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Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by timckelley, Jun 3, 2003.
Oops, you're right.
I have to retract this. I just looked up my records, and by the time you add in sales tax, I spent a hair over $500.
And time is money. Don't forget, time = money.
I've had my doubts, but my wife claims yes.
She said yes she has. I then asked if she watched them by transferring them from the NAS to a TiVo then watching it, or did she watch it off her TiVo just after NASing it, but before deleting it off the TiVo? She said for all but one, it was the latter, but there was one show she did transfer from NAS to TiVo, after the original TiVo deletion, so she could watch it.
For the more common situation (where she watched it before deleting it from her TiVo, but had already NAS'd it), I have a sneaking feeling that she might have never deleted it from the NAS. I think she likes to save certain shows that she's already watched, because she thinks they're good and worth saving, I guess so that she has the option to watch them again later if she wants. I would like to think if the show's not notable though - but that she simply wanted to watch it before losing it - that she'd delete it from the NAS. I guess I should have asked her about that.
Oh wait - she doesn't know how to delete a show from the NAS, and she's never asked me to delete one for her. I need to remind her that she can do this.
LOL. You're a very good husband, Tim. Better than I'd be in that situation, that's for sure.
I don't have a NAS. I have several servers in my house. Two of them are more than 10 years old, one of which is serving video. I expect both (with upgrades, of course - neither has many of their original components, even today) to last until my death.
The servers are necessary, quite apart from one of them having as part of its duties holding and serving video data. Actually coming up with a correct number for the total cost would be very difficult. At a minimum it is 8 drives * $150 per drive, or $1200. It is probably more like twice that, but then that $8 * 60 figure is nowhere nearly sufficient to cover the cost of renting, and not a tiny fraction of the cost to me in time trying to find content. Multipy by 30 years or so, and your math is closer to correct. That's around $2900, but it doesn't meet my needs effectively.
Almost all of it was recorded by the TiVos. A little bit is ripped from DVDs or BluRays. A handful I authored myself.
Why? Exactly what benefit has being engaged in the world lent you? What difference will the effort you have spent in being so engaged make in 20 years? In 40 years? What effect will your engagement allow you to have on the world's existence on any time frame - outside the people you know personally?
No, it is not. It is also not possible to do something else properly, efficiently, and effectively while being distracted by TV, or anything else, for that matter.
I fail to imagine how one could watch TV while doing laundry, unless one has a TV in the laundry room, and ditto washing dishes unless one has a TV in the kitchen. I do not. For me, it is a moot point in any case, because my housekeeper does those things.
One of the last things I would ever allow myself from which to be distracted is prepapring food. At worst, it could be extremely dangerous. At best, one will tend to wind up with lousy food. When I am cooking, I am cooking. Nothing else. When I am watching TV, I m watching TV. Nothing else. When I drive a car, I drive a car. Nothing else. When I am on the phone, I am on the phone. Nothing else. When I am writing code, I write code. Nothing else. I do not cook, watch TV, write code, or drive while on the phone. I do not have the TV on when I am doing anything else.
I rarely ever prepare food for the next day. If I prepare food, it is for immediate consumption unless I am preparing for a trip or a picnic, or if the food itself takes several days to be ready. My goulash, for example, is best not eaten until at least two days after it is cooked.
The bottom line is this, whatever I do is not worth doing unless it has essentially 100% of my attention, whether it is as simple as brushing my teeth, or as complex as designing a network.
LOL - this thread's getting weirder (if that's possible.)
Fair enough, but is it enlightening, or at least entertaining?
Yes, absolutely and entirely!
Then we of different viewpoints have been of service, and I, at least, am content.
lrhorer's 99TB has to cost a bit more than that... Even with cheap PC hardware, doing ~100TB is going to be close to $10k assuming large RAID 6 arrays.
Hah, I read right over that.
I'd have to say that's a pretty good excuse to get WAF on building giant RAID arrays and putting them on the network!
Ok, even more expensive. Even if you're keeping old hardware alive, eventually it will get out of hand maintenance wise, and you also have to get new drives every few years, not only to keep up with capacity, but because they start to fail.
You have to look at it over the reasonable life of the servers. Computer hardware doesn't last 30 years. You could keep getting old hardware, and even if it's so old that it's really cheap, you're still going to have a cost to acquiring and maintaining it. Plus, the electric bills for any NAS/server system will be significant.
