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TiVo wish: Conflicts resolved using other Multi-Room TiVo's

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by kirbylile, Nov 4, 2012.

  1. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    They probably wouldn't do it unless they could release a USB device that had 4 OTA tuners. TiVo favors simplicity over functionality in this regard. For example...technically the XL4 could record two analog stations, but not 4, so instead of adding asymmetrical logic to allow two analog stations to record they simply disabled analog completely. It would also be possible for the standard Premiere to record two cable and two OTA channels at once, but again they don't allow it because of software complexity and a poor user experience. So unless they could release a 4 tuner OTA add-on box, which would allow you to record 4 things from either source, I don't think that would ever happen. And unfortunately I don't think such a device exists. I remember reading a post recently by Jafa, the member here who designed the HDHomeRun, and he said that while QAM tuners have dropped significantly over the last few years and chipsets have been released to incorporate more tuners, OTA tuners have remained unchanged both in design and cost. So producing a 4 tuner OTA device is significantly harder and more expensive.

    There might also be some I/O issues. I'm not sure how the USB ports are configured but if they use the same bus as the Ethernet port then it's possible using an external tuner could interfere with the network performance which could hinder MRS.

    Honestly if you want a 4 tuner OTA recorder you're probably better off looking at building an HTPC.

    Dan
     
  2. innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    And even then you will have to buy two tuner cards last I checked since on one makes a 4 tuner OTA card.
     
  3. CharlesH

    CharlesH Member

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    That pretty well describes our college-aged son. He dropped cable TV in favor of Internet services, but he also uses OTA some for sports and such.
     
  4. MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

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    beyond R&D and production there's also marketing and stock keeping that add up too. Will Best Buy allow tivo one more space on the shelf? How many more will tivo need to do produce just to sit on retail shelves. Etc. Each little bit is a small thing but together all these little things add up.

    Tivo struggles to turn a profit on millions of subs- will thousands more make a difference enough that it's worth all the resources?

    I dont know. But that's more of the equation that tivo has to figure out.
     
  5. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I have never thought it would make much sense for TiVo to build a 4 tuner OTA DVR, and I am an OTA only person and currently have 8 OTA tuners (Premiere, TiVo HD, Series 3, and a dual tuner HTPC).

    In my opinion a good solution for OTA users is what this thread has talk about: auto conflict resolution between TiVos. With that OTA users really don't need 4 tuner DVRs as it is just as easy to use multiple DVRs (remember no cable card stuff with OTA), it might cost a little more up front but not really that much more than a 4 tuner DVR + a mini.

    Given that conflict resolution would also benefit cable users and some lower level of conflict resolution will need to be built into using the up coming "mini", it seems to me that it is time for this feature to be added. It solves lots of issues and gives TiVo a feature, that other DVRs do not have.
     
  6. GoEagles

    GoEagles New Member

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    I'm kind of late to this discussion, but a 4 tuner OTA model doesn't quite make sense. True, there are 4 major networks, ABC, NBC, CBS, and Fox, but the way they schedule their line up I just can't see where someone would want to schedule something on every major network at the same exact time. S

    ome stuff on the major networks and some stuff on cable, yes, but can anyone think of any time slot where there is something you want to watch at the same half hour or hour at the same time? I'd said say no.
     
  7. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    I think you're missing the major reason why people want extra tuners - padding or recorded shows. It's not a question of recording simultaneous recordings in the same time slot but rather shows in consecutive time slots. For example, I pad every recording by 10 minutes to make sure I don't miss either the beginning or end of a show due to weird scheduling, program overruns, etc. This means I need a separate tuner for each show being recorded due to overlap.

    FYI, although it may not be considered a major network, The CW has a show or two that may interest people that are broadcast OTA. There's also PBS, now that Big Bird has a stay of execution.:D
     
  8. GoEagles

    GoEagles New Member

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    Yea, I hate the 10:00 - 11:01 scheduling and odd stuff like that. I can't wait for the XL6 to solve this. I have an Elite with PLS so I should be able to get a decent amount for it and hoping that TiVo offers a discount on the PLS for the new devices like they did with the Premiere.
     
