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Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by Tivoitis, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    It sounds like your 750GB drive isn't to be trusted. Those drives have a 3 year warranty. perhaps you can get an RMA from WD? Hopefully you have the original TiVo drive on the shelf.

    The housekeeping question is a good one...however I've never noticed much of a difference between drives with respect to updating SP's, etc. Actually your old drive was faster so in theory going to a GP drive would slow things down, but again, I've never seen much difference either way.

    Some adjustments just seem faster than others and I think that depends on the number of updates that have to be made plus the communications with TiVo's servers. In other words, shows that have a lot of data (many scheduled recordings) tend to take longer to move, delete, etc. than those that have a smaller amount of files. I'm sure how the changes affect other recordings, where each is with respect to priority and other considerations have an impact as well. However if it's working faster...that's always a good thing. :up:
     
  2. retiredqwest

    retiredqwest Member

    164
    0
    Sep 7, 2010

    I can't see where you did something wrong. I would assume Weaknees set up the drive in some unconventional way or some way so one could not copy and expand to a larger drive.

    I am curious if you are willing to do this. Run WIMMFS on the Weeknees drive and under View and click on the Msinfo function. Save the results and upload it this thread or PM it to me.

    I'll do some testing with JMFS and WINMFS to see what if any differences in the way they write the partitions on the THD.
     
  3. bobby4919

    bobby4919 New Member

    10
    0
    Oct 10, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Here's how the Weaknees 1tb is formatted:

    Mfsinfo (Drive 1)

    Boot Page
    Boot Page: root=/dev/hda7
    Active Boot Partition: 6 Active Root Partition: 7
    Backup Boot Partition: 3 Backup Root Partition: 4

    MFS Super Header
    state=0 magic=ebbafeed
    devlist=/dev/hda10 /dev/hda11 /dev/hda12 /dev/hda13 /dev/hda14 /dev/hda15
    zonemap_ptr=1121 total_secs=1951652864

    Zone Maps
    Z0: type=0
    map_start=1121 map_size=1 backup_map_start=589822
    next_map_start=263266 next_map_size=6 next_backup_map_start=589816
    zone_first=1122 zone_last=263265 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
    free=262144 checksum=9239cb5b logstamp=14460519 num_bitmap=1
    Z1: type=2
    map_start=263266 map_size=6 backup_map_start=589816
    next_map_start=263272 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=589782
    zone_first=589824 zone_last=138215423 zone_size=137625600 min(chunk)=20480
    free=532480 checksum=f0500485 logstamp=14530307 num_bitmap=14
    Z2: type=1
    map_start=263272 map_size=34 backup_map_start=589782
    next_map_start=138219520 next_map_size=1 next_backup_map_start=138809343
    zone_first=263306 zone_last=589777 zone_size=326472 min(chunk)=8
    free=58488 checksum=7adb55f0 logstamp=14530328 num_bitmap=17
    Z3: type=0
    map_start=138219520 map_size=1 backup_map_start=138809343
    next_map_start=138481665 next_map_size=10 next_backup_map_start=138809333
    zone_first=138219521 zone_last=138481664 zone_size=262144 min(chunk)=262144
    free=262144 checksum=b67c259b logstamp=14460519 num_bitmap=1
    Z4: type=2
    map_start=138481665 map_size=10 backup_map_start=138809333
    next_map_start=138481675 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=138809299
    zone_first=138809344 zone_last=310718463 zone_size=171909120 min(chunk)=20480
    free=1024000 checksum=644183ce logstamp=14530307 num_bitmap=15
    Z5: type=1
    map_start=138481675 map_size=34 backup_map_start=138809299
    next_map_start=310728705 next_map_size=34 next_backup_map_start=310729693
    zone_first=138481709 zone_last=138809292 zone_size=327584 min(chunk)=8
    free=290288 checksum=dea4c07b logstamp=14530324 num_bitmap=17
    Z6: type=2
    map_start=310728705 map_size=34 backup_map_start=310729693
    next_map_start=0 next_map_size=0 next_backup_map_start=-6148914691236517206
    zone_first=310729728 zone_last=1951652863 zone_size=1640923136 min(chunk)=32768
    free=5570560 checksum=a1227be4 logstamp=14530328 num_bitmap=17

