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Tivo's downward spiral

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Greg_R, Apr 3, 2008.

  1. Apr 3, 2008 #21 of 235

    bigguy126 Member

    Sep 4, 2007
    I can confirm what the poster said re: VIOP phones not working. When I had Verizon voicewing service, I could not call tivo support. The tivo phone system would not understand me pressing "2" (or whatever number it was) for Tivo support. I had to call back with a cell phone.
  2. Apr 4, 2008 #22 of 235

    reh523 New Member

    Feb 27, 2006
    Phoenix, AZ

    The King may be bare a**ed naked, don't say it on this forum though...;)
  3. Apr 4, 2008 #23 of 235

    ciper New Member

    Nov 4, 2004
    I tend to agree with the general idea the original poster has. There was a time when Tivo wasn't so secretive about bugfixes and new features. Now we not only have to guess when the next software release will be but also if it even addresses the specific bug in mind.

    There are also features that a significant portion of the community has asked for which are ignored. For example QAM mapping, true M-Card support on the S3, digital set top box support on the S2, free space indicator etc...

    Why doesn't Tivo monitor this forum more closely? The amount of real world information on the product would be invaluable to any other company.

    My join date may only be 2004 but I promise I've been around the scene for a while, IRL in fact...

    Its too bad that the fanboys will be out in force or I'd try harder.
  4. Apr 4, 2008 #24 of 235

    TiVoPony New Member

    May 11, 2002
    I'm sorry you feel we've become more secretive, having been here from day one I'd argue that's not the case. Our product roadmap has never been public, as we've had to explain here on the forum many times over the years (yes, prior to 2004). Even back when Replay was our only competitor we were careful about how and when information was shared...there's nothing like giving a competitor free information on what you're doing. I will agree that there was a period, about four years ago, where we had a string of unfortunate leaks regarding new features. Those were not planned, sanctioned, or in any way helpful to us, trust me. You shouldn't take a lack of leaks as a change in policy though...we didn't intend to have the leaks to begin with! :)

    There have never been release notes regarding bug fixes in the past either. It's possible that we're not any more secretive today than you remember us being.

    Regarding the specific features you've asked about, the free space indicator is certainly the longest running request. Longevity does not equal priority though. If that single feature would have sold more boxes and increased customer satisfaction for a significant portion of our subscribers, it would have been added years ago. It may get in there one day, but when prioritized against other things, it's often pretty low on the list.

    Likewise, features such as QAM remapping and M-Card S3 support do not target a significant portion of our subscribers, both are in fact very small numbers of subscribers. That doesn't mean that they automatically get set aside, or that TiVo is ignoring or doesn't care about those customers. But it is a consideration when trading off those features against others (M-Card for S3 is technically possible, but also technically very complex. We've learned that there is a lot of risk inherent in that development).

    I assume by 'digital setup support for S2' you're referring to the ATSC converter boxes just coming onto the market in advance of next February's cut over for antenna signals (cable is not affected). That's being worked on, but I don't have a date or support plans to share yet.

    We're also pretty open here, myself, Jerry, and Stephen, about engaging with customers who have issues, helping to identify what can be done, soliciting help (and beta testers), etc. There aren't many companies that allow employees to participate on open forums the way that TiVo does.

    We do our best. But I have to acknowledge that no matter how much time we spend here, there will always be one more post to answer. If we can help, and provide information, we always will. Just don't ask for our product roadmap. ;)

  5. Apr 4, 2008 #25 of 235

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

    Nov 27, 2002
    There is no question his overall premise is correct, although some of his specifics are unique or wrong.

