wife was downstairs watching the TV (the signal meter on the ts360 is crap so we had to actually watch the channels) and I was in the addic aiming. Sometimes standing in certain parts of the addic would make a channel come in whereas standing in other parts would weaken it. And it's not areas you would think, I wasn't standing in front of it or behind it, I would be off to the side or far in the corners. I'd get all the channels to come in, then I'd leave the addic and and soon as I exited the signal would get blocky. So it took a lot of guessing and checking. I almost fell off my ladder like 3 times. :)

[dswallow]

Originally posted by edrock200
Well I just looked it up again and I'm not as far as I thought, about 30 miles or so. I had a heck of a time getting the WB, just ask DSwallow about my PM harassment. ;) I had a VHF/UHF antenna in my addic, not sure which model, and a winegard ap-8700 preamp and the WB would not come in, the big 4 would but with problems.

Once I got the CM7777 the big 4 came in fine but the WB was still a no go. Once I got the CM 4228 antenna I got the WB, PBS and several other local digital channels in addition to the big 4.

The biggest time consumer though was aiming. It took me forever to get it right and it could still use some tweaking. I will order a mount with rotator so I can tweak it at my tv. For me aiming was hard because being in the addic seems to affect the signal.

My wife was downstairs watching the TV (the signal meter on the ts360 is crap so we had to actually watch the channels) and I was in the addic aiming. Sometimes standing in certain parts of the addic would make a channel come in whereas standing in other parts would weaken it. And it's not areas you would think, I wasn't standing in front of it or behind it, I would be off to the side or far in the corners. I'd get all the channels to come in, then I'd leave the addic and and soon as I exited the signal would get blocky. So it took a lot of guessing and checking. I almost fell off my ladder like 3 times. :) What kind of insulation was in your attic, Ed? You sound a little stuffed up; you keep saying addic. :p

[Tom in OH]

Ed, glad u came thru your antenna aiming without any injuries, sounds like it was quite a job. It reminds me of aiming the Phase 3 dish last Spring on my roof. I held the cordless phone w/earpiece and the wifey watched the signal meter. Sort of fun in a way but tedious.

I guess being in the attic will help prevent corrosion and u certainly won't have any trouble with wind but I bet your signal strength would jump if the antenna was outside. U must've been acting as a reflector to the signal given your different results while moving about.

It's lucky u don't have to worry about picking up any VHF signals. I only have one VHF (NBC channel 2)which required a much bigger antenna than a UHF only(all the rest are UHF). I'm about 70 miles from the towers so I've got to get that baby high and directed perfectly but it should work. I just hope the wind doesn't blow it down. I just brought home the RS VU-190XR - almost 14 feet long. Supposed to bring in UHF from 100 miles. We'll see..... (I might have to ask Doug to hold the ladder and catch me if(when) I fall...

[edrock200]

Good luck Tom! Let us know how it goes. The attic ;) install was more for convenience. After looking through teh baltimore/dc thread at AVS I might move it to the roof but I'm not sure. There are occasional glitches in the signal that would probably go away if it were mounted on the roof...

[Tom in OH]

I bet your signal would be much stronger outside and also being in the attic, u might lose the signal completely if it rains, is foggy or snows. I can see your point on the convenience factor. I wish the attic idea would work here.

All u'd need for a roof instal is a tripod from Radio Shack ($27), a 5 foot mast(~$10) and ground cable.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Tom in OH
All u'd need for a roof instal is a tripod from Radio Shack ($27), a 5 foot mast(~$10) and ground cable. and... a ladder, maybe some rope anchored to a fixed structure to tie around your waist, cleated shoes (if a very sloped roof -- old tennis shoes with screws driven into them can work), a drill (and long drill bit) to make a hole to get the cable inside, and some caulk or putty to seal the hole around the cabling.

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by dswallow
and... a ladder, maybe some rope anchored to a fixed structure to tie around your waist, cleated shoes (if a very sloped roof -- old tennis shoes with screws driven into them can work), a drill (and long drill bit) to make a hole to get the cable inside, and some caulk or putty to seal the hole around the cabling.

yes, yes, yes, but that's stuff guys like us have lying 'round the house from previous projects...

u forgot to mention he'll also need U for roof catching.....

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Tom in OH
yes, yes, yes, but that's stuff guys like us have lying 'round the house from previous projects...

u forgot to mention he'll also need U for roof catching..... And then there's the "Real men don't need rope or special shoes" factor if you're being watched while you install it by neighbors/family... :)

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by dswallow
And then there's the "Real men don't need rope or special shoes" factor if you're being watched while you install it by neighbors/family... :)

expected u to say u didn't have a 'long drill' lying around the house... but I wouldn't believe u... I bet u have plenty of caulk too...

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Tom in OH
expected u to say u didn't have a 'long drill' lying around the house... but I wouldn't believe u... I bet u have plenty of caulk too... Having just remodeled my kitchen a little over a year ago, I have almost every necessary (and unnecessary) tool to rip any size or shape hole in almost any type of material. And I have the supplies to seal it back up again. :D

[Bigg]

For those with a VHF channel, if the VHF channel is like 30 mi away, can you just take a pair of rabbit ears for VHF and a UHF only rooftop and then combine the signal with a bakcwards cable splitter? Or am I totally off???

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by Bigg
For those with a VHF channel, if the VHF channel is like 30 mi away, can you just take a pair of rabbit ears for VHF and a UHF only rooftop and then combine the signal with a bakcwards cable splitter? Or am I totally off???

that might work just fine since VHF is supposedly easier to receive than UHF, especially if someone is close. Unfortunately many of us are much further away than 30miles. But good idea. A smaller antenna outside on the roof would be much less susceptible to winds.

[AbMagFab]

Any signal combination like that will result in a ton of interference, and an almost unusable end result. You need to filter each half before merging them.

For example, you could filter all UHF from the VHF cable, and all VHF from the UHF cable, and then try that. Or even better get a modulator, take the VHF channel you want, and modulate it to a specific spot on the UHF cable (rather than merging the entire feed from both).

[Tom in OH]

I've never tried combining the UHF and VHF signals from 2 different antennas but u might be right about the interference. How then do VHF/UHF/FM antennas deal with this issue?

Thx, Tom

[Darin]

If it's all coming from a single antenna, its' not an issue because there's only one source. It's not that VHF interferes with UHF, it's that there are two sources that could be picking up the same signal, and if they're out of phase in the slightest they interfere with each other. But you can easily and cheaply combine separate UHF and VHF antennas with a joiner meant specifically for that purpose, such as the 0549 shown at the bottom of this page (http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/joiners.htm). I'm doing that now with a separate VHF and UHF antenna on my roof, and I also have one of the jointennas to merge in a signal from a third antenna for a single station in the opposite direction.

[Tom in OH]

Thx Darin for the input. I might need that webpage in the future. Your roof must look very kewl(if u ask me) but also u must have a Very easy going wife. Mine has complained ever since she saw the size of the ota I brought home and it's not even on the roof yet....

[AbMagFab]

Yup, that'll do the trick. Those Jointenna's are performing the filtering before merging, so you don't get the cross interference. I like the ones on the top of the page that do it for a specific channel, much better than modulating out through some other device.

[Darin]

Originally posted by Tom in OH
Your roof must look very kewl(if u ask me)
Heh, well, it does look kinda funny. I've got a mast in the middle at the very peak with the UHF and VHF antenna on it (the third OTA is in the attic), a Dish500 at one corner for 110 & 119, and a 30" at the opposite for 101. I've thought about putting flashing lights on them for kitch factor, but that's another project I'd never finish.
but also u must have a Very easy going wife.
You still have much to learn. :D ;)

[edrock200]

Originally posted by Darin

You still have much to learn. :D ;)

LOL! :D

[Toeside]

Originally posted by Darin

You still have much to learn. :D ;) [/B]

He must me a newbie. :p I was wondering how you'd reply to that statement.

[Bigg]

Nice sounding anetnna setup. thx for the info on UHF and VHF combing. The UHF and VHF antenna combiner will be useful when I get HD, with NBC and CBS on UHF aways away, and ABC on VHF practically right next door (I get their analog with a coathangar).

[DavidTigerFan]

Hey guys, need a little help. I got a new Phase III dish. I want to run Feldon's first scenario where I have 2 outputs of the dish go into a 2x4 multiswitch and 2 going to the HDtivo when I get it. (in the mean time I will have an HD receiver plugged in). However the Phase III dish has no labels for the outputs. How do I know which ones point to what satellites?

-DTF

[dswallow]

Originally posted by DavidTigerFan
Hey guys, need a little help. I got a new Phase III dish. I want to run Feldon's first scenario where I have 2 outputs of the dish go into a 2x4 multiswitch and 2 going to the HDtivo when I get it. (in the mean time I will have an HD receiver plugged in). However the Phase III dish has no labels for the outputs. How do I know which ones point to what satellites? It doesn't matter. The Phase III dish has a built-in multiswitch. The 2x4 multiswitch you have will send 13v to whatever is connected to one input and 17v to whatever is connected to the other input. The voltage will tell the built-in multiswitch what signal to pass through to it. All will work as designed. ;)

[DavidTigerFan]

Ahh thank you doug!

[Special_Ed21]

Originally posted by mjones
Another good use for native output from an STB is the ability to have a specific device do the scaling.

For example, the Samsung HLN617w DLP set will accept both 720p and 1080i signals. The display is a 720p native display, but uses a Faroudja for signal conversion. That chipset is arguably one of the best available for signal conversion in the digital domain.

In my setup I have a Samsung SIRT165 STB which has a physical output selector switch for a single output resolution connected to my Samsung DLP. Nearly every HD program I watch is on CBS which broadcast a 1080i native signal. If I set the STB to output 720 (which most people would recommend because it is the native resolution of the display) CBS looks 'horrible' compared to the following alternative. Set the STB to output 1080i (native resolution of the broadcast) and let the DLP do the side-conversion to 720p via the Faroudja chipset, this method looks far superior.