    Partition Maps
    #: type name length base ( size )
    1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
    2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309549120 ( 512.0 )
    3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309549121 ( 4.0M)
    4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309557313 ( 256.0M)
    5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310081601 ( 512.0 )
    6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310081602 ( 4.0M)
    7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310089794 ( 256.0M)
    8 Swap Linux swap 260096@310614082 ( 127.0M)
    9 Ext2 /var 524288@310874178 ( 256.0M)
    10 MFS MFS application region 589824@311398466 ( 288.0M)
    11 MFS MFS media region 137629696@171919424 ( 65.6G)
    12 MFS Second MFS application region 589824@311988290 ( 288.0M)
    13 MFS Second MFS media region 171919360@64 ( 82.0G)
    14 MFS New MFS Application 1024@312578114 ( 512.0K)
    15 MFS New MFS Media 1640923136@312579138 ( 782.5G)
    16 Apple_Free Extra 22894@1953502274( 11.2M)

    Total SA SD Hours: 1040 Total DTV SD Hours: 908 0 % Free
    Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160
     
  4. retiredqwest

    retiredqwest Member

    164
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    As per the PM I sent you and for the rest. It appears that partition 16 is hosing the expand using JMFS.

    JMFS ALWAYS will write a new partition and in this case the THD saw it as the external drive and when you divorced them. It reverted back to the 1TB total.


    From what I've been reading that Apple_Free is not used by the Tivo and probably can be deleted..... I just don't know how.

    I just found this on MFSlive FAQ:

    How many times can I expand using mfstools?
    To answer this questions, we need to know how tivo drive is organized.
    Tivo drive can have up to 16 partitions per drive.

    "A" drive
    Partition 1 - Modified Apple Partition Map
    Partition 2 - Bootstrap 1
    Partition 3 - Kernel 1
    Partition 4 - Root 1
    Partition 5 - Bootstrap 2
    Partition 6 - Kernel 2
    Partition 7 - Root 2
    Partition 8 - Linux Swap
    Partition 9 - /var
    Partition 10 - mfs application region 1
    Partition 11 - mfs media region 1
    Partition 12 - mfs application region 2
    Partition 13 - mfs media region 2
    Partition 14 - mfs application region 3
    Partition 15 - mfs media region 3
    Partition 16 - Apple free

    So, JMFS will not work on a drive that already has 16 partitions.
     
  5. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Apple_Free isn't really a partition, it's what unpartitioned space gets called when the Apple_Partition_Map is used.

    If you delete it, it'll be back again next restart of the drive.
     
  6. retiredqwest

    retiredqwest Member

    164
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    The Stock THD Drives doesn't have it...

    Partition Maps
    #: type name length base ( size )
    1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
    2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
    3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
    4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
    5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
    6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
    7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
    8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
    9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
    10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
    11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
    12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
    13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)

    Total SA SD Hours: 165 Total DTV SD Hours: 144 56 % Free
    Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160
     
  7. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Perhaps they figured out how not to leave any unpartitioned space, since Apple_Free is what they call the unpartitioned leftovers at the end of the drive.

    This may very well not be a magic feature of the Apple Partition Map scheme, but rather the interpretation the pdisk command puts on unpartitioned space.

    It would be interesting to move some Tivo partitions around so that the unused space is somewhere in the middle instead of the end and see if it comes up with the same self-restoring name.
     
  8. retiredqwest

    retiredqwest Member

    164
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    Is it possible that was a S3 and older way of doing the partitions?

    FYI, the TP doesn't have an Apple_Free entry either.
     
  9. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Apple_Free is the name given to unpartitioned space. If there is no unpartitioned space, there won't be an entry in the Partition Map that'll get the Apple_Free label.

    Partitioning is apparently an arcane art that involves choosing between cylinder bounderies or MB boundries or unaligned, and cluster sizes, and other confusing stuff, so sometimes there's some slack at the end, and sometimes there's not.
     
  10. retiredqwest

    retiredqwest Member

    164
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    Carrying on...

    When I did all of my previous testing of JMFS it was using REV .86, so thought it was time to see what happens with REV 1.04 on the THD.

