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TiVo prepping nex generation DVRs

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by bradleys, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Jul 27, 2013 #441 of 1049
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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    It's a render via the UI and the screen doesn't photograph so well. But it's something to go on until I turn up better imagery.

    [​IMG]

    I haven't written it up yet, but saw a 4 or 6 tuner Moto/Arris DVR in a package the size of like a hard back. I assume more functionality is built into smaller, cooler chipsets these days.
     
  2. Jul 27, 2013 #442 of 1049
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    Is the top as rounded as it appears to be? Or is it an optical illusion/effect? Regardless, I agree with BigJimOutlaw. It's ugly.

    I'd be more concerned with proper cooling of the hard drive.
     
  3. Jul 27, 2013 #443 of 1049
    SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

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    It looks like something from the 90s "Cute" school of industrial design (First gen iMac etc).

    I wonder if they aren't moving to notebook drives.
     
  4. Jul 27, 2013 #444 of 1049
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    Doubtful, since they tend to cost more and aren't designed for 24/7 operation.
     
  5. Jul 27, 2013 #445 of 1049
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    The cost argument is valid. They also have more size limitations.

    Just a FYI: I took a peek to see what the 1TB 2.5" drive in my WDTV Live Hub is. It's too tall to fit in a standard notebook drive bay (twice the height), but is a WD Scorpio Blue 24/7 AV drive. Not a "green" model, but meets the requirements for TiVo use, and has lower power consumption than a 3.5" WD GP/AV drive...

    If the drive manufacturers can make 2.5" drives that meet TiVo's criteria, now, or in the future, I don't see why they wouldn't be ruled out as an option....
     
  6. Jul 27, 2013 #446 of 1049
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Agreed. The Comcast X2 box doesn't have a hard drive "resulting in a form factor three times smaller than conventional boxes, and 50 percent less power consumption."

    I suspect that this small form-factor box will also be the primary box for TiVo's MSO partners which might explain why TiVo has significantly bumped up its inventory purchase obligations in its most recent quarter.
     
  7. Jul 27, 2013 #447 of 1049
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    Cost would be one of them. Aren't 2.5 drives are still more expensive than the 3.5 version? I haven't looked at them recently but they used to be about 25-30% more expensive for the same size.

    Looking at Amazon at least retail though the WD Blue 500GB drives are the same price at 2.5 or 3.5 size so I guess they have come to the same price point.

    And WD makes a 2.5 AVGP drive which is only slightly more expensive than the 3.5 version.

    I will say the render definitely looks more like a cable box. It even has a logo in the bottom right corner.


    EDIT: Just thought of this also. If TiVo opted for a 2.5 drive it would push those who want to upgrade to the XL model. While you might still be able to upgrade the drive, you will be potentially limited on the space so you might be stuck with 2.5 drives. The largest 2.5 drive currently from WD in the AV model is 1TB since most likely due to the platter size. http://www.wdc.com/en/products/internal/av/

    This could mean the end of the 2TB 4XL unless they truly have space for a 3.5 but they opted to use a 2.5 drive. Cooling could potentially be an issue with a larger drive.
     
  8. Jul 28, 2013 #448 of 1049
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    2.5 drives are too expensive, and have half the capacity (2TB for the thick ones that won't fit in a laptop vs. 4TB for desktop drives). There's just no reason to try and cut that much space out of the box. Personally I like the big, stackable boxes, but the trend clearly is smaller and lighter. I guess it's a good thing that they are less energy intensive to manufacture and operate.
     
  9. Jul 28, 2013 #449 of 1049
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    I thought the same thing, but at least from Amazon they cost the same in the 500GB size 3.5 drives.
     
  10. Jul 28, 2013 #450 of 1049
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    The larger capacity drives are still a lot more expensive in 2.5 and nothing larger than 2TB is even available. I really hope they don't move to 2.5 drives. I have absolutely no problem with the current form factor and power requirements.
     
  11. Jul 28, 2013 #451 of 1049
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    The 1TB is a dollar more than the 3.5 version on Amazon and both are WD AvGP drives. The only reason for 2.5 would be the smaller form factor.

    As I said in my post, My thinking is the P6 in the larger form factor uses the 3.5 for at least the XL model.
     
