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Tivo Series 3 - Bad capacitors in power supply

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by johnsom, Jul 25, 2011.

  1. Jun 10, 2012 #61 of 532
    HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

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    Staunton, VA
    I did finally get the parts and repaired my original S3 OLED power supply which had bulging capacitors for the C401/C402 (2200uF 6.3V). Thought I would post the parts list here for anyone else looking to do this.

    TiVo S3 OLED capacitor list:
    3Y power supply: CP-1104 R2
    TiVo PN: SPWR-00008-000 Rev A3

    I went ahead and replaced 11 of the 15 capacitors to hopefully preemptively catch any of the other primary ones that might fail. The ones that I replaced fall into 3 main groups on the power supply board so that's how I've listed them starting with the ones that were bulging on mine.

    C401 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81 (Alternate: P15308CT-ND?)
    C402 2200uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FR0J222 Digikey P14365-ND $0.81 (Alternate: P15308CT-ND?)

    C601 2200uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C222 Digikey P14402-ND $1.01
    C701 2200uF 25V Panasonic EEU-FR1E222L Digikey P14428-ND $1.43
    C501 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
    C502 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
    C504 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01

    C503 3300uF 10V Panasonic EEU-FR1A332 Digikey P14383-ND $1.01
    C603 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49 (Alternate: P15342CT-ND?)
    C702 470uF 16V Panasonic EEU-FR1C471 Digikey P14394-ND $0.49 (Alternate: P15342CT-ND?)
    C403 1000uF 6.3V Panasonic EEU-FM0J102 Digikey P12340-ND $0.51

    All are rated at 10000hrs@105C except for the last 3 which are 6000hrs@105C and 4000hrs@105C. Cost was $9.59 in parts plus $0.48 tax and $4.91 S&H for a total of $14.98.

    I actually ordered enough caps to repair my 2nd S3 OLED as well since it has a few bulging 3300uF caps so the S&H was for both sets although the way it was boxed and shipped, I'm not sure it would have been any cheaper for just 1 set of caps.

    I hope this helps someone else who might have an S3 OLED with a bad caps!

    Scott
     
  2. Jun 14, 2012 #62 of 532
    schoolbus

    schoolbus New Member

    9
    0
    Jun 12, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Thanks Scott. I just happened to be doing this same thing right now and figured I'd search and see if anyone already did, though I was already in process so I did it more for sanity check. Here's some updates for you: You listed 401 twice - the one next to it is 402. and 50? is 503. And where you listed 503 is really 504. At least this is how it is on my Rev A2 board.

    I also added what I observed by tracing the routes, but not actually checking voltages, so these comments could be off

    C220 - 47uF 50V - Connected to: primary side of transformer
    C227 - 10uF 25V - Connected to: primary side of transformer

    C120 - 470uF 200V - Connected to: primary side of transformer

    C601 - 2200uf 16V - Connected to: 7.5V (pre-inductor)
    C701 - 2200uF 25V - Connected to: 12V (pre-inductor)
    C502 - 3300uF 10V - Connected to: 5V (pre-inductor) [C502, C501 & C504 in parallel]
    C501 - 3300uF 10V - Connected to: 5V (pre-inductor) [C502, C501 & C504 in parallel]
    C504 - 3300uF 10V - Connected to: 5V (pre-inductor) [C502, C501 & C504 in parallel]

    C401 - 2200uF 6.3V - Connected to: seems to be on 3.3V line
    C402 - 2200uF 6.3V - Connected to: seems to be on 3.3V line

    C306 - 2.2uF 50V - Connected to: secondary side amongst signals

    C503 - 3300uF 10V - Connected to: Red 5V Output
    C403 - 1000uF 6.3V - Connected to: Orange 3.3V Output
    C603 - 470uF 16V - Connected to: Grey 7.5V Output
    C702 - 470uF 16V - Connected to: Yellow 12V Output
     
  3. Jun 14, 2012 #63 of 532
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    From what I've seen so far, the ones that go bad are actually post-inductor, that is, assuming for the sake of illustration a current flow from positive to ground, current flows from the transformer secondary through the big coil to the other end of the coil which is soldered to a point which connects to the red or the yellow wire and to the + terminal of the bad cap(s) with the - terminal connected to the same place all the black wires are, which is to say, ground.


    Assuming that current flows from positive to negative is known as conventional current theory, and still gets used a lot, especially in analyzing negative ground systems.

    It is that view of current flow I'm using to say post-inductor.

