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TiVo HD XL freezing/rebooting on Day 353 of purchase (Kickstart 54 Fail 7)

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by SoKal5366, Feb 13, 2011.

  1. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
    California
    I bought my TiVo HD XL 353 days ago, along with a Product Lifetime Service (PLS). Yes, I went all the way, convinced by my great experience with my HDVR2. :) Anyways....

    Symptoms. Just like other posts, I was away from the house, and when I came back, my TiVo was behaving oddly. I noticed that a show's recording was truncated. I then noticed that playback was jittery/stuttering. I was then shocked to see the TiVo unresponsive to the remote, and finally it crashed and reset itself! (That never happened with my HDVR2!!!)

    Another symptom: A channel that I'm watching live and recording will suddenly go gray on my TV. If I switch channels away, requiring me to cancel the recording, and then back again to that channel, and can see the broadcast. In the past, a gray signal told me that it was a station that I wasn't paying for, but in this case, it was a channel that I receive (like NBC). Very bizarre.

    The internal temperature of my box is "39C (Normal)".

    I actually noticed that video was stuttering a few weeks ago, but attributed it to Verizon FiOS, but now I think I was wrong.

    Kickstart 57. I think I started all this by running Kickstart 57. "Detecting and repaiting" sounded like a good idea. Went though the GSOD, TiVo presumably ran mfscheck, but no help. Recording a live program crashed, after stuttering and pixelating, and watching a previously recorded programmed crashed (maybe this isn't a good test, since it may be corrupt on disk).

    Deleted suggestions and thumb ratings. From a fresh reboot, I had TiVo delete all my suggestions and thumb ratings (not a big deal for me). This didn't help recording or replaying the troublesome program.

    Freed disk space. I deleted a bunch of programs, including 12 TiVo suggestions. The 12 suggestions suggests that I was sort of full, but not complete. I deleted 20-30 programs. This didn't help recording or replaying the troublesome program.

    Kickstart 57. I ran Kickstart 54's SMART diagnostic. I only have an internal 1 TB factory drive, so I'll only report the primary results.

    Initial state:........Pass
    Short test:...........Fail 7
    Conveyance test.......Fail 7
    Extended test.........Fail 7
    Off-line scan.........Running

    Test time (ext.)......333:00
    Test time (elapsed)...696:00

    After this 11-1/2 hours of testing, I reset the box by unplugging/plugging it back in (yes, I read about the pros and cons of this).

    I don't think this fixed anything. Again, my simple test is to (1) record a program, which usually fails with stuttering/pixelization/hanging, and (2) watch a previously recorded program that caused it to reset before. The former I can sometimes recover from. The latter always causes a crash and reset.

    Kickstart 54 again, different results. I ran KS 54 again. This time, I got Initial state Fail, and Fail 4 for the other tests. Yikes!

    I could still watch live, but the same program that crashed the box before, crashes it again. It behaves very bizarrely before crashing. The reply starts stuttering. I try pressing the TiVo button. I get the main menu's items, but the program I was watching still plays, and I can't select anything on the menu. I try switching to live TV. I try doing anything, but by that time, it seems all is lost. I'm heading to a crash and reboot. :( I don't know if these symptoms tell anyone anything.

    Kickstart 58. I ran KS 58. Afterwards, no improvement.

    KS 54 "Short automated test." I tried running KS 54's "Short automated test." It quick ran and produced an error:

    Read, random locations on /dev/hda

    TEST FAILED
    There are now 1 point(s) in the Red Zone

    Plus a bunch of green dots at the bottom, a few bigger yellow dots in the middle, three red triangles, and one big red triangle.

    After this, the TiVo hung. I had to power cycle it by pulling the cord.

    KS 57 one more time. I ran Kickstart 57 one more time. Went through the GSOD (appeared at 3:25p, disappeared at 3:31p and the welcome screen appeared), it presumably ran mfscheck, but afterwards, no improvement.

    Finally, I waved a rubber chicken at the TiVo, and even that didn't fix anything! :) So, that's when I had to turn to the kind folks at this forum for advice.

    * * *

    So.........why am I writing this?

