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when will tivo fix "program info will runout on 7-18-2011 connect to tivo" problem

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by tootal2, Jul 13, 2011.

  1. MC Hammer

    MC Hammer New Member

    177
    0
    Jul 28, 2011
    trackie999, is there any evidence of what IS taking place during Preparing on daily conmections? I've always wondered why the length of time on that stage of the connection seems to vary so much.
     
  2. Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
    4
    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...

    My bad.
    The GC date changes, to that of, when Channel Line Up fix is run. But, it sticks on the new GC date until... the Channel Line Up fix is repeated...

    Or,

    Until disconnecting TiVo from internet as stated. (Thanks to Tootal2 for the internet d/c tip.)
     
  3. trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
    0
    Sep 14, 2009
    I was able to set up my router to block one of my TivoHD's access to tivo's guide server at 204.176.49.2 except on Wednesdays.

    Blocking this IP address is enough to make daily call fail, but allows other services like Netflix and Youtube to keep working. (I initially blocked the entire 204.176.49.x subnet and neither Netflix or Youtube would work)

    GC Date on this Tivo is currently stock on 9/23. I will let it cook for a couple days now....
     
  4. trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
    0
    Sep 14, 2009
    MC Hammer- I'll answer this question, but I'd like to keep this thread on topic.
    I believe there are 6 different types of calls with phases 1-8 (phase 0 is call not active). Not all phases happen during each call.

    Phase 1 - Call is started, compress and encrypt various log files
    Compile list of TV Stations (~7.5mins for my trimmed down 604 stations)
    Garbage Collect during set up type calls. (This can vary wildly)
    Phase 2 - I do not recall what this phase is. (my calls never have a phase 2)
    Phase 3 - Make connection, with ethernet it takes maybe 1 second
    Phase 4 - Connect + authenticate + set clock + upload files
    Phase 5 - Download guide & other files
    Phase 6 - Hang up / Disconnect
    Phase 7 - Loading Data 0% -> 100%, Strange thing is GC is disabled, Enabled twice during this process. Why not just keep it off?
    Phase 8 - Organizing Phase (run quick indexing after a channel list / guided set up)
    Update Call Results, set dates. If successful, update dates send GC_INDEX_SOON request to dbgc.
    Phase 0 - Call done / No call Active

    So compiling channel list and a potential GC can make "preparing to connect" take forever.

     
  5. Oct 2, 2011 #105 of 730
    pninen

    pninen New Member

    103
    0
    Jun 25, 2003
    Thank you for all the good info.

    So sad that TiVo hasn't been able to figure this out sooner. I placed several calls to TiVo a couple of months ago about the S03 problem, and they don't know this stuff. They kept telling me to run kickstart 57 and delete everything (requiring four hours of manually reentering season passes).
     
  6. Oct 2, 2011 #106 of 730
    pninen

    pninen New Member

    103
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    Jun 25, 2003
    I just did this. Answered the questions (default answers)

    It's been "preparing..." for 1hr 30min so far.

    How long do I wait?

    When should I give up and reboot?
     
  7. Oct 2, 2011 #107 of 730
    trackie999

    trackie999 New Member

    89
    0
    Sep 14, 2009
    pninen,
    It may take up to 12 hours for preparing to connect, be patient.
     
  8. Oct 2, 2011 #108 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
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    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    This past Monday I returned from an extended vacation. Before I left, I was having the GC problem, but the channel change fix from Teeps was fixing it. I disconnected the tuning adapter before I left. 11 days later when I returned, the GC was totally current, but I had missed some recording on channels that I did not realize were SDV. I had assumed only HD channels were affected, but this was a plain digital channel. I guess TWC really needs the bandwidth. Since I have turned on the tuning adapter, the symptoms have returned.

    At any rate, this totally confirms for me, which we already knew, that the tuning adapter is the culprit. What I don't understand is why does it only affect an apparently small number of users? For me, it started last April when I upgraded from a 1 TB drive to a 2 TB drive. I have no idea why - plenty of others have also upgraded with no problems - I assume SOME of those people have tuning adapters. And why was the 1 TB upgrade working perfectly?

