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TIVO not following posted payment terms

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by grubbscd, Apr 21, 2011.

  1. grubbscd

    grubbscd New Member

    8
    0
    Feb 24, 2006
    I purchased the Amazon 49.99 special yesterday. There is no mention of the 19.99 price anywhere execept in a review. I went to the TIVO site and here are the payment plans.

    2.1 For TiVo Premiere boxes purchased on or after February 23, 2011:

    2.1.1 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box and subscription at the same time directly from TiVo, you may select one of the following options:

    (i) You may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle with

    (a) a box fee of $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box and
    (b) a monthly service fee of $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year); or
    .(ii) Existing customers may purchase a TiVo box and service bundle on a monthly basis with

    (a) no upfront cost for the TiVo Premiere box (an instant savings of $299.99 off MSRP) and

    (b) a monthly service fee of $19.99 a month with a two (2) year commitment (renews monthly after two years); or
    .(iii) You may purchase a TiVo box at the full MSRP (no instant savings) and subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year) or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399.

    2.1.2 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box from a third party retailer at $99.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere box or $299.99 (includes an instant $200 savings off MSRP) for the TiVo Premiere XL box, you may only subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $19.99 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after one year).

    2.2 For all other TiVo boxes activated on or after February 23, 2011, you may subscribe to the TiVo Service on a monthly basis for $12.95 a month with a one (1) year commitment (renews monthly after 1 year), you may purchase an annual plan for one (1) year of TiVo Service for an upfront fee of $129, or you may purchase a Product Lifetime Subscription (defined below) for a onetime fee of $399.
    ####################################################


    I called TIVO and talked to them about this. They say that this falls under section 2.1.2. But I didn't pay $99 for the Tivo. Even amazon's current price is 81.78 today. So I think it should fall under section 2.2. 12.95 or 129 or 399. I went up the line to the supervisor but they wouldn't budge. They said it was a Tivo-Amazon problem. I told them it seemed to me to be between Tivo and me. I was looking at their payment plans and reasonably believed that the pricing should be per section 2.2. Hopefully, enough pressure can be brought to make them honor their own posted payment terms.

    Otherwise, it's going back to Amazon with a big rant to them also for not posting the full terms of purchase.
     
  2. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,717
    14
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Good Luck

    All sub $99 Premieres sold since 11/14/10 have required the $19.99/mo service plain. At the beginning a few people claimed they were able to talk a CR into something other than the $19.99/mo but no one has claimed that for months.

    Both TiVo and Amazon have easy return policies so all you are going to get is if you don't want it under the current terms (which in their minds is $19.99/mo for service) is go ahead and return it.

    Even at $99 the units is being sold below TiVo's cost the only way they can do that is with the higher per month service plain.

    Thanks,
     
  3. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

    20,461
    78
    May 24, 2003
    This has been discussed at length dating back to last year when the $99 deal went live and retailers were selling it at $95 or $89 or $84 or whatever prices it ended up at.

    While I'm surprised that Tivo hasn't fixed the terms yet (do they not have enough money to hire a lawyer and rewrite the damn thing?), I don't think you'll get any traction on disputing the payment plan terms based on the discounted sales price.
     
  4. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Active Member

    15,063
    10
    Oct 23, 2001
    Northern...
    So you think because Amazon gave you another $50 off, in addition to the $200 TiVo discount* that somehow gets you out of the monthly rate TiVo links to their $200 discount? :confused:

    Now, you've got a good point that Amazon didn't clearly list all the relivant subscription info. I can see being ticked at them. But I just don't understand how you could read 2.1.2 and think it didn't apply to that box.

    *really $80 or $116 off, depending on which rate you'd have qualified for before, with the other $120 or $84 split into 12 monthly payments
     
  5. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

    20,461
    78
    May 24, 2003
    Technically, he's correct. Read the terms, and it says "at $99.99". His Tivo was not purchased at $99.99 so that section does not apply. It's a very poorly written terms of service. At the very least, it should have been amended to say "at or below $99.99".

    However, the argument just isn't going to achieve any practical real-world results, unless someone wants to start tying up a $250/hr lawyer's time over a $50 piece of consumer electronics.
     
  6. JimboG

    JimboG New Member

    521
    0
    May 27, 2007
    San Diego, CA
    Maybe not just one $50 consumer electronic device, but file an action on behalf of an entire class of people who bought a Tivo Premiere for something other than $99.99... ;)
     
  7. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,163
    21
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    They will create an addendum that states $24.99 a month for TiVos purchased below $99.99.:D
     
  8. grubbscd

    grubbscd New Member

    8
    0
    Feb 24, 2006
    Ignoring the future date of 11/14/11, it doesn't look like that according to their posted terms. Nowhere on the Amazon site is there a reference to a $200 off MSRP discount. So it doesn't look like it is part of that plan.
     