    1. Are there some other diagnostics that I should be running?
    2. Is there any way that I know that mfscheck really repaired something? It sure seems like its done nothing! :)
    3. I'm just two days away from the end of my 1-year parts limited warranty. What do folks recommend? Take TiVo up on their warranty? Or just blow it off, and fix it myself? (I feel like I only have a day to figure this out.)
    4. What are my options for keeping my recordings. I'm not wed to them, but it "would be nice." What's the deal with copying them to my PC and then to a newly installed drive?
    5. Can people believe that I'm having these problems after just one year?!? Should I be demanding a brand new box instead of a refurbished one?
    6. I want to cry on your shoulders a little bit. One freakin' year? My HDVR2 lasted seven years. I was planning on this box lasting 5 years to make my $399 lifetime service pay off. I'm starting to doubt that decision. :(
    Thanks in advance for your advice and help.

    --Ken
     
  2. alyssa

    alyssa Active Member

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    The...
    Well, my first thought is that the HDD is the problem.
    If it is the HD then it's about a $100 buck fix(for a new HD) assuming your comfortable opening up your computer & burning a boot disk. I'd fix it myself and not bother with tivo. They'll charge you more then it'll cost you to put in a new drive.

    The big question will be if you can save the image & cable card parings off your old drive. If I were you I'd stop messing with it in the hopes of getting a good image off of it.

    There's two methods of upgrading, Winmfs & jmfs. Winmfs will give you more room because you can use a 2TB HDD. I think with the jmfs will allow a max of 1.35TB.
    Two threads to look at;
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784
     
  3. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
    California
    Thanks, alyssa, for getting back to me and for your advice.

    Hmmm...the cable card pairings. I hadn't thought (or read) about that. Thanks.

    Another symptom: I was watching a show that I had watched before I left for the week. I don't remember it skipping before I left, but now it is. Another clue...maybe.
     
  4. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I think alyssa may have swapped the jmfs and winmfs capabilities but consult the Drive Expansion FAQ sticky thread in the Series 3 forum as the ultimate authority on DIY, and post questions there for best responses.

    Another option is to buy a pre-imaged HDD from DVR_DUDE on eBay or weaknees.com. The 1 TB drive is around $139 I think. Replacing the drive is extremely easy and quick. You will lose all recordings, etc., and you will have to have your CableCARD(s) re-paired, which usually requires a truck roll (although it shoudn't). The only way to avoid re-pairing is if you can get a good image backup using WinMFS from your current drive and I think your chances of doing that are about zero. Getting failure messages on KS54 indicates a pretty severe failure. However, depending on which FIOS system you're on, you may not have to re-pair the cards at all.

    Note that replacing the HDD does not invalidate your lifetime sub.

    EDIT: If you are on record with TiVo with a warranty problem within the one year period, what deal will they offer you? I think they offer a refurbished replacement for a $50 charge, but not sure what they do about the lifetime sub transfer.
     
  5. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
    California
    Thanks, dlfl, for the reply. DVR_DUDE says Verizon FiOS doesn't require a call at all. I don't know. I'm in Southern California. The initial CableCARD pairing required a truck roll; we'll have to wait and see.

    I'm handy, so I'm not worried about replacing the drive. Funny, I only have a laptop (but a nice Dell Precision MX6300! :)), so I guess I would have to do this with a desktop at work. (I'm an engineer, so I have access to numerous PCs.)

    I was reading about jmfs and winmfs. Thanks for the heads up about which is for which.

    dlfl, you said you think my "chances of [getting a good image backup using WinMFS] are about zero." Does this also mean my chances of saving my currently recorded programs are zero, too? (I wouldn't be surprised.)
     
  6. ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    WinMFS works great using a USB-SATA adapter.
     
  7. alyssa

    alyssa Active Member

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    Yep.
    And dlfl is correct; WinMFS=1.35 TB, jmfs=2TB. Sorry 'bout the misspeak. But I think Tivo will charge $150 for a swap out. IIRC, that's how much they charged me 5 years ago when I was in your position. Plus you won't get a bigger HDD.

    I figured you were ok with the DYI method due to the extensive testing you did. I've done both methods & the jmfs is my preferred method. I don't know about the supersize issue tho, it's a significant space so I'd investigate it.

    I think another problem will be getting a new image. DVDupgrade offers one for $40. http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/store...&Category_ID=5&ModelID=100&AGG=&Options=17022

    Once you get the new drive up & running, create a backup on your computer. I don't know if a backup img stored on your computer will also store the CC paring.
     
  8. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I think DVR_DUDE is a little behind the times regarding CC re-pairing on FIOS. What he says used to be true but now some FIOS systems (perhaps just the ones sold to Frontier?) are requiring pairing. If you post your specific FIOS system and location here, someone else may be able to tell you whether you need pairing. Or ask FIOS support. (Good luck with that!).

