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Where is Stream for Android???

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream' started by dave060863, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Aug 9, 2013 #161 of 288
    ort

    ort Member

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    But only TiVo knows the numbers.

    If they know that 500,000 people downloaded their iOS app and they know that 250,000 people use it regularly... and they also know that 100,000 people downloaded the Android app and that 50,000 people use it regularly... then those are the only numbers that matter to them.

    Total marketshare is meaningless. You go to where your actual users are.



    EDIT:

    Looking at total reviews on both on the google play store and apple app store...

    Now reviews obviously aren't downloads or actual usage stats, but they should paint a general picture.

    Google Play
    Phone Version: 1,203 total reviews
    Tablet Version: 264 reviews

    Apple App Store
    Universal (iPhone + iPad) 4,956 total reviews

    Going by reviews I think it's fairly safe to say that iOS is roughly 3 times as popular amongst TiVo users.

    Going beyond that, it possible that the numbers are even further off, because I'd imagine that a very small percentage of users actually bother to review most apps, and the kind of engaged and concerned person who would is way more likely to leave separate reviews for both the phone and tablet versions of the Android app, slightly inflating the number when you add both together.

    Probably more notable though is that most of 264 android tablet reviews are 1 star reviews. The iOS app has a 4 star average, which, in the persnickety world of iOS app reviews is actually quite high. People who like an app and have no issues are way less likely to bother reviewing it. So it's pretty safe to guess that an overall larger percentage of android TiVo app users bothered to review it, throwing the numbers off even more.
     
  2. Aug 9, 2013 #162 of 288
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I think you haven't factor in that by default everyone who has bought a stream has downloaded the IOS app and most likely on multiple devices. - For Android users unless we want our phone/tablet to be the remote why would we bother with it? Not to mention as you indicated that most people using android have given the android apps bad ratings. So again why would an android user want to download a app with bad ratings that doesn't do much?
     
  3. Aug 9, 2013 #163 of 288
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    Tivo released their original iOS app 6 months before the Android version -- even longer if you count bug fixes that made the Android app friendly enough to use regularly. Furthermore, the Android app was not even designed with OS updates in mind. I remember receiving a Jelly Bean update and suddenly the Tivo app stopped working on my Galaxy Nexus. Clearly, the team responsible for the Android app really fell down on the job.

    Tivo's numbers are useful to know, but again, they suffer from a chicken and egg type situation with Android- app released later the iOS and buggy, and atmuscarella's point that without Stream support Android users have little reason to use what amounts to a glorified remote control.

    I'm not sure how much can really be read into online reviews. I suppose the most I can say is that Tivo created a nice app for iOS and created a ****ty app for Android.
     
  4. Aug 9, 2013 #164 of 288
    ort

    ort Member

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    Jan 5, 2004
    I really think the TiVo Stream has shipped out in minuscule numbers.

    I think it's more of a beta product or proof of concept at this point.
     
  5. Aug 9, 2013 #165 of 288
    ort

    ort Member

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    Which goes back to what I was saying before. TiVo doesn't want to make a bad Android app. They made a bad Android app because it was either harder to get it right than it was financially worth, or there simple weren't enough users to justify the time and expense of getting it right. Or more likely, a combination of both.

    Which makes it more obvious why they aren't pushing the Android version of stream out the door.

    More of their customers use iOS and it's cheaper to develop for it.

    Anyway, it's a free app. If you're a tech nerd and a TiVo user, you're pretty much guaranteed to at least check it out. Regardless of reviews or whether or not you have a Stream. And at this point, I would say that the vast majority of TiVo users are probably are tech nerds of some sort. You have to make a real conscious effort to be a TiVo customer these days. And supporting it is a pain compared to calling up the cable company and asking for a tech to come hook up a DVR. I bet TiVo customers, as a group, are some of the most well informed and savvy consumers out there. Tech geeks, home theater nerds, etc... You kind of have to be. People in that crowd are going to know the app exists and they are going to download it.
     
  6. mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    Tivo doesn't want to make a bad Android app because they already made a bad Android app and it is too hard and expensive to make a good Android app? :confused: I think it's a strategic mistake for Tivo to not prioritize a good, functional Anrdoid app with Stream support. To lead the market and increase customers, you don't abandon the most popular mobile OS in the world because it is cheaper to develop for iOS.

