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Watching live TV on TiVo Mini after DTA update

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by AdamfromChi, Oct 30, 2013.

  1. AdamfromChi

    AdamfromChi New Member

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    Jan 11, 2005
    My TiVo Premiere was updated yesterday, and it looks like that update included support for DTA! So uh...how do I get it to work? When I try to watch Live TV on my Mini now, I get a message that all of the XL4's tuners are in use and that I can't watch live TV until one is free. How do I make one of those tuners free to allow me to view live TV?

    UPDATE: I restarted the TiVo Mini, then the TiVo Premiere, and live TV on the Mini seems to be working now. Does anyone know if there's a way to solve this bug short of two restarts?
     
  2. jaredmwright

    jaredmwright New Member

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    I was having the same challenge last night. I actually had all tuners in use and didn't want to interrupt the recordings so didn't try anything else.

    it would be good to know how to fix this, I assume going through guided setup on the mini might work also?

    if anyone knows that would be helpful.
     
  3. tivosupport_jaron

    tivosupport_jaron New Member

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    Oct 17, 2013
    un alocate the tuners on the Premiere and repeate guided set up on the MiNi. That should do it.
    Thanks,
    Jaron
     
  4. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    One thing to be aware of with DTA... If a tuner is busy recording a suggestion then it is unavailable to a Mini for live TV. So if you have suggestions enabled this can cause a situation where tuners are never available for live TV. Unfortunately the only way to get around this is to either turn off suggestions, or manually go into the My Shows list and cancel one of the recording suggestions and then grab the tuner for live TV before another one starts.
     
  5. dave13077

    dave13077 Member

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    Jan 11, 2009
    I don't understand why the Mini can't function the same way the XL4 does with suggestions. If all 4 tuners are recording (with at least one being a suggestion) and when you go to Live TV (on the XL4) the Tivo automatically ends the suggestion recording and makes the tuner available. I assume this same thing can be programmed with the Mini.
     
  6. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

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    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    I agree that TiVo should do something about Suggestions interfering with Mini. However, it's much more complicated than you state.

    First, the XL4 does not behave as you say - when you go to live-tv the TiVo does NOT end the Suggestion. The tuner is available but the Suggestion is not ended until the user actually changes to some other channel, which is later. So the Mini cannot function the same way as the XL4, since in the current implementation it does require the Suggestion to end at the earlier point before the Mini can go to live-tv (the Mini will never be using a tuner that is recording in the current implementation - it would introduce many complications to do so).

    Second, the TiVo has to start worrying about what the rest of the TiVo is doing. At the moment, it doesn't have to do that as much. All the host needs to know is that there is a Suggestion recording. The Mini needs to know that there is a Suggestion recording and that that Suggestion is not being actively watched on the host (or possibly elsewhere, say being streamed to another device, though that is not handled well at the moment either.) Any time you require more current information to be known, you start to require much more complicated programming to deal with concurrency issues. All of this is doable, but often problematic on semi-real-time systems like TiVo.

    So something needs to be done, but it's not simple. It also would be complicated by future plans to change how streaming is done - I view requiring that a show be recording before allowing it to be streamed as another initial implementation that should be changed later. But that will also change the logic of how Suggestions can be dealt with, since the streaming may happen on the same tuner as a Suggestion.

    My hope/guess is that TiVo will initially just put a limit on the number of Suggestions recording at once (say just one), to avoid the annoying case of 3 Suggestions recording getting in the way of Mini live-tv. Then they'll fix it for good once they redo how streaming is handled.
     
  7. dave13077

    dave13077 Member

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    Jan 11, 2009
    Thanks for the explanation. Nothing is as easy as it seems :). After the update (DTA) do you still have the option to reserve one tuner for the Mini? This has worked well up to now and would be good to still have the option after DTA is implanted.
     
  8. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    That option (reserve a tuner) is now gone.
     
