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Tivo vs. Hopper

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by garyflet, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. mcf57

    mcf57 Member

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    Oct 19, 2012
    GA
    I think another deterrent of a-la-cart becoming a reality too is the fact that ISPs like Comcast and AT&T are putting hard data caps on their bandwidth packages. This could severely limit the ability for some others to come in and offer HD a-la-cart of some kind that is then delivered over an internet connection. I think Sony and Verizon have been trying to hammer this out, but having a data cap might prevent a lot of people with going this route.
     
  2. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

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    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    Then you haven't bothered to read my preceding posts in this forum.

    You want math, here it is.

    Here is what I pay for video content now per month (on average):

    Dish: $103 (AT200, 1 Hopper, 1 Joey)
    Netflix: $9
    Amazon: $8
    iTunes: $15 (to rent movies)
    Total: $135

    If I switch to OTA + Streaming, this is what expect to pay:

    Tivo: $21 (worst case, or I could get lifetime)
    Netflix: $9
    Amazon: $8
    Hulu Plus: $8
    iTunes: $15
    Total: $61
    Savings: $74 or $95 with lifetime.

    If I buy a Roamio and a Mini to replace my Hopper and Joey, it would cost me $989.95 worst case, with lifetime and 3 year warranties. Throw in a really nice antenna for $137.20, and the total is $1127.15. If I am saving $95/month, I would recover my sunk costs in less than a year, and then I am only paying $40/month for content.

    Here are the shows my wife and I currently record on our DVR and where we would get them with OTA + Streaming:

    NOVA: OTA
    Nature: OTA
    Frontline: OTA
    NBC Nightly News: OTA
    Modern Family: OTA
    Big Bang Theory: OTA
    Saturday Night Live: OTA
    Castle: OTA
    60 Minutes: OTA
    Falling Skies: Amazon Prime
    Suze Orman: iTunes Audio Podcast (this is the only one where we'd lose out)
    The Daily Show: Hulu Plus
    Meet the Press: OTA
    CBS News Sunday Morning: OTA
    The Good Wife: Amazon Prime
    Masterpiece Classic: OTA
    Arrow: OTA
    The Colbert Report: Hulu Plus
    Mad Men: Netflix
    Orphan Black: Amazon Prime
    Doctor Who: Amazon Prime
    Survivor: OTA
    Today: OTA
    The Walking Dead: Netflix
    Bones: OTA
    Grey's Anatomy: OTA
    Reign: OTA
    Nashville: OTA
    Revenge: OTA
    Pretty Little Liars: Netflix
    Twisted: Netflix
    The Amazing Race: OTA

    There are also more and more other shows we watch already on Netflix and Amazon prime, like Orange is the New Black, House of Cards, Weeds, Stargate SG-1 (finally got around to watching this just recently), etc.

    We could watch 50 hours a week and still have more to watch than we have time for, and we don't even watch sports except some of the Olympics every couple of years. There are tradeoffs. We would have to wait for shows to get populated on the streaming services, but we have too much to watch now, so waiting isn't a big deal for us.

    On-demand streaming is the future. Paying for cable is the past. Everyone just hasn't realized it yet.
     
  3. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

    791
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    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    FWIW: I wasn't really interested in entering into a discussion of the merits of OTA vs. Pay TV. I really just was looking for a comparison between the Hopper and Roamio.

    Thanks,
    Ted
     
  4. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    2,767
    3
    Apr 2, 2005
    laughable conclusion. I don't think you realize that most people don't want to wait a year to watch their favorite shows.

    I don't think you realize that comparing the price of a show a year later to the price of a show when it first debuts is apples vs oranges.

    You should be pricing your Mad Men, your Falling Skies, etc on iTunes/Amazon at $3-$4/per show for an apples to apples comparison.

    Also I don't get why you price in DISH's top200 instead of top120 package given your viewing habits?!??


    Also not sure why you then need Amazon, Netflix and iTunes if you have DISH???!? That also makes the comparison silly. I mean here you are,...using this logic of, ....'I can wait a year to watch shows.' 'I have enough content to watch as it is.' So if that's really your mentality then why wouldn't DISH alone be enough?

    Not that I care about what anyone does. To each their own. I just get annoyed when they try to project that outwards into some conclusion or generalization or massive assumption of a trend and then use a non-sensical apples to oranges comparison to "prove" it.

    Here's a much more apples to apples comparison. DISH top120 vs Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, OTA and iTunes.

    $75/month regular price for TOP120, Hopper and Joey after taxes.

    vs Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, OTA and iTunes which is $40/month (before taxes?) using your figures plus lets say $10/month for Tivo setup. That would drag your worst case Tivo + lifetime costs out over 8 years or so which seems pretty reasonable if not conservative.

