1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tivo S4 Predictions?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by qz3fwd, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. Jan 5, 2008 #1 of 57

    qz3fwd Member

    Jul 6, 2007
    I can envision the next gen HD Tivo offering:
    0. Fast/responsive GUI.
    1. Up to 4 tuners, OTA & QAM
    2. Standard 500 Gb HDD with a free hot swap bay in the back for user supplied drives (trayless). Just pop in your own 1TB Seagate and record/archive away. People can move permitted recordings from the 500 to their own drive and avoid network transfers to their PC's
    3. Premium model including SAT tuners (2)
    4. SDV compatible
    5. Real HD menus
    6. 2 Way cablecards allowing PPV/VOD
    7 Vudu sytle downloads including HD stuff.
    8. Streaming internet content. Miss dedserate housewives sunday, playback ABC/CBS/NBC/etc web episodes.
    9. Optional model with Blu-Ray drive? (Probably too expensive)
    10. Xbox live/PS3 movie downloads.
    11. Playback of your own network attached storage content.

    What else.

    They actually read these forums and give us things like space remaining indicator, ability to delete recordings as well as remotely schedule rec's......
  2. Jan 5, 2008 #2 of 57

    qz3fwd Member

    Jul 6, 2007
    With the S3 supposedly out of production, how long before the S4?
    Maybe CES 2008?
  3. Jan 5, 2008 #3 of 57

    pkscout Active Member

    Jan 10, 2003
    Honolulu, HI
    That's not a prediction, it's a wish list. I predict we will not see a 4 tuner TiVo for at least 5 years and at least that long (and probably longer) for something that works with cable and satellite in one box.

    I also predict that if the box you've listed above ships it will cost at least $5,000. ;)
  4. Jan 5, 2008 #4 of 57

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    S3 out of production? Where did you hear that? Sounds like a rumor to me...
  5. Jan 5, 2008 #5 of 57

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

    Nov 27, 2002
    This has gotten out of hand. We really need a Series 4 Forum now!
  6. Jan 5, 2008 #6 of 57

    lrhorer Active Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    I wouldn't be willing to pay anything extra for this over 2 tuners. Its an increasing cost for diminishing returns situation. The gains for 2 tuners over 1 are huge. The gains for 3 tuners over 2 are minimal.

    This would increase the size and weight of the TiVo, plus requiring a much larger power supply. I think all things considered this wouldn't be the best use of engineering and manufacturing dollars. External drives work very well.

    I don't think CableLabs would ever allow this.

    They would have to make nice with DirecTV or Dish. Don't hold your breath.

    This is virtually essential. It's virtually mutually exclusive with the last part of #2, though.

    What about people who want to use their SD outputs? It's doable, but could be problematic.

    All CableCards are 2 way, and always have been. If the host unit is compatible with SDV, it's 2 Way.

    PPV, and VOD? Who cares? The TiVo makes them almost completely irrelevant. CableLabs wouldn't even begin to allow such a thing in any case, unless the FCC forces them to. The minimal benefits accorded by such a utility are far exceeded by the size of the can of worms TiVo would likely be opening if they attempted this unless the FCC steps in with some very stringent regulations. Given the size of the MPAA and MSO lobbies, I find this highly unlikely.

    This is already possible. I do it all the time. Streaming playback would be nice, however. Just because I want to watch something on my server doesn't usually mean I want it hanging around on the TiVo. This of course would be no more difficult for an S2 and S3 than an S4.

    They do read it. They are also aware of the myriad of pitfalls that go with attempting to create a free space indicator on a platform which never has any free space, and on which the meaning of "Free Space" varies widely based upon the user. No matter how they attempted this, more than half of the usewrs would be unhappy with the implementation, unless it's highly configurable.

    By that, I think you mean "remotely delete recordings". I think this is probably one of the most requested items out there. If they decide to implement it, I would expect it to show up on the S2 and S3 probably before the S4.
  7. Jan 5, 2008 #7 of 57
    Luke M

    Luke M Member

    Nov 5, 2002
    In my experience, recording conflicts still happen with some frequency with only 2 'tuners'. 3 or 4 would be most welcome. This is one of the best improvements they could make, IMHO.
  8. Jan 5, 2008 #8 of 57

    qz3fwd Member

    Jul 6, 2007
    Yes-My Wish list.
    I hope santa is listening.
  9. Jan 5, 2008 #9 of 57

    qz3fwd Member

    Jul 6, 2007
    I keep seeing this statement/rumor here, together with 0 stock avaliability wherever I look. Maybe its just a rumor.
  10. jebbbz

    jebbbz Member

    Sep 7, 2007
    35th and...
    Since this is more of a wish-list than prediction thread I will toss my hopes out, too.

