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when will tivo fix "program info will runout on 7-18-2011 connect to tivo" problem

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by tootal2, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. Oct 5, 2011 #121 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
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    Jan 11, 2009
    Of course, meant to say 2GB not 2TB

     
  2. Oct 5, 2011 #122 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
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    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    I also have TWC. Related?? Anybody out there have this issue on a system other than TWC??
     
  3. Oct 5, 2011 #123 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
    0
    Jan 11, 2009
  4. Oct 5, 2011 #124 of 730
    trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
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    Sep 14, 2009
    I'm also on TWC with Cisco TA, here's my saga:

    I had experienced no issues prior to attaching a Cisco TA to my upgraded 1TB TivoHD with MCard. Life was swell!


    In ~July 2008, I got a Cisco Tuning Adapter. Very soon (I suppose ~7 days) I got my very first "Guide Data running low" message. Quickly figured out that rebooting "fixed" the issue.
    Eventually, I unplugged the TA and life was back to normal. (only had limited # of SDV channels)
    In early 2010, TWC moved bunch of kiddie channels to SDV, I had no choice but to hook TA back up... Hello "Guide Data Running Low"...

    I read this and other forums and swapped my drive out with a new one (Identical drive that is in Tivo XL) S03 came back... (People stop telling me that my drive is faulty)

    Tivo told me that this issue only affected very few customers, so I assumed this may have been a Hardware fault. Maybe a bad batch or I had an early model that had an issue since resolved in newer revisions.

    ... However, now I own 3 of these badboys! (one in 2010 and one in 2011, they were practically free with lifetime subs)

    3 Tivo HDs manufactured years apart, all of them having this issue!
     
  5. Oct 5, 2011 #125 of 730
    trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
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    Sep 14, 2009
    I tried Teeps' suggestion to disable network connection (sorta)

    Friday 9/30
    - Ran Channel Line Up Fix to trigger GC
    - Firewalled off Guide Data Server, to make my guide connections fail
    - (I already had my channel list paired down to ~600 stations prior to this test)

    Saturday 10/1
    - I verified that my initial indexing successfully completed
    - Enabled network connection and did a regular tivo connection to download guide data
    - Firewalled off Guide Data Server, to make my guide connections fail

    Tivo was completely left alone (I'm several states away)

    Wednesday 10/5
    Had wife check System Information Screen for me
    - Tivo made a connection and successfully downloaded guide data today (I set up my firewall to allow tivo to connect on wednesdays)
    - GC Date is still stuck on 9/30


    This didn't work for me, but I also deviated from what Teeps' did.

    I'll be home in a few days and will check my logs for clues...


     
  6. Oct 5, 2011 #126 of 730
    trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
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    Sep 14, 2009
    ... See my comments in red


    Ravingfans has been kind enough to share his logs with me. I can confirm that 3 out of 5 garbage collect + full indexing runs completed successfully for him. (1 attempt appears to failed due to a "forced" daily call, the 2nd attempt has failed due to the mysterious exit code eMfsTooFast).

    As he pointed out, this is happening on a 2TB drive that is 97% full. I cannot produce a single successful gc + index on 3 TivoHDs and he had 3 successful runs in one week.


    To be honest, I can't come up with a reason why creating a 2GB swap fixes this issue or even makes ANY difference.

    According to Ravingfans' testing,
    1GB swap = no joy
    2GB swap = joy

    Default swap is 128Mbytes and this appears to be working for majority of tivo owners. I would expect us "minority" users to be barely over this limit and increasing swap just by a few Mbytes would resolve this problem. 2GB is 16x the default swap...


    If swap space was an issue, I would expect to see tivo's ram to be full and swap being near full. Instead, I find that RAM has 3-4Mbytes of free space with a bunch of leftover stuff being cached. (linux doesn't like free ram, instead it will cache stuff for future use if there is unused RAM). The swap file sometimes has 1-2 Mbyte stored in it but the remaining 126 MBytes are reported as Free.

    If Tivo would ever fill up RAM + swap, I should see kernel panics + reboots happening.


    The only situation where a large swap file would make a difference is when you want to allocate a large contiguous memory range. Since default RAM + swap is 256Mbytes, why would Tivo ever want to allocate 1GB+. Besides all this data is stored in a database where you can individually manipulate data elements minimizing any resource requirements.


    So, instead of trying to rationalize why this works for him, I will check my bottom drawer for an extra drive and try it myself...


     
  7. Oct 5, 2011 #127 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
    0
    Jan 11, 2009
    (1 attempt appears to failed due to a "forced" daily call, the 2nd attempt has failed due to the mysterious exit code eMfsTooFast).

    The forced daily call (10-1-2011) and mfstoofast were right after I successfully divorced the external drive during a separate experiment (trying to go from 2TB to 2.25TB). Since then I've been testing continuously with no forced connect attempts.

    BTW, very good points on memory and swap, perhaps it is an internal structure or pointer related to TWC TA's out of control that consumes gobs of space, but cleans up nicely? When you look at memory is it during steady state or after a GC/Indexing run?
     
  8. Oct 5, 2011 #128 of 730
    MC Hammer

    MC Hammer New Member

    177
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    Jul 28, 2011
    Is there anybody experiencing this issue with a Motorola TA? I browsed through from the beginning and only saw Cisco TAs being mentioned.
     
