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TWC Hawaii moving all HD to SDV

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by HiKent, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. s1_junkie

    s1_junkie New Member

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    Sep 27, 2007
    FYI: I filed comment with the FCC on 11/7/07, attaching TWC listings and transcripts of a month's e-mails with TWC. Read if you like:

    http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519810339

    I dont know if it is related, but I hear that the FCC's Enforcement Bureau wrote to OTWC on 11/8/07 asking it to explain how TWC is in compliance with the FCC's plug and play regulations (lawyers ask questions in that way!). (note, this is hearsay, I have not seen such a letter). My understanding is that TWC has 10 working days to reply.

    If any of you are having non compliance issues with TWC (that would be all of you, right?) I would strongly suggest filing comment and/or e-mailing the FCC (please, we have the FCC's attention the time is NOW). Attach any evidence.

    http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/upload_v2.cgi (specify proceedings: 97-80)

    Quit bitchin' and be as clear and rational as you can, something I find particuarly difficult right now.
     
  2. Icarus

    Icarus New Member

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    Jun 15, 2002
    Upcountry...
    Nice letter.

    I think the channel lineup you submitted is wrong or out of date. KFVE, TNT, TBS, etc are not SDV. Take a look at the latest channel lineup for Kona. (They do have some sort of "start over" feature on some of those channels, that isn't available for cablecard customers, but it doesn't sound like anything we would need with tivo anyway .. later I read a reply in your fcc filing where they explained this .. start over lets you start a running program from the beginning of the program via your 2-way cable box.)

    When I look at the list, the only ones that really matter are the non-broadcast HD channels (except HBOHD and SHOHD). I guess if you watch the spanish stations, or subscribe to one of the sports packages you might have a different opinion. Other than that, sure, OC16, CSPAN3, CNBC World and a few other things I never really watch will be SDV. But I don't think the real loss is anything close to 135 non-ppv, non-shopping, non-on-demand channels.

    I wish you would have included their "per outlet" policies in that letter. Most other TW customers only pay a small rental fee per cablecard. In our case, they charge us $8.00 duplicate programming fee per cc, and if you can get the HD pak, they charge an extra $6.95 per cc for that too. Compare that pricing to their own dual tuner HD DVR, where they don't charge for the extra tuner and don't charge twice for the HD Pak. Is a box with 2 cc's one outlet or two? They treat it as two, but their own box with dual tuner capability is treated as a single outlet.

    -David
     
  3. s1_junkie

    s1_junkie New Member

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    Sep 27, 2007
    1) Yes I had noticed that the text on the Kona channel lineup has changed since I copied and pasted, although they are both dated Nov 5th.

    2) I have a multistream card (and I am not allowed to buy the HD pack!) so I was not aware of the "per outlet" pricing. If you feel the urge to tell the Feds.....

    3) I did however just discover that the "digital pak" pricing I previously had was only available with a cable box (which was driven by my trusty S1). It would have been cheaper for me to keep the old cable box unconnected and gathering dust in a draw after getting my TiVoHD rather than returning the cablebox. And ofcourse TWC say I cant go back.

    4) and to MauiGirl: you are correct, TWC will not sell you the HD Pak (or the Spanish Pak, or the Sports Pak, or the Chineese channel) even though SDV may not actually be implemented in your area (IMO a federal violation in its self).

    We need a friend with a big stick.

    Bob
     
  4. Icarus

    Icarus New Member

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    Jun 15, 2002
    Upcountry...
    They won't sell you the digital pak for the first channel and let you pay the duplicate service fee for the second channel? Incredible. Talk about non-parity pricing. They are charging you ala carte pricing for everything on the first CC stream?

    I can't see why you can't go back. Just pay for an additional outlet with digital service (and get the box) and have them replace your current pricing with duplicate service x 2 for the CCs. Why won't that work? Would it be any cheaper that way?

    OTW really seems to have their own idea of what equal access means.

    -David
     
  5. s1_junkie

    s1_junkie New Member

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    Sep 27, 2007
    IMO you nailed it exactly.
     
  6. s1_junkie

    s1_junkie New Member

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    Sep 27, 2007
    FYI, I just called the FCC to check up on the status: "Cant comment on an investigation in progress". Which I take as good news.

    And "please add any other information you may have" - I pass this on to all of you.

