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TiVo prepping nex generation DVRs

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by bradleys, Jun 17, 2013.

  1. Jul 9, 2013 #341 of 1049
    Joe3

    Joe3 Member

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    Dec 12, 2006
    waiting on the S5!?

    Those of us who bought the S3 at the time, bought on the quality of a premium product and paid for it. The complaints on the S3 were nothing like the out cry and out rage garnered from later cheap line of DVR's.

    There was an out cry that it was too expensive! So Tivo started making a cheap DVR's to mollify that crowd that they were convinced would be a bigger market. They failed. Cheap is Cheap and they should have never gotten away from their premium line by playing a marketing word play with the product known as "Premiere".

    If they don't bring back a premium quality line with the S5 and they keep with cheap junk that they have been peddling or if they don't offer a true choice (not just in hard drive) but in quality on the whole DVR, forget about them.

    Whose having the last laugh now? The original S3 owners that paid the high-price for a premium DVR that had a quarter of the problems and has had their investment paid back to them (with Lifetime) again and again.
     
  2. Jul 9, 2013 #342 of 1049
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,162
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    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    I'll take any of my S4 boxes over the three OLED s3 boxes and five TiVo HD boxes I've owned. The S4 has been better in almost every way.
     
  3. Jul 9, 2013 #343 of 1049
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
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    I purchased my OLED S3 christmas 2006, added an HD model a year later and picked up a Premier in mid 2010... (OLED was $800 + lifetime service)

    I have been pretty happy with all my units - I keep the Premier in the Family Room and it gets the majority of use, I keep the HD in the Media room and it is gets second highest use. The OLED S3? Sitting in my bedroom and barely gets used at all.

    The Premier has always had faster transistions then my S3 units even with the HDUI. The difference is so significant now that I cannot stand going back to one of the older ones.
     
  4. Jul 9, 2013 #344 of 1049
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,710
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    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Have you actually compared the various Series 3 & Premiere DVRs directly?

    I have, and currently have an Original Series 3, TiVo HD, & Premiere all sitting in the same cabinet attached to the same TV. There is only one place where the Premiere isn't equal or superior to the original Series 3 & TiVo HD and that is in dealing with certain OTA multi-path reception issues. Of course if you are using your DVR for OTA and happen to have those type issues that is a big deal, (like I am & do) but otherwise not so much.

    Did/does the Premiere have issues with the HDUI - certainly and at the begining the HDUI was almost not usable, but that was/is a software issue not a hardware issue. We have always been able to use the SDUI and when using the SDUI the Premiere has always been very fast and pretty much problem free (at least for me).

    At this point in time I think all three of my HD TiVo's are excellent DVRs, but if I use the SDUI in the Premiere it clearly has superior performance compared to the 2 Series 3 units and if I use the HDUI is has performance on par with the Series 3 units with superior functionality. Either way the Premiere is an upgrade to my Series 3 units.
     
  5. Jul 9, 2013 #345 of 1049
    trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

    2,767
    3
    Apr 2, 2005
    Premiere was irritating for these reasons.

    Laggy UI. It really hurts your experience when much of your interaction with the device is through this UI.

    Some menus HD. Some still SD. I could live with this. But it always gave the impression of a half-finished product.

    Terrible 3rd party apps. Netflix was atrocious when I had a Premiere a few years back. Crashed all the time. The other apps as I recall were equally bad.

    Less than desirable streaming of your own media options from your computer.

    lack of improvement. Ok the UI improved some, for example, it showed a description of a show in the sidebar without having to click all the way through. But other things bugged like the talked about back to back recording of shows on the same channel especially when it came to recording football games on Sundays. I can't believe they hadn't dealt with that yet. Now that I think about (it) I probably could have just scheduled it to record x and y channels for 7 hours each every week from 12-7 CST right? And just dealt with the extra 3-6 hours of recording. Am I correct here? I could have just done that and set it up weekly? I haven't had a Premiere in a few years so maybe it didn't work that way. But if it does work that way what a Doh!!? moment for me. Anyway I was expecting some more improvement with the whole recording shows thing. WMC has some decent improvements over what Tivo does.

    It was fairly expensive and still only had 2 tuners and little storage space when it first came out.

    No On-Demand which only helped make your crappy cable dvr more attractive.

