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TiVo prepping nex generation DVRs

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by bradleys, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Jul 10, 2013 #381 of 1049

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Ok understand now, well if that were the case it would suck, my Premiere came with the 14.?? software and while it worked there sure has been allot of improvements since then, same for the Series 3 units.

    But the reality is every connect device I have has had important software updates after I owned the device. My receiver, blu-ray player, NAS units, all the streaming devices (I own 4 - Roku, Western digital, Netgear, & Google TV) and of course all my computers. If manufactures couldn't do software updates after shipping a device either our devices would suck our we would be waiting much longer before stuff is released.
  2. Jul 10, 2013 #382 of 1049

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    My first TiVo purchase was a 2 Tuner Premiere in July 2011, It was a 30 day trial, and I fully expected to cancel service at the end, based mostly on all the negative talk here. But within a week or so I was completely sold on the product, and that was before the HDUI updates, and before MRS. But it was the leaked SW Vers in summer 2011 that briefly enabled MRS that was my deciding factor to purchase and try 2 Premieres.

    I know this was not directed at me, but I am 99.5% satisfied with my Elite/XL4. I have also not experienced any major issues that would make me reconsider my purchase, I would purchase another if i needed and would recommend it to anyone looking, and have. Is it perfect, no. Have I missed 1 or 2 recordings in the last year, yes. but only a couple.

    I have experienced the all blank tuners a few times, maybe 3 to 5x's in the last year, But do not consider it to be an issue for me. I will say I have also experienced it a few times on the 2 Tuner.

    Note, I am also using a SDV Tuning Adapter and have relatively no issues with it's reliability. It also is probably 99.9% reliable.

    And no, I do not do PR work for TiVo.
  3. Jul 10, 2013 #383 of 1049

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    As you say, if you had just bought a Premiere, but were stuck with the original software, It would suck. If you bought any TiVo that came before, and were stuck with the original software, it would suck.

    So, bear with me, and give a little leeway: Is it so hard to make a logical conclusion, that any entirely new TiVo platform, will come with software that... wait for it... SUCKS. Think about how long it has taken every platform to reach a software revision level that doesn't completely suck.

    Aaronwt is always upgrading. I think, if he could, he'd be the first customer to actually own every TiVo product they bring to market, even though the software that comes on it, will likely, logically, suck. Again, no offense intended, to aaronwt.

    The key is getting out updates with bug-fixes, hardware issue workarounds, and new/improved features, as quickly as possible. Anything that distracts the company from doing that, extends the "suckage" factor.

    I've lost count of how many updates there have been. Some should have never made it past initial testing, without being sent back to the drawing board. Far too many add things that nobody I know of even wanted, and don't fix anything. Some break things that were working just fine, until they went and added something extra.

    I do understand the "reality" you speak of. I'm also an owner of several WD TV, RoKu, and other "smart" or "bundled to the teeth" products, which routinely receive updates. These products utterly blow TiVo out-of-the-water, when it comes to streaming internet movies, streaming internet TV, games, and so many other things. Why not just leave those functions to those products, which so many already have, anyway?

    A few people have directly, or indirectly, said that "we have to buy whatever new things TiVo releases, to insure survival of TiVo". I find that mentality disturbing. If that is truly the case, maybe going-out-of-business could be the BEST thing that could happen for TiVo and its user base. Somebody would buy the rights, and hopefully knock off this unofficial "why innovate, when we can litigate" stance that TiVo took on.

    There is no way that we would wind up without Guide Data. Somebody would step-up, and take that over. As far as updates, maybe they wouldn't be free anymore, but maybe, just maybe, they'd be worth a small fee. I'd pay for QUALITY, properly-tested updates.

    I'm going to disclose that I have never owned stock in TiVo. I feel that those who are going to rain fire and brimstone over this post, are likely going to be stockholders. So, I feel that if anybody wants to come-at-me over the death of TiVo possibly being the best thing that could happen to TiVo, and for TiVo users, disclose if they have a financial stake in the company.
  4. Jul 10, 2013 #384 of 1049

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I have no issues with you, at all. You're one of my favorite contributors to these forums.

    I'd have to say, that by the time you were sold on the Premiere 2-Tuner models, it was around the same time I was finally feeling that the product had potential, as opposed to suffering buyer's remorse. That was around the time that some of the best updates were rolling. Anything before that time, wasn't making me feel any better about buying the product.

    Thanks for the input. I've never seen you post anything that wasn't credible, or couldn't be backed-up by others, or some research.

    So far, my Tuning Adapters aren't doing anything, except IMPROVING the quality and stability of my signal. I still have a couple weeks before they flip the switch and they are mandatory.

