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TiVo Mini Review Roundup

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by Peter Redmer, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly correct. Especially when the consumer wants to confirm the definition and calls Tivo to ask, and gets conflicting and inaccurate information.

    Or, we could simply blame the people who spend their money on gaps created by poor documentation, extremely poor support, untrained staff, and inaccurate responses from the company who designs, manufactures, distributes, sells, and (supposedly) supports the product.
     
  2. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    May 14, 2007
    Paradise...
    I see you've never encountered the wonderful Ceton Echo then I presume? ;)
     
  3. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    No, fortunately I have not. :)
     
  4. Loach

    Loach New Member

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    Omaha, NE
    I don't mean to absolve Tivo support at all for their incorrect answers. I guess I'm just more comfortable always doing my own homework using the published product descriptions and specifications when researching a potential purchase. At least published information has (generally) been reviewed by somebody who knows the product. I've rarely had any luck getting accurate information from sales people in general, much less call center employees. So I no longer bother.
     
  5. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    I would agree about doing your own research, except I did review all of the product descriptions and specifications. They are woefully inadequate. And with such a very very narrow focused quantity of products, if the sales staff does not understand the equipment and services they are talking about they should not be employed. Period.
     
  6. swarto112

    swarto112 New Member

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    i just finished reading another string of arguments about sales staff from wmhjr. Same crap about sales staff. Shut up and buy dude or dont. Most of us are smart enuf togather info and decide to buy but its taken with a grain of salt. remember the world is a grey area, not stiff rights and wrong that you agitate on these forums

     
  7. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    thanks. I really appreciate your key insights about how the world works, and how apparently companies should be given a free pass when they fail. BTW, you might want to take a class on English as a first language. Not entirely sure what that run-on sentence really meant. But, it's nice to see that different opinions are valued from you. Especially since you've contributed so much over the course of the past few months that you've been here. Maybe you also missed where I thanked some other contributors for the civil discussion - something that some people are clearly incapable of having.
     
  8. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    At retail? Where?

    IMO, the MSO competition is a totally separate market.
     
  9. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    Why do you think the MSO competition is a separate market? I don't quite understand that. My comparisons are always Tivo vs MSO offering. In discussions with friends and guests at my home, the conversations are always MSO vs Tivo.

    It's all about what "service" and at what "price" the consumer gets, correct? Not about whether it's a retail vs MSO.
     
  10. Davisadm

    Davisadm TiVo is awesome!!!!!

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    SoCal
    You are right, MSOs are not a separate market.

    TiVo is in direct competition with the MSOs. TiVos replace the MSO boxes. This is exactly what the MSOs do not want, because it cuts into their monthly revenue. And, unfortunately, the MSOs have a huge budget for advertising and successful in pushing their product. As I have stated before, TiVo has to increase their advertising, big time.
     
  11. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    Now on that part, I totally disagree. Tivos problem has nothing whatsoever to do with advertising. It has everything to do with value proposition, cost to entry (up front cost), long term cost, feature/function, quality, service, simplicity, etc.

    Tivo is either a "Premium" service, in which case Tivo needs to deliver significantly increased value, quality and features than the MSO offering, or they are a "Value" service, in which case they need to deliver equal or better features and quality at a direct competitive price point. The price point for the general public needs to be able to avoid large up front costs for it to be a large scale value business.

    The problem is that years ago, Tivo was clearly a premium offering. Tivo offered features and functions simply not available to the consumer otherwise. Today, we can all argue (and agree) that the Tivo UI is far better than most of the MSO offerings. However, what we can NOT agree on is that the MSOs can't compete on feature/function. In fact, they've been doing "whole house" far longer than Tivo, at a lower cost, and with more simplicity.

    So the question here is not whatsoever about advertisement. It's about figuring out what they want to be and focusing on that segment. Right now, they're in between both IMHO, and not leading either. Let's all be honest - it's way harder today to describe exactly why Tivo is better than what Comcast offered than it was in 2005. I'm (still) a Tivo subscriber, so I personally value some of what Tivo delivers. But this board is hardly representative of the general public, as evidenced by the market results compared to what we see here. Beyond that, the advent of Hulu+, Roku, built in streaming capability into PS3, Xbox, Blueray and smart TVs have all in addition intruded into the value proposition of Tivo. And the more IP based content there starts to be, the argument gets more difficult. It's a tough market to play in right now - certainly not easy for Tivo. That's exactly why if you're looking for "direct retail competitors" it's hard to define one. Tivos competition are the MSOs, Roku, etc.
     