    Basically, I would like Tivo to offer a barebones with Tivo supplying only what only Tivo must. To keep Cablelabs from throwing a fit the motherboard, tuners, CPU(s), special chips, outputs including video, and OS have to come from Tivo. The case and power supply can, too, for convenience. Beyond that I could supply my own HDD, remote (I have three Tivo remotes already) and even RAM, depending on what Tivo used and whether adding a DIMM slot or two is more expensive than a few hundred megs of soldered-on RAM. If it would save some money on the chipsets I'd give up analog recording and the modem.

    Offering a barebones would save costs for Tivo to beef up the hardware (assuming the S3 and THD are not already powerful enough) to be able to transcode MPEG2 HD to MPEG4 HD. I'm not crazy about the external drive approach Tivo has taken (under Cablelabs duress, perhaps). You get more capacity but you double your failure points. One big, high quality internal drive could triple or quadruple its effective capacity if the recordings could be transcoded which also would allow us to select Good-Better-Best transcodes to save even more room.

    I'd like to be able to use the second SATA connection for an internal DVD player, say, a laptop drive (although an external player connection would do). Even simple DVD player software would let me stay with the Tivo remote and environment for the times I want to watch a DVD rather than a recording.

    I, too, would like to add a tuner or two and I would be happy with just USB ATSC tuners. It would allow the internal hybrid Tivo tuners to be dedicated to cable only. (Of course, Tivo would much rather I just get another Tivo.)

    If the S4 cannot properly stream video off a PC (in enough formats so I don't have to transcode) at least let me attach an external USB HDD for playback of recordings from elsewhere. Keep the DRM barriers restricted to the minimum needed to placate Cablelabs

    And add enough USB ports for all the above plus a keyboard and mouse. Then I'll be happy.

    For a while.
  11. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

    Sep 15, 2006
    Being faster more responive Probably. I would love 3 or even 4 tuners. The likelyhood of that being in the S4. Highly unlikely

    Swappable Drives... Doubtfull. 500gb standard drive. VERY Probable.
    IF this happend... it would be offered by DirecTV &/or Dish directly. The likelyhood of that happening. Nil To none. But stranger things have happend.
    I personaly would be VERY surprised if the S4 didn't have SDV capability built in. Very dumb move if it didn't.
    I would love to see real HD menus. They look pretty good now on my TV's but I can imagine how much nicer they will be in true HD. Hopefully this will happen as well.
    Possible, but IMHO very doubtfull. I would be more willing to say it would pop up in the S5 though. I personally don't care or use PPV/VOD It is way overpriced & the free stuff from TWC sucks.
    They have an exlusive contract with Amazon Unbox. So maybe hopefully soon Amazon Unbox will start offering HD content. Although the S4 would need to support Dolby-HD & DTS-HD for true 7.1 Surround sound.
    Isn't that what VOD is for?
    Yes it would. Not because of the cost of the drive, but because of Licensings Fees. Besides that. I prefer a Stand Alone Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player such as my Samsung BD-UP5000 (Plays both formats).
    Absolutely not. I allready have an Xbox Elite for this purpose. Don't like redundant equipment.
    I would LOVE this feature.... PLEASE TIVO if your reading this... CONSIDER Support for NAS (Networked attached Storage) content... Why do I love this? Because I store my entire MP3/WMA, Movies, Photos On TWO (2) 3TB (Raid 5) NAS.
    We have been asking fora space remaining indicator since the S1. Doubt that will happen anytime soon though.

    Would love to see them make improvements to the remote. Add 3 more LEARNABLE Buttons.

    As far as the S3 being out of production. I think thats just rumor. Most companies don't stop producing a unit until they have a replacement. Some I know consider the TiVo HD as the replacement. But I highly doubt that it is.

  12. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    It's not a matter of being dumb or not, it a matter of being possible or not. Right now there is no such thing as "SDV capable", because there is no single standard. Just as there is no single HD recording standard (Blu-ray vs. HD DVD), there is no single SDV standard. At least with HD video there are only two standards. With SDV there are no fewer than 3 main standards and at least one minor one, and there is absolutely nothing whatsoever preventing any CATV operator from deploying their own brand of SDV. Untill the FCC gets off their backsides, there won't be any single SDV standard.

