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What can we reasonably expect from the App Store?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by anthonymoody, Oct 18, 2013.

  1. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    Roku doesn't do cable, doesn't do cable cards, and doesn't do SDV. For TiVo to do those things, they have to allow themselves to be bullied by the cable industry.
     
  2. apw2607

    apw2607 New Member

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    Generally speaking. I think tivo really now need to step up their app support. The tv ad they run where they claim tivo can take the place of your cable box, Apple TV, roku, etc is misleading.

    Tivos app support currently is pathetic. Sorry Margret and team. But it is, and samsung have tivo in their sights ...

    http://www.engadget.com/2013/10/17/netflix-confirmed-samsung-smart-cable-box/

    http://apps.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7022415501

    Although the SSMP has no local DVR capability, who's to say they don't offer a cloud based service that the boxee box tried to provide.

    http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2013-09/samsungs-smart-media-player-come-boxee-dvr/
     
  3. TimA

    TimA New Member

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    Wow, everyone has high expectations for the App Store - I bet we'll see stuff like Candy Crush.
     
  4. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    I am not optimistic about it either.
     
  5. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    The cable industry doesn't have to bully TiVo. TiVo will ultimately do whatever the cable industry wants because they don't want to jeopardize current and future partnerships.
     
  6. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    TiVo isn't going to develop any of these apps - although, I am sure they will have an approval process. These apps will be developed by third party developers...

    So, I guess the real question is: what app are you planning on developing?

    I am waiting to see what kind of API's are available. Do we have Search and Video playback API's???
     
  7. hooper

    hooper Member

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    My samsung tv has every app I need except WatchESPN. They added Vevo last week. Damn Disney and their cozy relationship with MSFT and Apple. WatchESPN is great because you get all the college basketball and football games that aren't airing locally, plus the ability to watch games after they aired. I use it on the xbox but it requires a stupid gold subscription.
     
  8. anthonymoody

    anthonymoody New Member

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    It was this Samsung box that prompted my thinking, which in turn prompted my OP. No DVR as you said but a cloud DVR is certainly possible. And, given Samsungs broader product lines you could easily imagine them ultimately dropping a bluray drive into it. Then you really do have a one box possibility (unless you're a big iTunes household in which case you'll likely always also need an ATV).

    Edit: I know that the one box world I posit doesn't likely include plex or xbmc but I've always considered those things to be sort of fringe. Perhaps incredibly useful but adopted by no more than an extremely small % of people. No insult intended.
     
  9. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    Yes. And they are good at it. They can yank cable card support, which is the ultimate threat. And cable companies can make support a nightmare for your non-cable-company equipment. Cable companies *tolerate* but dislike TiVo. They want you to use THEIR OWN equipment, something they can completely control, not something you own.

    As far as fighting non-cable-TV, they already want to restrict IP traffic that competes with their own services. And since the cable TV companies are typically the monopoly that is also your sole reasonable ISP choice, they have a lot of power to control rate/flow AND price. They are also in a position, as an industry, to put tons of pressure on content creators.

    We created this monster.
    It is becoming an obsolete model.

    Don't get me wrong, I don't want everything to be streaming- there are lots of issues. I would much rather just TRANSFER content straight to my DVR via IP, on demand, where it is stored temporarily, and play it locally how I choose. But I don't see why this requires me paying for hundreds of channels of simultaneous content I don't want.
     
  10. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    I don't think it is nearly that nepharious.

    Yes, the cable companies are all about maximizing profit. And the content owners are very aggressive in protecting their content. But I don't think they really care what cable box you choose to use at this point.

    And as I said, tivo has been able to play local content for time in memorial. Specific cable companies may decide to exclude features or apps from their MSO supplied TiVo's, but they don't give a flying leap what the retail units offer.

    Just as the MSO units cannot allow Netflix based on contracts with content owners - that restriction has no impact on retail TiVo's

    - sorry for any typo's, this was from my phone.
     
  11. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    I don't either, really. I am just pointing out how it COULD be. What potential exists. And some of what has happened. Plus I doubt all cable companies are the same.
     
  12. apw2607

    apw2607 New Member

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    Yes, the moment I read you original post I immediately thought of the samsung media box I had read about a day or so ago on engadget.