    So I'm seeing $75 vs $50.
     
  5. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

    791
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    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    You clearly do not get that I don't give a flying flip whether other people are willing to wait. The only thing most people I know are unwilling to wait for is sports, so I don't accept your assertion that most people are unwilling to wait anyway. The ever-declining ratings and ever-increasing streaming indicates that is the way things continue to go.

    If I am willing to wait, then why would I do this? That is kind of the whole premise of moving to this model, to break the mold of the legacy pay TV model in favor of something that favors the content consumer instead of the content distributor.

    BBC America is only in the AT200 and higher. (Doctor Who, Orphan Black, etc.)


    All the stuff that isn't on pay TV as well as the shows like Weeds which we didn't watch when it was first on.

    You clearly do care, otherwise you wouldn't argue so strongly for the status quo.
     
  6. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

    791
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    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    Well, the actual price for AT120, Hopper, Joey, and taxes for me is $81. All my prices included taxes and were rounded to the nearest dollar. In any case, your comparison is not what I would do, so it has no bearing on me.
     
  7. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

    791
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    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    Make that $82. Just got a rate increase notice.
     
  8. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    2,767
    3
    Apr 2, 2005
    And so why not use $81 number instead of $103?!??

    Every cord cutter feels the need to use this sort of logic when justifying their decision.

    And then when you call them on their bs they play the "I'll do what I want" card. :D

    It must be a nice world to live in.
     
  9. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    2,767
    3
    Apr 2, 2005
    I don't care about your personal preferences. I'm just calling you on your bs comparisons. And how you try to pass them as apples to apples. IT's obvious one can pay less for content if they wait. That's been the business model for content for a long period of time.



    ? STreaming shows a year later is no different than buying the dvd a year later. And that's been around for awhile.

    It doesn't break the legacy pay tv model because it isn't the same thing. It is a secondary outlet for content just like dvds have been.

    In your comparisons you aren't including the purchase of tvs shows from iTunes the day of or day after instead of waiting a year. That would be closer to a competitor to the legacy pay tv model.


    Ok now I see some of the reason there. You didn't mention that earlier. But it still seems odd that you pay $22/month more just for those 2 shows given how when you cut the cord you suddenly are willing to do without first run content and even without 1 show your wife watches in order to save money.

    It's a strange dichotomy.


    So using your own logic why not wait for Weeds to appear in syndication or wait for a free 3 months of Showtime deal or .... Or watch something else. That is how you seem to rationalize your cutting the cord decisions after all.




    Umm I'm for transparency and the truth. IT's clear you can't handle the truth otherwise you wouldn't make such apples to oranges comparisons. And make these sweeping generalizations and conclusions.

    I've only pointed out 2 things. Cord cutters all make apples to oranges comparisons. And going pure ala carte wouldn't necessarily save a person money.
     
  10. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    2,767
    3
    Apr 2, 2005
    No different than Amazon nor Netflix.
     
  11. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

    791
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    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    It has been a couple of years, but I did the a la carte comparison with iTunes, and it came out about the same as paying for cable/satellite. Streaming options weren't what they are now, so that wasn't really a great alternative.

    Millions have cut the cord, so are all those people wrong, just because you say so? I never said cord cutting was exactly the same as paying large sums of money for access to content as soon as it becomes available. I said I could get all I wanted and more for less cost.

    FWIW: I watched many TV shows on DVD (from in-the-mail Netflix) in the past, and that was great. The clear difference between that and streaming is the immediacy and portability streaming provides.

    IMHO, the interesting dichotomy is to complain that the comparison of disparate things (pay TV and streaming/OTA) isn't comparing the same type of things. Seems fairly contradictory to me.

    Of course they are not exactly the same. There are always trade offs. There would be trade offs with going from Dish to TimeWarnerCable (my other Pay TV option). Weighing those trade-offs are an individual choice. You clearly don't want to endure the trade-offs. Why do you care that I am saying I am willing?

    Speaking of trade-offs, what I actually want to know is whether I will suffer any by going from Hopper/Joey to Roamio/Mini. I am not talking about content. I am talking about usability, stability, performance, etc.

    Thanks,
    Ted
     
  12. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    2,767
    3
    Apr 2, 2005

    Show me where I said people are wrong for cutting the cord.

    All I'm saying is the logic people like to lay out for doing so is never apples to apples. IT's weird to see cord cutters do the same thing big corporations like to do with their comparisons.

    I don't care what tradeoffs you want to make. OR what you do. I'm just not sure why you feel the need to pass off watching content a year after it comes out as the same service you get in a cable or satellite tv package or why you like to include Netflix, Amazon and itunes on the same side of the equation as DISH. And then basically say, well if I take out DISH then tv is much cheaper for me. Doh!