    I agree with your comments about Tivo users being tech nerds. You do really have to put effort into being a Tivo customer.
     
  7. button1066

    button1066 New Member

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    If there is no money to be made by doing this then it won't happen. Supporting Android devices is one step up from well meaning but pointless charity work as far as I can see. Android users might say they want more functionality but the truth is they aren't so willing to either pay for it or even use it if they are given it.
     
  8. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I would be interest in hearing how you decided that TiVo Premiere owners with android tablets and/or phones don't want to stream video from their Premiere DVRs to those devices :rolleyes:.
     
  9. button1066

    button1066 New Member

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Have you read the other comments on this thread or is your reading comprehension somewhat selective? I didn't even say that TiVo Android users wouldn't want to stream video did I?

    There are links that show Android tablet use is *bizarrely* low despite there being so many Android devices sold. Android apps sell less than iOS apps even though the potential market is larger. There are numerous complaints of the TiVo Android app being useless anyway (do YOU even use the thing LOL?) This is all on top of the explanations of the technical difficulties of trying to support Android.

    There is even a post by an Android user who explains the reasons he himself hates using his Android tablet.

    Real world Android use is miniscule compared to iOS. You have to do more than just ignore that particular elephant in the room otherwise there will never be an end to this particular discussion.
     
  10. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Yes I am guilty of selective reading; the topic of concern is being able to stream video from a TiVo Premiere to a android tablet or phone.

    I don't really care to debate anything about IOS versus Android but have responded to those who for some reason refuse to see that Android has move from a nearly irrelevant tablet operating system to the dominate one in the last 24 months. I certainly don't care what apps people buy or don't buy or what other uses (beyond streaming video from a TiVo Premiere) people have or don't have for their phones and tablets. When it comes to streaming video from a TiVo Premiere to a tablet or phone all of that other stuff is really irrelevant.

    Regarding the current TiVo android app - it seems to do what they designed it to do, but it is irrelevant or worthless to me as I find no need to use my tablet as a remote control and the same would be true if I had an IOS device and that was all the IOS app did.
     
  11. button1066

    button1066 New Member

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Well that stuff is not really 'irrelevant' when it has been pointed out a gazillion times that it fully explains why you are unable to stream from your TiVo to your Android device.


    So what exactly DO people use their Android devices for? Doorstops? Every reply from Android users in this thread just reinforces my impression that these devices are just not used. At all. And believe it or not I didn't start with that opinion.

    Also, I can't help but be amused at the fact that you even say the TiVo Android app is 'irrelevant' to you. There is a severe logic fail going on here. This thread is about streaming to the TiVo app which is not supported on Android. Do you want streaming or not? Is it relevant to you or not?
     
  12. button1066

    button1066 New Member

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    Sep 4, 2012
    I looked the TiVo app up on the Amazon app store for Android. It does more than function as a remote control. It has pretty good reviews as well.

    Conclusion: Android users just hate Android. At least the TiVo ones. You can lead them to the apps but they just won't use them.
     
  13. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I'm not sure that logic really applies. The Stream provides a very specific function. If someone buys a Stream then they will use the app, regardless of the usage statistics for their specific platform.

    I really think the problem here is technical. People can argue that TiVo was short sighted, but as it stands the Stream uses a video technology that is only supported correctly on iOS. The only way they can "fix" that is to either a) license a 3rd party SDK or b) completely change the underlining technology they use. Both options have drawbacks. Licensing an SDK is probably easier, but could potentially cost more money especially if it has a per seat cost. Plus they have to deal with support from another company and potential issues that might crop up if that company does not stay abreast of any compatibility issues with future OS updates. Completely changing the technology is obviously a lot harder, plus there are issues with getting approval from CableLabs and having to deal with updating the Stream hardware as well as the app to support this new technology.

    If Android properly supported encrypted HLS natively I'm betting they would have Android support available already. Because it doesn't they're stuck with one of the above options which makes development more difficult and more costly. If sales of the Stream have not been great then they may just decide it's not worth the cost.
     
  14. button1066

    button1066 New Member

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    Sep 4, 2012
    It could give them a reason/excuse to use their Android device?

    I don't know. If Android owners hate turning the things as much as it seems they do then I doubt the temptation to buy a device that streams video to them would be hard for them to resist.