    Apparently when the investigation is complete the FCC will send a letter to me about my filed comment. I'll go camp by the mailbox.....

    Over 2 months now, ugly cablebox users dont have any extra channels, anybody know if SDV has actually been implemented?

    And if not, why exactly will TWC not sell me the HDTV package?
     
  7. Dec 7, 2007 #107 of 436
    is2scooby

    is2scooby New Member

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    Dec 26, 2002
    Honolulu, HI
  8. HawaiiTivoLover

    HawaiiTivoLover New Member

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    May 3, 2005
    Hawaii SDV Update;
    Even after the latest TWC cut off date about 2/3's of original HD channels remain, while all the new HD additions like CNNHD, Food network HD, History, ESPN2 etc etc do not work. still being billed for all the channels.
    Wonder when the USB dongle will be available.
     
  9. HawaiiTivoLover

    HawaiiTivoLover New Member

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    May 3, 2005
    First of all, s1_junkie you are my hero. just read your posts and email interaction with Oceanic. Great! I have been arguing with some of those same people. I have been fuming with them for over a year for double charging us Tivo users duplicate service fees and HD entertainment pack, then with the whole SDV thing OMG!!!! But you took action and I am grateful. I will be following up with my comlaints to both the FCC and OTWC.
    And regarding your question, people with the TW HD cable boxes/DVRs do have many channels that use SDV (both SD and HD) that we don't get with our Tivo's.
     
  10. HawaiiTivoLover

    HawaiiTivoLover New Member

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    May 3, 2005
    s1_junkie, have you heard back from anyone since the end of Nov? thanks
     
  11. s1_junkie

    s1_junkie New Member

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    Sep 27, 2007
    Thanks, its nice to know somebody out there is as crazy as me.

    I have not heard a word, I did make a second comment to the FCC on December 2nd. I just checked and my comment is not part of the public record, I called and checked on the status apparently the FCC considers the contents confidential.

    I have no confidentiality agreement or any other relationship with the FCC, so how what I write could be considered confidential to the FCC is unclear to me. Time to write to the newspaper I think.

    Anyway FYI here is the contents of my blocked FCC comment (but its not much use if we are the only ones who read it):

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    December 2nd, 2007

    There is a pressing need for the FCC to declare that Oceanic Time Warner Cable is in violation of the plug and play rules. Oceanic claims that a new distribution protocol (Switched Digital Video) means it can ignore the FCC’s plug and play rules, and even its future commitment to such a protocol allows it to deny service to CableCard users today! The FCC needs to make a statement that clarifies the plug and play rules (http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/consumerfacts/plugandplaytv.pdf) to explicitly say that “programming” refers to the content of cable television and not to the distribution protocol.

    This last point is clear if we, for example, consider a DVD; the viewer’s experience is the same if the DVD is either purchased or if it is rented. Purchase is a one-way distribution protocol; rental is a two-way distribution protocol because the DVD is returned. Changing the distribution protocol does not change the programming; a rented DVD is for the viewer the same as a purchased DVD. The meaning of programming is equally true whether the distribution medium is a coaxial cable or The Postal Service.

    Oceanic Time Warner Cable claims that changing from a one-way distribution protocol, changes the programming from one-way. The claim is that the programming becomes an “advanced digital service”. Hence the “one-way programming” section of the Plug and Play order no longer applies. Oceanic’s logic is flawed, as we have seen the distribution protocol does not alter the programming and also such a protocol does not meet the FCC’s plug and play interactivity criterion. So the plug and play rules must apply, and Oceanic must be informed.

    If all parties in the cable industry wish to move to Switched Digital Video (a bidirectional protocol) then there must be agreements on interoperability and schedule; and as with other TV technologies a clear migration plan. If one company dictates then consumers loose and the FCC will not have fulfilled its responsibility to the public.

    Oceanic continues to discriminate against CableCard users; we cannot purchase certain programming packages because Oceanic says it will one day use Switched Digital Video. The schedule of that day is unclear, and now even less clear because of an ongoing FCC investigation (case # EB07SE352). I first reported to the Hawaii State Regulator on September 26th 2007 (and to the FCC on November 7th) Oceanic’s refusal to sell some packages; it is now December 2nd and Oceanic behavior is unchanged.

    Nowhere does it say the plug and play rules need not apply now because of a possible future change.

