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Tivo's explanation on Mini pricing

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by magnus, Mar 21, 2013.

  1. Mar 22, 2013 #21 of 111
    BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Active Member

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    See above.
     
  2. Mar 22, 2013 #22 of 111
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I think MZ made the same assumption the rest of us did. He never claims that Jim said that it would work with a 2 tuner unit. He simply said that it would not work at launch because of the dedicated tuner and then said it "should" work once dynamic tuner allocation was available.

    Like most of us MZ probably just assumed that once tuner allocation was dynamic it would no longer be an issue. However what we all forgot to consider is that TiVo has always marketed the 2 tuner unit as "watch one show while recording another". If they allowed a Mini to steal a tuner from a 2 tuner box, even dynamically, then that use case dissolves. There is no elegant way for a Mini to be able to pair with a 2 tuner unit without it diminishing the user experience in some way. Either the Mini wont be able to do live TV at all or the host unit will lose the ability to "watch one show while recording another" while the Mini is in use. Neither option is ideal, and it makes sense that TiVo would decide neither was worth supporting.
     
  3. Mar 22, 2013 #23 of 111
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Real or imagined it does not matter. The simple fact is that the 2 tuner is technically capable of streaming to the Mini and so it should be supported. I wonder how many returns they will get of 4 tuner boxes just so someone can initially pair to a Mini.
     
  4. Mar 22, 2013 #24 of 111
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    The real solution here is to "unofficially support" it. They would not provide customer support for issues related to 2-tuners but the TCFers would have little to complain about.
     
  5. Mar 22, 2013 #25 of 111
    compnurd

    compnurd New Member

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    They will probably get very little. With the exception of the few idiots who abuse the system
     
  6. Mar 22, 2013 #26 of 111
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    How are they abusing the system exactly? I don't really care for the idea but Tivo pretty much did it to themselves. They don't currently have a 4 tuner OTA box and they aren't supporting the 2 tuner boxes that do.

    Like I said, I don't care to go to all the trouble but I certainly understand why some might.
     
  7. Mar 22, 2013 #27 of 111
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Yeah, and then you lose VOD (at least on the cable cos that support it on TiVo).

    Yup.

    It's not the users' fault that TiVo made this boneheaded decision.
     
  8. Mar 22, 2013 #28 of 111
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    You're confusing the ability to stream from with the ability to act as a host. The Mini can stream from a 2 tuner box just fine. However the 2 tuner box is not properly equipped to act as a Mini host. Even with dynamic tuner allocation it still wont work as expected.

    I seriously doubt many people will attempt the 4 tuner buy/return tick just to get the Mini working with a 2 tuner box. You'd be much better off just selling the 2 tuner and buying a 4 tuner. The upgrade would only cost you ~$200 and you'd gain a tuner in the process and possibly save some money by returning a cable box at the secondary location.

    Now if you are an OTA user then you'll just have to wait. TiVo has a new OTA capable unit coming. But until then you have no options that involve the Mini.
     
  9. Mar 22, 2013 #29 of 111
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    That would be cool. I wonder is there is some backdoor or way to spoof a 2 tuner into presenting itself to the Mini as a host?
     
  10. Mar 22, 2013 #30 of 111
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    I think you underestimate the determined and no .... I'm not confused. They created the wrong product. It's as simple as that. They should either make it work with 2 tuner boxes or create an app for Roku/Apple TV that works with the Stream.

    They ought to tell folks what the plan is for OTA otherwise they may be determined enough to do the swap.
     
  11. Mar 22, 2013 #31 of 111
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I think you over estimate the number of "determined" TiVo users. I'm betting the number of people that attempt this is in the 100s, if that.

    Perhaps from your perspective. But the vast majority of TiVo users are cable subscribers, so for them there is a simple upgrade option. And TiVo's main target for this is not existing customers looking for a cheap upgrade anyway. They're trying to attract new customers to the TiVo platform by offering a whole home solution comparable to their competitors. It's not quite there yet, but it's a first step in the right direction.
     