    I have done several Copy & Expand on various sizes of drives. Kinda sad I have that many spare drives....

    I went from the stock 160G to a 200G, then from the 200G to a 320G and then from the 320G to a 500G.

    by now I had 16 partitions and all of the above drives booted up in the THD with no burps.


    This is the partition map for the 500G:
    Partition Maps
    #: type name length base ( size )
    1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
    2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
    3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
    4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
    5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
    6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
    7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
    8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
    9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
    10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
    11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
    12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
    13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
    14 MFS MFS media region 3 78140160@312581808 ( 37.3G)
    15 MFS MFS media region 4 234420480@390721968 ( 111.8G)
    16 MFS MFS media region 5 351630720@625142448 ( 167.7G)

    Total SA SD Hours: 519 Total DTV SD Hours: 453 86 % Free
    Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160


    So I did the next obvious step of going from the 500G to a 2TB.

    Here is that partition map before I powered it up in the THD:

    Partition Maps
    #: type name length base ( size )
    1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
    2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
    3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
    4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
    5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
    6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
    7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
    8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
    9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
    10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
    11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
    12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
    13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
    14 MFS MFS media region 3 78140160@312581808 ( 37.3G)
    15 MFS MFS media region 4 234420480@390721968 ( 111.8G)
    16 MFS MFS media region 5 351630720@625142448 ( 167.7G)
    17 MFS MFS media region 6 2930253887@976773168 ( 1.4T)

    Total SA SD Hours: 2083 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 97 % Free
    Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

    The THD powered up and gave me the can't find the external drive screen, so I let it divorce that partition. After which it booted up like it should.

    And here is the after partition map now:

    Partition Maps
    #: type name length base ( size )
    1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
    2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@171920054 ( 512.0 )
    3 Image Kernel 1 8192@171920055 ( 4.0M)
    4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@171928247 ( 256.0M)
    5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@172452535 ( 512.0 )
    6 Image Kernel 2 8192@172452536 ( 4.0M)
    7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@172460728 ( 256.0M)
    8 Swap Linux swap 262144@172985016 ( 128.0M)
    9 Ext2 /var 524288@173247160 ( 256.0M)
    10 MFS MFS application region 589824@173771448 ( 288.0M)
    11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@174951096 ( 65.6G)
    12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@174361272 ( 288.0M)
    13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
    14 MFS MFS media region 3 78140160@312581808 ( 37.3G)
    15 MFS MFS media region 4 234420480@390721968 ( 111.8G)
    16 MFS MFS media region 5 351630720@625142448 ( 167.7G)
    17 MFS MFS media region 6 2930253887@976773168 ( 1.4T)

    Total SA SD Hours: 519 Total DTV SD Hours: 453 86 % Free
    Software: 11.0k-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

    Interesting it did not delete #17, but the % free space went back to 86% the same as the 500G.

    It appears that the THD will truly only work with 16 partitions. And that JMFS will copy & expand as long as one keeps it under 17 partitions.


    Here is partition map for a 1tb created by WIMMFS to a 2tb created by JMFS:

    Partition Maps
    #: type name length base ( size )
    1 Apple_partition_map Apple 63@1 ( 31.5K)
    2 Image Bootstrap 1 1@309550766 ( 512.0 )
    3 Image Kernel 1 8192@309550767 ( 4.0M)
    4 Ext2 Root 1 524288@309558959 ( 256.0M)
    5 Image Bootstrap 2 1@310083247 ( 512.0 )
    6 Image Kernel 2 8192@310083248 ( 4.0M)
    7 Ext2 Root 2 524288@310091440 ( 256.0M)
    8 Swap Linux swap 262144@310615728 ( 128.0M)
    9 Ext2 /var 524288@310877872 ( 256.0M)
    10 MFS MFS application region 589824@311402160 ( 288.0M)
    11 MFS MFS media region 137630712@171920054 ( 65.6G)
    12 MFS MFS application region 2 589824@311991984 ( 288.0M)
    13 MFS MFS media region 2 171919990@64 ( 82.0G)
    14 MFS MFS App by Winmfs 2048@312581808 ( 1.0M)
    15 MFS MFS Media by Winmfs 1640919040@312583856 ( 782.5G)
    16 MFS MFS media region 3 1953524159@1953502896( 931.5G)

    Total SA SD Hours: 2083 Total DTV SD Hours: 1818 96 % Free
    Software: 11.0j-01-2-652 Tivo Model: TCD652160

    When WINMFS expands the drive it creates 2 partitions. If one was to try to copy & expand this drive once more, it would probably see that as an external drive and stop at that point.

