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TiVo prepping nex generation DVRs

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by bradleys, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Aug 13, 2013 #741 of 1049
    Aero 1

    Aero 1 Member

    Aug 8, 2007
    If you read the whole case, you will see that the court went through their algorithms and technology to see if it infringed on redistribution rights. the court said, since CV doesn't duplicate or "manage" the recordings and only perform 1 to 1 copies of the requested program and have multiple copies of said program, they are not redistributing. they are simply moving the box under your tv to their colo.

    then they would copy exactly what CV is doing and that would mean that their new hardware wouldnt need any physical tuners in the box. A tunerless Tivo.

    if this cloud rumor is true, then they would go the Boxee TV route. record and upload your recordings.
  2. Aug 13, 2013 #742 of 1049

    BobCamp1 Well-Known Member

    May 15, 2002
    More like VOD. I realize that most Tivo users aren't aware of this, but if you use the cable provider's box, you can get a stream of your favorite shows and movies anytime you want! :D

    Now, some cable providers don't have a large VOD selection, so not every program is there for viewing. Sports events certainly aren't (but sometimes they're on ESPN3). And some people have a slow Internet connection so they can't take advantage of it. But it's amazing how many of my shows are on VOD (at least with FIOS, anyway). And you can FF through the commercials on most of them, and some have even edited out most of the commercials.

    I don't bother to record certain series anymore, as I know they'll be available on VOD within 48 hours of the original air date and I know I won't get around to watching them until then anyway. I've found my family only needs around 300 GB of hard drive space on the DVR.
  3. Aug 13, 2013 #743 of 1049

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    I like this idea... Today the iPad app allows you to move a copy to the iPad. Another option to move the stream into the cloud would be pretty cool. You could access it from your mobile device or laptop using the "New" TiVo desktop.

    If I can use my own personal cloud, all the better - but I doubt it will be allowed.
  4. Aug 13, 2013 #744 of 1049

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    Bt many of the VOD shows have borked audio. At least with FiOS and Comcast. Stereo audio instead of 5.1
  5. Aug 13, 2013 #745 of 1049

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    I have VOD on my TiVo Comcast system, when you ask for a program the cable card goes to a channel to get the program you want, if you have a two tuner TiVo and are recording on both tuners you can't get VOD without stopping the record on one station, On HBO type VOD programs you can fast forward if needed but I can't fast forward on any Fox or ABC network program so I would be forces to watch the ads, when the Zimmerman verdict came down it was before end of some ABC program I had recorded, I had to start the VOD for that program and do something else for 50 minutes until the part I missed came on, I was pi*** about that inconvenience of VOD. Same thing happened on the Obama announcement of Osama bin laden death at 10:45pm, I could have waited until 11pm to know about his death.
  6. Aug 13, 2013 #746 of 1049

    davezatz Funkadelic

    Apr 18, 2002
    The feature that was presented to me was personal media. Don't think we're talking network DVR here...
  7. Aug 13, 2013 #747 of 1049

    innocentfreak Active Member

    Aug 25, 2001
    Was there any mention of additional codec support though?
  8. Aug 13, 2013 #748 of 1049

    jadziedzic Member

    Apr 20, 2009
    The CableCARD has nothing to do with VOD tuning. The request for a VOD program is routed from the TiVo to Comcast's head-end over the TiVo's Internet connection, and in reply the TiVo is told which channel to tune to receive the requested program.
  9. Aug 13, 2013 #749 of 1049

    shortys408 New Member

    Sep 20, 2011
    I hope they improve the on demand menus for comcast. I have trouble navigating it.
  10. Aug 13, 2013 #750 of 1049

    mattack Active Member

    Apr 9, 2001
    Because, them's [sic] the rules. The data is being segregated per user, so those recordings are for that one user.