    The DVR_DUDE 2 TB plug-in upgrade for your model (6580000) is $180. He doesn't list a 1 TB replacement for the THD-XL, don't know what that means but you could ask him. The 1 TB upgrade for the THD (not XL) is just $109. For these prices, even though I've done WinMFS stuff before, I would be very tempted to avoid the possible hassles and take the easy route.

    Also, yes a WinMFS backup does store the CC pairings. That's an advantage of going that route -- but it depends on being able to get a good backup image from your current drive, which is questionable if it's failing. Unfortunately you may not find out if the image is corrupted until you put it on another drive, install in TiVo..... If you restore a backup you got from another TiVo, you have to do a Clear and Delete All and obviously don't have the pairing information (which would be incorrect anyway).
     
  9. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
    California
    Thanks, ggieseke, alyssa, and dlfl. I'm taking it all in. Much appreciated.

    I documented my original exchange with Verizon regarding CCARDs here: businessforums.verizon.net/t5/FiOS-TV-Technical-Assistance/M-CARDs-in-Southern-California/m-p/161652 (sorry, couldn't embed it as a link, since I'm a newbie). I'm in Redondo Beach, CA, although in Tivo's system information, it reports the provider as "Verizon Fios Pomona". If anyone knows if they still need to roll a truck, let me know.

    Hmmm...WinMFS or plug-and-play from DVR_DUDE, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune-- Oh, sorry, it just trips off the tongue. :p

    * * *

    BTW, I'm trying to copy my previously recorded programs to my PC. My PC is a high-performance Dell Precision M6300, which is connected to a Toshiba 1 TB drive via USB 2.0. The laptop is set to not go into sleep or hibernate mode. After running overnight, only one 30 minute and one 1h15m program have transferred, and eight others have failed. I often see that they transfers get "Interrupted." I haven't even begun to start looking this up in the forums, and don't want to segue this thread away from my TiVo HD XL problem, but this is related to my trying to save my programs.

    Honestly, even if I can get all 80+ recordings saved on my PC, I'm not even sure I can restore these saved programs onto my new disk drive.

    * * *

    I guess if I go with the DVR_DUDE route, there's no way to get my old programs off my old drive--assuming the drive functions well after I remove it from my TiVo and connect to a PC--and back into my TiVo???

    Thanks in advance for all the great help.
     
  10. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
    California
    Just got off the phone with TiVo support, and thought I'd provide an update for everyone's information.

    I'm now at Day 364 of my 1-year warranty. The customer support gentleman was very kind and helpful. I was very happy that I was able to cut through his script by telling him I had already run Kickstart 54 and 57. That got us talking exchanges right away. Nice fast track, huh? :)
    What really happened was this: I quickly asked if he knew about Kickstart, and he said yes, but that those were steps of last resort because they can lose programs. :rolleyes: Well, I said, I had already run them. He asked for the error codes. I told him. He put me on hold, and a minute later, we came back and we were talking exchange.
    Here's today's exchange policy and programs (as of 2/2011), as they were told to me. It is $49 to exchange. They pay for shipping both ways. (I didn't ask, but we all know it's refurbished.) They have two types of exchanges: advanced and standard. In standard, I send my box back first, and upon receipt, they send me a replacement. With advanced, they send me a box first, and upon receive, I return my bad box in the box used to ship me the replacement. The only catch is that they charge me a deposit of full retail--$499--for the new box, and then refund this deposit when my old box arrives. Thus, initially I get charged $548 plus tax, and when they receive the old box, $499 plus tax is refunded to me.

    Regarding my Product Lifetime Subscription, the customer support guy said that his screen is not showing any charge for that, letting me infer that it was free.

    A little more information. If this had happened after the 1-year warranty deadline, he said it would cost me $149 to exchange. All in all, not bad, I'd say. However, he couldn't comment on any potential charges for the Product Lifetime Subscription.

    So, there you go.

    * * *

    He also said that the shows I copy to my PC could not be uploaded to the new box that they ship to me.

    I still wonder if that's true if I get a plug-and-play disk from DVR_DUDE?

    * * *

    I have until tomorrow to make my decision: Day 365. :) :) :)
     
  11. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Sounds like mostly good news. I hope you got a reference number and/or the name of the rep you talked to. There have been a lot of complaints about inconsistent policy representations by TiVo reps. The point I would be a little uneasy about is the lifetime sub transfer at no cost. It should be free as stated, but......