  12. eagle63

    eagle63 New Member

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    @wmhjr
    I couldn't agree more with your entire post. I think the premium market is where they belong, but you're absolutely correct - they really need to add more services to justify the higher cost. I actually left Tivo about 2 1/2 years ago because I wanted a whole-house solution. I ended up going with windows media center (which was light years ahead in many respects) and am still happily using it now. However, it's effectively an end-of-life product so I try to keep an ear to the wind to see what my next step might be once I'm done with WMC. It's great to see Tivo trying to do the whole-house thing but it's just amazing how slowly they move. Hopefully the evolve the Mini rapidly.
     
  13. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

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    Rochester NY
    Unless you can point to a superior cable whole home system being provided by the MSOs then TiVo is still a Premium solution. Also unless you think the data about cost posted in a thread a few inches away from this is incorrect then TiVo is cost completive and in many cases a value leader in providing a whole home DVR solution. So we have a Premium product that is either cost completive or cheaper than the MSOs inferior alternatives that isn't selling and you don't think marketing is a problem? Really?

    I live in a TWC area and have priced out their so called whole home system for friends and TiVo is flat out cheaper unless you are thick headed enough to think you are only going to watch TV for less than 2 years and TiVo's DVRs are light years ahead of what TWC is offering.

    I do agree that TiVo needs to significantly improve their IP/Internet streaming options but what does the TWC or any other MSO's whole home solution offer? Answer Nothing.

    Where TiVo does fail is in the simplicity area. Until the FCC grows a pair and mandates a simple software solution having to use cable cards and possibly tuning adapters is going to increase complexity and certainly turn off many potential buyers. Tivo is also never going to be able to actually rent you a DVR that includes installation and maintenance, so stand alone TiVos will never be a solution for people that want that. Both of the above are reasons why it is so important for TiVo to partner with MSOs and get them to rent their customers TiVo DVRs.
     
  14. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I strongly disagree with you on a number of fronts.

    First of all, you're making the assumption that people are willing to spend their money up front (more than $1000) in order to make those numbers works where Tivo is even remotely competitive from a price perspective. If you don't do lifetime and you don't get decent resale, then the Tivo math just plain does not work. Both of those are big ifs. Most people are simply unwilling to give Tivo the money up front in that quantity, knowing that if the unit fails, you then have to spend yet more money to replace/fix hardware. Additionally, with the changing dynamics of the market, continued resale value is hardly promised. At least any more than it was in the housing bubble. Remember that?

    As for the technology, from a whole home solution, Tivo solutions are frankly inferior at the moment. The mini makes it "better", but not equal. The fact that the mini degrades your four tuner box to a 3 tuner (or 2 tuner) is incredibly telling. I'm not blaming Tivo. But those are the facts. Tivo is finally delivering to an extent what the MSOs have been delivering now for years.

    I understand your perspective, but simply disagree with it. If I take a step back and don't look at things through my "TiVo centric" glasses, then it is extremely clear that no matter how you calculate it, Tivo has lost the edge, and certainly has lost the financial advantage. My FiOS bill is living proof.

    People here are very quick to accept shelling out $1200-$2000 up front to get a user experience (whole house) that cable will provide with no up front investment. Do NOT underestimate that. Do NOT underestimate the fact that their solution does NOT decrease available recording tuners. Do NOT overlook the fact that repairs and warranty are essentially meaningless for them, since the product is actually owned by the Cableco. Again, my 2007 Verizon FiOS HD DVR is being exchanged - this week - at no cost - for their very newest version. Show me exactly where Tivo has ever done that. It means something to consumers. We may have different objectives and criteria, however the general public is very VERY different than the average person on this site. And, if Tivo expects to be financially successful simply based on the members of this site, then we're in serious trouble all around.
     
  15. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    CT
    +1
     
  16. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    The biggest TiVo has is cost, which to a lay person always appears to be higher than that of MSO offerings. Add to that the perceived complexity of the install with cable cards and TiVo clearly has problems.
     
  17. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    While I completely agree with your stance as well, you also have to realize that based on the quote above, since 2007 if you've been using their wondeful equipment and paying the "DVR, extra outlet, mirroring Fees, yada yada yada" which are in the $20-50 or more per month range, then you've more than paid for a TiVo or two, or that upgrade they're supposedly giving you for "free", no?
     
  18. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Northern...
    But my neighbors with FiOS and Comcast DVRs are always complaining about missed recordings. I don't care if it is free. If it doesn't record what I want then it is worthless. My neighbors typically miss more recordings every few months than I have in over ten years of using TiVos.
     
  19. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Nov 12, 2004
    Texas
    +3
     
  20. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Texas
    And yet they put up with it... what's the reason for that? Obviously the upfront cost or some other factor is keeping them from buying a Tivo.
     

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