    Even funnier coming from someone that doesn't want to pay for content they don't watch and wants to cut programming costs. This is the same person who adds Netflix, Amazon and a $15/month iTunes habit to a DISH Top200 sub. Not wrong to do that. But doesn't exactly jive with some of your sweeping declarations.

    This (the watching shows a year later) is a major tradeoff. It isn't some minor equipment difference or UI difference that you would see going from satellite to cable or vice versa.

    And thus one is supposed to believe that you're seriously inquiring about how a Tivo is going to work compared to a Hopper on a Tivo forum when according to your logic you would be getting the same content for $70 less per month if you went with Tivo? Really?

    Just please tell me I'm in the twilight zone?
     
  13. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

    5,427
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    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    Most of those series shows are just junk. True, you never know what's going to be on where.

    Not until the content is available through streaming, and the quality and reliability is the same as cable. Content is probably the biggest one. I don't see content un-bundling anytime soon. If anything, the advent of a lot of it being available by cable-based streaming has made cable that much stronger.
     
  14. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,194
    25
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Me personally, I don't watch any ESPN channels except the main one. And that would normally be for an NFL game. Nothing else.

    As far as other content. I currently pay $75 a month for the Ultimate HD tier on FiOS in a bundle. Which also includes several premium channels and the Redzone channel. Plus I do have OTA. But alot of my recordings are from cable. For me to drop cable and purchase the shows from streaming would cost me alot more than what I pay now. It would not be worth it for me to cut the cord. Of course I'm sure I could pare things down and get the price lower. But TV is so inexpensive right now. I pay $45 less than I did in 2001 when I had DirecTV. And I pay less than in 2007 when I first got FiOS. And I get alot more channels than back then. So I can't really complain much.
     
  15. ncted

    ncted A leaf on the wind

    791
    0
    May 13, 2007
    Durham, NC
    I'm clearly not getting through to you, so I'm guessing one of us in some kind of zone. You're ignoring the entire premise, so I'll be ignoring you on this topic from here on out with the following caveat:

    No one here has given me any reason to think I will be as happy Roamio/Mini as I am with the Hopper/Joey. Everyone seems more interested in assaulting my reasons for wanting to switch. Based on this discussion, the horrible experiences I've had the last 2 times I tried to switch to Tivo, and the impression I get that Tivo seems to be moving away from the OTA market and hardware in general, I have serious doubts I would be happy with the Roamio doing OTA-only -- not because of content issues, but because I've seen almost no one championing the platform, and the feedback I have gotten from the community has been to try to dissuade me from that path.

    I've seen more support for Tivo from folks in the Dish forums on Satelliteguys. Dish is still the least expensive Pay TV option available to me, and they apparently have the best hardware/software platform and a very helpful community, so, unless something surprising happens, I expect I'll stick with Dish and reduce my package to the AT120 as you suggested and watch BBC America shows when they arrive on Amazon Prime, at least until someone comes out with an OTA DVR that is actually comparable to the Hopper.

    Thanks for whatever.

    Later,
    Ted
     
  16. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

    5,427
    5
    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    TiVo is a cable-oriented product. If it weren't for the fact that they could easily make a cable/OTA product to get in on the over-hyped "cord cutting" phenomenon, there wouldn't be an OTA TiVo.

    TiVo makes most of their money from deals with small MSOs to provide DVRs, and as such, their consumer sales are also very geared towards cable.

    So the real comparison is DISH/Hopper vs. TiVo/cable. It looks like you're in a TWC area, so you have the misflagged channel problem, which cripples a part of TiVo's functionality, as well as a lack of VOD support. However, the fair comparison is still DISH/Hopper vs. TiVo/cable.
     
  17. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    2,767
    3
    Apr 2, 2005

    Well if you are ignoring me now it won't be much different than what has been going on. :)


    Anyway if you can get over the content difference and the use of 3 apps plus a DVR UI to watch tv assuming your OTA reception is doable then I don't see why moving to a Tivo from a Hopper would be a show stopper in light of saving $70/month according to your figures.
     
  18. bstar1456

    bstar1456 New Member

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    May 8, 2014
    Tivo is good. But You have to do a cost benifit analysis taking consideration of market and demand.
     
  19. tibbyjr

    tibbyjr New Member

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    May 17, 2014
    Hi
    I have went from Hopper to Roamio plus and have some questions .
    1- Can you have more than 1 set of favorites ?
    2- can the Romio auto tune ?
    3- Does the guide take over a day to get all program information ? ( I get the Hd Channels but the guide says to be announced , but I do have guide information on Sd stations) and if this is a problem do I contact Tivo or Comcast ?
    Thanks.
     

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