    TiVo only reads the posts about how wonderful it is, thus perpetuating its self delusion. :eek:

    Stephen has a rock solid reputation for credibility and I donĀ“t like seeing him getting in here with the sort of stuff we usually get from TiVoPony. ;)
  6. Apr 4, 2008 #26 of 235

    TrueTurbo New Member

    Feb 19, 2008
    Beaverton, OR
    I have to applaud the way you stick with this forum, helping people, answering questions and responding to comments. At times, this forum comes across like it's full of whinging, whining know-it-alls who believe they officially represent all the TiVo owners out there and expect everything they say and ask for to be immediately acted upon. In reality, this forum probably only voices the opinions of a fraction of the total TiVo ownership out there and as is usual with forums like this, speaks mainly for those who are unhappy or have genuine issues. The negativity can get overwhelming!

    Personally, I'm perfectly happy with my TiVoHD. It has it's quirks and over time, I've had to reboot it a few times to clear up some menu and video issues, but overall, it hasn't seriously let me down and it organizes my TV viewing the way I want it to. I like it when new features come along and I'm very happy when bugs are fixed, but I don't presume to demand that TiVo jump when I say jump and build a device to my exact specifications! I don't own the company and until I do, I'll take what I can get as the product evolves over time.

    If ever I get to the point where I don't like the direction TiVo is heading or the service it offers, I'll vote with my cheque book and move on. Until then, add me to the satisfied customer column. Good job TiVo! I can't wait to see what you come up with next. :up: :D
  7. Apr 4, 2008 #27 of 235

    sommerfeld Lucky (?) 200 member

    Feb 26, 2006
    my home phone has been using a different voip service for many years. I've called tivo support many times and never had any trouble getting through the touch tone menus.
  8. Apr 4, 2008 #28 of 235

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    Wow, TiVoPony! That was a boatlaod of info people have been asking about here for some time. Thanks for the info :up:

    Now as a 4 year TiVo fan whom you know supports the products and your involvemnet here in a positive way - let me give some (i hope) constructive feedback on this.
    Why did it take a negative thread by someone to finally get that info straight from the Ponies mouth? I do indeed take your point that there is always one more post to answer and I would not think you have the time to keep replying in every thread about say ATSC converters for series 2 but you obviously know such threads have been around a while. 4 years ago we might have seen some of your infamous hint posts a few months ago to steer us on how that will play out. Now it is not so much. :( So clearly we (well most we) appreciate it when you post such information but it does seem you have become busier and the forum is left with less straight scoop from TiVo then it used to have. I can only imagine how it must have been 2 years even before I came along and the original poster was here.

    Yes I think you do, back on the positive side :up: I consider this forum, and the TiVo associates who post here, and do indeed help out a lot of posters, one of the best features of TiVo :up::up::up:
  9. Apr 4, 2008 #29 of 235

    JohnBrowning Member

    Jul 15, 2004
    Plano, TX
    That would not be TiVo's issue. The problem is in the VoIP service. There are multiple methods to relay DTMF signalling over VoIP. The worst is in the voice band. It MAY work over G.711 if the jitter is sufficiently low. DTMF inband over G.729 is almost assured to fail. The preferred method is RFC2833.
  10. Apr 4, 2008 #30 of 235

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    Because scurrilous accusations require response. It's pretty despicable that folks would resort to such scurrilous accusations, though.
  11. Apr 4, 2008 #31 of 235

    MichaelK New Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    Now I understand

    well that's actually 2 things.

    1) the voip providers apparently have to adjust their "tone" settings to match some telco standards.
    2) but tivo has a stupid system that doesn't default to a human if you press no button that it recognizes. That's a RUDE behavior that some of these automated systems are starting to have.
  12. Apr 4, 2008 #32 of 235

    MichaelK New Member

    Jan 10, 2002

    I think part of the perception is that there are no longer semi-secret features for those "in the know" here on TC.

    backdoor codes got killed off.

    We haven't seen anyone lately like that band the super friends of reality (or whatever their name was.....)

    Might be the typical longing for "the good old days" but it does seem that years ago there was much more of that sort of thing to be found here on the forums.
  13. Apr 4, 2008 #33 of 235

    MichaelK New Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    agreed the voip provider is probably wrong.