  9. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    The retailers are nor responsible for TiVo every changing sub policy, one could have called TiVo before hand or return the TiVo to Amazon, the drive and remote itself is worth the $44. As a test I tried to active a old Series 2 on my MSD eligible TiVo account and the only web option offered was the $12.95/month. A call to TiVo may have changed that but for new customers it would look like no other option existed. IMHO TiVo playing a game on pricing as their web sight no longer has any mention of any plans other than the $12. (except for existing customer upgrades)
     
  10. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,717
    14
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Other than my typo of 11/14/11 instead of 11/14/10 I am just telling you the way it is. You don't have to like it but it is what it is.

    Thanks,
     
  11. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    4,083
    0
    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    2.1 For TiVo Premiere boxes...
    2.2 For all other TiVo boxes...

    Did you purchase a TiVo Premiere? Section 2.1 applies.
    Did you purchase any other model of TiVo? Section 2.2 applies.

    Seems pretty clear to me.
     
  12. lew

    lew Active Member

    3,954
    3
    Mar 12, 2002
    You bought a tivo Premiere with a list price of 99.99 at a retailer discounted price of 49.99. The monthly fee is 19.99
     
  13. smbaker

    smbaker Well-Known Member

    20,461
    78
    May 24, 2003
    To quote the OP: "When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box from a third party retailer at $99.99"

    The ToS doesn't say anything about a 'list price'. The buyer purchased it 'at' 49.95, not 99.99. If Tivo wants to bind the buyer based on the list price, not the purchase price, then they need to say 'list price' in the terms of service. They didn't. Bad tivo. Bad.
     
  14. kturcotte

    kturcotte New Member

    1,159
    0
    Dec 8, 2002
    Portland, ME
    I wonder how much this is costing companies in either return shipping fees and/or dealing with restocking returns. There SHOULD be a notice right on the box AND customers SHOULD be told at time of purchase that the box will REQUIRE a $20 a month service fee.
     
  15. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,717
    14
    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Amazon does clearly state "Monthly subscription required" and if you went to tivo.con to find out what it would be it sure would look like it it is $19.99/mo if you had any dought and called that is what they would tell you. So I don't see why anyone would think it is something else unless they just didn't check and went on past experance.

    Thanks,
     
  16. grubbscd

    grubbscd New Member

    8
    0
    Feb 24, 2006
    Funny, That's exactly what TIVO says.

    If you try to pigeon-hole your purchase into TIVO's pricing terms, it looks like it falls into the section 2.2 bucket. They should change their terms for 2.1.2 to purchasing from a third party retailer at $99 or less. 2 extra words clears up a lot of problems.

    Now if I decide to keep the equipment and not sign up for the monthly service, what can TIVO do? And if I sell the box later to some other user, can they sign up for the 12.95 option? How about I sell it to my wife? :p
     
  17. vurbano

    vurbano New Member

    449
    0
    Apr 20, 2004
    Amazon discounted the unit $50 dollars below the $99 dollars. It is between you and Amazon.
     
  18. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Active Member

    15,063
    10
    Oct 23, 2001
    Northern...
    Actually it only partly clears up the problem. Because the minute a retailer goes a couple bucks over the discounted MSRP the same argument is back. "It says $99 or less and I got charged $105. I should get the $13/month fee, not the $20"

    It needs to be clearer that it applies to all TiVos where the $200 discount to full MSRP has been applied. Because that's what TiVo really cares about. Maybe move the $99/$299 into parenthesis.

    Something like: "2.1.2 When purchasing a TiVo Premiere box from a third party retailer with the instant $200 savings off MSRP (new suggested retail price $99.99) for the TiVo Premiere box or (new suggested retail price $299.99) for the TiVo Premiere XL box..."
     
  19. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    TiVos English may leave a lot to be desired but at this point in time ANY TP that never had a sub and is not a refurb unit (The TSN has an extra 1 ie xxx-xx1x-xxxx-xxxx) will pay the $19.99/month rate, you can't purchase it from Amazon and then sell it to your son for $299 so he can get the $12.95 monthly rate. As time goes on even calling TiVo with a tail of but i paid $299 on E-Bay because I am a jerk will not work most of the time in getting you a lower than $19.99/month rate.
     
  20. dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,116
    73
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    EXACTLY..
    and for the OP to even try to play the "but I didn't know" game assumes that Tivo is naive in this, of course the OP knew, they were trying to get out of the $19.95 and thought they found a loophole.

    The loophole to get out of $19.95 is to pay full price (or buy a woot refurb)
     

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