  9. martyscholes

    martyscholes New Member

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    Apr 29, 2009
    This is creating issues for me. Our Premiere regularly records 4 shows. My son with the Mini wants to be able to channel surf, so we had given him one tuner to use. I always assumed that DTA would give a similar experience to him, but now, almost every time he goes to watch Live TV, it tells him a tuner is unavailable.

    The fact that we can no longer reserve a tuner is a major step backwards as it effectively eliminates live TV on a Mini with no recourse short of managing the to do list by hand.
     
  10. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    You can turn off Suggestions. Not ideal if you use them a lot, but if you don't regularly watch them then it might be a better option then dealing with your son not being able to watch live TV.
     
  11. martyscholes

    martyscholes New Member

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    Apr 29, 2009
    Thanks for the suggestion about turning off suggestions. The suggestions are not what's eating the tuners. These are honest shows being recorded. There is no doubt that we could be better about managing what gets recorded when, but that kind of misses the point and is likely to start some disagreements in this family of five. Better to just keep a tuner available for my son.

    I have opened a ticket with Tivo. Surely they envisioned this scenario when they took away the dedicated tuner option.
     
  12. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    I think their tongue in cheek answer may be upgrade to a 6 tuner Roamio unit.
     
  13. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I was actually going to suggest the same thing. If you actually have all 4 tuners going most of the time then a 6 tuner might be a better option for you.

    Although I think they should still offer an option for this. Maybe make the options... Dynamic, Reserve 1 tuner, Reserve 2 tuners
     
  14. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    While I "ain't got no dog in this fight", I think that with the implementation of DTA, the Mini is behaving exactly as it should - as an extension of the TiVo. If all 4-tuners are engaged, you wouldn't be able to "surf" using the TiVo directly w/o stopping a recording, why should you be able to do it through the Mini?
     
  15. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    While I agree options are always nice for special circumstances.

    Although they should change the behavior when dealing with suggestions. The way it works now is not right. I know they need to content with the fact that someone might be actively watching that suggestion via another Mini or on the main TiVo, but a simple reference count should take care of that. If a Mini requests a tuner then find a suggestion that is not being watched and stop it. Rejecting a Mini user in favor of a suggestion isn't right.
     
  16. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I have no problem with them adding the option, even though I think it is silly. :)

    Once again, it is behaving exactly as it would if accessed directly. The Mini user has the option to stop a recording and free up a tuner.
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Not quite. On the main TiVo the suggestion is canceled automatically by simply changing the channel. On the Mini you get an error that no tuners are available and then you have to manually go into My Shows, cancel the suggestion, then go back to live TV.
     
  18. martyscholes

    martyscholes New Member

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    That's the real point, that the Mini user is just told that nothing is available. Sure, he can go into the current recordings and start canceling, but will Tivo attempt to record that show later, or is it gone for good? Which of the four shows being recorded are important to whom in the household? None of them? All of them? Somewhere in between? For just plain channel surfing, the Mini user has to deal with all of these questions. It is much simpler to reduce the tuner count, dedicate a tuner to the Mini and have the Tivo scheduling software handle all of the questions.

    Even cooler would be to have the Tivo software figure out that this episode of Sportscenter (or whatever) that is recording on tuner 3 will be rebroadcast later today / tomorrow / whenever and that it is safe not to record it right now, because it can record it later. Therefore, a tuner is available even though it is recording a requested show and can seamlessly give the tuner to the Mini.

    In any event, the current solution is not working well for me.
     
  19. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    I am having a hard time with your problem, if you reserved one tuner as you did before DTA you can't record 4 things at once, so if you were not recording 4 things before what changed ??
     
  20. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    A LOT of cable shows repeat, sometimes several times in the same night, so I could see a situation where with a tuner reserved all the shows would still get recorded just in a slightly later time slot where with all 4 "available" they would record at the same time.

    Honestly Marty I think your family is a prime candidate for a Roamio 6 tuner unit. With 6 tuners You would likely always have at least 1 tuner available for live TV on the Mini.
     

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