The problem then works in reverse. With the STB in 1080i and watching ABC (720p native), the STB performs the conversion (from 720p to 1080i) then the TV converts it again (from 1080i back to 720p) and ABC also looks 'horrible.'

Fortunately for me, I pretty much only watch CBS and NBC (1080i native) so I leave the STB set to 1080i letting my DLP side-convert to its native resolution of 720p. With the switch on the back of the STB, I almost never even bother watching 720p native shows.

Therefore, I would love to have native passthrough, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me either (due to my viewing habbits)

Mike

I have the Samsung HLN617w DLP and have pre-ordered the HR10-250 HD. It looks like I will be switching resolutions often using the up arrow on the remote or the front panel switch. Unfortunately my mother is very tech challenged and will be very confused as to which resolution to use and will probably just watch whatever setting it happens to be on.

I want to know if the SD signals will look better with the DVI output than my current Hughes HDVR2 S-video output. Any thoughts on this?
:(

[matL]

from the FAQ, I see cables are included :-) All this waiting is getting to me & I was thinking I could go buy something - to be 'ready'.



Anyone have details on the supplied cable size/ quality (subjective) that come with?
Thanks

*edit* found the types withing this post - still wondering if anyone has LENGTH and 'quality'?

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by Special_Ed21


I want to know if the SD signals will look better with the DVI output than my current Hughes HDVR2 S-video output. Any thoughts on this?
:(

The HDMI-->DVI cable will strip the audio but will keep the video signal in all its digital glory. I've heard the DVI output refered to as a "bit bucket" which means it sends a uncompressed digital signal to your display device. It certainly would be well worth a try using the DVI input on your DLP opposed to the s-video for SD channels. My bet is they'll look much better.

[k2ue]

Originally posted by Special_Ed21
I want to know if the SD signals will look better with the DVI output than my current Hughes HDVR2 S-video output. Any thoughts on this?
:(

I currently let my Samsung TS360 HD receiver scale my HDVR2 to 720p (from S-video) to drive my HLN467W. While the black level is incorrectly elevated on the HDVR2 compared to the TS360's own video, there appears to be no other issues, and the HD TiVo would not have the Black problem. I would also note that while my TS360 supports Native output I stopped using it because the HLN blanking and flashing when clicking thru stations (as it tried to scale each differently) was very annoying. Sharpness on the HLN seems to be a significant factor on SD -- I've settled on 30, since it seems to to affect HD much no matter where it's set.

So I'm planning to just let the HD TiVo output 720p, except when watching in the bedroom via a modulator.

[bkdtv]

Re-posted from another thread...

The layout on that motherboard does look darned close to the current SD series 2 in your EZ-Bracket photos. But that extra RF cannister up front is certain to be in the way if that exists on the production units too.We know that the current DirecTivo uses the Broadcom BCM702x (http://www.broadcom.com/press/article.php?pr_id=PR020507) chip for its graphics and PVR functionality. This chip supports HD, when supplied with the appropriate memory and output circuitry (which obviously the Series2 does not have). Dish Network uses the BCM702x in their Dish 921 PVR.

From this press release (http://www.broadcom.com/press/article.php?pr_id=PR040109-0) back in January, we know that the HDTV DirecTivo uses a newer-generation BCM7037 chip. Unfortunately, Broadcom doesn't provide documentation on the BCM7037.

Broadcom does provide information on the BCM7035 and BCM7038 (http://www.broadcom.com/press/article.php?pr_id=PR040107-0). The BCM7035 offers comparable functionality to the BCM7020 used in the current Series2 Tivo, but with a dedicated 3D engine. The BCM7038 offers a number of key improvements over the BCM7035, including 3/2 pull-down with automatic scene detection, built-in DVI-HDMI transmitter, an Ethernet MAC/PHY, dual USB 2.0 and dual SATA controllers, and a 3D comb filter for SD analog outputs.

It's not clear what features the BCM7037--used in the HDTV DirecTivo--is missing from the BCM7038. What is obvious: the BCM7037 in the HDTV DirecTivo is a significant step-up from the BCM702x used in the SD DirecTivo and the Dish 921 HD PVR.

Another interesting bit...

The BCM7038 product brief (http://www.broadcom.com/collateral/pb/7038-PB00-R.pdf) mentions a BCM3520 VSB/QAM demod. There is no other mention of the BCM3520 on Broadcom's web site.

The 2+year old BCM3510 is the VSB/QAM demod used in the Dish 921HD PVR. It delivers acceptable off-air reception for local signals, but doesn't equal the reception performance of the newest DirecTV HD STBs. It is at least possible that the HDTV DirecTivo uses the unannounced BCM3520 part, but it's not clear what improvements this will offer.

[Hootydog]

Originally posted by edrock200
Yes thanks to DSwallow's advice I got a CM 4228 antenna and a CM 7777 pre-amp. This combination got me the big 4, PBS and the WB in HD and I live far from the towers. My other antenna and preamp just couldn't do it. Same set up here with great results from 30 miles away from Sutro tower behind the East Bay hills.
Chappy

[midas]

What's the difference between a regular amp and a pre-amp?

[dswallow]

Originally posted by midas
What's the difference between a regular amp and a pre-amp? I can kind of answer that. ;)

Read this: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/basics.html

A weak signal traveling through a length of coax loses some of its power for every foot it travels (about 1db per 18 feet or so, depending on the cable); that is the noise floor and the signal peaks become closer together. When you get to your receiver there can be little difference between the two, and the receiver is unable to do anything with it.

For that reason, you want to amplify the signal as close to the source as you can and use a pre-amplifier that adds as little noise to the signal as possible. The job of the pre-amp is to boost the signal to offset loss down the transmission line.

The most important factor is the signal-to-noise ratio; you need a certain ratio or higher for a receiver to be able to do anything with the signal. So by amplifying as close to the antenna as you can, you have the best chance of actually improving the ratio so that it can survive any loss through the rest of the transmission system.

An amplifier (or really, a distribution amplifier) is designed to boost the signal sufficiently along the transmission path to deal with loss through splitters or longer runs of cable.

Is there any real difference beyond the usual differences in design between models and manufacturers? I don't think so -- of course those differences between models and manufacturers are important. But amplifying a signal at the receiver is practically useless since there's nothing it can do the receiver couldn't do itself; there's no loss to pre-compensate for at that point; you've already lost your signal.

The antenna's gonna get you all the signal you can get. Now the job of the pre-amp, any other amplifiers is to get as much of that signal as possible to your receiver; without decreasing or only minimally decreasing the signal-to-noise ratio.

[midas]

Thanks Doug, I can actually almost understand that :D

But of course, now we need specifics. In theory I should get a strong signal. I'm about 14 miles from the towers. Unfortunately my last HD receiver didn't have a signal meter so I can't give any real numbers. But the reception didn't seem great. I have a relatively short line to the receiver, probabably less than 30 feet. And the antenna (http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/hd7084p.pdf) itself is a monster, 131" boom and about 110" wide.

But when I tried to split the signal one time things got worse. And when I tried to buy a cheap Radio Shack amp I basically got nothing. Obviously it introduced more noise to the system.

Now maybe a better amp would have worked better. But it wasn't the cheapest one they had. But if I ever want to send the signal to more than 1 set I'll have to do something. Now, unless the guy that installed the antenna did a really lousy job, I can't imagine a 30' line would normally introduce much signal loss.

It could be a multipath issue I suppose. But there are really no large buildings behind the antenna. So the first question I suppose is what would splitting a multipathed signal do? And, if I had a receiver with a strength meter, would I see a strong signal if it's multipathed? And of course, if it is multipathed, I don't think a pre-amp would do much good.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by midas
Thanks Doug, I can actually almost understand that :D

But of course, now we need specifics. In theory I should get a strong signal. I'm about 14 miles from the towers. Unfortunately my last HD receiver didn't have a signal meter so I can't give any real numbers. But the reception didn't seem great. I have a relatively short line to the receiver, probabably less than 30 feet. And the antenna (http://www.winegard.com/offair/pdf/hd7084p.pdf) itself is a monster, 131" boom and about 110" wide.

But when I tried to split the signal one time things got worse. And when I tried to buy a cheap Radio Shack amp I basically got nothing. Obviously it introduced more noise to the system.

Now maybe a better amp would have worked better. But it wasn't the cheapest one they had. But if I ever want to send the signal to more than 1 set I'll have to do something. Now, unless the guy that installed the antenna did a really lousy job, I can't imagine a 30' line would normally introduce much signal loss.

It could be a multipath issue I suppose. But there are really no large buildings behind the antenna. So the first question I suppose is what would splitting a multipathed signal do? And, if I had a receiver with a strength meter, would I see a strong signal if it's multipathed? And of course, if it is multipathed, I don't think a pre-amp would do much good. For one thing, I'd be concerned about the cheap Radio Shack amplifier. ou saw the difference in noise specs on several amplifiers; where did the Radio Shack units fall? 2 of the 3 in that list did worse than if they weren't in line at all. :)

Do you have any FM towers nearby? Another consideration would be strong FM stations causing your preamp to clip everything because there's too much power coming in over the FM band; some preamps have a switchable FM trap; others require it be added separately.

If you have any analog stations you can receive near some of the digital channel frequencies, how do those look? Ghosty? Clear? Snowy?

That antenna has nice clean radiation plots without much rear gain at all. I suppose maybe something off in the direction you're aiming could be reflecting towards you and causing multipath problems.

If you can get to the antenna to inspect everything, this coul djust be a bad install; maybe a loose wire on the balun or bad coax connector splice, or maybe some elements bent/shorted.

Do you know if your stations are broadcasting at full power or at some lower, maybe much lower power? Do you know people in your neighborhood who can receive them well?

[midas]

Well right now I don't have a pre-amp. And the reason I got it installed was that I can't get up on the roof. It's not that it's very high or even very slanted, I'm just a woos! I had to buy one of those attachments to a leaf blower so I could clean the gutters. So the idea of ME geting up and doing any inspection just isn't going to happen.

Do I have FM towers nearby? Who knows. This is Chicago, there seem to be towers everywhere. But again, no pre-amp, so I doubt clipping would be an issue.

