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Tivo S3 upgraded to 1TB via external RAID

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by lightrunner, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. Oct 16, 2006 #21 of 102
    classicX

    classicX Don't scream.

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    Miles away...
    I'm sure the wife LOVED seeing THAT monstrosity. (I assume there is a wife, since the boots were right next to the TV stand.)
     
  2. Oct 16, 2006 #22 of 102
    lightrunner

    lightrunner New Member

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    This is one I am still trying to decide on. But I think your solution is the best option with out having to make drastic cuts into the box.
     
  3. Oct 16, 2006 #23 of 102
    lightrunner

    lightrunner New Member

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    Yes there is a wife and yes she was not happy with the RAID box cluttering the bed room but when I told her it was either the bed room or the living room she reluctantly decided on the bed room. It also helped that she got a new pair of shoes out of it. She's one hell of a negotiator.
     
  4. Oct 16, 2006 #24 of 102
    mindstorm

    mindstorm New Member

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    Excellent news to hear (read)

    Not complaining, it's just that I've experienced situations (non Tivo related with some writes being GBs in size) where raid 5 was just too slow for write performance in my line of work ( went with raid10 in the case above). Controllers, the drives all play a part in the overall performance and I just wanted to confirm that raid 5 in your setup could handle the S3 workload and it looks like it can.
     
  5. Oct 16, 2006 #25 of 102
    ashu

    ashu User title defunct

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    MD
    Kudos, a job well done!
    I look forward to seeing how you seal it all off and obtain a higher WAF :)
    And also to (hopefully) a hack, someday, to extend the 1TB limit!

    It's another issue I'm still lookin forward to actually owning an S3, but that is inevitable ...

    I'm especially glad that you folks have confirmed the SATA/eSATA equivalency with single drives ... I'm thinking I'll hold off on upgrading until an acceptable 1TB drive is available for the cheap external enclosure I bought ... but if I decide to go RAID, I have 3 excellent threads tor efer to, now :)

    Oh, and for a lower price, consider the Costco-available 2TB (1.5 in RAID 5, dunno if you can force a lower size ... pull out a couple of disks?) I mentioned in the other thread

    And for a hole, instead of the grate on the bottom, why not push out one of the lollipop-shaped tab-like things in the back instead? Heck, jury rig a nice eSATA connected (the kind you get free with eSATA enclosures for the back of regular cases) with it? Although that'll increase the number of in-path cable connections!
     
  6. Oct 16, 2006 #26 of 102
    lightrunner

    lightrunner New Member

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    Mindstorm,
    Thanks for the note. I wasn't referring to you complaining in fact I thought you asked a legitimate question.
    I just see random posts where certain members hymmm and haahh about RAID 5 or other disk technologies. Sometimes it seems that they just want to hear themselves talk or they want to show off their knowledge. You know those type of folks. In fact I have a few network and systems engineers who do that all the time. They are the toughest to manage.
    We have successfully used RAID 5 in 100 and less user environments on Exchange 5.5 and 2000 (now 2003) and SQL based Order Management Systems for Financial Traders. Granted there were only 10 traders actively hitting the OMS platform but these setups ran for about 4 years before we finally moved to RAID 10 however I made that decision once our user and trader base grew by double . Granted we were using SCSI as well as Controllers with a large Cache not to mention the processing power and large memory. I have even successfully used RAID 5 in a Terminal Server environement.
    Of course there were times that I attributed certain latency to RAID 5 performance but it wasn't enough at the time to make such a significant financial investment to implement RAID 10 on a 105 GB Exchange Store at the time (using Email Extender now with short cutting wich shrunk our store to little over half the size) and 40 GB SQL OMS DB. Although we use RAID 10 and a SAN environtment for our heavy processes we still have RAID 5 in our environment.
    Now I have seen where a large file moves (10GB) from Direct attached storage with dedicated controller to drives on an onboard controller degraded the performance significantly but we are talking about, as you mentioned, GB. I dont think the HDTV going over the coax from your cable provider is a GB stream in addition to the 'maybe' overhead processing the tivo has for the decoding / encoding which might slow the write a bit more.
     