    I'm waiting to hear from Teeps if the internet disconnect does anything permanent. It makes sense to me that it would work one time based on what trackie999 said about timing of GC updates, but it would seem that once the internet was back to being connected permanently, the symptoms would return.

    We shall see. In the meantime, the channel fix seems to be the best solution. Thanks Teeps.
     
  9. Oct 2, 2011 #109 of 730
    Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
    4
    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    :thumbsdown: No joy.
    I just checked GC and it was still at Wednesday 28Sept2011.

    TiVo had successfully connected to internet Sunday 2Oct2011 @ 0242 hrs PST.
    The internet was disconnected today @ 0803 hrs PST.
    Note: At this time, the "Channel Line Up" fix was not executed.

    Should know in a couple of days if GC changes.
     
  10. Oct 2, 2011 #110 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
    0
    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    I predict that it will change. Then when you re-connect it will fail again.

    I'm debating whether the best fix for me is to do the channel fix every few days or disconnect for a day or two every few days.
     
  11. Oct 2, 2011 #111 of 730
    tootal2

    tootal2 New Member

    1,252
    0
    Oct 14, 2005
    You can permanently delete everythng in the recently deleted folder. it does seem to help.

    Just press clear and then press select to delete the programs

     
  12. Oct 2, 2011 #112 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
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    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    I've been keeping my folder pretty empty. Doesn't seem to help me.
     
  13. Oct 2, 2011 #113 of 730
    pninen

    pninen New Member

    103
    0
    Jun 25, 2003
    Thank you. It finally finished, and my TiVo works again!

    It is just astonishing how long this takes. (Computers execute BILLIONS of instructions per second!) Does this garbage collection run starved for memory?
     
  14. Oct 3, 2011 #114 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
    0
    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    I am going to assume that your GC date was pretty old, and there was a lot of garbage to collect. You should monitor the GC date, and if it doesn't update regularly, do the channel fix every 3 days or so. Then the "preparing to connect" doesn't take too long.
     
  15. Oct 4, 2011 #115 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
    0
    Jan 11, 2009
    Can you all confirm the current theory on S03 failure mode as follows:

    • Indexing and GC take a very long time on a TiVo with Tuning Adapter, presumably because the Tuning Adapter opens up many more channels than before available, requiring more guide data and info to index and GC on.
    • If the GC takes longer than 24 hours, then a chron job of some sort kills it and restarts it, therefore once the TiVo enters this loop it can never get out
    • GC must complete in order for the TiVo to successfully load guide data in the last step of connecting to the TiVo's servers, and therefore the TiVo never successfully connects to the server and fails with the S03 error
    • A manual restart of the TiVo either causes GC to complete or clear the GC Flag, which gets the TiVo out of the GC restart loop and the S03 error loop
    • Eventually there is so much Garbage to collect that even restarting does not get the TiVo out of the S03 loop

    My solution of increasing the Swap partition, which has been solid for me so far the last month or so, suggests that the TiVo is thrashing during GC and/or indexing. I think the limited memory budget is too small and the TiVo has to swap too much to process the large amount of GC and/or indexing data before the chron jobs restarts it.

    Your thoughts?
     
  16. Oct 5, 2011 #116 of 730
    WO312

    WO312 Active Member

    1,372
    0
    Jan 24, 2003
    Finger...
    Thanks for the post. Any attempt to get to the bottom of the problem is refreshing, like trackie999 did earlier.

    In my opinion, it sounds plausible, but I have a few questions/comments:

    1. I doubt that the tuning adapter adds THAT many more channels compared to the huge list of channels that I have available. I think it's something else associated with the tuning adapter

    2. If this is correct, shouldn't this be happening on every Tivo with a tuning adapter (and presumably an upgraded drive)? Why such an apparently small number of machines being affected?

    3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.

    4. If swap file size matters, any way to change it? I don't recall even an option of selecting the size with the jfms method that you need for a 2 TB drive.

    5. If the larger swap size is working for you, did you have the problem before on a different, upgraded drive?
     
  17. Oct 5, 2011 #117 of 730
    MC Hammer

    MC Hammer New Member

    177
    0
    Jul 28, 2011
    The only thing the TA is sending to the Tivo are channel map updates. These are not related to the Tivo Channel List.
     