    But shouldn't the stupid automated system connect you to a human after a certain default period of time?

    My 2 cent's is that it is rude not to.

    Maybe tivo has no say in the matter with the vendor but if they do it would be the polite thing to do to connect to a human after X seconds without a response.

    Maybe they should pay more for the more annoying voice recognition option.- > "hi this is claire, what did you say? You want to buy a toaster with velvetta cheese? Please say yes?"
  14. Apr 4, 2008 #34 of 235

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

    Nov 27, 2002
    Perhaps what I find funny is that TiVo thinks it actually has something worth keeping secret - well not everything, but...

    Or that once stuff is released how unable TiVo is to communicate its value and existence to the market, thus the secret never ends in some way.
  15. Apr 4, 2008 #35 of 235

    Saxion Substantive Member

    Sep 17, 2006
    San Diego
    Pony, thanks so much for posting here.

    I can see how QAM remapping might not affect a large number of current subs, but the idea is to get new subs, and the evidence here is that there is a very large untapped market here. Obviously, there is a large market of people who only want to record their local HD channels, since you included an ATSC antenna input on the S3. Equally obvious is the fact that there is a large part of the population who cannot get perfect reception for all their local HD broadcasts, for a long list of reasons. Therefore it stands to reason that there is a large market of people who only want to record local HD, but cannot use an antenna...thus, clear QAM reception over cable.

    We have many posts that talk about known friends/relatives who would buy a TivoHD if it supported clear QAM guide data. I myself know 3 such people! And, I unfortunately have to recommended against buying a TivoHD all the time to people because of missing clear QAM guide support. TiVo would tap into a large new market if it would just add support for this. What's more, there is no other good DVR alternative for such people...cable won't rent us one for clear QAM recording...thus, TiVo could own the whole market if it would just add support for this! Please consider at least some basic level of support (like, automatically supplying OTA guide data for markets where PSIP maps clear QAM channels to OTA equivalents). I think you'd find an explosion of new TiVoHD buyers.

    Thanks Pony (my favorite TiVo poster)!!!
  16. Apr 4, 2008 #36 of 235

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

    Nov 27, 2002
    If you build it, he will come.

    An important part of understanding TiVo´s past and divining its future is to look beyond what TiVo says to what TiVo does NOT say, or KNOW itself...

    TiVo says: We have a roadmap.

    TiVo does not say: All the roads on our map lead either to dead ends, cliffs or the middle of nowhere.

    Anyone can have a roadmap. I got a road map right here. Its free with a bridge I´m selling. The roadmap has to lead somewhere worthwhile.

    TiVo says: We work according to priorities...

    TiVo does not say: The reason we are limited to addressing only these priorities is that every time we do something stupid that loses us tens of millions of dollars more (like the New Marketing Plan of 2 yrs ago) it takes money away from development work on software performance enhancements, bug fixes and new features, which might benefit our standalone users who are bringing in an average of nearly $9/mo (per old accounting method.)
  17. Apr 4, 2008 #37 of 235

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    there are products out there already that can record unencrypted QAM- and do not require a subscription.
    Sorry but we have the word now - it is just not a large audience and there are already alternatives to record them anyway including cable cards in the TiVo or OTA.

    TiVo has done the ROI analysis and found it does not look good for QAM mapping. The good news is the hackers now have a great new project ;)
  18. Apr 4, 2008 #38 of 235

    jmoak Beware of Conky!

    Jun 20, 2000

    a BIG one!
  19. Apr 4, 2008 #39 of 235

    MichaelK New Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    what jmoak said
  20. Apr 5, 2008 #40 of 235

    gilgie New Member

    Apr 5, 2008
    ive been a constant tivo user for 6 years and im on my third tivo, my first is still one i use on a daily basis. and there are 1000 times more customers now and they still give good service. they may not be waiting for the phone to ring anymore but they still give you the personal service

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