    FWIW: I used the in-line/pass-through method. I have no idea why Cox would instruct to use a splitter before the TA. So far, the only downside to not doing that is a complete loss of signal to the TiVos, if the power button accidentally gets pressed (it's right on the front), or the power to the TAs is otherwise interrupted. I also left out the MoCa POE filters, since I don't use MoCa. A word of advice to those who have their TiVos on battery-backup: Don't forget the TAs.
  5. Jul 10, 2013 #385 of 1049

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    The reason the signal is lost when the Cisco TA is powered down is because it is not a true RF pass-thru, it is a signal amp of 3dB. With the power off/cut the amplifier is off.

    See my explanation here as to why Cox shows the use of the splitter and POE filter.
  6. Jul 10, 2013 #386 of 1049

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    What I do not understand is why you get so angry / frustrated at people who are satisfied with their TiVo's.

    I disagree with something you said several posts ago - and I am too lazy to go find it now. But you said something to the effect that most people are dissatisfied with their TiVo's... But I just do not think that is reality.

    Is TiVo best in class OTT? Nope... I do not use a lot of OTT - my kids like Netflix and that seems to work fine for them. But as a DVR, most people that purchase them love them.

    If I were as angry at a company as you are, I would have left years ago. The cable company DVR's are getting a lot more competitive - they are not cheap, but they seem to work better then they did in the past.

    Have you ever considered switching to another product? Life to too short to allow something as inconsequential as a DVR to bring so much stress in your life.
  7. Jul 10, 2013 #387 of 1049

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I understand what you are saying. I think you may have misread something I posted. Maybe I contradicted myself. I'm not perfect.

    I tried the other possibilities for my area/market. Centurylink is just DSL, doing cable, poorly, and has DSL speed. That leaves Cox, which is who has been the monopoly, and for the most part, still is. The only thing I could change would be to use their equipment. It sucks. It can't be expanded. Even a few loose-lipped Cox techs disclosed that their new whole-home DVR solution is a defective product. So, the only choices left are:

    A: Defective whole home product from Cox.

    B: Antique, always breaking down, old DVR boxes from Cox.

    C: Centurylink, when they get around to running DSL-capable copper in my neighborhood, and stone-age internet.

    D: Over-The-Air only.

    I'll admit I'm angry over the lack of *viable* choices. I'll admit, as disappointed as I am in TiVo, it's still better than the alternatives (in my market).

    But, should that make me happy, when it comes to TiVo, when I know, with 100% certainty, it could be a MUCH better product than it is? I'm thankful for TiVo being an option. I'm just very unhappy with the way they conduct themselves, like:

    A: Mindset of "why innovate, when we can litigate", to make money.

    B: Releasing defective/incomplete products.

    C: Updates that can take a TiVo which has been not frustrating me at all, and make me want to take it outside and shoot it.

    I'm also beginning to feel like somebody who dares to speak their mind, when their iPhone malfunctions, in an Apple fanboy forum, where everybody wants to tell you to "just leave", just because you aren't happy. There's a reason I don't buy Apple products. The TiVo "Community" is becoming more and more like the "Apple can do no wrong, and produces perfect products community", where if your product spontaneously combusts, everybody tells you it was the user, not the product. That's a community I want no part of. I haven't given up hope, here, yet. There are still enough real people here, who haven't become the equivalent of iPeople or iRobots (sweeping away anything but praise for the product).

    If I ever do leave these forums, it will be because I -did- abandon TiVo. Otherwise, I'm here to stay.

    One thing that could really improve my attitude towards TiVo: 100% DLNA implementation. TiVo is the only entertainment device throughout the whole house that isn't able to use DLNA. Think of all the potential possibilities, one addition could create.
  8. Jul 10, 2013 #388 of 1049

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    I don't think TiVo is going to implement a DNLA compliant architecture. I suspect it is a business decision to keep the architecture proprietary. That doesn't mean to say there may not be some concerns about DRM, but my personal opinion is that DNLA open isn't a direction TiVo "wants" to go in.

    I purchased the OLED S3 as soon as it was available on the market. It was really a ground breaking design eliminating the need for a cable box and allowing access to High Definition programming through the TiVo.

    It is a great box, but it predated other available technologies such as the Multi-Stream cable card. TiVo's (and My) desire to be cutting edge came with some risks - and the OLED S3 cannot handle a single multi-stream card. OK - that is fine.

    The Premier came out and I agree the UI was incomplete and it was definitely slower then it should have been. But the updates have improved it quite a bit - I have no nagging problems with my Premier (in the way I use it). As I said, out of three TiVo's it is my primary box.

    My biggest complaint about TiVo was a two year development malaise while they focused on litigation. I am sure money was very tight, but it almost killed them.

    I disagree that TiVo used litigation as a revenue strategy. The rate that the competitors were stealing TiVo's intelectual property forced them to make litigation a priority. Without the courts, TiVo would have been gone years ago.

    With all that said:

    TiVo has really ramped up the tempo on development and innovation over the last 18 months. It is fun to watch and predict what is coming next.

