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Using DirecTivo over Vonage (VoIP) - a solution

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by RedGrey, Oct 2, 2003.

  1. Don_Corneo

    Don_Corneo New Member

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    Feb 6, 2004
    New Jersey

    I have been using regular D*TV receivers on Vonage for a couple of years. They make their calls as needed. I have not had a problem with them.:D
     
  2. gfoulks

    gfoulks New Member

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    Apr 14, 2003
    Being a new Vonage customer I have one of the newer Moto's and it works just fine with my DirecTivo. Simply put

    ,*99,1AREACODE in the dial prefix and make your call. Works every time for me.
     
  3. expoke

    expoke New Member

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    Sep 20, 2003
    Newbie here. Same problem. Cisco ATA and Philips DirecTV 7000 and won't work with Vonage.

    When you say it works with the Moto, do you mean that you've not had to modify the internal modem speed as described at the beginning of this post? I have the Cisco and if it would be easier to swap out for a Moto, that's what I'll do...

    Just completed the instructions as detailed in the opening post, but every time it gets to the dialing step, it fails, stating that the line is busy...
     
  4. aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Active Member

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    Dec 30, 2002
    Va Beach, VA
    Actually, if you're using your TiVo, that means you pressed "Select to Agree to TiVo's terms and services" on one of the setup screens.
    I'm all for finding a solution, but the idea that TiVo is at fault for their equipment not working on a non-standard phone solution that you chose is .... aggravating.
     
  5. nerdtech

    nerdtech New Member

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    Feb 1, 2004
    If I was able EASILY to have my USB ports on my DirecTiVo active to receive information, I would LOVE that. HMO option available or not - this is something that is NOT an outrageous request. :)
     
  6. expoke

    expoke New Member

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    Sep 20, 2003
    It's not DirecTVs or Tivo's responsibility to fix the Series 2 DirecTivo connection limitations because of a user agreement? That's laughable and absurd. You must work for these companies to find this expectation aggravating.

    I've got USB ports in the back they are fond of pointing out, but have no further function on my DirecTivo Series 2 than to be a really neat place to stick my finger in... THAT'S aggravating!

    Yes if you call Tivo, they will just pass us D*Tivo guys to DirecTV for answers, and DirecTV has said the same thing for months now: We have absolutely no idea when we will enable the ports and fix this problem. THAT'S aggravating!
     
  7. aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Active Member

    1,062
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    Dec 30, 2002
    Va Beach, VA
    The fact that their modem doesn't work on a Voice-over-IP telephone connection isn't any more of a "connection limitation" than the fact that their modem doesn't work over a Cellular telephone connection.

    The product was designed to work over a standard telephone line. It does. To honestly think that DTV is responsible to make it work over every telephone technology is what aggravates me. THE ISSUE ISN'T THAT THE DIRECTIVO DOESN'T WORK, IT'S THAT VONAGE DOESN'T WORK LIKE A STANDARD PHONE LINE. Make Vonage responsible for having VOIP act like a standard phone line and the problem is fixed.

    If you want to rant about USB ports not being active so you can make broadband phone calls, post in a "I WANT MY HMO NOW" thread. God knows there are plenty of them here. :rolleyes:
     
  8. aristoBrat

    aristoBrat Active Member

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    Dec 30, 2002
    Va Beach, VA
    Do you really want to stand by that statement? :D
     
  9. expoke

    expoke New Member

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    Sep 20, 2003
    That link does not allow us to submit our question once we select what unit we have. Once again, we are referred to DirecTV.
     
  10. Don_Corneo

    Don_Corneo New Member

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    Feb 6, 2004
    New Jersey
    Actually, I do. Every other piece of equipment I have that was/is manufactured to operate over "standard phone line(s)" does. My other D*TV receivers work fine over Vonage. The D*TV receiver that my DVR replaced made it's calls with no problems. My internal fax modem (which was built way before VOIP works great over Vonage, clearer faxes then over analog service lines. And Vonage is looking into what they can do for its customers. I had a Vonage tech spend 2 hours with me trying everything he could. I had a D*TV tech do the same.

    And as pointed out in another post I read related to this problem, TiVo (NOT D*TV) required the use of a piece of hardware that defies the current standard for modems, in that it cannot negotiaite speed. It is beyond reason (except it would cost TiVo less per call; businesses pay for the actual length of time a line is used) why TiVo would have a modem built (as per TiVo specs) this way.