    You had to buy another $800+ Premiere in order to watch shows on a 2nd tv.

    Those were my beefs with the Premiere when it came out. I have no first-hand knowledge of any improvements since. I hope the Series 5 pulls a rabbit out of a hat.
     
  6. Jul 9, 2013 #346 of 1049
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
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    Oct 31, 2007
    Trip1ex

    I think your critiques are fair... Some of that has improved over time and others are inherent to both the S3 and the S4 model lines.

    What I am looking for in the S5 line is a stronger processor, more tuners and the hub and spoke implementation with distributed Mini's.

    The stronger processor should allow the TiVo to handle the OTT apps in a more stable manner. This I think will encourge content providers to partner with TiVo more then they have been willing to do so far.

    I would love to see streaming of your own media... I am hoping / suspecting that a new TiVo desktop is on the horizon as well. We can only guess if that functionality is forthcoming at this time.

    I do hear a lot of people argue there is no reason to upgrade their TiVo from say the S3 to the S4 and now ultimately the S5. And if you are only looking for a base DVR then you are correct.

    But you have the functionality you have. You are not getting anything more in a legacy product. If what you have meets your needs then there is no need to upgrade.
     
  7. Jul 9, 2013 #347 of 1049
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I thought it was a requirement that ALL M-Cards be backward compatible with S-Card devices, as in the M-Card falls back into S-Card mode. Then you have to use two M-Cards, one in each S-Card slot. Am I wrong?

    I'll stay out of the rest of the mayhem here for a while...
     
  8. Jul 9, 2013 #348 of 1049
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,710
    11
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    The dual tuner Premiere with lifetime never cost $800. The absolute worst case would have been $700 for the first one and $600 for the second and you would have had to try hard to have paid that much. However for most of it's life the dual tuner Premiere has been offered to existing customers for $500+/- with lifetime almost continuously.
     
  9. Jul 9, 2013 #349 of 1049
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Hartford-...
    Some of the S3's weren't that old when MPEG-4 started rolling out and TiVo wouldn't do the update. I'd say they should support at least 48 months from the last new unit sold, as that's the depreciation period that makes TiVo make sense from a cost perspective.

    Now it's FIOS, which covers a pretty good chunk of relatively wealthy people. There's really no excuse for that in the first place. They could have sent it out with MPEG-4 support originally. I'm sure CableLabs and others have test beds that can test MPEG-4 or just about anything else you can dream of in a lab environment.

    You can work around the M-Card thing for $1.50/mo, and you knew what you were getting into when you bought it. There is no way to work around MPEG-4.
     
  10. Jul 9, 2013 #350 of 1049
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Hartford-...
    I agree with a lot of what you said about the laggy UI and such, but the Premiere does support VOD, it's just up to the cable provider to support it. Blame your cable company if they chose not to support it. Not that VOD is that great in the first place.
     
  11. Jul 9, 2013 #351 of 1049
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,075
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    John's...
    Supporting an m-card running in single stream mode is not the same as supporting it in multi-stream mode.
     
  12. Jul 9, 2013 #352 of 1049
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Cox Cable...
    Isn't that what I said? Tell me how what I posted would speak otherwise. Back off. It was a question, to make sure I knew what I thought I did.

    I don't recall saying anything at all that would be leading anybody to possibly believe that running an M-Card in S-Card mode was the same.

    My curiosity, was simply if there may be some TiVo, which I was unaware of, with some problem with running an M-card, at all... So very simple.
     
  13. Jul 9, 2013 #353 of 1049
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
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    Oct 31, 2007
    The OLED TiVo was designed to handle a multi stream card prior to a card being avaiable. Unfortunately, once the m-card finally came on the market it wasn't compatible with the TiVo in multi stream mode.

    Hardware issue...
     
  14. Jul 9, 2013 #354 of 1049
    zalusky

    zalusky Active Member TCF Club

    5,040
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    Apr 5, 2002
    Cupertino, CA
    I would say that a better phrasing is that newer M cards are compatible with S-CARD slots. I remember in the beginning some of the M cards did not work and we had to make sure they were the latest and greatest.
     