    Hopefully the above will explain why WINMFS/JMFS can/can't copy & expand a drive.

    of course, if someone wants to prove me wrong......
     
  11. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    retiredquest: I'm not at all disagreeing with you, and my intent is not to degrade all the effort you put into your testing and reporting your findings. I'm just going to report what I know, as an adjunct to what you have posted.
    ----
    I've done the same testing, with the exception of not ever using JMFS Rev .86. I have only used JMFS Rev 1.04.

    I was going to post a similar post to yours a while back, but most of the info regarding WinMFS and TiVo partition limits has already been covered in this forum, as well as the MFS Live Forums (as well as several other forums).

    I had to do my research due to the 1.26TB limit when using WinMFS on a TiVo HD with a 2TB drive, combined with my HD units only lasting for about three months after installing the "Broflovski Image" (after updating to most recent TiVo software release).

    What would happen was that the tables would build up inode entries that exceeded the maximum set (not sure how they were set, or by what means).

    This would cause the GSOD reboot loop (which you can not recover from, and lose everything, since re-imaging is required) if you used KickStart commands 57, 58, or 52, or sometimes even just upon rebooting the TiVo (especially if doing a "hard", power cord-pull, reboot). I used a Hex Editor from a forensics utility to read the drive sector-by-sector, in raw mode, seeking out the system logs.

    The logs revealed multiple tables with excess entries, and logged the successful removal of excess entries in some tables, but then one would pop an "unable to repair" log entry. Which would flag the drive as having an error, initiate reboot, and run the equivalent of a KickStart 57 at boot time.

    The GSOD would then appear, but only for a few minutes, followed by a reboot, then another GSOD, repeating to infinity (I let it run in GSOD loop mode for a full 24 hours). Again, using the hex editor, I examined the system logs, and it was repeatedly trying and failing to reduce the number of table entries to within the max limit.

    I then would run every hard drive diagnostic I had, including the mfg (WD) tools, and find that the drive had no errors. Then, I would wipe the drive and do destructive writing tests, reading tests, and read/write pattern/random/max seek tests. All reported no problems and performance well within the drive specs. Image again, repeat the above steps, three months later, try doing a reboot only, then KS 57, 58, and/or 52. Same GSOD loop result...

    What I did to upgrade to 2TB was to take a stock, never booted, THD drive, re-install it in the TiVo HD, let it update to 11.0j (now would be 11.0k), then run all the KS commands as before, do a C&DE, pull the power at reboot, then use JMFS 1.04 to copy & expand to the 2TB drive, then WinMFS to supersize. Voila! No more problems.

    I suspect that it may have helped, that, as of TiVo HD software release 11.0h, TiVo added support for larger external drives, which I think resulted in the tables getting either a higher max inode entry limit, or otherwise somehow resulting in excess entries being trimmed down without a failure while doing so. The "Broflovski Image" has software version 11.0d. Perhaps the structure of that image (which is a TiVo HD XL image that has been gutted to the point of requiring a repair operation upon the fist boot-up), may be the source of the "excess inodes/table" problem.

    Now that my HD units are running normally, I don't want to pull the drives to examine the logs (not yet, anyway).

    So, I'm fully agreeing with you on the 16 partition limit, as well as that you can just keep adding partitions with each drive size upgrade, until you hit 16.

    The ONLY thing that concerns me a bit, regarding how JMFS sets up partitions, is that JMFS doesn't add in pairs. The author of WinMFS felt that the "two partition sandwich", which I forget which other TiVo partition is in the middle of the sandwich, is the way it should be. His refusal to allow just adding one partition could not be swayed for years, and still remains so. His reasons included that doing it any other way was not "optimized" for best drive performance & TiVo performance, as well as breaking backwards compatibility with other versions of his software.