  12. Jul 29, 2013 #452 of 1049
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    If this new 4 tuner unit is going to be the new bottom line option then they need to make it as cheap as possible. If they can't get it down to at least $150 then they are putting themselves in a tough spot. I expect the 4 tuner to be as cheap as possible. If they can save a few bucks by squeezing it into a smaller case and using a wall wart instead of a real power supply, then that's what they'll do. The 6 tuner will likely be more like what we're use to as it will be more of a "premium" option. Although I don't expect it to cost much more, if anything, then the current gen XL4. They're already having trouble moving units at the current price points, if they go much higher they're going to price themselves out of the market.
     
  13. Jul 29, 2013 #453 of 1049
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    If we put aside the cost factor, except that 2.5" drives have come down to near 3.5" pricing, if TiVo were to start using them, that sure would make all the DIY drive upgrading much more difficult, and force us to buy a "Premium" model, if we want a huge (internal) drive capacity.

    Think about it... If TiVo cuts a great pricing deal on 2.5" drives, with a drive manufacturer, and then only uses the 3.5" in the most expensive model, then they could make it no so easy for people to buy the cheapest model, and just drop in a bigger drive...

    I've been wondering how long it would take for TiVo to get more ballsy, and release a product that isn't upgrade friendly. If they make it that way, by design, we're somewhat screwed. I think they likely never expected anybody to come up with a way to expand a Premiere drive. Once it was possible, they couldn't really just deactivate the people who upgraded, as a retroactive measure, without p'ing a lot of paying customers off...

    It's a sad and scary thing to think of, but they COULD do it. It's their product. As Dan203 said, the non-premium models could even have wall-wart power supplies.
     
  14. Jul 29, 2013 #454 of 1049
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    Correct as I said yesterday. They do make 2TB 2.5 drives now though but at a greater cost. They don't make the AVGP model though past 1TB.

    Amazon

    I don't necessarily think TiVo is doing this to cut out upgrades, but more for the smaller form factor. It would also limit them from making a XL model in the 4 tuner model.

    This is all of course assuming it even has a smaller 2.5 drive. It is tough to tell dimensions by a screen shot. From a cost perspective it doesn't make sense to buy 2.5 drives for the 4 tuner and 3.5 drives for the 6 tuner unless they have different storage. I could see 500GB for the 4 tuner and 1TB for the 6 tuner base and then 2TB for the 4XL and 3TB for the 6XL.
     
  15. Jul 29, 2013 #455 of 1049
    wco81

    wco81 Member

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    Tivo's marketshare has to be pretty low, because most people would not spend hundreds up front and then high use fees or lifetime.

    Though their designs are in sore need of more HW performance, you would think they'd look for ways to reduce costs to make the products more competitive.

    Would they get better pricing on the Broadcom processors or perhaps draft on the scale of mobile SOCs, say a 2-year old design with 2 A9 cores?

    Look at the A5 used on the AppleTV, a $99 product, for instance. Then again, I heard that the Tivo software platform relies on Adobe Air, which is related to Flash?

    Mobile platforms don't run Flash well and Adobe has abandoned it for mobile so could that be part of the reason for the cost of the hardware?
     
  16. Jul 29, 2013 #456 of 1049
    tivogurl

    tivogurl New Member

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    Are there any 2.5" drives rated for 24/7 use?
     
  17. Jul 29, 2013 #457 of 1049
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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  18. Jul 29, 2013 #458 of 1049
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I don't see it being any different than the 3.5 inch drives.Those work fine running 24/7/365 even though they aren't AV drives. So I wouldn't think the 2.5 inch drives wouldn't be any different.

    My GF still has two of my OLED S3 boxes, each with the first available 1TB drive. A five platter hitachi drive. They have been running 24/7/365 for around 6.5 years with no issues so far.
     
  19. Jul 29, 2013 #459 of 1049
    tivogurl

    tivogurl New Member

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    Only 5 simultaneous streams (presumably 4 write one read) though. Wouldn't work in our hypothesized 6-tuner Tivo. Unless the 4- and 6-tuner TiVos are going to have different form factors I don't see the point of using 2.5" drives.
     
  20. Jul 29, 2013 #460 of 1049
    bmgoodman

    bmgoodman Member

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    I've worked with desktop and laptop PCs over the last decade, in hundreds to nearly a thousand, and I've had way more 2.5" drives fail with absolutely zero warning as compared to 3.5" drives. (Yes, the absolute number of failures is still small.) I'm including some small form-factor desktops with 2.5" drives and many laptops that never leave the office. Just saying that I frequently see anomalies out of the 3.5" drives in advance of a failure, but almost never with the 2.5" drives. (Yes, it's also anecdotal.)

    Let's just say for a number of reasons I far prefer 3.5" drives, except if portability is key.
     

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