1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

TiVo Stream via VPN?

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream' started by davezatz, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. Sep 7, 2012 #1 of 135
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

    4,588
    3
    Apr 18, 2002
    Northern...
    I'm kicking off this thread so we can have a dedicated discussion of ways to access the TiVo Stream outside the home. I assume it can be done, the question is how...
     
  2. Sep 7, 2012 #2 of 135
    compnurd

    compnurd New Member

    1,011
    0
    Oct 6, 2011
    Should be in the Stream Forum?
     
  3. Sep 7, 2012 #3 of 135
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

    4,588
    3
    Apr 18, 2002
    Northern...
    Well, crap. I didn't know we had a Stream forum. Just asked the moderators to relocate us.
     
  4. Sep 7, 2012 #4 of 135
    vectorcatch

    vectorcatch New Member

    129
    0
    Nov 20, 2008
    I posted this in another thread, but it seems pertinent here as well.

    For a VPN to work it would need to support mDNS and Bonjour.

    This means that your VPN client IP address given out on your network would have to be on the same subnet as your Tivo. It also means that your VPN server would need to correctly handle multicast and arp requests from the VPN client. The VPN Client would have to appear like any other device on the local LAN.

    The only non-commercial solution I have seen that may be able to do this is StrongSwan (using the dhcp and farp plugins). OpenVPN may have similar functionality, but as it doesn't work with iDevices (non-Jailbroken) I haven't looked.

    This will never work with PPTP.
     
  5. Sep 7, 2012 #5 of 135
    danjw1

    danjw1 New Member

    293
    0
    Sep 13, 2005
    So is the question if the Stream has to be on the same subnet as the TiVo or if the other device (i.e. iPad) has to be on the same subnet as the Stream? I would actually like to know the answer to both these questions.
     
  6. Sep 7, 2012 #6 of 135
    ronaldheft

    ronaldheft New Member

    21
    0
    Aug 18, 2011
    I would assume all three have to be on the same subnet for discovery. They probably all use Bonjour.
     
  7. Sep 9, 2012 #7 of 135
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

    680
    0
    Nov 19, 2010
    Birmingham, AL
    I would think you're going to need a really, really good upload at home for this to work. Like, 5+mbits.
     
  8. Sep 10, 2012 #8 of 135
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,504
    177
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    The download options are either 610MB per hour or 1GB per hour. If the streaming bitrate is equivalent to Best that's only about 2.2Mbps, and if it's equivalent to Standard, which I think it is, then it would only be 1.4Mbps. I think a lot of people have upload speeds in those ranges. And if TiVo really wanted to allow internet streaming they could probably lower the resolution a bit, then lower the bitrate a bit and get a perfectly watchable (on an iPad) stream at <1Mbps.

    I think the bigger issue might be copyright issues. I'm not sure if CCI flagged shows can be streamed outside the home. Slingbox gets away with it because they exploit the "analog hole". But TiVo is doing a direct digital to digital stream and I'm not sure if the rules allow for those streams to be sent out over the internet to a remote location.

    Of course they could limit this feature to non-protected content, but I'm not sure if people would understand such a limitation or react well to it. Even now you see people complain about not being able to download protected shows that they can stream. It would muddy things even more if they could stream some, but not all, shows over the internet.

    Personally I hope I'm wrong about the rules and TiVo can allow internet streaming in a future update, but I'm OK if they don't. The Stream works exactly as I expected and I'm happy with it.

    Dan
     
  9. Sep 10, 2012 #9 of 135
    pattont

    pattont New Member

    35
    0
    Jan 17, 2006
    Tennessee
    I am really hoping to get this working. I am running Astaro V8 on a machine and have it currently configured for PPTP for my iPad. I am going to try to get ipsec setup to see if that does what I need it to do. This is really the main reason I want a stream, If I can't get this working, I will likely return it.
     
  10. Sep 10, 2012 #10 of 135
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,504
    177
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    I read a bit about this yesterday and getting Bonjure to work over a VPN sounds like it's almost impossible. Seems like there are a few people who were able to fake it for iTunes streaming or Mac networking, but it sounded like a kludge that may not work well with the way the TiVo app works. But if you do get it working I'd love to hear about it. While I don't go on the road much it would be nice to have this ability anyway just in case. Even if it only worked for downloads and not streaming that would still be worth setting up.

    Dan
     
  11. Sep 10, 2012 #11 of 135
    sirector

    sirector New Member

    3
    0
    Sep 10, 2012
    It should be possible using an OpenVPN Tap based VPN. This creates a Layer 2 VPN that simulates an ethernet connection between two sites. Its not the most efficient way to do a VPN and there can be other issues involved but it does create a single broadcast domain across two different sites.

