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TiVoPony, What about ESATA, in an interview you said ESATA was coming....

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by MediaLivingRoom, Sep 17, 2006.

  1. Canoehead

    Canoehead 1 of The Curs'd 200

    Sep 12, 2006
    It has a digitial decoder built in - which is what the Cable Card does (or what it unlocks, depending how you look at it). If an ESATA drive can "safely" (from a DRM perspective) be married to a CableCo DVR, then it can work with an S3.
  2. bap

    bap pab

    Dec 6, 2003
    North o'...
    I think you've pretty much hit the nail on the head as to why ESATA support wasn't included at the time of release. The 'E' part makes it much more complex than just adding a second drive to a unit. I'm willing to bet they want ESATA to be as simple to use and user friendly as the rest of the whole unit, which means cleanly handling drive failures, unexpected disconnects, etc. They've got a lot of work on their hands to support all that.
  3. herfmonster

    herfmonster technology squeezer

    Jul 12, 2006
    BAP your reply almost answered my questions.

    I just want to know so I will know how they will behave and what kinds of backup plans I need to instate.
  4. comicsacrifice

    comicsacrifice New Member

    Sep 14, 2006
    esata in november? is november also when every single cablecard 1.0 self destructs? har harrrrrrgggh.
  5. JerryInPhoenix

    JerryInPhoenix New Member

    Sep 19, 2006
    Ever had power fail with that external drive? SA8300 recovers by reformating the external drive. Not the best way to recover.

    Think there is any chance TIVO will support a SATA hub such as this one at sataport,com

    That could easily give you a couple of TBytes.
  6. BlackBetty

    BlackBetty I

    Nov 5, 2004
    Take a deep breath and relax....
  7. greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

    May 21, 2004
    The S3 only has one sata port on the motherboard. So, I assume, it can only have one internal drive.

    A 2 drive S2 is not RAID anything. They are just Master & Slave on PATA connector, but married by the filesystem(?). One fails, you loose everything.
  8. Bodshal

    Bodshal Penguin-tastic!

    Jan 4, 2005
    Not convinced it will, since that unit I think presents mutiple drives on different device ID's. Would need support in the TiVo software, which I doubt they'll do.

    If you find a unit that will stripe/jbod/raid multiple drives and that presents the array as a single SATA device, that would be uber cool. I've not really looked, yet, though.

  9. djones18

    djones18 New Member

    Jan 6, 2006
    Alexandria, VA
    I've had an eSATA (SATA II) external drive connected to my Cableco SA8300HD DVR for several months. Cablecos don't readily admit their boxes support this. The boxes must contain compatible sofware versions which the customer can readily figure out. I can understand why TIVO wants to work out the kinks. Even with the right software, many have been trying to connect these drives to Cableco HD/DVRs for several months with mixed results.

    Among the problems are incompatability with certain brands and models of SATA hard drives, external cases and eSATA cables, drive size limitations, varying degrees of pixelation and picture degradation which didn't exist before the external drive was connected, total crashes to the Cableco box when the drive was connected, and on, and on.

    I've been lucky. The external drive was recognized immediately but it had to be connected, powered on, and the DVR powered on in a specific sequence to be recognized. The drive was formatted by the DVR and locked to it for encryption purposes. Programs are then recorded to the drive with the most space remaining (some say to balance the system).

    If the external drive is removed or turned off, it retains program data. The DVR simply reverts to the internal drive for recording and playback. Once plugged back in, in the correct sequence, the external drive is recognized by its host DVR as if it had not been dis-connected. However, if the eSATA external drive is connected to another DVR or to a computer, its contents will be reformatted and lost. Don't know of anyone who has been able to defeat this so far.

    As I said earlier, this has not been a simple plug-and-play experience for many folks. Hopefully, TIVO will review the lessons from users of Cableco HD/DVRs and apply them to ensure implementation is hiccup free.