    As a side note, I have seen posts (on other boards) about homes with older wiring have had to be rewired to work with TiVo. In at least one case the phone company had to switch the "line pair" to a house because the lines had degraded and TiVo would not connect. Had TiVo used a standard modem, none of this would be an issue. So, yes, this is TiVo's fault. All they needed to do was use current modem standards instead of reinventing the telegraph.
     
  11. Don_Corneo

    Don_Corneo New Member

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    Feb 6, 2004
    New Jersey
    The link should send you to http://customersupport.tivo.com/caseSelector.asp?. If it doesn't, try copy/paste. If you still don't get in, select a different DRV that is NOT a D*TiVo unit. Continue until you come to a page that has "Contact support" with two selection boxes and a text box, as described in my previous post above with the link.
     
  12. expoke

    expoke New Member

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    Sep 20, 2003
    Ok I specified a different model and submitted it. I anticipate they'll just use that misrepresentation as an excuse to pass me off, but we'll see... I'll advise when I hear something.

    Another idea to bring this issue to their attention is for someone to set a date in advance, far enough to publicize it sufficiently here and among other circles, and on that date we'll all call Tivo/DirecTV and express our frustration with this problem. People could call anytime, as often as they want.

    One more idea, and one that may avoid wait times on the telephone: We could all send a standard letter to the same locations as well. Wouldn't take long to cut/paste text into word, put a stamp on it and throw it in the mail.

    I'm up for both ideas. They say the pen is mightier than the sword. Not as much fun though...haha
     
  13. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

    2,739
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    Oct 3, 2000
    Don, I'm not sure why you think it's Tivo's problem.

    Vonage states specifically that analog dial-up modems will not work with their service. Period. They fact that some work and some don't is all in the YMMV category. Vonage doesn't support modem use through their service. How you equate that to being a Tivo problem is beyond me.

    Also keep in mind that Tivo's have been around long before Vonage was the gleam in some developer's eye. Thus how could they tweak their modem protocol to work with something that didn't exist yet. Not withstanding the fact THAT VONAGE DOESN'T SUPPORT DIAL UP MODEMS ON THEIR SERVICE.

    Ok, I'm done. :D
     
  14. Meinrad

    Meinrad dumdiddydum

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    Nov 16, 2001
    Pittsburgh Area
    Do not send these complaints to Tivo. It is not Tivo's problem in any way shape or form. DirecTivo's (actuallly DirecTv PVR's powered by Tivo) are controlled by DirecTv. They buy rights to the software and use it. Tivo can not just decided they want to do something to the software and upload it to our machines. If DirecTv would pay Tivo to fix it, then it would get fixed.

    Actually, I think something to that effect was even iterated by someone form Tivo on these boards. Anything DirecTv asks them to do they will do, but they have to be asked.

    If you want to bug someone, bug DirecTv, they hold all the cards.
     
  15. BioTechnician

    BioTechnician New Member

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    Aug 1, 2003
    Help, have the new motorola ata and the HDVR2 with the tivo serial cable. Also have an external us robotics 14.4 modem which i have tested with my computer to connect. The problem is when i hook the tivo serial cable to my modem it is not deteched unless i use a null modem cable adapter but does not connect. I have tried jus the serial with the ,#319 and the *99 commands but fails to negotiat every time. but when i use just the serial it does not detect my modem at all. I have tried several modems any help would be great.
     
  16. Don_Corneo

    Don_Corneo New Member

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    Feb 6, 2004
    New Jersey

    TiVo SPECIFIES what hardware and software is to be used to work with their service. D*TV's "control" is limited to the channels you get. DirecTV has no control over the hardware or software except as ALLOWED by TiVo. That is why units like mine (and it appears it is in all D*TiVo units) have two seperate modems. D*TV's modem communicates without a problem. It's the modem for TiVo that is the problem. People who use TiVo SA units also have the same problem as the D*TiVo using VOIP.
    If you remove all the D*TV specific hardware/software, you are left with the almost the same hardware/software found in a SA. The basic setup of the 'motherboard' is the same, even between brands (As required by TiVo). The only software specific between D*TV and TiVo is the interaction with D*TV service programming (i.e. guide, PPV). What D*TV really does is supply a similar unit to the SA at a cheaper price and lower monthly service fee. Of course there is also the convience of having one 'box' instead of two and the dual tuners (which as far as I understand is not available in a SA). If D*TV had the DVR's built to it's own specs, then the hacks and other codes probably wouldn't be the same as SA's, if they'd work at all. I tried one code that I found on a SA board that worked exactly the same in my Samsung (who specifically builds D*TiVo's only, no SA's).
    What it boils down to is D*TV pays for the right to USE the "TiVo" logo and services. The manufactures pay for the right to use the "TiVo" logo and to build the units as per TiVo specs using the required hardware and installing the required software. TiVo retains fulls rights to the hardware and software. This is most evident with the following statement I found on the TiVo site:

    "As disclosed in its most recent annual report, TiVo has been awarded 49 patents and has over 100 patent applications pending. These patents and patent applications protect its original DVR software and hardware design, as well as additional features that enhance the TiVo service and enable networked home entertainment."
    Also look at your system info screen where TiVo specifically states it owns and controls its software and hardware.

    D*TV is owned by Hughes, who is also with Philips. But RCA, Samsung and Sony are independent (and there are a couple of others). Both Samsung and Sony make must of their own hardware and electronics, but look inside. My Samsung has a Western Digital hard drive. Samsung makes its own hard drives, so why is there another company's product in it? It costs more to build using another manufactures product. Simply because TiVo at the time required Western Digital hard drives (as with the SA). D*TV could care less what hard drive is used since they simply sold Samsung the right to manufacture receivers for them.
    Maybe D*TV should have made sure the contract with TiVo required better support of the TiVo specific parts (used losely). We might be able to blame D*TV for that, but I spoke to Samsung about the problem (after all they did build it) and they informed me that TiVo, not D*TV, required the specific hardware to be used. It would have been cheaper (Equals more profit) for Samsung to use their own products, but they were not allowed to do this under manufacturing contract with TiVo.
    I have to believe the reason TiVo sends use back to D*TV for tech help is because we don't pay the high rate that SA owners do (especially if you own more than one). TiVo just can't be bothered with us 'cheap' D*TiVo DVR owners.
     
  17. Don_Corneo

    Don_Corneo New Member

    19
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    Feb 6, 2004
    New Jersey

    There is a post by RedGray at the beginning of this thread that may help you. It requires you to modify some wires needed to force the modem into a mode that works with TiVo. It appears that those who have done it can connect to TiVo as needed.
    Also, you can to take the DVR to someone's house that has regular analog phone service (if you don't still have one). Once you complete the initial setup, the info is stored in the unit until it is reset (so don't reset it unless you have an analog phone line available). If you can't stand the nag screens, you can take the unit to an analog phone line once a month to keep them at bay.
    Other than that, you are in the same boat with the rest of us. We have to wait and see if TiVo's version 4.0 software will also be available to D*TiVo owners.
     
  18. BioTechnician

    BioTechnician New Member

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    Aug 1, 2003
    ',#319" does not slow the modem down it just allows you to use an external modem.
     
  19. Don_Corneo

    Don_Corneo New Member

    19
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    Feb 6, 2004
    New Jersey
    To avoid getting involved with technical problems, Vonage warns you that modems don't work with their system. This is more than likely do to problems such as that we are expierencing with the TiVo modem. Not all modems are created equal!
    They do offer a dedicated fax line (read dial up modem).
    Also, a Vonage tech spent 2 hours with me trying different settings, both available to users and available only to Vonage in-house, to get TiVo to connect. The tech also has TiVo and has the same problems. Vonage is limited to what they can do by the hardware at both ends (read ATA and TiVo), but they are trying to find a workable solution. The way the tech remedied his problem was by installing wireless phone jacks. But this does not work for everyone.
    At this time it is all guesses, but it seems that the TiVo modem cannot handle the clearity of a digital network nor the speed of the packets over the digital network. The main problem is that the TiVo modem speed is fixed with no room for adapting to line conditions. It can not 'tell' the server to 'slow down'.
     
  20. bonscott87

    bonscott87 Done.

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    Oct 3, 2000
    Don,

    You are forgetting the fact that Vonage STILL doesn't support dial-up modems other then fax line (which runs at 9600 or less). Call them up, look at the license agreement, check the FAQ's. It's simple: Vonage doesn't (still) support analog dialup modems. Period. You can't change the facts as much as you want to. So please, stop with your thread hijack and go complain elsewhere, maybe start your own thread. This thread for the longest time has been about helping people with technical solutions to get their DirecTivo to work over Vonage. All of your posts and replys to those posts should be removed to clean it back up to it's original state.
     

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