    Nothing like some extra competition! Tivo could completely dominate this playing field if they got their app support up to date. What no one has done so far very well is universal search across live tv and cloud based services.

    Googletv anyone ... ? Yikes. No thanks.
     
  13. innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    You don't consider the Time Warner live TV app on the Roku access to cable?

    Don't get me wrong I am not in any way optimistic about any good apps ever coming to TiVo boxes. All I really want is better support and documentation that programs like PyTiVo and KMTTG can take access to.

    Plex at least on Roku can't fast forward to my liking for streamed content. My slim hope is at some point that TiVo or someone can recreate playback on local content that is on par with TiVo to TiVo streaming and trickplay. Until it feels like a local recording streaming isn't for me.
     
  14. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    No. It has commercials and you can't skip them because you can't store the video so I don't consider it access to cable. It is a partial and far more restricted access to cable content only.

    The industry LOVES streaming because it means they can force feed customers exactly what the companies want, when they want, and how they want. All while DRM'ing to death to make sure you can't store it or shift it to other devices or access it non-live.

    I am not fond of the cable TV model, but I am not fond of the streaming-only model either. My ideal system would be one in which all content is delivered via IP to any device I want. It is requested and downloaded either on demand or scheduled. It is stored locally for however long I want so I can watch it how and when I want, skip or replay anything I want, and with or without a live internet connection. Payment can be by subscription or a-la-carte or something.

    So far the only thing I have seen that comes anywhere near close to the above is the traditional Amazon video (NOT PRIME).
     
  15. Devx

    Devx New Member

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    I'm not looking forward to remote streaming apps and that's mostly because I already have other devices that can handle those and do it well. I know that some do, but I don't personally find switching inputs that difficult or cumbersome.

    That said, I would like to see Tivo truly support 3rd party development on the app store by providing interfaces for other parties to hook in and improve the experience. If remote streaming apps use this app store, Amazon, HBO, ESPN, Showtime, Hulu, etc., then great but I would rather see something new and innovative on the platform that isn't readily available on Roku or Apple TV.

    Maybe with the app store a developer can improve on what we already have as well. Like an updated, modern, music player. A new photo viewer to round out the experience wouldn't hurt either.
     
  16. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Devx

    Yes - but everyone needs to understand that TiVo itself isn't an open source project. We are not going to be changing or improving or customizing anything 'TiVo". I am sure that isn't what you meant, I just wanted to make it clear.

    I do think there are a number of opportunities to expand on the old HME app platform and as you mentioned, create some really very cool companion apps - as I said before a big benefit would be if TiVo made some of their API's available like search and video player.
     
  17. Devx

    Devx New Member

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    Atlanta, GA
    Reading my post again, I can see how it could probably be interpreted in some unintended ways. Let's see if I can clean it up a bit.

    By experience, I meant the overall experience, not specifically the experience while using the Tivo core DVR UI. To clarify, I'm not expecting any changes to core functionality or the Tivo HDUI through the app store. Instead, just based on experience with current 3rd party apps, developers are already taking advantage of what Tivo exposes to its own apps. The current 3rd party apps improve the experience by providing what Tivo doesn't, or doesn't do as well. It would be great if Tivo expanded on that and provided additional supported interfaces for apps in the app store.

    A point I should have added to my previous post is regardless of what Tivo does with the app store, they still need to protect core functionality. It won't matter how great a new app is if it can manage to destabilize the platform and there are box reboots, missing recordings, etc.
     
  18. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    TiVo will not only protect their core functionality they will also protect the TiVo brand, which means no skinning of the UI or replacing core functionality with aftermarket apps. It is entirely possible that another media player (Plex etc) will become available for TiVo, but I certainly am not holding my breath expecting it to happen.
     
  19. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    Sep 21, 2004
    Don't we already know what apps to expect? It should be almost the same apps that are available in the Opera TV Store since it is using that SDK. I assume it may require those companies to re-submit them to TiVo but maybe not.
     
  20. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Opera is still a relatively immature platform as far as apps go, and we don't know if there are any TiVo specific framework code that will be required for apps to be included in the TiVo App Store.

    I think people are considering what cool things "might" be developed.
     

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