    Electron current theory says that the flow of current is actually the flow of electrons, and it goes from negative to positive.
     
  4. Jun 14, 2012 #64 of 532
    schoolbus

    schoolbus New Member

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    0
    Jun 12, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Yes, current flow is what I was referring to, as most would likely understand it as flowing from the wall socket through a bunch of stuff and out/ending at the colored wires leaving the power supply board. I roughly put the list above in that order as well, in groups from top to bottom.

    Mine that is obviously failed is C701. There may be others, but not obvious. I will likely replace all on the power rails on the secondary side of transformer.

    Looking back at my list, I see my copy/paste from excel loses the columns causing the voltages to be listed next to each other - I'll edit that so it's less confusing in that regard.
     
  5. Jun 14, 2012 #65 of 532
    HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

    2,784
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    Jan 1, 2002
    Staunton, VA
    Thanks for the feedback. I've fixed the C402 as that was an obvious cut and paste mistake. I was going by the numbers that I had jotted on an index cards for the rest and I just checked my spreadsheet and found that I had C501, C503 and C504 listed as being together and had not updated C50? there either (I think it had the white "glue" over it on the board).

    I'll fix those when I repair my other TiVo which has the same rev board.

    Scott
     
  6. Jun 23, 2012 #66 of 532
    CrashHD

    CrashHD I am the me.

    757
    0
    Nov 10, 2006
    MO, USA
    Outstanding work, my good man!! I just got mine running. I ordered your entire list (parts are too cheap as compared to shipping, best to have everything!)

    First I replaced only the bulging caps. Plugged in power supply. Still goes tick tick tick, and 12v line is at 6-7 volts. Replaced more caps. Test again...same results. Replaced all the rest of them. Test again. Tick tick tick...damn.

    Scratch head, and wonder if PSU needs a load against it to run. I was leery of testing this way, I didn't want to fry the mobo if I'd wrecked the PSU unit, but I was out of options.

    Hooked up the hard drive and motherboard, and it powered up to the sunrise screen!! Now to get a good image on that hard drive, and my "for parts/as-is" lifetime ebay bargain tivo will be ready to go!
     
  7. Jun 23, 2012 #67 of 532
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    semi-coastal NC

    For future reference, either the PROPER motherboard OR a hard drive should be sufficient load to momentarily test a TiVo's switch-mode power supply.
     
  8. Jun 23, 2012 #68 of 532
    CrashHD

    CrashHD I am the me.

    757
    0
    Nov 10, 2006
    MO, USA
    The hard drive alone was not sufficient.

    My S3 image from bittorrent turned out to be corrupted. I just now finished installing the one you hosted on dropbox and posted on the image thread, thx. I'm looking at "Almost there...etc etc" right now

    I'm actually glad I didn't figure the power supply thing out sooner. If I had, I might never have replaced the rest of the caps, and long term, this is probably best.
     
  9. Jun 23, 2012 #69 of 532
    HerronScott

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

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    Staunton, VA
    CrashHD,

    Glad it helped! I saw something similar trying to measure the voltage without load both in swapping in the good power supply from my 2nd S3 and after I had replaced the caps. I connected input power without connecting the output connections just to make sure I hadn't made any mistakes in soldering in the new caps and when nothing smoked, hooked everything up correctly.

    Scott
     
  10. Jun 23, 2012 #70 of 532
    CrashHD

    CrashHD I am the me.

    757
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    Nov 10, 2006
    MO, USA
    Is there any reason to replace the white adhesive that was on the caps?

    I used small dabs of hot glue, because it gives a little support, but can be peeled back off later if I need it to. Since I replaced all the caps in that area with the good ones from digikey, I don't anticipate getting back into that area of the PSU again.
     
  11. Jun 23, 2012 #71 of 532
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    More to hold them in place for soldering and shipping than anything else, so I wouldn't worry about it.
     
  12. Jun 30, 2012 #72 of 532
    RachelZ3

    RachelZ3 New Member

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    May 14, 2004
    I replaced the power supply on my Series 3 with a power supply from Weaknees in November 2011. Today while watching Spongebob with my 4 year old it all went black. No lights, no power.
    Methinks the "new" power supply (or the capacitors, after reading this thread) went bad.
    Back to Weaknees, they don't claim the power supplies they sell for the S3's are "new", just "replacement". The warranty is 90 days. I buy a "replacement" power supply for $150, send them back the dead PS at my own cost and get $50 back. If they die every 90 days or so, I am paying $100 plus cost of shipping and giving them stock to refurb to boot, only to pay them again.
    And lose the use of my S3 for as long as it takes to do all this, and considering we're out of town for 2 weeks...
    Unitron, I hope you are still replacing capacitors. I will PM you in hope that you can help me :)
    Just thought I would post to let folks reading know that if they do buy the replacement from weaknees, this is the deal.
     