  18. Oct 5, 2011 #118 of 730
    denispelletier

    denispelletier New Member

    6
    0
    Jan 25, 2009
    Cary, NC
    I also have this problem (Cary, NC with Time Warner and TivoHD with upgraded hard drive) and tried de-selecting a bunch of channels (everything below 900) and it has not made a difference so far. The GC date is not updating. It's now about one week behind, which correspond to the last time I did the channel lineup trick.
     
  19. Oct 5, 2011 #119 of 730
    chrisdfw

    chrisdfw New Member

    15
    0
    Dec 4, 2008
    I am trying the only letting TiVo connect once a week option. If more users have success with the new swap file size I will try it. I have tried 1GB and did not see a change. With JMS and 2TB drive you will need to take a back up with WinMSF and then restore it to another drive change the swap file size then use JMS to copy that drive to your old one and then back to WinMSF to supersize. I think this is all tied into the suggestion bug too. On a clean drive the suggestions stop when the GC stops updating. You can force a update but the suggestions never return. One other note….. TivoGuy where are you….
     
  20. Oct 5, 2011 #120 of 730
    ravingfans

    ravingfans New Member

    48
    0
    Jan 11, 2009
    My Comments to WO312's questions below:

    Thanks for the post. Any attempt to get to the bottom of the problem is refreshing, like trackie999 did earlier.

    Trackie999 is looking at my daily logs to confirm if this is a viable path for y'all.

    In my opinion, it sounds plausible, but I have a few questions/comments:

    1. I doubt that the tuning adapter adds THAT many more channels compared to the huge list of channels that I have available. I think it's something else associated with the tuning adapter

    Probably true. Guess on my part as to the reason for the Tuning Adapter association with the problem--I'm open to other theories.

    2. If this is correct, shouldn't this be happening on every Tivo with a tuning adapter (and presumably an upgraded drive)? Why such an apparently small number of machines being affected?

    Might be just a matter of time, but the common points appear to be Tuning Adapter, large upgraded drive. I'm wondering what the population of upgraded S3 and up TiVo's is, and how many just give up on the problem?

    3. If it IS related to a large number of channels, can I eliminate the problem by de-selecting channels from the channel list? I only use a small number of channels.

    de-selecting channels did not work for me on either the old disks or the new disk. I also tried through guided setup to switch to a remote area of the country with limited channel selections and it had no effect.

    4. If swap file size matters, any way to change it? I don't recall even an option of selecting the size with the jfms method that you need for a 2 TB drive.

    I don't know with JMFS, since I have the original S3 TiVo, that tool is not an option for me. I used WinMFS on a new 2TB drive, and it does allow you the option to set the swap partition to an arbitrary value. I had trouble one time with 4GB of swap--I think I made some other error on that run, but I've found 2GB to be quite solid. I tried 512MB and 1TB once or twice, but they didn't change the behavior.

    My thought is on an existing drive it will be quite tricky to change the swap partition without affecting other partitions. Likely you will lose recordings etc--basically anything on partitions past the swap partition which is partition 8. The next partition, 9, is /var which is no biggie to lose, just will lose any logs and also hacks you have installed in that partition, as TiVo will just rebuild it on the next restart. The problem with that though is /var is only 256MB typically, and partition 10, 11 and 12 are in the same range of size and they are the MFS application and MFS media regions. Changing the swap on an already built drive will be tricky to say the least. The path I took was to pick up a 2TB Drive which allows me to keep my shows and settings intact and migrate when I'm ready. Also gives me troubleshooting options if something doesn't go perfectly ;-)

    5. If the larger swap size is working for you, did you have the problem before on a different, upgraded drive?

    I had the S03 problem on my original setup which was Weaknees 1TB internal + 1TB external (working for 3 years reliably). Then when I set up a new 2TB drive, the problem persisted even when restoring from the original 250GB drive that came in the S3 as well as the upgraded 1TB + 1TB configuration. This is when I started trying different swap partition sizes.
     

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