As far as analog stations, that's hard to tell. It's been so long since I've actually watched OTA that it's hard to compare. I would say they looked snowy to me, but there was no ghosting. In my mind that would say weak signal without multipathing. But obviously I don't really know.

I don't know if all the stations are at full power right now. But since all the major networks here are O&O, I would hope (not assume) they are. I know we had major trouble with the CBS stations because they are on channel 3. For the longest time they had to operate at very low power because it was messing up the cable systems in the area until they all moved their default box setting to channel 4. Now they are at full power. But even when they were at 25% that was my most dependable signal.

I don't know anybody else in the immediate area, but I know a lot of people that have no problem picking up any of the stations from as far away as 40 miles. This would tell me that the power levels at the stations are not the issue.

So here's the real questions. I just signed up for the $99 HD deal from D*. Part of that deal is the OTA antenna install. Now I know for a fact that the current antenna I have is better than the one they'll give me. But I figure I have about a 50/50 chance of the install being better. It's also possible that the Panasonic receiver just had bad OTA reception and the HDTivo will be much better. The $99 one is only a temp until I get that.

My initial thoughts are to first hook up the receiver and see what kind of repception I get. If it's OK, obviously the problem is solved. But if it's not, then the fun starts. Ideally I'd like to get the installer reaim and run new cables from my antenna. But I have a feeling that the installer won't want to do that. Then the decision is do I want him to install the antenna he brings?

Unfortunately that's not going to fly too well. My wife is already POed that I'm getting the HDTivo. And she was really unhappy when I put the antenna up because it's so HUGE. I guess if I could talk him into using my mast and thus taking down what I have now that would be OK.

But is is possible that a smaller antenna would actually work better? I find it hard to believe that the one I have is TOO GOOD. And I'm pretty sure the installer will be no help in making a decision. So that's why I ask the experts here :up:

[JohnA]

Wrong thread.

[Bigg]

Your antenna could be too good if you can see the tower from your house clearly. Not likely, though.

[Tom in OH]

Midas, do u have a rotor on your HD-7084P antenna?

[Larry Hutchinson]

This is the wrong thread but:

With such a large and presumably high gain antenna only 14 miles away from the towers, I would be more inclined to put in an attenuator rather than an amplifier!

And as Tom asked, do you have a rotator? A high gain antenna may need precise aiming. You might consider using a smaller antenna.

[midas]

Thanks guys. I wish I had a rotator on it. That would make life much easier and at least take care of one of the variables. I'll see what the installer says when he gets here Monday, although like I said, I don't expect him to know much.

[Tom in OH]

just curious if u'd tried to tweak the direction for a better signal which u could do easily with a rotor. I think we'll all be curious to hear what happens on Mon.

That gigantic (high gain) antenna should be pulling in a strong signal from 14 miles. I bet it's been moved by those strong Chicago winds or maybe there's a short in the line as Doug suggested. I almost bought the same model Winegard(HD7084P) to pull in ota from almost 70miles but decided to go with the largest model at RS cuz they had it in stock and on sale at the local RS store (VU-190XR) 160 in.

[midas]

I've waffled on getting a rotor for a long time. If could get on the roof and do it myself I probably would have done it a long time ago. But paying someone to do it really raises the price. I just figure that once I find the sweet spot I'll never have to move it again.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by midas
I've waffled on getting a rotor for a long time. If could get on the roof and do it myself I probably would have done it a long time ago. But paying someone to do it really raises the price. I just figure that once I find the sweet spot I'll never have to move it again. Well, for that $60-$90 you can actually find the sweet spot without numerous trips up and down a ladder to move the antenna, go look at the signals, take notes on reception quality/strength, move the antenna again... ;)

Plus with the rotator, you'll be able to play around when there's a good troposheric forecast and see what else you can pick up.

http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo.html
http://www.iprimus.ca/~hepburnw/tropo_wam.html

[midas]

Oh I agree, if it were only $60-90, I'd do it. But to have someone come out and do it for me would probably cost at least another $100. Now we're talking about some serious coin.

[Bigg]

IF you can get on the roof to move the antenna can't you put a rotor on too???

[midas]

I can't get up on the roof at all, that's the problem. Oh well, the installer just left and it was an interesting experience to say the least. But I throw the details in the $99 deal thread.

[Toeside]

Since HD programming info is in the FAQ, then I guess it is OK to ask this here...

Has anyone contacted DirecTV about Bravo HD availability?

Craig

[hongcho]

The 8-ball says, "ask again in May after the 7S is operational". :p

Hong.

[Toeside]

Originally posted by hongcho
The 8-ball says, "ask again in May after the 7S is operational". :p

Hong.

I just received an email back from them. They can't comment since it isn't announced, but my request will be forwarded to the programming people...

Oh well, maybe sometime. Significant Others is a great show....I'd like to watch all TV in HDTV.

[robnalex]

Do I need a satellite C kit? I currently have a 3-year-old elliptical dish and receive HD on my SAT-HD100, which I assume is pointed at 101/119. Apparently the C Kit will add 110. What exactly will I be missing if I don't add the C Kit to get 110?

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by robnalex
Do I need a satellite C kit? I currently have a 3-year-old elliptical dish and receive HD on my SAT-HD100, which I assume is pointed at 101/119. Apparently the C Kit will add 110. What exactly will I be missing if I don't add the C Kit to get 110?

just to be sure, tune to channel 99 and check if u can see a DirecTv symbol.

[Baracuda]

midas-

I also live in Chicago...North side along the lakefront.
I had gotten on that directv customer retention deal for a HD receiver. had it installed.
Well, I have a midrise building that is in direct line to the Hancock building (and in line with the Sears also). The off-air antenna they installed did me no good.
Bought an amp'd antenna to see if I could do better. With Too Much dicking around, I was able to get 5, 7, 9, 11, 32, 50 (others too, but those are all I cared about) But, the position for some channels knocked out the others. Never could get 2 in at all. Meaning I would have to be constantly moving the antenna to get all the available channels I listed.
That said, I find HD at this point to be quite a disappointment and as of today, got DirecTV to take the whole thing back. Much of the off air stuff is in 4:3 resolution, not 16:9. The DirecTV HD channels come in good and look very good, but honestly, not so amazing compared to the general great quality of standard res Directv. To me there simply isn't enough HD stuff that I want to even watch. Also, what the heck was I thinking, thinking that I could look at non-tivo'd TV. What? Watch shows live and on time? No way :-)

As to the Upcoming HD DirecTiVo....At this point, not even close to being worth $999,at least to me.
The experience was educational just the same. My longing for HD is now on hold until there is much more HD content available.

[midas]

I guess it all depends on what you like to watch. I watch a lot of stuff that's already in HD so the HDTivo will be of big value to me. Of course, I already had an HD receiver that I sold for $350. I'll sell the Hughes I got on the $99 for at least a $200 profit. And I'll also sell my current DirecTivo for at least $150. So if add that all up it's at least $700. With the $100 discount from VE my end cost will be about $200 and that includes all the antenna work I got D* to do last week. Well worth it to me.

BTW, I'm around Belmont and Cumberland so my area is much more conducive to good reception.

[Baracuda]

well financially, you're certainly making out. And yep, it depends on what you watch. Glad you're getting more use out of it than I did. I know DirecTV is working on more HD content and I wouldn't be surprised to find myself with an HD DirevTivo before the year is up, or early next year....if enough has been added.
Thanks

[fishracer]

Midas, I also live along Belmont in Chicago. What antenna do you use?

[neilaevans]

Feldon,
I'm sorry if this has been covered before (I didn't search) but I just wanted to confirm that there is NO optical cable included with the HDTivo. You may want to change the faq accordingly.

[Joe Siegler]

Originally posted by feldon23
Please let me know if there are any mistakes/oversights in this FAQ.


Very cool piece of info. One small nit about the shows that are offered.

UPN offers Enterprise and Jake 2.0 in HDTV.

UPN canceled Jake 2.0 awhile ago, and hasn't been aired in a few months.

[midas]

Originally posted by fishracer
Midas, I also live along Belmont in Chicago. What antenna do you use?

Well at this point that's a very complicated question. First read this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1866925#post1866925) message and then read this (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1872455#post1872455) one.

[Bigg]

D8 should offer INHD and INHD2, currently only for cable people. I don't have an HDTV yet, as the HDTV situation in hartford-NH is not terribly pretty.

[bakerkj]

Does the DirectTV HDTV Tivo support ethernet via a USB adapter for it's phone calls?

Thanks,
Ken

[caruthers]

Originally posted by bakerkj
Does the DirectTV HDTV Tivo support ethernet via a USB adapter for it's phone calls?

Thanks,
Ken

There are 2 USB ports for "future" use

[bakerkj]

Does this mean I will have to get a land line again? I heard somewhere that it can get all of its programming data over the satellite. The only thing you need the phone for is to purchase movies...

Is this true?

-- Ken

[BrettStah]

Ken, currently software updates and the initial setup require a phoneline. Future software updates AFTER the next big update (4.x) will most likely also come via satellite. You will get "reminders" after awhile letting you know that the call didn't go through. Pressing SELECT on the remote clears this reminder, and you don't lose any functionality.

So see if you can go through the initial setup at a friend's house (or maybe at the store that you buy it from, if you buy it locally). And order your PPV via the web instead of with your remote, and that isn't an issue either. Then when you find out that the software has been updated, bring your Tivo to a friend's house with a phoneline, and let it dowload the update. Then no future phone calls should be required.

[dswallow]

I believe at least one person successfully used PPP over serial to setup and install a unit. SO if that is the case, and you can deal with supporting PPP over serial in your environment, you may get away without a phone line at all.

[MGreen]

Hi all, Ive posted a quickie review if anyones interested, So far my customer couldnt be happier with his HR10-250

http://www.electronicdecor.com/reviews/hdtv-tivo.htm

[mag249]

I currently have a round dual LNB dish. I am not going to get the triple until I receive my unit. I assume that I can connect everything (with the understanding that I will not get certain channels) as I would with the triple without damaging my unit? Once I get the triple I simply go through guided setup again?