  7. Oct 16, 2006 #27 of 102
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    Slower...
    I'm having a hard time visualizing what lollipop-shaped tab-like thing you are talking about? Any pictures? Megazone's site seems to be down today. :(

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315795
     
  8. Oct 16, 2006 #28 of 102
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    To expand a little further, there is a limit on partition size too. I'm not sure if this is an artifact of mfstools or an inherent MFS limitation, but with -r 2, the partitions can't be larger than 256GiB (274GB), with -r 3 : 512GiB (549GB), with -r 4 1024 GiB (1099GB) .

    With a single disk, you can have three partition pairs, but two pairs come from the original tivo disk and only one pair is added by mfsadd. So if you start with a stock 250GB S3 image and expand it, you'll be limited to 250GB +1099GB = 1349 GB. To get more than this, you'd either need to partition the raid into two volumes and add them as separate disks (not sure if the S3 can handle two disks) or find a way to strip off or expand one of the partition pairs in the original stock image so you can add another larger pair. The partition coalesce hack would be one way to do this.

    The hard limit on MFS size is 2TiB. I know 2x750GB has been done on the S2 units and the only issue is the display problem previously mentioned.
     
  9. Oct 16, 2006 #29 of 102
    lightrunner

    lightrunner New Member

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    JamieP, thanks for the note. Its interesting that you mentioned that unfortunately during the testing I did create two 1TB partitions on the SANS to see if the S3 would see each partition as a seperate drive to do just what you are talking about but this didnt work. My feeling on this is that it was more of the SANS issue on the controller backplane. However now I am looking into port multiplier enclosers mentioned here. http://www.sata-io.org/portmultiplier.asp
    This basically does exactly what it says. It allows a single SATA port to attach to multiple SATA devices via a port multiplier that would be built into an enclosure of some sort. I will keep you posted of what I find.
     
  10. Oct 16, 2006 #30 of 102
    lightrunner

    lightrunner New Member

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  11. Oct 16, 2006 #31 of 102
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Wouldn't any port multipler solution require port multipler support on the tivo side? Note this fine print in the link you posted:
    Do we know the S3 host controller/driver has that support?
     
  12. Oct 16, 2006 #32 of 102
    lightrunner

    lightrunner New Member

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    Good catch. Thats a very good question. I guess it wont hurt to find out. Ehhh... the box looks somewhat similar to the SANS box so the wife wont notice its a new box and besides she got new shoes so I can get another box....
     
  13. Oct 16, 2006 #33 of 102
    lightrunner

    lightrunner New Member

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    I will also try to get a better look at the main board to see if I can find the SATA controller chipset. If its something like silicon image I can probably find information on their website for mulitplier support
     
  14. Oct 16, 2006 #34 of 102
    Thom

    Thom Active Member

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    Whittier,...
    Jamie -

    I recently tried upgrading a series 1 DSR6000 and a series 2 HDVR2 to dual 750 GB drives, and I could not get MFSTool to successfully expand MFS beyond 1048xxxMiB (as reported by MFSTool). So I wound up using a 750 GB A drive and a 400 GB B drive, with some unused space on the B drive.

    Do you know what technique was used to fully utilize the dual 750 GB drives, or can you point me to a post about it?

    - Thom

     
  15. Oct 16, 2006 #35 of 102
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    I believe the SATA controller is integrated into the broadcom bcm7038.

    It's a dual channel controller, and in the boot logs I've seen, it seems to look like a legacy PATA controller to the kernel. It shows two ide channels (ide1 and ide2) with two disks per channel (hd[a-d].) That may just be the way tivo wrote the drivers for it.
     
  16. Oct 16, 2006 #36 of 102
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    I don't have any specific information. I just know that the upgrade vendors are selling dual 750GB drive systems. I thought people here had posted success stories too.
     
  17. Oct 16, 2006 #37 of 102
    ashu

    ashu User title defunct

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    MD

    You shoulda checked in the image you mentioned/attached earlier :)

    Of course, the existing openings are too sharp/awkward - but nothing a little drilling/dremmeling wouldn't smoothen out enough to add one SATA->eSATA connector cable originating on the onboard SATA port.
     
  18. Oct 16, 2006 #38 of 102
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    Slower...
  19. Oct 16, 2006 #39 of 102
    ashu

    ashu User title defunct

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    MD
  20. Oct 16, 2006 #40 of 102
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

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    May 21, 2004
    Slower...
    Working now. Yes, now I see the lollipops. :)
     

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