  10. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

    Sep 15, 2006

    why just use 500gb hard drives? why not go for the 750gb hard drives from Seagate.
    That way you could have 3 Terabytes not just 2 :)

  11. greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

    May 21, 2004
    There seems to be a good selection of such devices. Some much more $$$ than others.

    Here is one I have my eye on.

    I have a SataVault on loan from work that seems kinda loud, but they may be dependent more on the drives than the enclosure.
  12. JerryInPhoenix

    JerryInPhoenix New Member

    Sep 19, 2006
    You're correct, it is just a way of hanging extra drives. The port multiplier will only work if they write the driver to support more than 2 drives. It would be a lot simpler and cheaper than one of the hardware raid solutions.

    Of course even the RAID solutions will only work if they allow large physical drives. Even XP has a 2 TB limit.
  13. comicsacrifice

    comicsacrifice New Member

    Sep 14, 2006
    so whats the answer from tivo?
  14. megazone

    megazone Hardcore TiVo Geek

    Mar 3, 2002
    I already got the data from TiVo and put it in the review and FAQ and past threads - nothing has changed in the past week.

    eSATA is 'future' - no commitment for 'November', I don't know where that came from. They will not give out an date beyond 'future'. It was not included in the launch strictly as a development schedule measure, it wasn't felt to be a critical feature for product launch. It has nothing whatsoever to do with Cable Labs.

    As for the implementation - based on conversations at CES:
    1. The drive is wed to the unit. You cannot take the drive to another S3.
    2. Shows will be striped across the drives just like a unit with two drives today.
    3. If you unplug the drive then any shows with data on the external drive are gone. The unit will still function, of course. What wasn't clear at the time is if you can reconnect the drive and get those shows back, but that was likely.
    4. You cannot swap multiple eSATA drives back and forth as a libary.
  15. c3

    c3 TiVoholic

    Sep 8, 2000
    A port multiplier requires a PM-aware host, which I don't think the Broadcom chip is. It's a hardware limitation, not driver.
  16. BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

    May 15, 2002
    Seagate drives are LOUD, as they have no acoustic management capabilities.
  17. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

    Sep 21, 2004
    There are some that are not loud. The fact that it has no acoustic management support in and of itself doesn't mean its loud. It all depends on the default acoustic sound they hard code into the drive firmware. But I would agree, you have to be careful because most of the Seagate drives are set for performance and not for sound.
  18. drew2k

    drew2k Drew != Drawn

    Jun 9, 2003
    Long Island, NY
    This is the information I'm most interested in. My hope is that after the drive is reconnected you can indeed get those shows back. However, I'm curious what the "stripe" recovery process will be, for example, if the eSATA drive dies.

    Example: You record a four hour baseball game and the "stripes" for this recording occupy space on the internal and external. For the sake of argument, let's say it's 50% on each drive. Suddenly your eSATA drive dies.

    Based on what we already know, you can't watch the ball game because half the data is not there.

    But will the title for the ball game still appear in the Now Playing List?

    If it does appear, will you be allowed to delete the title, which would free up the striped data for this title that resides on the internal drive?

    If it doesn't appear in the list, how can you delete the recording and recover that space? Or will TiVo have some kind of time-sensitive internal recovery process, for example: the eSATA drive has been disconnected for XXX hours so it will free up al stripe data associated with the external drive?
  19. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

    Jan 10, 2002
    someplace there is a post that described the situation as the box will prompt you if the extrenal drive gets disconnected or dies. It would ask if you want to kill off the recordings that span onto that drive or do you want to reconnect it to get the recordings back. I got the impression that you had to pick then and there if you were going to kill off thesecond drive or not. SO if you accidently unplugged it or somethign the tivo would reconnect but it wasn't like you cold pull the drive and then come back in a week and reconnect it.

    nothin official- I think it was based on Pony's comments in vegas- but it made sense when i read it...
  20. rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

    Sep 21, 2004
    Since its not available yet, its possible none of this has even been decided or worked out yet. So any information now would be pure speculation.

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