Thanks guys (and gals) for all the great info on this BBS, it has been very useful in getting me up the learning curve.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by mag249
I currently have a round dual LNB dish. I am not going to get the triple until I receive my unit. I assume that I can connect everything (with the understanding that I will not get certain channels) as I would with the triple without damaging my unit? Once I get the triple I simply go through guided setup again?

Thanks guys (and gals) for all the great info on this BBS, it has been very useful in getting me up the learning curve. Yes, you'll identify what sort of satellite dish you have when running through guided setup. Later when you get the 3-LNB dish, you will just rerun guided setup to change the satellite dish selection.

[hongcho]

I guess I will just ask it here instead of creating a new thread since it could be a FAQ...

So, when watching live, is there a way to go back to the previous channel of the same virtual tuner? I know there is a way to change between the virtual tuners, but I was wondering if there was a way.

Hong.

[mercurial]

Originally posted by hongcho
I guess I will just ask it here instead of creating a new thread since it could be a FAQ...

So, when watching live, is there a way to go back to the previous channel of the same virtual tuner? I know there is a way to change between the virtual tuners, but I was wondering if there was a way.


Doesn't "Enter" function as a Last-Channel button? Not sure what the interaction is with two tuners. On the SAT-T60s, I always remember it wasn't quite what I expected.

[steveru]

It's been a while since I have been on here to check updates, so please forgive me if I appear to beating a dead horse, but I for one will be very disappointed with TiVo if they do not offer a stand alone HD unit. I spent months of time researching the "perfect fit" HD receiver for my monitor and don't want to have to settle for the unit that comes with DirecTv. I have been a loyal TiVo fan since year one, but, if someone else beats TiVo to the punch on a standalone unit, I will be first in line to switch from TiVo.:mad:

[acroswel]

Originally posted by steveru
It's been a while since I have been on here to check updates, so please forgive me if I appear to beating a dead horse, but I for one will be very disappointed with TiVo if they do not offer a stand alone HD unit. I spent months of time researching the "perfect fit" HD receiver for my monitor and don't want to have to settle for the unit that comes with DirecTv. I have been a loyal TiVo fan since year one, but, if someone else beats TiVo to the punch on a standalone unit, I will be first in line to switch from TiVo.:mad:

Zenith has had a standalone HD recorder out for months now:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00009RF6G/104-6910179-8241524?v=glance

[BrettStah]

Check out the AVS Forum - HDTV Recorders Forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=42) for more details on current HDTV recorders. There are a couple of standalones, but the last time I delved into them, they were lacking considerably when compared to Tivos. You can't watch a recording while something else is being recorded (deal-breaker for me), can only record one thing at a time, only buffers live TV when you press a specific button on the remote, only 8 hours of space, etc. Some/all may have been addressed via software/firmware updates or newer models, so check that forum for the most recent info...

[feldon23]

Originally posted by steveru
I for one will be very disappointed with TiVo if they do not offer a stand alone HD unit.
No such beast, nor will there likely ever be.

If you are just recording off rabbit ears, then look at the Zenith and other HD OTA recording options.

If you are a cable TV customer, then I expect TiVo to introduce a universal HDTiVo for cable using the OpenCable CableCard standard within the year.

[hongcho]

> Doesn't "Enter" function as a Last-Channel button?

That worked. Thanks.

Hong.

[Todd76]

Hong,

ENTER doesn't actually do exactly what you asked (previous channel on the same tuner). It will switch to the previous channel, which could be the same tuner or the other tuner. At least that's how it works on my DSR6000.

[BBobley]

Feldon23,

Here's a possible update to your FAQ:

The Tivo manual (p. 30) indicates that by selecting the "panel" mode with the Ratio button on the remote, you can letterbox 16 x 9 material. This is very useful if you have a 4 x 3 HDTV display. But I think I now have confirmation that this feature doesn't work when your output mode is 1080i. It works fine with 480p output. I can't test 720p, because my display doesn't do 720p. I don't know if this is a bug or an oversight or what.

See this thread for more info:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173377

Brett

[hongcho]

> ENTER doesn't actually do exactly what you asked (previous channel on the same tuner). It will switch to the previous channel, which could be the same tuner or the other tuner. At least that's how it works on my DSR6000.

Yeah, I noticed that. But that's good enough for me.

Thanks.

Hong.

[kcwhitney]

I have an SD level DTV Tivo, and will get the HD version as soon as it gets in stock around here. I want to use both in the same room. My question involves remotes. Will there be confusion between the units, or can I specifiy one remote for the SD unit and another remote for the HD?

[tivoupgrade]

Originally posted by kcwhitney
I have an SD level DTV Tivo, and will get the HD version as soon as it gets in stock around here. I want to use both in the same room. My question involves remotes. Will there be confusion between the units, or can I specifiy one remote for the SD unit and another remote for the HD?

Haven't tried that yet, but it shouldn't be a problem. I will be trying it this weekend, I have a Hughes GXCEBOT and an HR10-250 in the same wrong; you can change the remote codes for these units by just going to the System information screen and just selecting "1" "2" or "3" on our remote, from what I recall...

[BrettStah]

Here's how to use two Tivos in the same room:
http://customersupport.tivo.com/tivoknowbase/root/public/tv1087.htm

[stugrief]

I've just hooked up my HR10-250. I am using an HDMI connection to a Pioneer Elite plasma. I have 2 satellite inputs and an off-air input connected to the HR10-250. Everything works fine when I am watching satellite stations: both the video and audio signals are passed to the Pioneer through the HDMI cable. But when I tune to an off-air station, only video comes through. No sound.

Any ideas why this may be happening?

[jautor]

I'm guessing that your Pioneer isn't supporting Dolby Digital over HDMI... You can change the TiVo's audio output to be PCM (haven't tried this to see how it handles ATSC streams).

And if that doesn't work, run the analog L/R audio to the plasma, and keep the Toslink for your receiver...

Jeff

[bloozeman]

Originally posted by feldon23
No such beast, nor will there likely ever be.

If you are just recording off rabbit ears, then look at the Zenith and other HD OTA recording options.

If you are a cable TV customer, then I expect TiVo to introduce a universal HDTiVo for cable using the OpenCable CableCard standard within the year.

Okay now I'm bummed. I haven't checked on the status of the OTA standalone unit that Tivo debuted at CES last year since I knew they were planning on releasing it after the HDDirectTivo unit. I've held off buying a HD STB because I was waiting for the Tivo unit. I have no desire to pay my current DBS vendor (E*) nor D* for HD programming and I also have no desire to dump E* for D* SD programming.

Why do you think they'll do a cable version but not a standalone? They obviously already had a prototype and could use the same ATSC tuners in the one they have released now for DirectTV.

-Ray

[dswallow]

Originally posted by bloozeman
Why do you think they'll do a cable version but not a standalone? They obviously already had a prototype and could use the same ATSC tuners in the one they have released now for DirectTV. TiVo's said many times they don't want to be in the hardware business. So a manufacturer has to consider the market worthy of producing TiVo's reference design and marketing and supporting it. I think that's mostly the reason. People don't really consider OTA-only as a complete solution for anyone, so it's not perceived to have a big market. And further since there's pretty small penetration of ATSC receivers in general, is that much smaller.

The promises of what the CableCard standard will bring in terms of being able to use it with most any cable system is a significantly different potential market. So I think there'll be much more interest from manufacturer partners than there possibly could be with OTA-only.

[gilcart]

Guys,

I am anticipating my arrival Monday, getting ready...

Any ways I have a Bose 3-2-1 system, with Optical in, should I be using that connection with my HDTV TiVo? If so I have to pick up a cable tomorrow....

Any help would be appreciated, then, I then run the DVI to my Samsung 4235edtv for 780p......

Also, with my Bose, I will run a S - cable to my plasma for DVD playback, correct?

Thanks much

[Tom in OH]

That sounds right Gil. At this page: http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/FLATPANELTVplasma/TV_FLATPANELTVplasma_SPN4235.htm

it shows your Samsung plasma will accept 480i/p, 720p, & 1080i but then at the bottom of the page it shows only 480i/p & 1080i. You might wanna try setting the HDTivo to output 720p and 1080i to see which looks best. What's the native format for your model? If it's 720p, that would be the best choice.

[gilcart]

Thanks!!!

Yes, in my manual it says my plasma is best for 780p so that is whay i will try, only the eyes will tell!!

[Tom in OH]

It says 780p? or do u mean 720p? It looks like a Very nice tv. The HDTivo should look fantastic! Enjoy. My HDTivo should be in within a week or so. I can hardly wait. If I hadn't already shaved my head, I'd be pullin' my hair out :p

[gilcart]

Meant 720p sorry, it was sat night and a beer was in my hand

[david(dallas)]

Sorry if this has been asked. I did a search and found that their is a stand alone HD TIVO there.
But now that the DirecTV HD-TIVO is out (and I'm very disappointed in the HD PQ versus my Sony HD200), will there be any other companies coming out with a HD-TIVO? Or is DirecTV the only version due to whatever reasons?

[leftcoastdave]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by david(dallas)
[B]....and I'm very disappointed in the HD PQ versus my Sony HD200...

I too was disappointed in the PQ of the 10-250 compared with my DTC100. I connected the DTC100 to the VGA port of my Pioneer Elite 620HD and had to connect the 10-250 to the component port using the supplied component cable because the Tivo has no VGA out.

On the Elite, the Pioneer locks the video controls and optimizes the color correction on the VGA port but does not do so on the component inputs.

When I first looked at the HD Tivo picture it was very dark compared to the DTC100. I initially suspected the supplied component cable was low quality but after tinkering with the TV's settings, I got the image to look a lot better. I had to raise the black levels substantially, increased the contrast slightly, and lowered the color setting a few notches. I have the sharpness, SVM, and tone controls all turned off.

I am going to take another look when I can flip between DirecTV and Expressvu to see how the PQ matches up on common programming, but right now it looks a lot better than it did initially.

[steveru]

Originally posted by feldon23
No such beast, nor will there likely ever be.