    So use Galleon or pyTiVo, or if you really must TiVo Desktop to provide these on your Tivo. It's available right now, today. Just this evening I watched Silverado streamed off my 4 + 1 TB RAID 5 array and then spent about 90 minutes listening to music off the same array, right from my Tivo. The RAID array is mounted on a Debian Etch Linux system running Galleon as a service.
  13. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not nearly as common as conflicts when there is only 1 tuner. Adding a 3rd tuner will significantly increase the cost of the TiVo to the point where a second 2 Tuner TiVo is nearly as cheap as a single TiVo, and since most of us have at least 2 TVs...

    I have 4 TiVos, by the way, but only 3 are dual tuner models.
  14. lrhorer

    lrhorer Active Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    My main wishes would be 1000M Ethernet, a dual core CPU or else dual CPUs, either a clone of TiVoWeb Plus or a licensing / support deal for TiVoWeb Plus, and an X11 like interface so one may control any TiVo from any other TiVo. Something like the Hive Mind of Replay TV would be great, but Cable Labs would have a fit if TiVo implemented most of the features of the Hive Mind.
  15. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    Here's what I would like to see:

    1. Bidirectional OpenCable receiver

      This would provide SDV and VOD support using OCAP.

    2. Faster CPU

      TiVo should incorporate a Broadcom BCM7400B or a cable version of the newly announced BCM7335, which Broadcom has said is forthcoming. The Broadcom BCM7400B runs at 350MHz with a claimed 1000 DMIPS while the newly announced BCM7335 runs at 450MHz with a claimed 950 DMIPS. By comparison, the BCM7401 CPU in the TivoHD runs at 300MHz with a claimed 450 DMIPS.

      These solutions also feature DDR2 memory controllers (more memory bandwidth) and improved SATA controllers.

      DirecTV and Dish Network are both expected to use the BCM7335 in their next-generation DVRs.

    3. 500Gb hard drive

      The Dish Network ViP722 features a 500Gb drive, as does DirecTV's HR21 Pro. DirecTV's next-generation HR22 is also expected to feature a 500Gb standard. That should be the minimum capacity on any next-generation TiVo.

    4. Functional MPEG-4 AVC

      Although this is supported by the TivoHD and Series3 hardware, it is not yet supported by the TiVo software.

    5. Dolby Digital Plus

      Dolby Digital Plus supports discrete 7.1 sound and provides higher-quality 5.1 sound at 384Kbps and below. Expect cable companies to use this for high-definition MPEG-4 VOD within three years.

    6. Robust tuners with 1GHz

      Several cable companies, including Cox, are upgrading their systems to support 1GHz and intend to use QAM channels >135 in 2009. All new Motorola and SA STBS and DVRs are announced to have 1GHz support. This is obviously a requirement for any next-generation TiVo product.

    7. MoCA

      MoCA provides 100+Mbps usable throughput over the existing coax in a customer's home, eliminating the need to use wireless adapters and ethernet connections.

      MoCA is quickly becoming a must-have feature for STBs and DVRs to provide reliable, high-definition streaming from one box to another. Motorola added support for MoCA to all of its next-generation STBs and it appears that Scientific Atlanta will soon follow suit.

      For Internet connectivity, TiVo could offer a small MoCA adapter / bridge that users would connect to a LAN port on their router (ex: Motorola NIM100). Alternatively, customers could use the standard 100Mbps ethernet port or the existing Tivo USB wireless adapter for Internet and PC connectivity.

    8. Streamed MRV

      Implement buffered, streamed MRV between Series4 TiVos to allow remote viewing of copy-protected recordings. MoCA would ensure a reliable, high performance connection between Series4 DVRs.

      The "old" method of MRV could still be supported for backward compatibility with Series3 and TivoHD DVRs.

    9. Adopt Comcast TiVo guide with inline video window

      I want in-line video for the guide, not all menus. If a video window is added to the menus, I want the option to disable it for liveTV on recordings in progress. Just display a black window that says "This program is currently recording. Select it from Now Playing."

      For wider appeal, TiVo must have a better guide. Dish Network, DirecTV, Verizon FiOS, and Comcast (with TiVo) are putting a lot of effort into improving the look of their guide. To appeal to customers with those DVRs, TiVo must have a guide with an equal or better aesthetic.

      TiVo should leverage its work on the Comcast software, if contractually permitted.

      Click image for more Comcast Tivo screens taken by Steve Garfield.

      Customers upgrading to a TiVo Series4 from a Motorola DVR with the Comcast TiVo software will expect to have a comparable or better guide. The failure to meet that standard will result in returns.

    10. Adopt 16:9 program guide, keep 4:3 menus but use higher-resolution

      The TiVo Series3 uses a 4:3 guide. For its menus, the Series3 stretches a 4:3 SD UI across a 16:9 HD background image.

