1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why does Mini require a Service Plan?

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by d.susie798, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. d.susie798

    d.susie798 New Member

    7
    0
    Oct 23, 2013
    This seems a massive rip off. The main Tivo is the only one receiving the guides and scheduling things. So I don't understand how Tivo gets away with charging so much just to connect a Mini.

    Is this a legit thing or simply what it appears like: a massive rip-off?

    I've been getting more an more upset with Tivo lately. I pay a huge amount of money to buy the device and to pay for service plan and yet I still have to put up with advertisements within the Tivo itself. I wouldn't mind if there was an "advertisement section" of Tivo where you navigate to and watch the advertisements at your choosing. But popping those things up when I Pause etc infuriates me.

    Is the Mini just another way to rip-off the customer? For the first time I'm starting to look at dropping Tivo because of things like this.
     
  2. SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

    8,628
    11
    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    They get away with what the market will bare. If you don't want to pay monthly get lifetime. If TiVo only offered the mini at full price people would be complaining about that. They can't win. Don't want to pay monthly? Get lifetime. Don't want to pay full price? Buy one of TiVo's competitors like Replay or Moxi.
     
  3. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,646
    1
    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    My view remains that the real list price of the TiVo Mini is $250. TiVo offers an option of $100 down and perpetual monthly fee if that fits your need better.

    TiVo always has, and continues to, lose money on their hardware production (though they are getting much better.) The service fees pay for the rest of the hardware, R&D, advertising, company overhead, and on-going expenses. Except for patent litigation money and two marginal quarters, TiVo has never made a profit, and will not make a profit in the near future. Folks are just not willing pay as much money up front as TiVo needs to support the company - thus hiked service fees and advertising to try and break even now, and establish another revenue source for the future, respectively.
     
  4. d.susie798

    d.susie798 New Member

    7
    0
    Oct 23, 2013
    I was apprised some time ago of the executive compensation of Tivo. It is outrageous. I think most of this money is going to overcompensate executives and not towards R&D or bettering the product.

    I can buy at retail a 3TB drive for around $120. The cost of the scheduling guide? I just find it hard to believe all this costs that much.

    Okay, Tivo is only for people well off enough to afford it. But when you start throwing the ads on the screen when you push pause and charging $150 service plan for a device that uses the service plan of the $600 device it is going too far.
     
  5. SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

    8,628
    11
    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    So then buy a replay or moxi.
     
  6. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
    4
    Oct 31, 2007
    Don't think of it as a service fee - think of it as an additional node with most of the same functionality.

    The base Roamio is $200 + $500 service fee for $700
    The mini is $100 + $150 service fee for $250

    So the mini is 1/3 the price of the cheapest Roamio (1/4 of the plus and 1/5 of the pro). It is a lot cheaper for you to add additional connections to each TV in your home with a mini and TiVo still earns a reasonable revenue for each unit sold.

    Now you know the reason, agree or don't agree - that is the price model TiVo chose. Before the mini, those of us who needed / wanted the TiVo experience on multiple TiVo's had to purchase a full TiVo for each TV.

    Trust me, this new model is a bargain!



    I hate this executive pay argument btw - TiVo doesn't owe you a damn thing. They are in business to bring share holder value... They do that by providing a product that people will purchase and ultimately generate a profit.

    If they don't generate a profit over the long term, they go out of business.
     
  7. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Think of it this way, the Mini cost $250, too much money for what you get don't purchase one, if the Mini saves you $9/month on a cable and A/O expense all the better, OH! you do have the option of monthly payments, dropping the Mini cost to less than $100.
     
  8. d.susie798

    d.susie798 New Member

    7
    0
    Oct 23, 2013
    Guys, my gripe is that it is too expensive to purhase. I've been using Tivo for over 10 years now. And for the first time, I can't justify the expense. I wanted to buy a unit for my mom too so that she can enjoy the cable TV she pays for. But she can't afford it and I can't afford to buy her a setup either.

    My solution? Roku for both of us.

    My gripe? I don't see Tivo surviving at these prices. Maybe I'm wrong and enough rich people can keep Tivo afloat. I don't know. But I'm sick of seeing ads on a device I pay a thousand bucks for (hardware plus service). Paying $600 for the flagship hardware is really high and yet I still don't get features like IR Inputs for RF remote control use from base stations. It's just not worth the money IMHO. I love the Mini hardware and what it allows and think this is a great new feature of TiVo. Too bad I can't make use of it.

    Maybe some of the blame deserves to be laid on the entertainment industry that DRMs everything and demands exorbitant payoffs from TiVo. I don't know if this is happening or not. But regardless, TiVo executives are overcompensated and it isn't helping TiVo's future. Although I'm not claiming this is the sole reason for the high cost.
     
  9. aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Active Member

    1,062
    0
    Dec 30, 2002
    Va Beach, VA
    I'm not seeing that.

    If you look at their SEC filings for last year:

    $238,179,000 = revenue earned

    $110,367,000 = money spent on R&D
    $001,780,000 = money spent on executive salaries

    Looks like TiVo spent 46% of their money on R&D and 1% on executive salaries.