If you are just recording off rabbit ears, then look at the Zenith and other HD OTA recording options.

If you are a cable TV customer, then I expect TiVo to introduce a universal HDTiVo for cable using the OpenCable CableCard standard within the year.

The standalone units that are available don't cut it for me. And, I have DirecTv so the universal units for cable won't work for me. So, I guess I will be watching Replay to see if they come out with one. I hate to dump TiVo, but will in a heartbeat if Replay comes out with a standalone unit.

[MichaelK]

huh?

If you have Directv just get the HD Directivo with an OTA antenna- its out now?

Supposedly D* has significant plans for HD in the next year or 2 so the content will only get better.

[steveru]

MickaelK,

Well, as I said earlier, less than a year ago, I did months of research to pair up the perfect HD receiver with my HD Monitor. I have already dumped over $1000 into the receiver and it would be a waist of my hard earned money (not to mention the time and effort that went into pairing up the perfect combination of receiver and monitor) to "just get the HD Directivo".

The perils of being on the bleeding edge, I guess.....

[MichaelK]

Bleeding edge can hurt...

I think its cheapest though just to bite the bullet and get the HD Tivo- the standalone units would probably cost the same as the price of a HDTivo minus selling your current box on ebay.

of course you might not get the perfect match though...

[chickenscratch]

I have to subscribe to the HD package to get CBSHDW (81)?

That makes no sense.

I pay for HBO, so I get HBOHD.
I pay for local channels, so I should get local channels HD, or at least the closest to it I can get.

Yes, I am in a CBS O&O market.

Am I the only one who complained to DirectTV about this?

[dswallow]

Originally posted by chickenscratch
I have to subscribe to the HD package to get CBSHDW (81)?

That makes no sense.

I pay for HBO, so I get HBOHD.
I pay for local channels, so I should get local channels HD, or at least the closest to it I can get.

Yes, I am in a CBS O&O market.

Am I the only one who complained to DirectTV about this? CBD HD is part of local channels (or distant networks), not part of the HD package; some have reported only having the HD package and being in the O&O area and getting CBS HD turned on, but the HD package is not required. Local channels or distant network CBS is supposed to be.

[chickenscratch]

But I couldn't past the person at DirecTV.

What is the magic key phrase to get this channel?

He said he checked elegibility and I am not eligible (again, I am, I am in San Jose).

What do I have to say to get this turned on?

Thanks for the help.

[chickenscratch]

Quick follow up.

I was directly told I don't get 81 unless I get the HD package. Obviously this was incorrect. I'm just asking for a phrase to say to get past this with DirecTV.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by chickenscratch
Quick follow up.

I was directly told I don't get 81 unless I get the HD package. Obviously this was incorrect. I'm just asking for a phrase to say to get past this with DirecTV.
OK, apparently the HD package is an official way to get it, too. But if you read DirecTV's own page about it, it's clearly "part of the local channels package" too.

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/cbs_hd.html


If you go to http://directvdnseligibility.decisionmark.com/app/AddressEntry.asp, you only see KPIX listed in the CBS stations when entering your address, right? If there's another one, then you need a waiver. But if KPIX is the only one, then you only need DirecTV to fix their problem. Supposedly there is a group of CSR's specifically handling CBS HD and eligibility; ask to speak to one of them if the first CSR can't help you.

[chickenscratch]

Thank you very much Doug.

It turns out that all the CSR has to do is try to add the channel (81 in my case), and the computer will reject it if you cannot have it.

The CBS HD CSR I talked to said that my area was blanket waivered, but that didn't always mean anything, he'd try to add it and the computer would act as a final arbiter.

The computer allowed it, and I am in business. Too bad it didn't happen when I first called, CBS isn't in HDTV at the moment.

So, the secret passphrase in the future may be simply to attempt to cajole the CSR into trying to add it.

Thanks again Doug.

[jjmpeters]

Originally posted by feldon23
[What hardware do I need from DirecTV?


http://feldoncentral.com/TiVo/direcTVmultiswitchHDTiVo2x4_thumb.gif (http://feldoncentral.com/TiVo/direcTVmultiswitchHDTiVo2x4.gif)
Using a 2xX multiswitch to provide the 101 satellite to certain receivers and still having 2 outputs which can see all 3 satellites (101/110/119).[/B]


I want to feed the dual tuners on the HR10-250, the duals on my SD DirecTiVo, and two other DirecTV receivers. I've got the dish with the integrated multiswitch. Can I take two of the feeds off of this dish and run it into my external 4x4 multiswitch so I can now have 6 feeds? Or must it be a 2x4 like in the picture from the FAQ here?

Thx.

[MCodanti]

Originally posted by jjmpeters
I want to feed the dual tuners on the HR10-250, the duals on my SD DirecTiVo, and two other DirecTV receivers. I've got the dish with the integrated multiswitch. Can I take two of the feeds off of this dish and run it into my external 4x4 multiswitch so I can now have 6 feeds? Or must it be a 2x4 like in the picture from the FAQ here?

Thx.

That should work just fine, just make sure that the HR10-250 gets two straight from the dish, and that you tell the SD DirecTiVos that you only have a single LNB with two cables.

[jjmpeters]

Thanks MCodanti

Another question. My 4x4 has 2 ports labeled as Sat A In 13v and 18 V, and 2 ports labeled as Sat B In 13v and 18 V.

Which two of the four ports should I hook up to?

[dswallow]

Originally posted by jjmpeters
Thanks MCodanti

Another question. My 4x4 has 2 ports labeled as Sat A In 13v and 18 V, and 2 ports labeled as Sat B In 13v and 18 V.

Which two of the four ports should I hook up to?
You want to feed two signals to the Sat A inputs; then the outputs of this 4x4 multiswitch will distribute the 101° satellite signals to any/all of the 4 tuners connected to the outputs.

[darinp2]

Sorry if this is an obvious question, but in looking through the posts I've seen a lot of talk around this, but haven't seen a definitive answer.

If I use a 5x8 switch to wire 2 lines to one HR10-250, 2 lines to another HR10-250 and one line to a DTC-100, do I need to worry about conflicts? I think that the answer is, "Yes, I need to worry about conflicts if one receiver is trying to select something on 110 and one on 119, but not if they are on the same LNB." However, I'm not sure and figured I should find out before I consider buying another HR10-250. Also, years ago I thought there was a limitation about watching different channels in different rooms and then there was a limit of 2. Is that limitation now gone and down to the LNB level (or was it never there)? That is, can you now watch 8 different channels at one time with a 5x8 switch and 8 receivers?

Thanks,
Darin

[dswallow]

Originally posted by darinp2
Sorry if this is an obvious question, but in looking through the posts I've seen a lot of talk around this, but haven't seen a definitive answer.

If I use a 5x8 switch to wire 2 lines to one HR10-250, 2 lines to another HR10-250 and one line to a DTC-100, do I need to worry about conflicts? I think that the answer is, "Yes, I need to worry about conflicts if one receiver is trying to select something on 110 and one on 119, but not if they are on the same LNB." However, I'm not sure and figured I should find out before I consider buying another HR10-250. Also, years ago I thought there was a limitation about watching different channels in different rooms and then there was a limit of 2. Is that limitation now gone and down to the LNB level (or was it never there)? That is, can you now watch 8 different channels at one time with a 5x8 switch and 8 receivers?
Darin, you're probably remembering WAY back before DirecTV had multiswitches and they sold two different 18" dish configurations, one with an LNB with a single output, and one with an LNB with two outputs. The latter was the most they had, so you were limited to two receivers without installing another dish.

The 5x8 multiswitch provides 8 completely independent outputs to feed tuners with; there will be no conflicts or limitations at any tuner.

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by darinp2


If I use a 5x8 switch to wire 2 lines to one HR10-250, 2 lines to another HR10-250 and one line to a DTC-100, do I need to worry about conflicts?

Thanks,
Darin

Be sure to use a "cascadeable" multiswitch such as the Terk

http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=&PROD=SPBMS58

[steeler]

Does anyone know when 4.0.1.b will be available for the HR10-250? I would really like to get the USB Wireless Connectivity I enjoy with my series 2 SD Tivo

[Joe Q]

Just a clarification please.

When I was getting ready to sell my DISH 921 HD DVR and get the HD TIVO,
folks were saying that the HD TIVO had one up on the 921 because the HD TIVO had dual OTA tuners.

Did I get incorrect info?

My now sold 921 had ONE OTA input and TWO Satellite inputs.

The HD TIVO that I am now in the middle of hooking up has ONE OTA input and TWO Satellite inputs.


Not a big deal because I have an IR switch for my two OTA UHF roof antennas but just wanted to make sure that this model of the HD TIVO is supposed to only have ONE OTA input.

Thanks,
Joe

[BrettStah]

Joe Q, the OTA input is split internally inside of the HD-Tivo.

[Joe Q]

Originally posted by BrettStah
Joe Q, the OTA input is split internally inside of the HD-Tivo.

Okay, now you really lost me.

What is split?

I have 2 UHF antennas which point to 2 different cities so I can get the digital stations from either city.
I currently do that with my dual tuner PC HDTV card.

[BrettStah]

The HD-Tivo has one input for OTA, and that one input is split internally. You will need to look into combining your two different cables from your two antennas into a single input.

[Joe Q]

Originally posted by BrettStah
The HD-Tivo has one input for OTA, and that one input is split internally. You will need to look into combining your two different cables from your two antennas into a single input.


I have been fooling with OTA digitalfor 3-4 years now so I have a petty good idea of what I am doing.


You can not just combine 2 antennas as the frequencies tend to cancel themselves out. It can be done if you put attennuators that notch out chunkcs of frequencies around the stations you don't get.

In my case that won't work because between DC and Baltimore several are very close to each other. EG. I get a channel 39 from DC and 38 from Baltimore.
Guess what - 38 is CBS who is the HD leader
Would not do to lose that station:)

For the past 2+ years, I have been using a MYHD PC card that accepts dual RF inputs and worrks seamlessly in the program guide. The SW is about as simple to use as a TIVO and I have 'unlimted' disk space since it is PC based.
Besides, I can dump the recordings out to my D-VHS.
BTW, the antenna RF switch which is IR controlled via my remote that I mentioned is hooked up AFTER the MYHD card.