      The Dish Network HDTV DVRs already have a 16:9 program guide with more program information and DirecTV plans to add that feature in 2008. Guides in standard 4:3 will soon become passe.


      TiVo should create a separate 16:9 version of the guide to provide more guide information on the screen. For the menus, TiVo should stick to the center 4:3 portion of the screen for backward compatibility with older TVs, but it should use high-resolution graphics and text in that 4:3 portion. There is no reason for a modern HDTV DVR to use 100x35 resolution PNGs for its menu graphics, as the TiVo Series3 does today.

    11. ViXS XCode 3122/3111 (or a variant)

      To start, this would provide downconversion of copy-protected HD channels for TiVoToGo. If streaming cannot be implemented for MRV, then it would also downconvert copy-protected HD transfers to 960x540 for MRV, as required by the CableLabs DFAST licensing agreement.

      In the future, TiVo could implement remote viewing via the web / network in H.264 SD.

    12. Streaming support for new TiVo extender

      SageTV recently began shipping their SageTV HD extender. Several third parties have announced HD extenders for Vista Media Center. These devices do not have tuners or a hard drive; they provide the full DVR interface, but all content is streamed from the server.

      TiVo should build a similar "remote viewing" product for the TiVo. It should be as small / unobtrusive as possible. This box could be built on a Sigma Designs SMP863x, with a MoCA IC to provide a network connectivity over coax without the need for wireless or ethernet cable.

      This product would not carry a monthly fee, but it would be sold at a profit, somewhere between $149 and $249.

    13. Playback from NAS with DLNA compliance

      DLNA compliance would allow the TiVo to support music and video playback from network-attached storage (NAS) devices. At CES 2008, Dish Network announced that this capability was coming to their HDTV DVRs.

    14. All black exterior

      The top selling displays and receivers at retail are all 100% black. Black versions of receivers now outsell silver versions at a ratio of more than 4:1 at retail.

      The latest Dish Network, DirecTV, and Motorola DVRs are all 100% black.
  16. Lenarro

    Lenarro USSB Forever!

    Mar 4, 2005
    Hudson, FL
    Umm, choice of colors? I got nothing. :)
  17. drcos

    drcos HD where available

    Jul 20, 2001
    Venice FL
    Actually some of the SA boxes had that, depending on your SARA version :)

    I'd like to be able to rename recordings (and maybe edit them?) - but I can sort of do this with TTG-TTCB and VideoReDo.

    And 3 tuners would help.
    And that 'change the channel on the OTHER TUNER' message needs to have another option, to 'change the channel on THIS TUNER'

    Since we're wishing :D
  18. HDTiVo

    HDTiVo Not so Senior Member

    Nov 27, 2002
    I was looking at their site yesterday and can't find any links to details on the 3000 Series. That 3290 sounds interesting.

    The Broadcom 7043 also looks interesting.

    This ought to be a slam dunk.

    As a general principle, TiVo needs to start working with the "standards" actually being used by content providers of significance instead of being isolated by its technical limitations.
  19. TexasGrillChef

    TexasGrillChef New Member

    Sep 15, 2006

    That requires the use of a COMPUTER... I want to BYPASS the use of any computer and go straight to the NAS. Computers fail, Need rebooting, Crash, etc... NAS's are VERY STABLE and for the most part hardly if ever crash, or need rebooting.

    TiVo Desktop running on a computer will make use of a NAS. However, It requires me to have a "DEDICATED" computer to do NOTHING but run TiVo Desktop (Or Galleon or PyTiiVO). If I don't dedicate to doing just that, then I have issues with it crashing, rebooting in the middle of a transfer or whatever. Right now I am using a dedicated computer to access my NAS and "serve" to my TiVo. If I do anything on the computer it can't handle the strain of the "excess" use and will crash. It is an older computer. (2ghz Celeron, 2gb memory) but I don't want to spend more then $100 on a dedicated comptuer.

    I would like the TiVo S4 to DIRECTLY access the NAS, Not through the use of another computer.

  20. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    Texas Grill,

    I have been trying to respond to your post with my experiences, but I am having trouble making it sound helpful - which is my intent.

    I have NAS that it is connected to our 4 year old, all purpose family computer and I have not experienced any performance issues and I tend to be a power user on both. This is not a dedicated computer, it is the family work horse.

    I understand the desire not to have the extra layer, but I would expect maybe the problem is less the architecture and more the $100 computer...

    Series 3 - Theater, HD - Family Room, Series 2 – Bedroom

Share This Page