  12. Mar 22, 2013 #32 of 111
    SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

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    It wouldn't seem too difficult for TiVo to have the Mini query the account to see if there is a 4 tuner box on the account. (Say once every 30 days)
     
  13. Mar 22, 2013 #33 of 111
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    That would require a software update... have you seen how long it takes Tivo to do something? :D
     
  14. Mar 22, 2013 #34 of 111
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    TiVo created and are selling the product TiVo wanted, you act as if TiVo made a promise that they did not keep. The Mini is a $250 product with limitations, priced so that retailers can't get much mark up at $99, TiVo gets the rest of the money without any sharing with the retailers, OH! and if you don't want to put out the extra $150, just pay $6 /month to TiVo. People who purchased a TP with 2 tuners were never promised by TiVo that the Mini would work with this unit, so what the beef, don't like the Mini for any reason don't purchase it. People vote with their money, TiVo knows this and makes their business plans knowing this, if TiVo makes a bad business plan, only TiVo and their stockholders will be the ones to suffer.
     
  15. Mar 23, 2013 #35 of 111
    johnner1999

    johnner1999 Member

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    so would we still “*****” if TiVo charged a whole home DVR fee instead of charging for each Mini?

    Trust me I hate being charged a fee to watch my “own” content - but TiVo is supplying me with a service (not having to rent an extra cable card, which not only saves me money but one less of problem to worry about as well) and not having to buy another tivo to go in my bedroom.

    so the $7 a month isn’t out of line, I think Dish charges me that same amount for my Joey (which is the same as the mini) only thing is that they didn’t charge me for Joey upfront. That is the only rub I see.

    Now do I buy a standard 4 or an XL4 hmmmmm
     
  16. Mar 23, 2013 #36 of 111
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Been away for a few days so a little late to this thread but I think it still needs my 2cents :D.

    The Mini is part of TiVo's digital cable whole home DVR system, which is currently based around TiVo's 4 tuner digital cable only DVRs. If you do not want a TiVo digital cable only whole home DVR system then the Mini isn't designed for you and you should move on.

    Regarding the price ($250 or $100+$6/mo) I think if you just look at the Mini as a stand alone device (which it is not) the price is high. The only way to really determine if the price is actually acceptable or not is to look at the price of TiVo's whole home digital cable system. Because I really believe value is a personal decision based on someone's personal circumstances I really don't have much of an opinion on if TiVo's whole home DVR system is a good value or not.

    Just for the record I am an OTA air only user with an Android tablet so none of TiVo's recent devices (4 tuner DVRs, Stream, & Mini) are designed for me. But honestly with the cost of used Series 3 DVRs with lifetime so low and the deals we have had on the Premiere with lifetime I see no reason why an OTA person would chose a Mini over another DVR anyway. I do understand the desire of an OTA user to want a $100 solution for a secondary or little used TVs but I see no reason to expect TiVo to provide it.
     
  17. Mar 23, 2013 #37 of 111
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    All Tivo has to do is provide half of it. They provide the mechanism to get it to the Roku and then us OTA folks are happy. :D
     
  18. Mar 23, 2013 #38 of 111
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Based on TiVo's recent FCC waiver filing that indicates a future model with OTA support, I do think that TiVo see's the business case for continued support of OTA (and Android) users. I expect we will see support for both later this year.
     
  19. Mar 24, 2013 #39 of 111
    magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    • Space saver -hide behind TV
    • Would not use quite as much power
    • No moving parts - so should run longer (no replacing HD)
    • Fee is a little less than a full Tivo

    Why you wouldn't want to.
    • Won't work with current OTA Tivos
    • No support for Netflix and Amazon
    • Does not offer same flexibility as Roku - so you can't replace and have 1 box
    • High fee for what this product is
     
  20. Mar 29, 2013 #40 of 111
    teklock

    teklock New Member

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    But that makes them no money. It's as simple as that. I don't understand why people are still complaining about a $250 device that has no competition.

    Either get one or don't. I have four! :D
     

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