Holy crap. Digital hoarding to an extreme!
So that I can live an educated life, and know what's going on around me, and in the country. And so that I can have an intelligent discussion with other people about current issues, and really know what's going on.
If I take a 10% productivity hit for watching TV, that's a fantastic trade-off to make. I would dread doing anything in the kitchen without TV and podcasts to listen to, so nothing would get done. If you take the 10% performance hit, combined with doing two things at once, you effectively gain 80-90%. Sounds like a good compromise to me.
Excuse me and my sub-1% salary. I'm probably in the top 5-10%, not the top 1%. I have a TV in the kitchen, and I fold laundry on my bed, where I have a computer screen where I can stream or watch torrented shows.
There's not much to mess up while cooking, unless you're just being a klutz. Driving, yes, I put a podcast on and leave the phone alone, since I am sharing a road with other people.
Apparently you and your 1% money doesn't have to make your own lunch, but I do, so it has to be done the night before so that it's ready in the morning. If I didn't have TV to listen to while preparing food, I would never prepare any food, and I'd get really fat from ordering take-out, and my kitchen would be slovenly, unlike the neat, clean, well-ordered place that it is now.
Where's that "Oh, SNAP" photo that's been floating around?
I admit it's not the same thing at all, but I had a movie on my netflix queue for I think around 10 years before actually watching it (the 13th floor).
I have watched some tivoed stuff *years* after watching it. Not 5 though, I don't think.. only because my S3 drive (and the S3) died.
First of all, my arrays are nowhere near 100T. That was the other poster. My largest array at the moment boasts 18T of available storage, 24T of media. Secondly, a large array does not cost quite that much. If one employs consumer grade media (which works fine for non-commercial purposes), drive space is under $50 per TB, and array chassis plus controllers are available for about $60 per spindle. A 20 drive chassis fully loaded with 3T drives runs about $4200, and delivers between 51T and 60T of storage with moderate to no redundancy. Loaded with 4T drives, it will deliver between 68T and 80T for about $7000. I expect that number to drop below $5500 later this year. I would not be at all surprised if by Christmas a 100T array employing 4T spindles with 4 parity drives can be had for under $8000, or with no redundancy for around $7000. An array employing 3T spindles can be had for that right now. That said, I am not planning to grow any of my arrays beyond 32T of storage any time this year, and maybe not beyond 24T.
Of course. The same is true of desktop PCs and DVRs. I imagine more than half of the Premieres out there are upgrade purchases.
Yes, it does in some cases. At work I manage more than 50 hard drive based controllers whose drives have been spinning continuously since the early to middle 1990s.
True, but then so is a monthly fee for online rentals for the reminder of my life. The most important point, which you continuously avoid, however, is that the storage pool of any rental service is maintained by someone else. The most unacceptable thing about Netflix et al is their pathetic selection. The second most important point is that most of the selection is a mound of garbage, and I would have to wade through that mound continuously to make use of it. On my server, virtually every single show is something I will enjoy watching at some point in time, and the vast majority I will enjoy again, and again, and again. Just last night my sister and I watched Little Man Tate and Finian's Rainbow. It was her first time to see Little Man Tate, and my fourth. I've watched Finian's Rainbow at least ten times. Both look to be available only on DVD: no HD and no streaming, AFAICT. So much for the usefulness of Netflix.
Don't be moronic. Hoarding implies collecting large numbers of items which will never see use, and it usually connotes indiscriminate collecting. Apparently you think anyone who has a library is hoarding. I have a modest book library, as well as a moderate film library. I enjoy - and occasionally employ - selections from both on a very regular basis. Almost none of the selections in either one will never see use by me again, unless I get hit by a bus in the next few weeks or something.
That is certainly not the way to do it. To live an educated life, you need to seek the content of a library, but apparently you find that something only a hoarder will do. An education implies useful knowledge, not reams of useless trivia. If it isn't going to be useful and important ten years from now, then it is just frivolous noise. What's worse, the so-called news is rarely, if ever, even useful at all, even today. Mostly it is nothing but sensationalist crap about what talentless starlet cheated on what spoiled movie star, or what prima donna sports star is demanding how many $millions per year.