    I will say that it does seem that my TiVo HDs are slower in the menus, take longer to index Guide Cache, and slow down more when recording than I recall them being when I used WinMFS (with it's "optimized partition structure") and limited the drive to 1.26TB. But, it's a small price to pay to upgrade to a full 2TB, and not encounter the problems I did with the "Broflovski Image".

    On the flip-side, JMFS 1.04 does things the same way with TiVo Premieres, adding just one huge partition, and my four 2TB Premieres run way faster than they did with stock drives (I almost never see the "green circle of please wait", unless my broadband speed is lagging, as opposed to seeing it with every menu screen change and every page-up/page-down in the NPL).

    The only thing that irks me, otherwise, is that there are people who post that the "Broflovski Image" gives them no problems. I experienced problems using it on four TiVo HDs (two are now retired for spare parts, or perhaps to be sold on e*). I just don't understand how that can be. Two of my HD units are 1st generation revisions, while the other two are most recent generation revision units. It's not that others report differently that bugs me, it's wondering why I have problems, and they don't. Perhaps there are factors in play that only affect me (and maybe others who just don't post about it)...

    I think I covered everything. Anybody, feel free to chime in.

    Quoted portion snipped to save space:

     
  12. macmike12

    macmike12 New Member

    11
    0
    Mar 28, 2011
    Manteno, IL
    Would HDClone copy a Tivo drive?

    macmike12 - mail >at< mikealrhughes >dot< com

    Thanks for any help.
     
  13. richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Welcome to the forum. I saw your duplicate post on another thread. I'm not sure about HDClone, but the free Linux program dd or dd_rescue will clone a drive bit-for-bit, however I'm not clear about what you want to do. It sounds like you want to upgrade a TiVo, but I'm not sure which model exactly or why you want to clone a TiVo drive. There are a lot of knowledgable and helpful folks here that can guide you, but more info would be welcome.
     
  14. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Since you've posted this question in 2 different threads (and eagle-eye Rich spotted both), I'm going to go all counter-intuitive on you and suggest you post it a third time, but this time in a brand new thread of its own, in either the TiVo Help Center or the Tivo Upgrade Center.

    Tell us exactly which TiVo model you're asking about, the model (brand, size, model number) of the drive you want to copy and the brand, size, model number of the drive to which you want to copy, and, most importantly, why you want to do this. Tell us what your end goal is, and we'll help you figure out how best to get there.














    In other words
     
  15. mdp

    mdp New Member

    1
    0
    Mar 29, 2011
    I just registered to post the success of upgrade. I followed the steps in the first post and upgraded my Tivo HD with 2 tb drive. The drive I used is WD20EADS. Thanks for nice summary and steps.
     
  16. richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Congrats and enjoy your "new" TiVo!
     
  17. suggest THIS

    suggest THIS New Member

    12
    0
    Jan 12, 2005
    I had exactly the same result, except I copied a drive that I used WinMFS to make. Disappointing result, but it sounds like I could get a successful result if I copied the original drive instead, true?
     
  18. richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Absolutely. :up:
     
  19. retiredqwest

    retiredqwest Member

    164
    0
    Sep 7, 2010
    Myself and several others have copied & expanded a WINMFS drive using JMFS. In fact just tried it again over the past weekend. Did a 1TB to a 2TB.


    Don't know what you did nor what "disappointing result" means.

    Did you read the first post in this thread?
     
  20. suggest THIS

    suggest THIS New Member

    12
    0
    Jan 12, 2005
    Thanks for replying. I did the same procedure that bobby4919
    desribed in the text I quoted:

    Ran:
    1) jmfs to copy the drive
    2) jmfs to expand it
    3) winmfs to supersize it


    And I got the same results he did:

    On boot up in Tivo i got the error saying my external storage was missing. I told Tivo to go ahead and separate from the external storage. Several hours later Tivo finished booting. All my shows are there, the cable cards are paired, but i've only got 157 hours on a 2TB drive.

    I followed the directions in the first post, under "Updated 2/11/2011."

    I think the problem may be that my source drive is a copy-of-a-copy.
     

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