    Otherwise the pricing and terms you report are pretty much what has been standard and well known here.

    I don't know why you wouldn't be able to transfer files back over from your PC, unless you end up with a different MAK (Media Access Key), and I don't think that will happen. This comment applies to either DVR_DUDE or TiVo replacement. Maybe someone else can verify/dispute this?
     
  12. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
    California
    dlfl, I did get reference numbers, thanks for asking and for the heads up.

    So, the programs I'm downloading are tied to the MAK (CCARD)? If true, I guess I'm not wasting my time.

    * * *

    BTW, talking to the same TiVo customer rep lead me to my Kaspersky, which led me to a discussion at this forum about a 2 GB limit. I have KIS 2009, which appears to have no solution other than turning it off. Sigh. Oh well, that's what I did, and now I'm not getting a failure with a big 2+ hour program. :) It's not done yet, but it's looking good.

    * * *

    I'm researching WinMFS now...but still can't decide if I want to spend the time, or get a refurb for $50, or go the DVR_DUDE route. Decisions, decisions....
     
  13. evanborkow

    evanborkow Member

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    In the KIS settings, there is a way to have the program not monitor the Tivo transfers. It's not that easy to find and I'm sorry I can't tell you off the top of my head but a quick call to Kaspersky tech support should due the trick.
     
  14. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    Dayton OH
    Transferred programs are tied to the MAK (to enable decryption of TiVo encryption) but the MAK has nothing to do with the CableCARD(s). I think it's tied to your TiVo account. IIRC, when I transferred my TiVo subscription from a Series 2 to my THD, the MAK stayed the same -- but my memory isn't perfect. ;)

    As a worst case, as long as you have the MAK that goes with the recordings on your PC, you can decode them to mpeg2 with TiVoDecode or other programs, then transfer them back to the new TiVo with pyTiVo.
     
  15. alyssa

    alyssa Active Member

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    I think it depends on how much space you want. Personally I like lots of room. :D
     
  16. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    I haven't seen a solution for KIS 2009 posted. In fact, I've read just the opposite. There is no solution for 2009, but here are for 2008 and 2010. But maybe I'm wrong, and you're right. I should call tech support. They've helped me in the past. Thanks.
     
  17. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    So I guess WD20EARS is a good 2TB drive to buy? I see that richsadams has one, and they seem to be just around $90.

    Or a WD20EVDS ($120 or so)?

    Do you guys like one better than the other? Or a third better than these two? I've been reading and reading, but thought I'd ask. I'm all ears.

    Do I still need to do the wdidle3.exe thing with they guys these days?
     
  18. alyssa

    alyssa Active Member

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    Both are good. I think both of them don't have the intellapark issue, assuming you get a recently made one. I didn't have a problem with an EVS w/ a birthdate of 9.10.10.

    I use to use KAS but got fed up with the transfer issue. I couldn't find a work around aside from turning it off.
     
  19. dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    I would recommend searching the Drive Expansion FAQ sticky thread on these two model numbers, just to make sure you don't miss anything.

    As I understand it, a 2 TB expansion will require JMFS, and possibly then running WinMFS for the supersize step. Be sure to review this post:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8340017#post8340017
     
  20. SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Thanks, dlfl, for the info. Lots of great information here in the forum; I appreciate your help trying to sort it out.

    I've been to the Drive Expansion FAQ (several times :)). On the first page the only recommendations I can find for 2TB drives is this: "2.0TB EVDS and EVDS drives are relatively quiet high-capacity drives." Maybe I'm missing something and need to read deeper. I've been doing searches for "2TB" and "2.0TB" but finally decided to just ask in this thread.

    From my reading, there seems to be two preferred/popular ways to upgrade to 2TB: using WinMFS only, or as you said, using jmfs "with a touch of WinMFS" to do the supersizing.

    On the Drive Expansion and Upgrade FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784), it says: "Note you can only prepare a >1.1TB drive using WinMFS; you cannot prepare a >1.1TB drive using MFSLive or InstantCake."

    Again, thanks for you help, dlfl. I'm not trying to be contradictory. I'm just trying to figure things out before I go out a buy a drive. I'd like to do that this morning. I'm a little bit excited about that. I love the drive recommendations on the Drive Expansion and Upgrade FAQ for 1TB and smaller drivers, but wondered if there was more recent information that I haven't found yet on the big bad 2TB boys.
     

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