  9. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    I totally don't understand why you think this. A 4 (or more) tuner DVR for OTA makes AT LEAST as much sense(*) as one for cable, since the OTA stations are the ones that DON'T repeat their shows multiple times within the same week. Heck, even though I do have cable, it was initially for better overall reception of broadcast channels (and that was even when one of the stations 180 degrees opposite was NOT a major network -- now they're a major network).

    (*) As much sense for the consumer. Others have stated lots of good business reasons why it doesn't make sense -- no consolidated hardware, too small a market, etc.
     
  10. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Well I didn't say it didn't make sense for the consumer (just that it wouldn't be as necessary/useful if conflict resolution were available). What makes sense for a consumer is an individual evaluation and will very greatly household to household.

    Regarding your situation as a cable user how much more would you have been willing to pay to add OTA to TiVos current 4 tuner cable DVRs? $50? $100? or nothing?

    Which is what I said, but I still believe developing auto conflict resolution between multiple TiVo DVRs does make sense for TiVo and many consumers.
     
  11. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I see several days a week where there would be multiple shows from Broadcast on at the same time that would want to be watched. This has always been the case. Which is why even twenty five years ago I had several VCRs recording content each night.

    Although for me, with all the cable content, I need to pick and choose since I don't have the time to watch everything I would really like to watch. But if cable were not around there would be many times during the week where I would want to watch three or four shows from the major networks that are on at the same time.
     
  12. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I agree and can say as an OTA only user there are many times I am recording more than 2 shows at the same time, add in the shows that go over by 1 minute and I regularly need 4 tuners.
     
  13. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    I agree that there isn't a market for TiVo to make a 4 tuner OTA DVR (yet).
    I just don't think it would be hard for them to do so with the current platform. Of course I don't really know what would be involved - I'm thinking minor hardware/software tweaks.

    I'm hoping the 'next' Tivo will be a six tuner OTA/cable workhorse. :cool:
     
  14. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    Well, I currently have one TV (and at one point had *3* Tivos on that TV at once). Even when I have multiple TVs (after buying a house), I envision getting one of the forthcoming streamer boxes (I sure hope they DON'T have a subscription fee, or they can have a lifetime purchase which presumably would be MUCH lower than lifetime on a Tivo that records). Obviously, having everything in one box is bad when something goes wrong. But for recording, I really just want everything everywhere.

    I probably would have paid $100-200 for 4-tuner OTA capability, even though I wouldn't likely use it much (like I don't on my Tivo HD). Better for future-proofing, and the ABILITY to cut the cord.

    However, the 4 tuners in one box was definitely worth it for me to get a cable-cabled (heh) device.
     
  15. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    Have you READ the other replies? There is apparently off the shelf hardware that does 4 (or was it 6) cable tuners in one chip. There AREN'T ones that do that for OTA. So the hardware would be much more complex/expensive.
     
  16. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    It was my understanding that the current tuners in the 4 tuner Tivos "could" do OTA, but TiVo disabled the OTA part because it was an either/or situation (tuners can't do both cable and OTA at the same time).

    Is this not the case?
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Nope. The platform TiVo uses only supports 4 tuners. In the 2 tuner model they have 2 QAM tuners and 2 ATSC tuners and the software dynamically switches between them depending on what needs to be recorded. In the 4 tuner model they simply filled all 4 slots with QAM tuners, so it has no ability to record ATSC at all.

    What you might be confusing it with is the ability to record analog cable. The tuners in the 4 tuner boxes could tune analog stations. However the chipset only supports encoding 2 analog streams at a time. So rather then confuse users with some asymmetrical scheduling logic they simply disabled analog completely.

    Dan
     
  18. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    Thanks. For some reason, I was confusing Premiere 2 tuner hardware with the 4 tuner hardware. I was thinking TiVo just added 2 tuners to the existing platform to make the 4 tuner Elite/XL4.
    My bad. :eek:
     

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