I probably will not even use the OTA capability on the HD TIVO because of what I said about my MYHD PC card and not use up that valuable 250 GB disk on the HD TIVO.


I was only curious about all the great reports about the tuner in the HD TIVO and wanted to see if it was true because I have 3 troublesome channels from DC and Bmore.
I got confused when hooking up because I only saw a single RF connector for OTA.




[/i]Okay to the point cause no one is explaining to me what 'splitting internally' means.[/i]

Is this internal split actually splitting the 8VSB signal from the NTSC signal so you get the digital and analog stations so that the TIVO shows the digital stations and the analogie stations?

If so, then I guess calling that a dual tuner system is a play on words and I have no use for wasting disk space on analogue stations on the HD tivo.

Please enlighten me.


Thanks,
Joe

[BrettStah]

The single OTA ATSC input is internally split to feed two tuners inside. I don't know how else to word it. The HD-Tivo does not receive nor record NTSC at all.

[Joe Q]

Originally posted by BrettStah
The single OTA ATSC input is internally split to feed two tuners inside. I don't know how else to word it. The HD-Tivo does not receive nor record NTSC at all.

Sorry for being so dense. I get it now.

My problem was a mindset from 3+ years of using OTA PC HDTV cards and OTA HD STB's which supported signals from 2 antennas on dual RF connections,BUT only tuned to a single channel at a time.

That was what I had stuck in my brain as dual tuners.
Those accepted dual inputs but only a single channel cold be tuned to.

The TIVO analogy is like PIP on a TV where the TIVO tunes to 2 different stations on the same feed.

Sorry for the confusion. Sometimes once I get an idea in my head as to how something should work, I don't see the obvious.

I appreciate your not losing your patience with me.

Joe, Sheepeshly signing off.

[timatraw]

Will the HD Tivo be able to record OTA HD shows with an antenna hookup?
Tim

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by timatraw
Will the HD Tivo be able to record OTA HD shows with an antenna hookup?
Tim

yes, it can even record two different HD channels at the same time from your antenna.

[dreaux]

Is it my imagination but there is not on/off button on my HD tivo remote.
I see one for the TV but not one for the HD tivo. Is it now to stay on all the time?
Jim

[jjmpeters]

Originally posted by dreaux
Is it my imagination but there is not on/off button on my HD tivo remote.
I see one for the TV but not one for the HD tivo. Is it now to stay on all the time?
Jim


TiVo's always need to be on, or they won't be able to record programs. I even have mine on a small UPS since it takes several minutes for it to synch up with the satellites if there is a power loss.

[arxaw]

Originally posted by dreaux
Is it my imagination but there is not on/off button on my HD tivo remote.
I see one for the TV but not one for the HD tivo. Is it now to stay on all the time?
Jim Most satellite and digicable boxes when "off" are really still on, and consume roughly the same amount of power either way. Only the output is turned off. The only way to turn them completely off is to remove the power source. But most will have to reboot and re-acquire program guides when power is reapplied, so it's best to leave them on all the time.

[vikesman]

I am looking at possibly getting the HD Tivo. My question is: I have also looked at some of the DVD Burners that have Tivo with them (Pioneer Elite), Tivo Basic comes free with them, and you can pay to upgrade to Tivo + with season pass. If I get the new HD Tivo, will Tivo basic be free there as well. I am already a Direct customer, but as of yet to experience Tivo.

Thanks.

paul

[feldon23]

Absolutely not. Only the DVD recorders have this VCR-like functionality. All other TiVos require full-fledged TiVo service with Season Passes and Wishlists. TiVo Basic has nothing of what makes a TiVo a TiVo.

I really don't think you oughta worry about $4.95/mo TiVo service on a $999 TiVo. :)

[dreaux]

Originally posted by jjmpeters
TiVo's always need to be on, or they won't be able to record programs. I even have mine on a small UPS since it takes several minutes for it to synch up with the satellites if there is a power loss.

Not true. My old Sony sat-60 has an on/off button on it. The off botton puts the tivo in a standby mode. Tivo will record in- on or standby mode.

[dreaux]

Is it worth getting a Monster Hdmi to Dvi cable. Will it make a difference over the cable that came with the Hdtv Tivo?

[DVRaholic]

Originally posted by dreaux
Is it worth getting a Monster Hdmi to Dvi cable. Will it make a difference over the cable that came with the Hdtv Tivo?

No difference whatsoever !! I just returned my monster Hdmi/Dvi cable to crutchfield. I was hoping there would be an improvment over the supplied Hdmi cable, but unfortunatly there is NO Imporovment at all on the HdTivo with the Monster cable. :(

[typrsn]

Feldon,

I have a Phase III dish. Up until last night I had a 4X8 switch connected to it and received all programming just fine. After installing a Spaun SMS5801 5X8 switch, I lost all DirecTV HD channels and now some of the channels are scrambled. Is there a compatibility issue?

[Marty M]

This is probably a dumb question but am hoping someone can confirm that I've got this right.

Assume you're recording an HD show. Is this correct -- the HR10-250 will record in HD even if you have selected 480i on the front of the unit -- and are watching that show or some other recording using 480i. Bottom line is that no matter what you've selected on the front of the unit for format, an HD show will always be recorded in HD.

So the unit records in HD and then you select the format for output. (Which suggests there is some 'universal' HD signal -- I don't know how else to describe it -- and the unit can then output it in any of the formats. Rather than having the unit "set" to the correct format in advance.)

Then you have the option to play it back in HD (say 1080i) or in SD (480i) to record to DVD or VCR.

Have I got that right?

Thanks for any responses.

[Joe Q]

Originally posted by Marty M
This is probably a dumb question but am hoping someone can confirm that I've got this right.

Bottom line is that no matter what you've selected on the front of the unit for format, an HD show will always be recorded in HD.



Only dumb questions are the ones not asked.

The TIVO records the datastream in the native format ie. NO preprcessing is done on the data except to do whatever encryption they do on the disk.



The 480I/P,720P,1080I is all done post processing during Playback so your bottom line is 100% correct.

[Wisegoat]

There are filters on the Spaun switch that need to be set. They should look like small, blue, flathead screws. I believe you need to set them to 22hz. I am not around mine right now, or I would tell you precisely. Go to Spaun's website, www.spaun.com and look for the settings. I had the same issue initially.

[typrsn]

Originally posted by pornogoat
There are filters on the Spaun switch that need to be set. They should look like small, blue, flathead screws. I believe you need to set them to 22hz. I am not around mine right now, or I would tell you precisely. Go to Spaun's website, www.spaun.com and look for the settings. I had the same issue initially.

After going to the site, it looks like the switch is not compatible. I will have to upgrade to the SMS5802. I have HD. The SMS5801 is only compatible with SD.

[KenW]

How some links to information about antennas?

Like:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html

[Budget_HT]

Originally posted by typrsn
After going to the site, it looks like the switch is not compatible. I will have to upgrade to the SMS5802. I have HD. The SMS5801 is only compatible with SD.

I have the 5801 and it works fine for HD with the older 18x24 3-LNB dish with the Sat B/C combiner. The old dish provides direct outputs from the 110 and 119 LNBs, eliminating the need for the 22 kHz tones to lock the newer 18x20 Phase III integrated multiswitch outputs to 110/119.

So, the 5801 is not SD-only. You can also buy external 22 kHz injectors to make the older multiswitches (like the 5801) work with the Phase III integrated dish.

[typrsn]

Originally posted by Budget_HT
I have the 5801 and it works fine for HD with the older 18x24 3-LNB dish with the Sat B/C combiner. The old dish provides direct outputs from the 110 and 119 LNBs, eliminating the need for the 22 kHz tones to lock the newer 18x20 Phase III integrated multiswitch outputs to 110/119.

So, the 5801 is not SD-only. You can also buy external 22 kHz injectors to make the older multiswitches (like the 5801) work with the Phase III integrated dish.

Thanks Dave. Where might I find the external 22 kHz injectors you speak of?

[KenW]

Attached is a picture of my Spaun. I must be missing the adjustment?

[Budget_HT]

Originally posted by typrsn
Thanks Dave. Where might I find the external 22 kHz injectors you speak of?

Here is one example of the tone injectors: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=SP22TGEN

KenW:

Your Spaun is a 5801 just like mine. I noticed that you have no cables feeding the B-side inputs on the right side of the multiswitch. That is where the cables from the 110/119 satellites must be connected if you have an older 18x24 3-LNB dish. If you have the newer Phase III 18x20 integrated dish and multiswitch, then you would either need to add two tone injectors (like the example above) or change to a different multiswitch model that has the 22 kHz tone injectors built in. These are typically called cascadable, although there are older models without 22 kHz injectors that also carried that label.

Either way, you MUST have FOUR cables from your dish to the 5x8 multiswitch to get all three satellites. The way yours is currently set up, you will only get the 101 satellite (including any HD channels that might be carried on the 101 satellite).

[ahartman]

I did a couple searches and read quite a few threads and didn't see this answered anywhere.

Can I use an unactivated HD TiVo to pull in OTA HD channels? I won't be able to get D* out here to swap out my dish until next week (and I won't activate it until I know I can see all 3 birds) but I'd like to start getting an HD picture - I realize I may not have any PVR functionality and I'm okay with that - just want the OTA tuner part.

Sorry if i missed the answer somewhere - I did try to look, I promise!

Thanks in advance!

[BrettStah]

ahartman, according to the user manual for the HD-Tivo, you'll have no recording capabilities, but will be able to pause and switch back and forth between both OTA tuners.

[ahartman]

Thanks Brett - I haven't even opened the box yet so I hadn't looked at the manual.

Much appreciated!

[duffin]

I've tried the back door of Zero + ThumbsUp to no avail to determine where the storage stands on my HD for recorded programs.

Does this backdoor work on the HR10-250?