Take the O.J. Simpson trial, for example. For the better part of a year, it dominated nearly every newscast. It was an almost completely irrelevant event that deserved nothing more than a 50 word sentence on page 20 of a Los Angeles newspaper. The fact the trial itself should have lasted no more than a week is another matter.
If you think the news does that, then you are a fool. It is very unlikely that any given news feature concerns anyone or anything that will ever impact you personally, and even on those rare occasions, it is absolutely certain that the matter will not be given any in-depth treatment.
That is mostly an oxymoron. It is all but impossible to have an intelligent discussion of a current issue. An intelligent discussion for the most part can only be the result of weeks, months, or perhaps even years of research. In any case, I have more than plenty of material for lively and intelligent discussion to fill several lifetimes contained in the works of Galileo, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, William Shakespeare, Sophocles, George Bernard Shaw, Thomas Payne, Vincent van Gogh, Leonardo da Vinci, Piers Anthony, Arthur Conan Doyle, J.K. Rowling and dozens of others represented in my book library, not to mention the nearly 2000 movies and TV series episodes in my film library without having to resort to prattle about Charlie Sheen's most recent meltdown or what some congressman did to one of his interns behind the Lincoln Memorial.
You won't find that on any TV, or even in any newspaper. You will only find that which is sensational, which rarely has anything to do with the actual events of import. Most truly important events are boring, and the bulk of all the actual mechanics are not even important taken as an individual event. On person starting their car in the morning has almost no impact at all on anything, but the better part of a billion people starting their cars every morning has a far more reaching impact on you, me, and everyone else than an attempted assassination on some idiot of an elected official. "What is going on" is tens of billions of individual little acts that add up to a sort of momentum beyond the ability of any person to change, or even to comprehend.
Usually it is more like a 250% hit. Depending on the task, not only will it take far longer to do both together than it would to concentrate on a single task, the more important aspect is the quality of both.
Many people make that mistake, and then wonder why they have little free time and why they obtain such poor results.
I don't really know, but I doubt I am in the top 5%.
It sounds to me like you haven't done much cooking. First of all, handling ultra-sharp knives and other cooking utensils requires strict concentration, or else an accident is likely. Of course, in my case, my paralysis definitely does not help, so I must concentrate more than the average person or risk very serious injury. I will say that in over 40 years of cooking for myself, I have never had more than a minor cut, and very few of those. I know a number of people of which this is not true.
More to the point, however, being an effective cook requires careful scheduling of each element of the meal. Failure to plan and watch the clock can result in parts of the meal being inappropriately cold or too hot. Some foods can burn in a matter of just seconds if one is not paying attention. Just the other day I made a mistake and did the mashed potatoes too early, so that by the time they reached the table, they were beginning to get stiff, while my mad rush to get the roast cooked caused it to be unevenly done.
Listening to a podcast or similar distraction has been shown to be the equivalent of DUI. Even listening to music impairs one's driving abilities.
The whole point of having one's own library and/or collection is that the books/movies/music etc. in the library are matched to one's own taste, and not the taste of what is commercially popular.
Many people assume that if they want something "they can just find it at the library" (or Netflix, or whatever other service), totally oblivious to the fact that even the local public library can only keep so much, and what they keep will be decided on primarily by how much it circulates.
If your own favorite item is obscure, you can't count on some other library having it. The best thing to do is to own one's own copy.
This is a simple fact, apparently impossible to grasp by the people who float along consuming current content and nothing else.
There is nothing wrong with choosing to partake of only current content, and I understand why commercial content providers are forced to act the way they do, but IMHO in the private sphere, it is ill-mannered to dictate to others what they should be watching / reading / hearing, or what they should choose to own.
It is especially puzzling because in so many other areas, people refuse to hire professional services (e.g. plumbers, electricians), preferring to do the work themselves. But apparently this do-it-yourself mentality doesn't apply when I perform the professional services for myself which I know how to do (e.g. acquisitions librarian).
I must have confused you with another poster. My prices were correct, however, I looked them up on Newegg based off of 3TB WD drives running in RAID 6, IIRC.
That's getting close to 20 years with enterprise grade hardware, not 30 with consumer grade hardware.
Then go somewhere else. There are tons of options for streaming, and even then, you can't possible watch it all. The concept of re-watching content in this day and age doesn't make any sense either, there's so much new content out there all the time that there's no reason to re-watch most things, other than a few legendary movies, which are easily available everywhere.
