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Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by Tivoitis, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. Feb 12, 2011 #41 of 657
    Wulf

    Wulf New Member

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    Thanks for the info Rich. So it would be a linux command like one of these I found here?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dd_%28Unix%29

    Using dd to duplicate one hard disk partition to another hard disk:
    dd if=/dev/sda2 of=/dev/sdb2 bs=4096 conv=noerror

    Using dd to clone a hard disk to another hard disk:
    dd if=/dev/ad0 of=/dev/ad1 bs=1M conv=noerror

    Sorry, I'm not a linux guy at all. It's bit-for-bit, but doesn't copy the empty bits? And the Tivo will see the full drive capacity? I don't need to figure this out now - just curious how it would work.

    BTW, my two HD Tivos both have Liftetime, so unless something dramatic changes in the broadcast and display of HD, I hope to keep them around for a long time.
     
  2. Feb 12, 2011 #42 of 657
    retiredqwest

    retiredqwest Member

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    I'm guessing 7-8 hours to do the deed. And that is direct MB connection with a quad core and 4 meg ram.

    And yes, this is really nice for those that have upgraded the drives once before.
     
  3. Feb 12, 2011 #43 of 657
    ThreeSoFar

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    Actually, the JMFS cd uses dd_rescue, a form of dd. If you were to use ONLY the copy portion of that menu (and if the destination drive is at least as big as the source), then you should be good to go.
     
  4. Feb 12, 2011 #44 of 657
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    There you go...copy only...done! :up:
     
  5. Feb 12, 2011 #45 of 657
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    I think the question the OP asked was if the new 2Tb drive is say 15 byte smaller then the original 2Tb will any direct copy work. I think is is a good question that i don't know the answer, as all 2Tb drives may not have exactly the same number of bytes. I do know that a 40Tb drive used in a Humax 590 could not take a image from the Series 2 540 as it was a few bytes smaller.
     
  6. Feb 12, 2011 #46 of 657
    ThreeSoFar

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    My answer was clear--the new/duplicate drive must be at least as big as the older one.
     
  7. Feb 12, 2011 #47 of 657
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    IMHO your answer was far from clear as you can't tell from the specs the EXACT size of any drive, so the answer to the OP question is good luck with any replacement drive and hope it has the exact number or more bytes as your original drive or the copy will not work. When most normal people think of the size of a drive they think 1Tb 1.5Tb 2Tb etc not the 13 numbers that define the exact number of Bytes on the drive. IE a 1.19Tb drive could have 1,317,010,403,328 bytes, it would still be called a 1.19TB drive if the last 3 digits were say 298.
     
  8. Feb 12, 2011 #48 of 657
    ThreeSoFar

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    Valid point about the exact size, but clear is clear...bigger (or equal) works. That's very clear.

    At purchase, you'll have no way at all to confirm the exact number of bytes. Given a model number you can get a good guess from Google, but it won't necessarily match your drive once you get it. Once you have it in hand, however, it's easy.

    The JMFS disk will easily let you do this. There may be better ways (fdisk -l, hddparm), but my first try would be to exit out to a shell and type (and read the output of) "dmesg". In there somewhere will be specifics, to include byte count, of all drives found when the CD booted.
     
  9. Feb 12, 2011 #49 of 657
    Wulf

    Wulf New Member

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    May 18, 2005
    Thanks lessd for following up on my question. I know I can copy to a drive that is equal or bigger. Still wondering if any tool exists that lets me copy to a drive that's a tiny bit smaller. Based on ThreeSoFar's response, so far the answer is "no". Going back to the original unexpanded drive is always an option (I keep those stored for "disaster recovery"), but of course you lose any programming and updates on the current drive.
     
  10. Feb 12, 2011 #50 of 657
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Keeping the original drive on the shelf is very wise and certainly an option for imaging a replacement. I'm not as mindful as I should be, but I periodically reinstall my original TiVo hard drives I have on the shelf and I either let them run for a time or I force a connection so that they download and install the latest version, channel lineups, etc. That way they're somewhat up to date if I have to use them to re-image a new drive. Since updates aren't incremental, all it takes is once to get the latest and then it goes back on the shelf.
     
  11. Feb 13, 2011 #51 of 657
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    Manufacturer spec sheets sometimes give things like "User sectors per drive" which should be pretty precise. For example, see this for some WD AV-GP drives: http://www.wdc.com/wdproducts/library/SpecSheet/ENG/2879-701250.pdf
     
  12. Feb 13, 2011 #52 of 657
  13. Feb 13, 2011 #53 of 657
    ThreeSoFar

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    What's more important though, and also is potentially different for each and every drive, is what the OS recognizes. Each drive may have bad sectors that have been labeled as such in its own memory, the number of which may differ from one to another.

    So boot up the JMFS CD (or any Linux OS), use the linux tools (dmesg, hddparm, fdisk -l) to see those numbers for your particular drive.

    When first buying a replacement drive, the only sure fire ways are:
    • Make sure you can return the drive for a full refund in case it's a little too small; or
    • Get a drive that's slightly bigger (2.5TB in this case)--but that's getting harder to do at a reasonable price difference.
     
  14. Feb 13, 2011 #54 of 657
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    I looked at that spec sheet and it does not go down to the byte level only the Mb level so even if there were no bad sectors you still can't get the full 13 digits needed to check the exact size to compare to the original drive. As I see it you first have to purchase the drive than put it in your computer to find out if the drive is the exact (or bigger) size in bytes. This is only an issue when making and exact copy from on disk to another that are both the same nominal size.
     