    My friendly advice to you - for what it is worth... Try not to get drug down into the past. Look at what has been delivered and what is on the horizon. It is pretty good stuff.

    Will it all be perfect on release day? Nope! :D
  9. Jul 10, 2013 #389 of 1049

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

    May 30, 2008
    Just throwing my two bits in here, but I think that DLNA is massively overrated and I don't really understand why TiVo owners keep asking for it. The formats that it supports are severely limited, and the software that I've seen so far blows technicolor chunks.

    I tried to the extent of my patience but lame implementations, lame installers, and CPU utilizations that were ridiculous without even USING the software made me run away screaming in horror.

    Your mileage may vary and I'm obviously not adverse to giving away months of work for free, but IMHO it's crap at best. Why castigate TiVo for not supporting it?
  10. Jul 10, 2013 #390 of 1049

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    i am not having that issue with my Elites. But I am also on FiOS and I think the people on FiOS have had fewer problems. One box I have is a launch Elite and my second Elite was purchased five or six months later.(right before they changed the name).

    In my main setup I have a Mini and an Elite. And I am mainly using the Mini to watch content. So i don't use the Elite in that room to watch content very much any more. But whenever i do i have not seen any blank channels and the recordings have not been having any issues.

    When the S5 comes out my plan is to put that in my main setup and move that Mini to my secondary setup which also has an Elite right now.

    i would run the S5 in tandem with my Elites for a couple of weeks and then sell off oen Elite and then a couple of weeks later sell off the seocnd Elite. That way if i do have any major issues with the S5, I won't be hosed. Especially since it will probably be released during the fall Tv season. So i might even wait until all the re-runs to start in December before i think about selling my Elites.

    of course anything could happen and the S5 might not even show up this year.
  11. Jul 10, 2013 #391 of 1049

    Bigg Cord Cutter

    Oct 30, 2003
    There's going to be a ton of cheap TiVos on eBay when the new ones come out...
  12. Jul 10, 2013 #392 of 1049

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    Oct 31, 2007
    Yeah, I was chatting with my wife today that we should sell the OLED soon before the price drops.
  13. Jul 10, 2013 #393 of 1049

    cncb New Member

    Jul 4, 2013
    Do they usually announce details a while before release or not until they are available for purchase? I would like to know for sure (preferably soon) if there is going to be a new 4-tuner box for OTA that is compatible with Mini.
  14. Jul 10, 2013 #394 of 1049

    astrohip Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Jan 6, 2003
    Houston &...
    I'm glad that you ain't the king, because under your scenarios, we'd never get new products.

    I love my TiVos. Are they perfect? Heck no. But they're the best DVR on the market, and they do a phenomenal job for me. 99.999% uptime, haven't missed 2-3 recordings in 2-3 years. I can't wait for the S5s to hit the market. I was ready to pull the trigger on another Elite when this thread started, so now I'll wait for the next gen.

    Best put on your tin foil hat, because there are lots of folks like him. Like me. We're unabashed TiVo fans.

    One could spend all their effort focusing on what's wrong, like you do. Or one could enjoy the best DVR on the market. Like I do. I'm not ignorant of its faults and shortcomings, I just don't let it blind me to the good.

    Both paths exist, which will you take?
  15. Jul 10, 2013 #395 of 1049

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

    Dec 1, 2000
    Silicon Valley
    I was getting ready for another Elite as well. Have they said when these new ones will be available? They sound awesome. 6 tuners would be ideal in our scenario. :up:
  16. Jul 10, 2013 #396 of 1049

    innocentfreak Active Member

    Aug 25, 2001
    They usually announce a month or so before availability.

    I am I'll guessing an October release after being on display for CEDIA in late September..
  17. Jul 10, 2013 #397 of 1049

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    It took some time for the TiVo-HD (w/Lifetime) to drop from about $500 to about $339 now from the time the Series 4 came out, people on this forum may be well informed but the total population, not so much, and for a new TiVo customer the Lifetime cost is $500 + tax in many states, in March I got $545 each (on E-Bay) for two Series 4 two tuner TiVos with 1Tb drives in them as I upgraded to the TP-4, not too bad a deal.
  18. Jul 10, 2013 #398 of 1049

    sbiller Active Member

    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    I'm guessing we might see an announcement around the time of TiVo's Q2 earnings on August 28th.

    I suppose we could see some new software roll-out prior to the launch of the new hardware in late September or early October.
  19. Jul 10, 2013 #399 of 1049

    innocentfreak Active Member

    Aug 25, 2001
    I would agree that we will finally hear it mentioned on the call just announcing the upcoming hardware release. I doubt we will get too much info. It only makes sense to show at CEDIA and release a week or two later.
  20. Jul 11, 2013 #400 of 1049

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    I've only seen the 'problem tuning channels' issue once on mine, and none since the Fall update last year.

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