There is no realistic usage case for even a few TB of TV shows, thus it is hoarding. Certainly not to the extent where it ruins your life like those crazy shows on TLC and A&E, but more like a lot of people's garages and attics, a bunch of crap they're never going to use but still keep around. A certain collection is normal, but not RAID array after RAID array full of the crap.
I'm talking about current political and social events that are important. I like to stay educated on what's going on in the world.
The state of the US economy and political system of course impacts everyone. However, if you go by a strict definition of only things that directly impact you, you will quickly become an ignorant person with no intellectual curiosity. That's a horrible, pathetic existence. People who have intelligence and intelectual curiosity will read and learn about things that they won't do or see or places they won't go, but still gain from the experience.
The world moves at a faster pace than that. I like to be able to have an intelligent conversation about things on a daily or weekly basis, not years later.
Not on the evening news. However, ironically the fake news shows dig into a lot of real issues much deeper than the real news, Rachel Maddow does a good job on the purely political side of things, and PBS shows also do a great job of topically discussing things in depth.
I'm sorry, but I'm not retarded. I can wash dishes, prepare food, or fold laundry while comprehending what is on my TV. So can most other people.
It's not a mistake. If I did things linearly, instead of in parallel, I would either do many fewer things (like watch/listen to shows about current events) or I would just about never sleep, and would be totally ineffective at everything.
If you weren't, you wouldn't be able to really afford a housekeeper.
I don't really cook much, but I do a decent amount of food prep and cleaning and whatnot in the kitchen. However, I'm not an idiot, I can handle a knife just fine while listening to Jon Stewart or Rachel Maddow. If you have issues handling knives, then you shouldn't be handling them in the first place.
There's more leeway than that. Yes, it does require some planning. Which has nothing to do with also listening to/watching a show at the same time.
So the radio, which everyone listens to while they drive, is a horrendous distraction? Give me a break. That's absurd. I'm a better driver while I'm listening to a podcast, as my mind isn't wandering all over the place, and I don't drive nearly as fast (although speed and safety have a limited connection other than KE = .5mv^2).
You're acting as if everything that comes out is off the market within months or a few years. That's absurd and completely untrue. The amount of consumer choice has never been higher, and you can find a massive selection of content available on demand between your MSO, iTunes, Amazon, Netflix, VUDU, and the like. More than anyone can watch. If you really need to find something obscure late, someone probably has it on Amazon or Ebay for sale.
In short, you are completely clueless.
#1: It's no business of yours if I want to re-watch content that I own. "No reason for you to re-watch things" does not equal "no reason to watch".
You prefer new content. Bully for you. Go watch new content. Don't dictate to other people what they should watch.
#2: IMHO streaming video over the net, for content which is available on physical media, is a colossal waste of bandwidth.
#3: How do you expect "someone probably has it on Amazon or Ebay for sale" if we can't buy it in the first place, because owning our own physical media is being a hoarder? Where do you think secondhand copies come from? Someone has to buy them first or they won't be on the resale market later.
I didn't say owning any media at all was being a hoarder, I said keeping absurd amounts of content around is being a hoarder.
It's not a waste of bandwidth at all. It's putting bandwidth to good use. Considering the internet runs on 40gbps and now now 100gbps connection, I don't think it's going to run out of bandwidth anytime soon.
If you're just sitting around watching the same thing over and over, you're not experiencing what else is out there. That and it's generally boring.
Absurd amounts of content -- according to you. Who made you arbiter elegantiae?
You can't argue that it's okay to stream video because the Internet is an unlimited resource, but wag your finger at other people and say they have too much stuff. If there's no ration book for you, what gives you the right to impose rationing on other people?
And if you are multitasking while you watch, you aren't paying attention, and you haven't really seen it. So you aren't experiencing what is out there at all, or only getting some small percentage.
Just because you have a short attention span, and can't even pay attention to your "new" content when you watch it, is no reason to slam other people who prefer to watch theirs in a different manner than you do.
While I do not always agree with your points of view, I ALWAYS read them as I find them well reasoned and engaging.
As for the comment about being engaged in the world... I guess it depends on which PART of the world. You seem very engaged in some aspects. This fourm as an example. You just seem to choose those parts of interest to you rather than let society dictate what you should be engaged in. I find that refreshing.