    Oceanic’s intransigence requires a clear, immediate, and public statement from the FCC requiring an end to this discrimination; also to prevent further abuse this statement should also contain a clarification of the meaning of “programming” (in the plug and play documents) as content and not as distribution protocol.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    And FYI, FCC contact numbers:

    JoAnne Lucanik , 202 418 0873 (in charge of this investigation)
    Bill Davenport , 202 418 1034 (Assistant Chief, Enforcement Bureau. & JoAnne's boss)
     
  12. Jan 1, 2008 #112 of 436
    HawaiiTivoLover

    HawaiiTivoLover New Member

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    May 3, 2005
    seems like all the HD channels (except networks, hbo,showtime) have finally been taken off and switched to SDV.
    Anyone else still have the others?

    Happy New Year!!!
     
  13. Jan 2, 2008 #113 of 436
    Icarus

    Icarus New Member

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    Jun 15, 2002
    Upcountry...
    Yes. It depends on where you are (by island, typically).

    Did anybody else lose the Sugar Bowl (KHON and KHONHD feeds) towards the end of the first half of the game? The analog feed came back and then eventually the HD feed was restored during the third quarter.

    -David
     
  14. Jan 2, 2008 #114 of 436
    HawaiiTivoLover

    HawaiiTivoLover New Member

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    May 3, 2005
    what a bummer! on oahu the game was in HD the whole time.
     
  15. Jan 4, 2008 #115 of 436
    s1_junkie

    s1_junkie New Member

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    Sep 27, 2007
    I had all the other HD channels disabled right after I started persistent complaints!

    Here in Kona The Sundance Channel just went grey, however a TiVo reset brought it back. In December I had a couple of instances of most channels going grey, these
    were fixed by a reset. I assume this is SDV related, but it could be my TiVoHD.

    HawaiiTivoLover: Does a TiVo reset bring back your lost channels, at least for a while?
     
  16. Jan 4, 2008 #116 of 436
    HawaiiTivoLover

    HawaiiTivoLover New Member

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    May 3, 2005
    just like you, last month, some HD channels would go grey and a reset would work. Since Jan 1st however just grey screen.weird because I do still get tnt HD and HD Discovery theater(besides networks,hbo and showtime). I guess it's finally time to turn my cablecards in and get their piece of crap DVR. Have you heard anything from oceanic lately?
     
  17. Jan 4, 2008 #117 of 436
    s1_junkie

    s1_junkie New Member

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    Sep 27, 2007
    Sorry, no news from Oceanic, but it's not like they call me anyway.

    After some pushing, the FCC finally published my last rant:
    http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6519821104

    The redacted clause is: "and now even less clear because of an ongoing FCC investigation (case # EB07SE352). "

    The Tuning Resolver stuff is clearing up:

    From the National Cable & Telecommunications Association:
    http://www.ncta.com/ReleaseType/MediaRelease/4439.aspx

    and it looks like the major equipment vendors are on board:
    http://www.lightreading.com/document.asp?site=cdn&doc_id=140436

    Sadly with this visible on the horizon it does not seem, to me, that there is to a lot of motivation for the droids at the FCC to do anything but wait. Wish that it aint so.

    Tuning Resolver looks like another 6 months, and it seems Oceanic's active participation is required! Perhaps a few emails to the State Regulator asking him to keep Oceanic in the program are called for cabletv@dcca.hawaii.gov

    Sorry to hear you are considering mothballing your (paid for) luxury vehicle for a subcompact rental, that is soooo sad. But a cablecard gives access to less and less of Oceanic's toll road. (grrrrrr.)
     
  18. Jan 9, 2008 #118 of 436
    Icarus

    Icarus New Member

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    Jun 15, 2002
    Upcountry...
    OT, but here it is:

    Just announced on KGMB news (saw the teaser on the news blurb at the end of Jeopardy, then watched the story at the start of the news):

    Oceanic and KGMB9 agreed to start cable-casting KGMB (CBS) in HD starting as soon as tomorrow night. The deal was just signed an hour ago.

    I wonder if it will be on channel 1009?

    -David
     
  19. Icarus

    Icarus New Member

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    Jun 15, 2002
    Upcountry...
  20. Adam1115

    Adam1115 20,000!!! TCF Club

    27,646
    30
    Dec 15, 2003
    Denver ish
    BTW, you can get HD in Hawaii on DirecTV... Two large dish's...
     

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