[tlrowley]

I have a question about a Season Pass - I don't have my HDTivo, yet , and I'm coming from Replaytv - I'm new to Tivo, so please be gentle.

My local CBS station (KOVR Sacramento) operates on a 7pm Prime time for it's SD signal, and 8pm for the HD. That means for most 8pm programs, there's an SD version on first. For example, tonight at 7pm we get "Joan of Arcadia" in SD and the same episode, in HD, at 8pm on the same channel. Obviously, I want to ensure that I get the HD version recorded in my Season Pass. Am I going to have a problem with this? Can the SP be configured to ignore the 7pm showing, and catch the 8pm?

Thanks for your help,
Tracey

[duffin]

Season Pass is channel specific.

The HD is one channel and the SD is another in your case. You should have no problem.

[tlrowley]

Thanks for the reply, duffin, but maybe I wasn't clear. There are two identical episodes, SD at 7 , HD at 8 , on the same channel - 13-1 (stupid, I know). Obviously, I'm concerned that the season pass will find the first, SD, one, and ignore the second.

Tracey

[duffin]

Nope, it will record both. It will also record up to the # of episodes you indicate in the setup.

Another option is the Manual approach to setup time, days and channel. I do this for series like "Joan."

[tlrowley]

Okay, recording both isn't a huge problem, I'll just delete the SD.

Why do you find it necessary to set up a manual record for "Joan"? Not that I'm trying to be nosy, I just want to learn!

Thanks for the help,
Tracey

[duffin]

Originally posted by tlrowley
Okay, recording both isn't a huge problem, I'll just delete the SD.

Why do you find it necessary to set up a manual record for "Joan"? Not that I'm trying to be nosy, I just want to learn!

Thanks for the help,
Tracey

So it doesn't record any more than the time and date I want versus the extra runs.

Manual will save you from having the delete the HD unless you are trying to capture every "Joan" aired on 13-1.

[tlrowley]

But manual won't find it at a different time, right? Say if it's an hour later, or a "very special" 2-hour episode?

Tracey

[duffin]

Correct. But it will record a lot of episodes you don't want.

[wmccain]

Originally posted by tlrowley
There are two identical episodes, SD at 7 , HD at 8 , on the same channel - 13-1 (stupid, I know).
Are you sure they don't use two different subchannels? Say, 13-1 for HD and 13-2 for SD? That is the typical arrangement used by most broadcasters in my area.

[tlrowley]

Positive - at 8pm 13-2 becomes the subchannel used for SD. This only ooccurs for the 7-8pm block, because of the different start for prime time shows.
The listings at kovr.com do show the situation I'm talking about, but they use Titantv, and have the SD and HD shows reversed at 7 and 8, but they do show the same epsiode back-to-back. On Thursday for example you have

___________13-1 HD_______________13-2
7pm_______Joan (SD) _____________ Joan(SD)
8pm_______ Joan (HD)____________CSI (SD)
9pm________CSI (HD)_____________Without a Trace (SD)
10pm_______ WaT (HD)_____________Local news.

Bizarre, huh? I guess a manual record, and keeping an eye out for schedule changes would be the best thing.

Tracey

[duffin]

Don't go by Titan TV. Go by the DirecTV channel guide.

[Little Dude]

tlrowley, be careful with that season pass in Sac. It will try to record the first Joan of Arcadia on 13-1 and skip the second (especially since I set it to record first run only). The first showing is standard (with the pretty black boxes on the side) and the second is high def. Under the season pass manager, go to the upcoming episodes and click on the second showing (the 8 for Joan of Arcadia).

[tlrowley]

Hey, Little Dude - thanks for the info - that's exactly what I was hoping to find - someone with real world experience with the situation in Sacramento. Now all I need is for GG to get their shipment in!

Thanks,
Tracey

[phaseshift]

I'm new around here; replying 5 months after the message below.
I just got one of these cool DirectTV HD DVR units. Its not installed yet. But as an owner of a fixed-pixel display, 720p native Samsung HLN, I have found it beneficial to change the output of my cable box (to be retired next week) to match the broadcast signal HD signal.

My TV's Faroujda chipset simply does a better job of converting 1080i to 720p than the chips in my Motorola HD cable box. A 1080i signal looks crisper when converted by my tv than it does when converted by my cable box. The difference is subtle, and most consumers probably wouldn't care.

Has anyone found the same experience with the DirectTV units? I'll certainly play with it once my installer comes; but I expect that I'll want ABC-HD and ESPN-HD (and eventually FOX-HD when that happens) to be output in 720p, and the rest in 1080i.


Originally posted by Darin
The ONLY display technology in use today that doesn't have an inherent "native" resolution is CRT. CRT can simply change the number of lines it does in one scan to accommodate any number of resolutions. But unfortunately, most CRT HD sets available don't take advantage of this ability. The electronics within them are designed to scan at one or maybe two specific frequencies (usually 1080, and maybe additionally 480 for SD), and separate electronics in the set run the image through interpolation when the incoming signal does not match that resolution. Why they do this, I don't know, because the picture would look best if displayed at it's original resolution rather than interpolated to another. Practically all CRT based computer monitors, even cheap sub-$100 ones, do multi-scan, so why this ability can mostly only be found in high-end projectors is a mystery to me.

Anyway, all the other display types have a fixed pixel geometry, no matter what you do with the incoming signal, they only have a specific amount of physical pixels to work with, so they MUST interpolate the incoming signal to match their native resolution, if it's not the same already.

So this is why most (all???) STBs don't simply output whatever resolution the original signal is, because unless you have one of those relatively rare CRT sets that can do multiscan, the TV is going to convert it to a specific resolution anyway. So all things being equal, it's better to do that conversion in the STB while the signal is still digital, and it ensures the guide and other STB generated graphics look better (they don't end up going through an interpolation).

That's why I said the ability to switch output resolutions would benefit high-end CRT owners, because this would let them override the automatic interpolation to a specific resolution, and get the best PQ possible out of the incoming signal. And those who wanted to take advantage of that ability would most likely know which networks are which. For everyone else, leaving it set to the native resolution of your TV is generally best. FWIW, to the best of my knowledge, ABC, ESPN, and in the fall, FOX, use 720p, while all the others use 1080i.

[phaseshift]

Keep in mind, the current plan is for stations to give up one of their frequencies when the transition to digital reaches 85% of homes. FCC says 2006, we all know it will take longer. But eventually, unless the rules are changed, the stations will go to just one channel, and if they have a VHF, they're likely to use it.

Originally posted by Gromit
Thanks! I just checked and the stations I need are UHF only (no VHF). I guess that makes it a bit easier. I'll check out the Channel Master 4228. Ooops, NBC is VHF.

Is there a problem with having my switch outside? That just makes it easier to run the lines upstairs (2 story family room makes things difficult). I'm guessing it doesn't matter either way. It sounds like the OTA antenna signal can go to the switch or the receiver. I'll have to figure out which will be easier.

I think I'm going to be OK with the OTA signal strength, I just hope I can get away with putting the antenna in the attic vs on the roof.

[vscotta]

Here's an interesting articel regarding the DirecTV and Tivo relationship going forward.

http://msn-cnet.com.com/For+TiVo%2C+a+channel+of+one%27s+own%3F/2100-1041_3-5229737.html?part=msn-cnet&subj=ns_5229737&tag=tg_home

[phaseshift]

Originally posted by Special_Ed21
I have the Samsung HLN617w DLP and have pre-ordered the HR10-250 HD. It looks like I will be switching resolutions often using the up arrow on the remote or the front panel switch. Unfortunately my mother is very tech challenged and will be very confused as to which resolution to use and will probably just watch whatever setting it happens to be on.

I want to know if the SD signals will look better with the DVI output than my current Hughes HDVR2 S-video output. Any thoughts on this?
:(

I don't have the HD Tivo hooked up yet, but in my previous experience with DVI-enabled DVD players attached to my Samsung HLN50something, 480i or p over DVI results in a very small picture. It is not scaled to fill the screen horizontally. Its like a window in the middle of the screen. I imagine it will be the same with the HD Tivo and the Samsung; thus I will only be switching between 720p and 1080i, with 720p being used for 480i and 480p.

[phaseshift]

Originally posted by Bigg
D8 should offer INHD and INHD2, currently only for cable people. I don't have an HDTV yet, as the HDTV situation in hartford-NH is not terribly pretty.

On INHD's web site, appears the legend:
ONLY ON CABLE.
It's owned by Comcast, Cox and Time Warner. I don't think it will be made available to DirectTV.

[Castaa]

This is an excellent thread.

One question:
Do I need a connected phone line to download the TiVo program information to use the TiVo/DirectTV HD recorder? Or does the TiVo recorder use DirectTV's program information downloaded from the satellite?

Thanks.

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Castaa
This is an excellent thread.

One question:
Do I need a connected phone line to download the TiVo program information to use the TiVo/DirectTV HD recorder? Or does the TiVo recorder use DirectTV's program information downloaded from the satellite?
You need a phone line connected to do the initial setup. However if you can set up PPP over serial through your computer, you can manage without.

You only need a phone line connected for DirecTV PPV payment data to be sent back, and for TiVo software updates and anonymous viewer data reporting (though PPP over serial works for software updates and anonymous viewer data).

[Bigg]

Sat

[Castaa]

Originally posted by dswallow
You need a phone line connected to do the initial setup. However if you can set up PPP over serial through your computer, you can manage without.

You only need a phone line connected for DirecTV PPV payment data to be sent back, and for TiVo software updates and anonymous viewer data reporting (though PPP over serial works for software updates and anonymous viewer data).

So once the box is setup (one time only ideally) via the phone line, I shouldn't need to reconnect the PVR/DTV Receiver to a phone line for normal TiVo operation? (This is important because a nearest phone line is over 50 feet away.)

And thanks for the reply!

[dswallow]

Originally posted by Castaa
So once the box is setup (one time only ideally) via the phone line, I shouldn't need to reconnect the PVR/DTV Receiver to a phone line for normal TiVo operation? (This is important because a nearest phone line is over 50 feet away.)

And thanks for the reply!
Yeah, you could just reconnect it for a short time and force a daily call when you heard a new software update was out for it.