    TiVo had 2.3M active subscribers last year. If you divide that by the executive salaries, it works out to 77ยข per subscriber. I'm guessing that if TiVo's execs worked for free, and all of their salary was passed along, you wouldn't even notice an offset the cost of the TiVo Service or hardware.

    Out of curiosity (since you have such a strong opinion on the matter), have you looked at their 2012 Annual Report that they filed with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission?

    Under the section "Risk Factors", they list this as the #1 risk towards their business:

    To me, that's precisely the reason behind how the TiVo mini was priced.
     
  10. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
    4
    Oct 31, 2007
    And as I said, it has nothing to do with a "service" per say, it goes to total cost of ownership. And when you look at the ratios of cost vs functionality it works. (1/3 the cost of the base Roamio)

    With the mini, TiVo gave up on multi TiVo homes for a hub and spoke (whole home) design.

    Also, when you compare to MSO offerings the pricing is very competitive.

    Everyone wants to compare TiVo to Apple TV and Roku, and unfortunately it isn't a fair comparison. TiVo is never going to move the number of units it would take to get that kind of scalability.

    And frankly TiVo adds more value - at least for me... I have an Apple TV at the house and I never use it anymore. I do use the mini in the bedroom almost everyday.
     
  11. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
    4
    Oct 31, 2007
    And to add...

    I am probably going to purchase another $250 mini to replace my 2 tuner Premiere. Now that FIOS is charging $6 for a cable card it doesn't make sense to sit on the value of that lifetime box any longer.

    I only mention this, because it shows both the value and usability of the box in that I would be willing to eliminate two tuners from my network.

    (Sale of 2TB lifetime Premiere will bring at least $300)
     
  12. d.susie798

    d.susie798 New Member

    7
    0
    Oct 23, 2013
    TiVo CEO Pay Rises 72 Percent: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tivo-ceo-pay-rises-72-569286

    Shareholders urged to challenge CEO pay: http://www.deadline.com/2013/07/tivo-shareholders-urged-challenge-ceo-compensation/

    Something is wrong with the way this company is being run. The CEO pay is just a part of it.
     
  13. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
    4
    Oct 31, 2007
    I just can't stand that populist garbage. Blame successful people because you don't get a bunch of free stuff.

    Work hard, bring value in the job you do and you will earn a good living as well.

    CEO's are the Michael Jordan's and Brett Favre's of their fields. You need to pay well to get a top player or the other team will offer him a better deal.

    Don't deliver and you will get cut!

    Ben and Jerry's tried to have a CEO cap while the co-founder was still at the helm, when he retired they had to recruit a new leader - the cap was abandoned.

    Only so many people have the "skills" for that job, and those people get rewarded for being the top "player" on the field.

    You are not a CEO for the same reason you aren't a professional athlete - you don't have the talent.
     
  14. aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Active Member

    1,062
    0
    Dec 30, 2002
    Va Beach, VA
    Have you actually researched his compensation to see where this "72% increase" actually came from?

    Two hints: it wasn't from his salary, and it wasn't from a bonus.

    Have you found another DVR that after four years costs you less than what buying a TiVo + Lifetime costs?

    Where I live, "leasing" a cable company 6-tuner DVR + three boxes for the bedrooms would cost $60/month. After four years, it would have cost me $2,880.

    Buying a TiVo Roamio Pro + 3 Minis (all with Lifetime) cost me $1,750.

    The TiVo solution saves me $1,000. Plus, I own all of the TiVo boxes, so if I want to upgrade, I sell, and the next cycle costs significantly less.
     
  15. jrtroo

    jrtroo User

    4,059
    5
    Feb 4, 2008
    Then, simply, do not buy it.

    You could purchase a lifetime premiere to stream to and skip the cablecard. But, that would be more than the $250 for the mini. Thus, its price point, for now, is probably good enough for their sales projections and cost structure. We are still in the early adopter tax period, so time may be on your side instead of cash.
     
  16. SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

    8,628
    11
    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    I wonder if the OP goes on BMW forums complaining that they should cost the same as their Chevy Cruze.
     
  17. TC25D

    TC25D New Member

    202
    0
    Aug 21, 2013
    Agree. The OP is a troll.
     
  18. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,180
    23
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Rich people?? The rich people are the ones paying all that money to the cable companies. Continuously paying them a monthly fee for their DVRs. That cost is much, much higher than what TiVo charges. If I had been using cable company DVRs during the last 6+ years that I've had FiOS it would have easily cost me four figures more. Plus it would have been a crappy experience.
     
  19. Strapped4Cash

    Strapped4Cash New Member

    9
    0
    Feb 29, 2008
    Dove Canyon, CA
    +2
     
  20. Davelnlr_

    Davelnlr_ Member

    523
    0
    Jan 12, 2011
    North...
    Why would a company operate at all, if all they can do each year is operate at a loss, that gets bigger and bigger? Seems rather fruitless. I know if my business was putting me millions in the hole every year, Id file bankruptcy and be done with it.
     

Share This Page