  15. Feb 13, 2011 #55 of 657
    ThreeSoFar

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

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    Yup, you got it. And given the risk of difficulty finding a drive the right size that allows you to preserve your old recordings, (and as Rich often points out here), keeping that original hard drive never(or barely) used on a shelf as a source for future rebuilds is definitely a smart thing to do.

    I have pristine never booted Series 3, HDTiVo and Premiere drives on hand now. And I have mfsbackups of Series 1 and 2's on hand (and backed up), as well.
     
  16. Feb 14, 2011 #56 of 657
    rbarre1

    rbarre1 New Member

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    Feb 14, 2011
    I see lots of threads that give direction on replacing HD HDDs that have failed, but none specific to the series 2. How can I format new drive for my series 2. I took the old one out (which has failed) and it is a Western Digital 80 GB drive. Any advice?
     
  17. Feb 14, 2011 #57 of 657
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    If you don't happen to have a truncated backup of your original drive you can use Instant Cake:

    http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

    You'll need a drive larger than the original drive because IC is an expansion program. Any of the WD GP "green" drives should do nicely.

    A DIY upgrade is fairly easy, but if you don't want to do any of the legwork you can always buy a pre-imaged drive from Weaknees.com or DVRUpgrade.com (actually the same company now). Folks on ebay can often be found selling TiVo drives too.

    Hope that helps!
     
  18. Feb 17, 2011 #58 of 657
    SoKal5366

    SoKal5366 New Member

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    Feb 13, 2011
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    Hello Folks,

    You can read about my woes with my one-year-old Tivo HD XL here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=464771. To cut to short of it, alyssa has been h-o-u-n-d-i-n-g me to check out jmfs (shhh...don't tell her I said this). :) :) :) Seriously, she and dlfl have been very kind and helpful to me on my thread, but now I'm jumping here to ask my jmfs-specific questions on this thread.

    In summary, I want to copy my settings and programs off what-appears-to-be a sickly stock 1TB drive, and onto a new 2TB WD20EVDS drive. I tried using WinMFS, but a full copy was taking forever. After running through the night, in the morning WinMFS was reporting on-screen that it still needed another 29 hours to complete the copy. (This I'm sure is evidence to the bad shape the 1TB drive is in.) That's when I gave up, did a fast truncated copy from the safety backup I had made, and got my TiVo back up and running with the new 2TB drive, for the time being. But I'm still looking for a way to get my previously recorded programs onto the new 2TB drive.

    I've been reading and reading, and I'm starting to understand why jmfs might give me a better chance, although it would mean my having to admit to alyssa that she was right all along. :)

    So, I'm coming here to this thread to ask some questions and check my understandings before I try out jmfs. Of course, I'm open to any advice you may have for me, as well.

    I've created the jmfs CD and printed the instructions from the Premiere Drive Upgrade Instructions sticky thread.

    I've also read Tivoitis' Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS.

    So, my questions are......

    1. Tivoitis' instructions talk about the Tivo HD and do not explicitly mention the Tivo HD XL. I think I've read that others have had success with the HD XL, but I just want to confirm: Am I okay using jmfs with a Tivo HD XL? Specifically, for copying a stock 1TB to a new 2TB?
    2. Is it still true that I need to use WinMFS to to the supersize, or can I use jmfs's? Tivioitis' instructions clearly say to use WinMFS, but other posts say jmfs now works. I'm confused. What is the latest consensus?
    3. As I wrote in the thread that I originated, my HDD seems to be sick. Reading about jmfs's use of dd_rescue here, it seems like it might give me a better chance than WinMFS to copying my old programs off the sickly drive. What do you folks think?

    TIA.
     
  19. Feb 17, 2011 #59 of 657
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    1) I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure you're OK with the HDXL, especially with JMFS. I think a limitation of WinMFS is that it can upgrade only to original drive size + 1TB (more or less). With an HDXL that might still work, but if you had only a TiVo HD, I think you would definitely need JMFS to upgrade to 2TB. (Someone correct this if I'm wrong.) I'd use JMFS.

    2) Yes, I think you do need to use WinMFS to supersize HD or HDXL drives. I think "supersizing" involved setting a data value in TiVo's code that tells it how much space to reserve for downloading advertising videos, etc. HD and HDXL may store that in a different location from what is used by Premiere and Premiere XL. Comer should know.

    3) Whatever you use, work as quickly as you can. A failing drive can be grinding your data to dust (maybe literally) every minute that it is powered up. Still, you don't know exactly what's going on in there, and I've seen data copied off (computer) drives when I thought all was lost. Sometimes cooling helps. I've seen drives cooled with ice bags or bags of frozen peas, then popped into a docking station to copy off some more files before they can overheat again. You may have only a short time to work, so using a dock is faster than having to reboot a whole computer. The sheer volume of video data on a DVR drive makes recovery difficult.
     
  20. Feb 18, 2011 #60 of 657
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Welcome. I asked for confirmation of a TiVo HDXL 1TB > 2TB upgrade using jmfs a while back and AFAIK no one has done that. (Plenty of folks have successfully upgraded TiVo HD's to 2TB's using jmfs however.) So you will be a TiVo Pioneer. There s/b no reason for it not to work. Due to partition differences between the TiVo Premiere for which jmfs was originally written and the TiVo HD/HDXL you will likely need to use winMFS to Supersize, but that should only take a moment.

    dd_rescue is a bit-for-bit copy program that may or may not resolve data corruption issues (it's more likely a physical failure). If your drive is failing, take Mr. Matheny's advice and perform the upgrade sooner than later.
     

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