But if you've got a phone line, and it's just a matter of connecting to it over a distance, there's wireless powerline phone extensions that work just fine with the unit that you could use, then you'd also have the PPV functionality and no worries about watching for software updates around here.

[Castaa]

Originally posted by dswallow
Yeah, you could just reconnect it for a short time and force a daily call when you heard a new software update was out for it.

But if you've got a phone line, and it's just a matter of connecting to it over a distance, there's wireless powerline phone extensions that work just fine with the unit that you could use, then you'd also have the PPV functionality and no worries about watching for software updates around here.

Well heck. I'm sold! :)

What is currently the best method/deal of getting a DirecTV HR10-250 DirecTV with TiVo, the DirectTV SD/HD packages and the HD dish?

And again thank you for taking the time and replying!

[Bigg]

You need Totoal choice or better. If you want HDTV programming from the sat you will need the HD package and/or HBO and/or SHO. It is $999 everywhere and is under high demand, so just order it anywhere you can get it soon from. They should give you the Phase 3 dish (multisat) for free if you sign for a year of Total choice with HDTV package.

[auee]

Generic video question here.......my CRT TV is only capable of displaying 480i, 480p, and 1080i according to the manual. How does the HD-Tivo handle 720p with my display options? Does it do a conversion or will I not be able to view stations broadcasting with the 720p format? Does a FAQ on any of this exist somewhere?

Thanks!

[BrettStah]

Originally posted by auee
Generic video question here.......my CRT TV is only capable of displaying 480i, 480p, and 1080i according to the manual. How does the HD-Tivo handle 720p with my display options? Does it do a conversion or will I not be able to view stations broadcasting with the 720p format? Does a FAQ on any of this exist somewhere?

Thanks!

This is the FAQ thread you've posted your question to. From the first post in this thread:
What output formats/resizing does this DirecTV HD TiVo support?

A Setup menu allows you to specify the Output Formats (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i) your TV is capable of displaying. While watching live TV or a recorded program, you can simply press the UP arrow on your remote to toggle between the output formats your TV supports. All programs are converted to the selected format. There is also a button on the front of the unit giving the same control.

[RMSko]

I've read all the posts in this thread and have a few followup questions that I'm hoping to get some help with:

1. Is there any way to set the TiVo so that it will automatically switch the output format to the native output format (I have a Samsung HLP and I'd rather let it do the converting)?

2. Can the TiVo indicate swhat the native output format of a particular program is?

3. Does the TiVo have a signal meter? If not, what is the best (easiest, quickest and least expensive) way to set my outdoor antenna to get the best signal (I live in NJ about 20 miles from NYC).

4. If I have the TiVo set to 720p, for a 480i (SD) program, does anyone know how the picture will look on a Samsung DLP set? Will it fill the entire screen?

5. In the TiVo setup, there is an option for "TV Aspect Correction". The two choices are "Full" and "Panel (letterboxing/sidebars)". The manual then says that if the TV supports "zoom" mode you can select "full" and the picture will be stretched and no side bars will be shown. I'm not sure which is the best option to select for the Samsung HLP set.

Thanks.

[Scaroth]

Originally posted by RMSko

1. Is there any way to set the TiVo so that it will automatically switch the output format to the native output format (I have a Samsung HLP and I'd rather let it do the converting)?

No.

2. Can the TiVo indicate swhat the native output format of a particular program is?

No.

3. Does the TiVo have a signal meter? If not, what is the best (easiest, quickest and least expensive) way to set my outdoor antenna to get the best signal (I live in NJ about 20 miles from NYC).

Yes - you can test the signals of the satellites and the local digital channels.

4. If I have the TiVo set to 720p, for a 480i (SD) program, does anyone know how the picture will look on a Samsung DLP set? Will it fill the entire screen?

I don't have this set, but in my experience it's best to output as close to native as possible because up-converts of 480i don't look real good to me.

5. In the TiVo setup, there is an option for "TV Aspect Correction". The two choices are "Full" and "Panel (letterboxing/sidebars)". The manual then says that if the TV supports "zoom" mode you can select "full" and the picture will be stretched and no side bars will be shown. I'm not sure which is the best option to select for the Samsung HLP set.

The best thing to do is to try them out and find what you like best.

Thanks.
You're welcome!

[RMSko]

Originally posted by Scaroth
Yes - you can test the signals of the satellites and the local digital channels.

In looking through the manual I noticed that during setup there is an option to "Test Satellite Signal", however, there is no mention of it also testing the OTA signal and the picture in the manual seems to limit this to the satellite signal. Does the manual just miss this point and is this the place in setup where it will also test the OTA signal?

[Budget_HT]

Can't remember exactly where the OTA signal test/meter is in the menu structure, but it is close to the one for satellite and works about the same.

There is also a two-button operation on the front of the TiVo unit that provides a bunch of information on a single screen, including signal strength/quality for all four tuners. This feature is not documented to my knowledge (in the manual). I don't remember which two buttons off-hand (my notes are at home) and I don't recall whether the readings on this page are static (frozen readings from the time the page was initially displayed) or dynamic (signal strength/quality readings varying in real time). I am at work and cannot verify any of this right now.

[Tom in OH]

Originally posted by RMSko
In looking through the manual I noticed that during setup there is an option to "Test Satellite Signal", however, there is no mention of it also testing the OTA signal and the picture in the manual seems to limit this to the satellite signal. Does the manual just miss this point and is this the place in setup where it will also test the OTA signal?

You can find the sat/ota signal meter by:
--hitting the DirecTv button on remote
--messages & setup
--settings
--satellite & off-air antenna

Checking the sat/ota antenna strength is fun.

enjoy,
Tom

[RMSko]

Originally posted by Tom in OH
You can find the sat/ota signal meter by:
--hitting the DirecTv button on remote
--messages & setup
--settings
--satellite & off-air antenna

Checking the sat/ota antenna strength is fun.

enjoy,
Tom

Excellent, thanks!

[Manolo]

Just got my unit and plugged it in in no time. Activated with DirecTV and got my HD programming going. I set up a Zenith indoor ATSC antenna and got 90% on my OTA channels as well.

The only problem is, though S-video looks perfectly crisp, component cables in 480i, 480p, or 1080i look like bad MPEGs. The text is all blockly like a VCD would look.

Any help? I'll try different component cables tomorrow, but that input on the TV works perfectly for other devices hooked up with component cables...



UPDATE: I turned the noise reduction and sharpness all the way down and now the picture is perfect on the component connections! Thanks to all for the responses.

[Scaroth]

Originally posted by Manolo

The only problem is, though S-video looks perfectly crisp, component cables in 480i, 480p, or 1080i look like bad MPEGs. The text is all blockly like a VCD would look.

It might have something to do with your display's native resolution - does it conform to what it's given? The s-vhs input will always be 480i and the display will know this, but on component it might be locking the resolution??

[RobHT]

Quick question.
I have 2 feeds coming into the HR10-250 from the sat and I selected the 2 input option during the initial setup, but I am continually getting scheduling conflicts when I change channels while it is recording what I am watching.
What gives?

[mercurial]

Originally posted by RobHT
Quick question.
I have 2 feeds coming into the HR10-250 from the sat and I selected the 2 input option during the initial setup, but I am continually getting scheduling conflicts when I change channels while it is recording what I am watching.
What gives?

Do you have suggestions or Starz On Demand enabled? Is it possible it's recording one of those on the other tuner? Are you completely sure you don't have two things scheduled to record? Try doing a down arrow to swap tuners and see if the other one is recording something then this happens.

[RobHT]

mercurial,
Thanks for the response.
Do you have suggestions or Starz On Demand enabled?
Yes, I have suggestions enabled but no Starz. Should I turn 'suggestions' off?
Try doing a down arrow to swap tuners and see if the other one is recording something then this happens.
I will give that a try. If only one thing is being recorded, does the HD-Tivo automatically switch to the 2nd tuner when I change channels or do I have to manually instruct it to do so?

[mercurial]

Originally posted by RobHT
mercurial,
Thanks for the response.

Yes, I have suggestions enabled but no Starz. Should I turn 'suggestions' off?

I will give that a try. If only one thing is being recorded, does the HD-Tivo automatically switch to the 2nd tuner when I change channels or do I have to manually instruct it to do so?

Well, I turn off suggestions personally. With all the extra recording space, it just makes for too much stuff in the lists. I go and look at the suggestion list now and again and pick some thing to record. So that's a personal choice. If you turn know it's a suggestion being recorded, you can just abort it if you want to watch something live. The only downside of that is you probably end up with a "partial" recording in your list.

If the second tuner is free and the current tuner is being recorded and you change channels, it should switch to the second tuner automatically. The down arrow (or LiveTV) button lets you toggle between the two if you're curious what each one is doing but you don't *have* to do it to make it work.

[dswallow]

Aborted suggestion recordings are deleted from the Now Playing list automatically. Aborted explicitly configured recordings are left there.

[bigthree17]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to this site, and I just wanted to get your opinion. I have a Sony KF50-WE610 (LCD widescreen) TV. It only has one DVI input. Currently, I have it hooked up to my Samsung HD-931 DVD player (which I bought solely because it had a DVI connection). I just got the HR10-250 yesterday. Obviously I want the best pic resolution possible. So do you guys suggest I use the DVI input on my TV with the DVD player or the receiver? In which case I would use component video on the other.

I read somewhere that the HDMI/DVI connection on the HR10-250 can cause some wash-out on some TV's, but just wanted to see if anyone else has run into this issue and what you did.

Thanks.

[leftcoastdave]

I just helped a friend install that same Sony LCD TV and we connected his new HR10-250 via DVI. It looked spectacular. His HD TiVo is replacing a Hughes HD DirectV set top box and the TiVo looked every bit as good as the Hughes it was replacing.

Given the choice, I would hook up the 480p progressive scan DVD player via component and reserve the 1080i capable HD Tivo for the DVI port on your Sony.

Of course you could always set the devices up either way and then swap them before you make the final call on what works best for your situation.

Dave