  13. Jun 30, 2012 #73 of 532
    RachelZ3

    RachelZ3 New Member

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    May 14, 2004
    Unitron:
    Hmm, well I am not allowed to send you a PM until I make 4 more posts... so here's the PM I tried to send to you:
    I might be able to sort out the information on the thread and buy a soldering iron and the parts, but I'm out of time and patience, and wouldn't like to screw it up.

    I'd prefer to pay you to sort it out :)
    No hard feelings with weaknees, but it doesn't feel right to just keep paying them more than $100.00 for refurbs that have a 90 day warranty and punk out after 6 months. I'm probably lucky it lasted 6 months!

    I replaced the power supply in November, it worked well enough since then (plus new cable cards, twice).

    What do you think? And if you're willing to fix it, do I send the whole Tivo or just the power supply?

    Many thanks for all the helpful posts and information,

    a very tired Mommy,
    Rachel
    P.S. So far when I try to find my old posts (must be about this) I can't.
     
  14. Jun 30, 2012 #74 of 532
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    I fix my own, otherwise I give advice. I'm not in a position to do it and offer any kind of guarantee.

    If that's the original S3 (TCD648250), I'm not even in a position to properly test it, 'cause I don't have an original S3 to hook it to.

    I'll try to email or PM you tomorrow when I'm awake to find out where you are geographically, and see if we can find you a fix-it shop.

    If you can't PM yet, maybe you can receive and anwer.

    Of course a clever person who's not a spambot could also probably figure out how to send me one of those electronic messages named after physical ones at coastalnet.com

    It occurs to me, unfortunately, that if Weaknees actually refurbed the power supply they sold you, the first thing they would have done is replaced "the likely suspects" with quality capacitors, which means if it's the power supply, it's more likely to be some other component or components gone bad.

    The kind that don't advertise themselves visually like the "industrial espionage" caps tend to.
     
  15. Jul 2, 2012 #75 of 532
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    With a join date of 2004 your other posts are probably in Archive 1 or Archive 2, and that's why neither of us can find them.

    A little Google-Fu later and sure enough

    http://archive.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=168698
     
  16. Jul 16, 2012 #76 of 532
    Paul7285

    Paul7285 New Member

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    Jul 16, 2012
    I have an S3 TiVo HD. I've tried to reboot about 6 times now and all I'm getting is "Welcome...Powering Up" for 30-40 seconds before it flickers onscreen and does it again. It's a vicious loop. I have a 500GB Western Digital external hard drive attached.

    I took the top off to check the capacitors. None are bulging. None are domed.
    The unit runs quietly. No clicking. Nothing. Even the fan is quiet. I cleared out the dust and tried rebooting one more time. Same thing as before.

    I even tried kick starting it but it won't let me. I can hold the pause button down until the cows come home but I never see the yellow or red lights.

    I read 3 pages on the "bad cap thread" and the stories are similar if not dead on. Looking at the capacitors, they all seem fine. How would I know if they're bad? And yes, the larger cap is a CapXon.

    I have Lifetime service on this TiVo so I need to fix this. Any suggestions?
     
  17. Jul 16, 2012 #77 of 532
    daveak

    daveak Series 3 Novice

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    There is also a good chance it is the external drive. Have you run done any of the tests on it?
     
  18. Jul 16, 2012 #78 of 532
    Paul7285

    Paul7285 New Member

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    Not as of yet. It's fairly new and it's the Western Digital recommended and sold by TiVo (I purchased it from their website). That's not to say it couldn't be the problem......I had a 750GB from Seagate before this and it lasted for years.

    It wasn't designed to be on all the time (the Seagate drive) and it ran hot unless I put a fan right on it.I've always had pretty good luck with my hard drives that's why I'm a bit reluctant to go there. I'm also a realist and know that might be it.
     
  19. Jul 16, 2012 #79 of 532
    CrashHD

    CrashHD I am the me.

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    Nov 10, 2006
    MO, USA
    This does not sound like a power supply /capacitors issue. It smells more like a bad hard drive.
     
  20. Jul 16, 2012 #80 of 532
    Paul7285

    Paul7285 New Member

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    Jul 16, 2012
    Is it possible to plug in the external to my laptop to run some tests?
     

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