  15. Jul 9, 2013 #355 of 1049
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    NJ
    Partially correct. A TiVo spokesman (TivoPony) once said that it was technically possible to add full M-card support to the OLED S3, but that doing so would be very difficult and could cause problems so they didn't bother trying. I don't know how much of that was truth and how much was BS, but that was what was said. If it was a hardware only issue, I doubt it could be potentially fixed in software.
     
  16. Jul 9, 2013 #356 of 1049
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,075
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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    And I was simply clarifying the issue for you and informing you that it is irrelevant whether or not an m-card will work in single stream mode. What was being complained about and has been complained about for years is that the original S3 continued to require 2 cards even after the m-cards became available. There are some posts that indicate TiVo had at least implied that multi-stream support would be added.

    I don't know as my first S3 was a THD purchased in 2008 and has never had anything but a single m-card.
     
  17. Jul 10, 2013 #357 of 1049
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    OK, that's better. I, too, never have owned a S3 OLED. I have four TiVo HDs. So, I'm familiar with the two slots. I also, recall reading on here about how the S3 OLED was *supposed to* work the same way, but didn't.

    In the scenario, where you have to rent two M-cards, each running in S-Card mode, I can see why people would be angry. As much as I feel TiVo is at the opposite end of "being all it can be", I would think that if it was anything other than hardware, it would have been fixed, long ago. Even hardware issues sometimes have software "workarounds", like the TiVo HD grey/black screen tuner issue. It took until well beyond the end of production (end-of-life point), for TiVo to issue that patch, just prior to 11.0K. Then enter the Premieres, the Premiere 4s, and all the issues they have, or have had, and how much time it takes for them to make them less frustrating to own... I fully expect, nothing less, than to be majorly underwhelmed by whatever comes next. The S3 will always need two cards to have two tuners. The HD will always have some issues, that remain unresolved. Sometimes I picture the TiVo R&D department as a heaping pile of smoking TiVo units, and the first one that doesn't explode, or catch on fire, gets put into production, released with "just barely" software, and by the time it reaches end-of-life, it may be a cool product to own, that truly provides entertainment and enjoyment, making cableco DVRs unthinkable to use. I think what truly drives many to TiVo, is the ability to expand capacity, and tinker.

    If I could make it happen, I'd solidify the TiVo user base against buying any newer product, until TiVo fixes/finishes what they already sold. Somebody made a good point about how, unless lifetime service is involved, we still pay TiVo every month to use our existing equipment, no matter how old it is. Unfortunately, it seems most of the TiVo user base will buy ANYTHING TiVo releases. It's a phenomenon, which hurts those of us that can't afford the upgrading. The way I see it, the original Premiere, is currently the product it SHOULD HAVE BEEN, the day it was released to retail. It still has a lot of issues to address, and instead of focusing on that, TiVo is shifting effort to release something "new". Unfortunately, people will buy it. :(
     
  18. Jul 10, 2013 #358 of 1049
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,162
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    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    Why wouldn't I buy it? I'll sell my S4 boxes to cover the cost of the new hardware. And have zero to very little out of pocket cost to me. I would be crazy not to upgrade.

    And in the process I'll eventually be down to one cable card. I had eight cable cards(ten if you count when I had Comcast and FiOS) at one time when I had my OLED S3 boxes and TiVoHD boxes.
    When I'm finally down to one cable card that will be only $4 a month in cable card fees. At one point I was paying $24 a month for cable cards.
     
  19. Jul 10, 2013 #359 of 1049
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,075
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    John's...
    If I understand your sig correctly, you currently have 10 tuners available. How is one box going to replace that?
     
  20. Jul 10, 2013 #360 of 1049
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
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    Oct 31, 2007
    I will absolutely upgrade as well.

    As I have said, I would go as for as saying that I am VERY happy with all the TiVo's I have owned. Yes, I have some annoyances in some models - but nothing that would make me rise up and storm the TiVo campus.

    I have three TiVo's all with lifetime. I should be able to get $300 each for my OLED and HD models. I will keep the Premier and purchase one Six tuner S5 and one Mini for the bedroom.

    That will refresh my hardware for what; a $200 - $300 investment?

    You are dang right I am going to upgrade!

    Holding off and allowing your boxes to continue to age and loose value just out of some sense of spite is a great strategy, but I will not be following you off that cliff. I might also add, this is another expample of the value of lifetime service.
     

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