  9. Oct 6, 2011 #129 of 730
    chrisdfw

    chrisdfw New Member

    15
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    Dec 4, 2008
    I am TWC with a Moto TA
     
  10. Oct 6, 2011 #130 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
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    Jan 11, 2009
    mine is Moto TA in DFW with TWC
     
  11. Oct 6, 2011 #131 of 730
    trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
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    Sep 14, 2009
    Memory-
    I checked memory usage a few dozen times while dbgc was and was not running. Memory always appeared to be healthy and I never considered it to be an issue.

    CPU-
    I messed around with scheduling priorities for garbage collection to see if it was CPU starved but the CPU is usually not that busy. (Tivo's design is ingenious and most I/O operations bypass the mips cpu core, leaving it underwhelmed with tasks. (Search on line for the broadcom chip used in series 3 to read about the architecture.)

    HD-
    I probably tried 6-7 different Hard drives from Hitachi, Seagate and WD. They were all 7,200 RPM drives with 8, 16 or 32MB cache with 1TB - 1.5TB capacity. (I would only partition up to WinMFS' limit and leave ~0.15TB free on a 1.5TB drive)
    None of these drives seemed to eliminate this issue, but I do think that different drives take longer than others to end up with S03 error.

    I think my Tivo #1 with Hard drive identical to the XL model's drive tends to go 6-9 months before I would get an S03 error. (I put that Tivo on a timer to reboot daily to keep the guide to date moving and it is almost bearable to clear & delete guide data/reenter season passes once a year)

    My 2 newer TivoHDs only last a couple months (maybe 3) before getting S03 errors. (#2 has Seagate 1.5TB 7,200 RPM Drive, #3 has 1TB 7,200RPM WD drive) #3 went S03 in less than a month after I got it!

    Ravingfan, would you share HD drive model you are using, RPM and cache size? My hunch is you're using the drive from a 2TB WD Elements external drive ;)

     
  12. Oct 6, 2011 #132 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
    0
    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    So it appears any tuning adapter is an issue. I still haven't seen anybody from a non-TWC system say they have the problem.

    Come on, I know you're out there. :D
     
  13. Oct 6, 2011 #133 of 730
    MC Hammer

    MC Hammer New Member

    177
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    Jul 28, 2011
    The only theory I can come up with is that channel map updates from the TA adversely affect the box's ability to run GC. However, not knowing where on the hard drive the map updates are stored, I can't offer any quantifiable information that would support this theory.

    Can someone experiencing this issue with a Cisco TA post your Serial Link Anomalies diagnostic screen?
     
  14. Oct 6, 2011 #134 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
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    Jan 11, 2009
    Ravingfan, would you share HD drive model you are using, RPM and cache size? My hunch is you're using the drive from a 2TB WD Elements external drive


    I have a WD Caviar Green 2TB SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive WD20EARS - OEM, 5400 RPM. I've actually had very good results with all WD HDD's as long as the idle timeout was cleared with the WDIDLE3 utility. Tried a Seagate drive ($20 cheaper) but could never get the idle timeout cleared, so went back to WD. In one of my other TiVo's I have a Hitachi, and it works fine, but it is louder.

    My personal opinion is drive type doesn't matter except for with head parking/idle timeout issues, but those issues result in lockup/freeze issues long before the S03 error would ever hit.

    Also, one more data point: In my case, the S03 error occurred on basically the second or third TiVo Service connection after restoring from either the original 250GB (never had a TA installed on it) or the WK upgraded 1TB + 1TB pair images using WinMFS when I had swap partition set to less than 2GB. It did not take the months and months you described. I haven't seen S03 with the 2GB swap partition.

    It had not occurred to me that the "program info running out" message/reboot every two weeks process was associated with the TA's until reading this thread, although now that I think about it, my problems started pretty soon after installing the TA.
     
  15. Oct 7, 2011 #135 of 730
    Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,665
    4
    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...

    Thank you. As did my problem with guide data running out.
    TiVo support denies that the T/A has any influence on this problem.
    They insist it's a HDD problem.
    TiVo support says hdd either faulty or corrupt...
     
  16. Oct 8, 2011 #136 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
    0
    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    Total BS. I have proven that my system runs great with the tuning adapter disconnected.
     
  17. Oct 8, 2011 #137 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
    0
    Jan 11, 2009
    Interesting point, I missed that in this thread. So that means I should be able to go back to my original WK 1TB + 1TB configuration with the S03 error, unplug the TA and it should complete the Guided Setup? I'll try that in a bit...
     
  18. Oct 8, 2011 #138 of 730
    MC Hammer

    MC Hammer New Member

    177
    0
    Jul 28, 2011
    Bump for someone's Serial Link Anomalies screen.
     
  19. Oct 8, 2011 #139 of 730
    trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
    0
    Sep 14, 2009
    Not sure, I haven't seen anything posted about being able to break out of S03 guided set up loop by disconnecting TA. Please try and let us know.

    If it doesn't work, you do have a couple other options to try:
    - option 1: update state/phoneconfig to show that you completed guided set up. reboot and do a clear and delete program info (you could use fakecall)
    - option 2: Kill off UI and run mfscheck. guided set up should be able to complete.


     
  20. Oct 8, 2011 #140 of 730
    trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
    0
    Sep 14, 2009
    Tell them that your Tivo is experiencing issues caused by Tivo bug #86335.

     

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