    There is no obvious reason why a Stream enhanced TiVo app would interest Android users more than all the other apps they don't bother with.

    To be honest the best analysis I read of Android speculated that its sales are skewed to more price conscious people who are not overly interested in the technology per se and instead just want cheaper gadgets. Not really the average TiVo user I would imagine.
     
  15. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    The opinions we all post on this forum are just that opinions. We may guess correctly or not, and likely will never know one way or another. If this thread has correctly stumbled upon the reasons TiVo does not currently support streaming to Android devices will never be known (I think Dan has actually outlined the likely reasons quit well). In the end the reasons TiVo does not support streaming to android devices are irrelevant to android devices owners. all that matters is we are not getting support for streaming to android devices.
    I would assume Android device users use their devices for whatever they want just the same as IOS devices users do. I would also assume that the way the Android devices are advertised and reviewed allot of the use has to do with streaming video.

    What does not wanting to use an app that makes my tablet a poor remote controls have to do with wanting to streaming video to it? I certainly would like the option to stream video to it and would have purchased a Stream if it worked with my tablet.

    I am not loyal to products or companies and use what ever product or device that I think makes sense to me. At this point have have no desire to have a phone or tablet replace a computer or TV so yes I do not use my Tablet extensively but I do use it pretty much every day and have about 150 apps on it of which I would guess I use maybe 5-10 regularly and the others not so much. I am typing this on a computer because dual 24 inch monitors and a full size keyboard and mouse work better for me than a 7 inch tablet screen even with the blue tooth keyboard and mouse I bought for it. If I were sitting in my Gazebo streaming video to my tablet would certainly work better than bring my TV out their on the other hand streaming video to my tablet in my living room in front of my TV seems pretty foolish to me.
     
  16. mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    The focus for Tivo should be bringing new customers into their tv ecosystem and retaining existing customers. Providing an app that works with the majority of smartphones in this country and the rapidly growing tablet market should be a priority, not an afterthought. Again, market trends for smart phones were clear years ago. Tablet trends are going the same direction.

    Even if the 'analysis' that Android users are price conscious consumers is accurate and the real reason why these users are different than iOS users, it shouldn't matter to Tivo since, again, they are appealing to grow their business, not shrink it by sticking with iOS support only. The Tivo app is free on both platforms, and unless the plan is to begin charging for it, it doesn't matter if one market is more price sensitive. Almost everyone watches tv, and many people want a DVR.

    Frankly, the 'analysis' about iOS vs Android users is being continuously misused and misinterpreted to support preconceived notions about superiority of the Apple brand and its more expensive products. Apple still has snob appeal, although like its market share, even that is waning.
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    But the Stream is really not intended for phones. It works on phones, but it's geared toward tablets. And 2 years ago when they were designing it Android tablets barely even existed. Now things are changing, but in the US Apple still holds the lead. Unfortunately they've now hit a technological barrier so adding Android support is not as easy as they had probably originally anticipated.
     
  18. button1066

    button1066 New Member

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    Sep 4, 2012
    And you will go on assuming that despite all evidence to the contrary won't you?

    You're going off on a bit of a tangent here. Little too much unsolicited information about your personal life so I'll just stop here.

    For the record the Android app does way more than function as 'a poor remote control'. I have sympathy for Android users who enjoy and get good use out of their devices and who want more TiVo functionality but it really does turn out that these people are in short supply. I'm amazed at how the stereotypes stack up and I honestly used to think I would end up buying an Android device. Dodged a bullet I think.
     
  19. button1066

    button1066 New Member

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    You grow a business with 'price conscious' people by selling Mcdoubles not Filet Mignon. Try to fob a Filet Mignon off on an Android user and he'll be lecturing you about how 'irrelevant' and 'worthless' steak is in no time. And telling you about his Gazebo.

    The analysis alluded to above of Android users is that they are not just Mcdouble eaters but also intimidated by and resistant to geeky tech stuff.

    I honestly don't think Apple has much to worry about in terms of a market for its products in the near future. The way to beat them will be to innovate with something better not swamp the market with cheaper devices that no-one uses.
     
  20. tlc

    tlc Member

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    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324108204579024853407128012.html

    Of course, it doesn't explicitly say it will work with the Stream.

    As for streaming outside the home:
     

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