    I use this to bridge iTunes Home Sharing so that an Apple TV at one location can access movies stored in iTunes at another location.
     
  12. Sep 10, 2012 #12 of 135
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

    680
    0
    Nov 19, 2010
    Birmingham, AL
    Getting around the 'stream outside the home' restriction is precisely why you need to use a VPN, and that's precisely why the Stream doesn't let you stream outside the home by default. This is definitely a gray area discussion.

    If you have a real VPN, it will work, since to the devices being connected, it's simply as if you're on the local network. If you're doing something like Hamachi or some other forwarding service, you may be in for some trouble.
     
  13. Sep 11, 2012 #13 of 135
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,504
    177
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Care to explain how exactly you did it? I've onlymever used a very basic Windows based VPN, but if I had instructions I could try it and see if it works with the stream.

    Dan
     
  14. Sep 11, 2012 #14 of 135
    sirector

    sirector New Member

    3
    0
    Sep 10, 2012
    My setup used a Linux server at one site and an embedded pfsense router at the other site. OpenVPN also works on windows so in theory it could be done there but I don't know the details.

    I followed the Ubuntu OpenVPN guide at:
    https://help.ubuntu.com/12.04/serverguide/openvpn.html

    and then followed the "Advanced bridged VPN configuration on server" near the end.

    Some of the quirks become in making sure that internet bound traffic at both sites goes directly to the internet and not through the VPN, and making sure that DHCP traffic stays within each LAN even though by default it will want to go across the OpenVPN tap link. These are places where a routed VPN works better but that is not an option in this case.
     
  15. Sep 11, 2012 #15 of 135
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
    4
    Oct 31, 2007
    This is the problem...

    I have read a number of aproaches that require computer connections on both sides of the VPN Tunnel to allow Multicast Bonjour to communicate. The only practical use case for this is if you have two homes and just want to be able to connect the two physical environments - but that is a pretty major constraint.

    The Ipad will allow you to directly connect to either an L2TP, PPTP or IPSec VPN. The question is how can you get Multicast Bonjour working from VPN Host to iPad?
     
  16. Sep 11, 2012 #16 of 135
    morac

    morac Cat God

    8,954
    22
    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    I'm not sure that's 100% accurate. I have Tomato USB (Toastman's version) installed on my Linksys E3000 and one of the features is a VPN PPTP server. I can set it up so that VPN clients are on the same subnet as my LAN devices and there's also a "Broadcast Relay Mode" setting which I have set to 2-way.

    That said, I've never gotten the TiVo app to work when using the VPN outside my home (it works in the home). Granted I've only ever tried it using 3G, so it's possible that the iPhone simply won't forward multicast traffic over 3G. I now have a WiFi at work, but unfortunately they block VPN connections so I can't test that.

    My guess is that the limitation is with iOS's VPN implementation rather than PPTP though.

    On a side note, there are other VPN clients beyond the ones built into iOS. Juniper and Cisco VPN clients are in the App store.
     
  17. Sep 11, 2012 #17 of 135
    cipherwar

    cipherwar New Member

    6
    0
    Jan 11, 2012
    In order to get this to work you need to setup Wide Area Bonjour. Regular LAN based Bonjour is delivered over ip multicast which isn't typically transported over VPN connections.

    With Wide Area Bonjour you setup a DNS server to advertise the Bonjour services. I see the following Tivo services being advertised via Bonjour on my network:

    _tivo-device._tcp.
    _tivo-mindrpc._tcp.
    _tivo-remote._tcp.
    _tivo-videos.tcp.
    _tivo-videostream._tcp.
    _tivo-xcode._tcp.

    You would need to add mDNS entries for the above records. Then have the VPN client use this DNS server for name resolution. The client should then be able to connect to the services remotely.

    Looks like dyn-dns is offering an experimental bonjour-dns service:
    http://dyn.com/support/bonjour-and-dns-discovery/
     
  18. Sep 13, 2012 #18 of 135
    pattont

    pattont New Member

    35
    0
    Jan 17, 2006
    Tennessee
    Does anyone have more than "theory" or "what should work" on this issue? I have tried a number of different VPN approaches and I am coming up short thus far.
     
  19. Sep 13, 2012 #19 of 135
    tomm1079

    tomm1079 New Member

    567
    0
    May 10, 2005
    back when the IPad app first came out i tried alot of things but could never get it to work remotely.

    the issue was Bonjour so i hope someone knows ways around it
     
  20. Sep 13, 2012 #20 of 135
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,504
    177
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    I read and searched a lot and I never found anyone who successfully got Bonjure working over VPN on an iPad. There seems to be someway to get it to work with PCs using OpenVPN, but it's not compatible with iPad. Maybe you could use a PC as some sort of gateway, but that seems really inconvenient.

    Dan
     

Share This Page