    If you only keep one copy, then you are CLEARLY (legally) making duplicate copies, breaking copyright laws.
  11. Aug 14, 2013 #751 of 1049

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    The cable card is what encodes and maps the tuner signal, you can't have cable VOD without a cable card on Comcast in CT.
  12. Aug 14, 2013 #752 of 1049

    HerronScott Well-Known Member

    Jan 1, 2002
    Staunton, VA
    I would guess that they probably are using block-level deduplication at the hardware level (ie the SAN this data is being stored on) to reduce disk space utilization. At the logical or file level (application), this is still seen as multiple copies, but duplicate blocks are only stored once.

  13. Aug 14, 2013 #753 of 1049

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2002
    I doubt it since "Cablevision's position was that the system was identical to those that had legally been deployed for years by consumers; it just shifted the location of the hardware into the cloud. "
  14. Aug 14, 2013 #754 of 1049

    KevinG Member

    Sep 3, 2003
    Mt. Laurel, NJ.
    After reading through it, I'm with lpwcomp. As much as it makes complete and absolute sense to those of us who understand that bits are bits, and it doesn't make a damn bit (hah!) of difference if you have 1 copy of them or n copies of them...the legalities make this impossible. In my opinion, the copyright laws just haven't caught up to technology.

    Imagine the $$$ savings in terms of hardware costs, cooling, real-estate (rack space), maintenance, etc. that CableVision could incur by keeping at most 3 copies of any show that someone had requested to be recorded... All without ever delivering said show to anyone that didn't ask for it to be recorded in the first place. Oh well.
  15. Aug 14, 2013 #755 of 1049

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2002
    The written word equivalent would be for Amazon to keep only one copy of any eBook that has been uploaded to anyone's Kindle account.
  16. Aug 14, 2013 #756 of 1049

    socrplyr Active Member

    Jul 19, 2006
    Amazon is probably allowed to keep only one copy and distribute it to anyone who purchases.
    I think many here are getting confused with what is law and what isn't here.
    It is not law that Cablevision must keep one copy for each person who records it. It is law that they must follow copyright laws. Those basically allow the copyright holder to restrict distribution of the material. What happened for Cablevision is they showed that by making their equipment act just like a household DVR (one copy per request), they were able to not be considered to be distributing (or rebroadcasting) the stored program. However, if Cablevision were to get permission from all the copyright holders, they could keep only one copy and send it out when requested (that is basically what VOD is). My point is that the arbitrary nature of this is not directly rooted in law. Courts have found that individuals have a fair use right to record programming (use a DVR). Here for Cablevision, they said that moving the recording to be at Cablevison's premisses is equivalent to using a household DVR. However, there has not been a case that directly took up the ability for Cablevision to keep only one copy. Cablevision felt that they had a reasonable chance of losing that argument, because it looks a lot more like existing VOD. Thus, they went with the surefire win. Going forward, if they copyright holders allowed them explicitly to do so, I am sure they would switch and only save a single requested copy.
  17. Aug 14, 2013 #757 of 1049

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

    May 6, 2002
    I'm not talking about eBooks that you load onto your Kindle or a device with a Kindle app, I am talking about eBooks that have been added to your Amazon Kindle account, including things you acquired elsewhere (like Baen). Even if you buy it ffrom Amazon, they are distributing it, i.e. giving you your own copy, not just providing access to their copy.
  18. Aug 14, 2013 #758 of 1049

    jadziedzic Member

    Apr 20, 2009
    No channel mapping is required for VoD - the server at the head-end returns a QAM channel number (e.g., 76-4), *not* a typical STB channel number.
  19. Aug 14, 2013 #759 of 1049

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    Oct 30, 2003
    The bandwidth consumption would be out of control for little functionality. Even if I had FIOS, I wouldn't want 500GB/mo+ of data being uploaded for some "cloud" DVR functionality. Talk about ridiculous.

    If anything, Sling-like functionality would make sense, as then it's only using bandwidth when it needs to. Or even an on-demand MRV-type solution with near-real-time H.264 re-encoding.
  20. Aug 14, 2013 #760 of 1049

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

    May 14, 2007
    They've already had this discussion over at DBSForum and your theory appears to be the correct one from what I recall of the banter back and forth.

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