1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Tivo HD Upgrade Instructions - using JMFS

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by Tivoitis, Jan 4, 2011.

  1. Nov 8, 2011 #321 of 657
    prpjam

    prpjam New Member

    6
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    I'm stuck. Bottom line, the upgraded Tivo keeps rebooting even after using WDIDLE3.

    I have an HD Tivo (not the older, original Series 3).

    I am trying to use JMFS to upgrade to a WD25EURS drive. Using JMFS, I copied the image from the original drive, and then I expanded the new drive. All that reported that it worked flawlessly. I supersized the drive using WINMFS. That went fine, too. Then I ran WDIDLE3 and disabled the timer. Then I used the /R function to check, and the timer was reported as disabled.

    So, I put the new drive in the Tivo, and it just kept rebooting.

    I realized that I was using WDIDLE3 version 1.0, so I got WDIDLE version 1.05 and put it on a floppy. I tried that using both the /D setting and the /S300 setting. With either setting, the Tivo keeps rebooting.

    I have upgraded six HD Tivos and several more Series 2 Tivos in the past, using 1.5 TB WD green drives, so I do have experience with WINMFS and WDIDLE3.

    Of course, this is a WD25EURS drive, not a WD20EURS drive. Using JMFS, with the WD25EURS drive, the expansion did report more than 2TB for those who were wondering. I think it said 2.19 TB.

    I just bought this drive about a month ago, so its manufacture date must be in 2011.

    Any ideas on the rebooting? PLEASE!!
     
  2. Nov 8, 2011 #322 of 657
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,589
    2
    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    I think I've read here that no current TiVo models can address a drive larger than 2TB (or maybe slightly more) even if you don't expect to use all of it. It may be an OS limitation. I don't remember whether rebooting is the expected failure mode. If you can get your hands on a 2TB drive, try using that.
     
  3. Nov 9, 2011 #323 of 657
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Well, I downloaded and burned a copy of jmfs rev 104 to try to use one of the $75 2TB Seagates Best Buy had on sale last week in an S3 HD I recently acquired (had to fix the power supply first).

    I tried using WinMFS to copy a stock S3 HD (TCD652160) 's 160GB hard drive to a 2TB drive, increasing the swap partition to 1GB (1024MB), and then letting it expand when it offered to, and what I wound up with was the partitions from the stock drive (with the bigger swap), plus another partition pair with the media one being about 1TB. In other words, approximately 1TB + 160GB

    The mfsinfo of WinMFS showed the partition layout with the 1TB as the last partition, and no "apple free" partition to account for the last 800-something GB. I don't know if that's because WinMFS gave it a partition table/map that was misinformed as to the drive's true size or what.

    Tried upsizing that with jmfs 104, thinking I'd beaten the "apple free" catch, but apparently it (jmfs) choked on the reported size/actual size discrepancy.


    Okay, so took the original 160GB drive, used backup pipe restore off the MFS Live cd with the swap partition option set to 1024MB and included the expand option going onto a 500GB drive.

    That gave me the 1TB swap, 6MFS partitions (3 pairs), and no Apple Free partition on the end of the drive. Or so I thought, didn't show up when I ran pdisk -l

    Used jmfs to copy the 500 to a 2TB, and when it finally finished, I let it do the expansion as well.

    Got the original 15 partitions, a damned Apple Free partition of 4.0M, and a 17th MFS media partition of 1.4 or thereabouts TB.

    Put it in the HD, booted, got the "missing external" screen, told it to divorce it, it did, rebooted, seems to work fine, but sysinfo only shows 70 HD hours or 606 SD hours. I'm guessing what it divorced was the 17th partition jmfs added.

    Unless comer releases an update with a choose your swap size option, looks like I need a 161GB drive to act as man in the middle. There's probably a Maxtor 160GB that's just bigger enough than the WD 160GB to do the trick, but I don't have one of those handy. I've got a 200GB Maxie, maybe I could try again with a 40GB swap partition.:D


    ==========================================================

    Okay, that was the story a couple of days ago, when I first wrote that.


    Since then I tried using the 200GB with a number of different values for the swap partition and could never get rid of the Apple Free partition that screws up using jmfs.

    Tried deleting and creating partitions with pdisk, never got anywhere.


    Stumbled onto something last night that seems to be working.

    Used the MFS Live cd to copy the original 160GB drive to the 500GB drive.

    It's a Seagate with an LBA number of 976773168

    Previously I'd tried a -s option value of 1000 or 1024 for the swap size.

    This time, for some reason, I did

    Backup -Tao - /dev/sda | restore -s 999 -pi - /dev/sdb

    the important part, it turned out, being the 999

    I suppose I did it with MFS Live 'cause it seems to do it a little faster than WinMFS, either of which does in minutes what jmfs takes hours to do.

    Didn't run pdisk -l afterwards for fear of jinxing it somehow.:)

    Rebooted, took out the MFS Live cd, let it boot into XP and loaded WinMFS.

    Selected sdb, clicked on mfsinfo, it showed a big Apple Free partition on the end.

    Clicked on mfsadd, let it expand, clicked mfsinfo again to see what size Apple Free partition I wound up with, and, lo and behold, hallelujah, happy days are here again, partition 15 was the last one on the drive. No Apple Free partition and a swap partition of almost 1GB. Actually 999.0M If I'd used -s 1000 I think it would say 1000.0M and if I'd used -s 1024 I think it'd be 1.0G

    Closed program, logged off XP, powered down, hooked up 2TB drive, rebooted with jmfs cd in drive, used it to copy 500GB to 2TB (it only took several or more hours:rolleyes:), used it to expand when it finally finished, powered down, put MFS Live cd back in, rebooted, checked drive with pdisk, have 3 MFS pairs plus a single MFS partition (the 16th).

    Put the 2TB in the S3 HD, it booted right up (to the extent that a TiVo will boot right up:D), and seems to be behaving itself.

    Will record a bunch of stuff and see.

    I probably could have used WinMFS to do the original copy from the 160 to the 500, specifying 999 for the swap size, and gotten the same results, but that's an experiment for another day. Like after I fix the ignition on the lawn mower, rebuild the carb on the generator, etc, etc, etc.
     
  4. Nov 9, 2011 #324 of 657
    Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

    1,564
    0
    May 9, 2007
    So close,...
    So the moral to your post is jmfs doesn't make custom swap partitions? Is that what we learned?
     
  5. Nov 9, 2011 #325 of 657
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Well, that, and that sometimes you can get the swap size you want and still be able to use jmfs to go over 1TB on a single drive on an HD, despite jmfs's lack of any built-in swap resizing function.

    Of course it's only been 12 hours or so, so I'm not prepared to declare it an unqualified success just yet, but after beating my head against the wall for a few days over this, it's nice to have it at least look like it might work out in the long run without having had to spend a couple of years learning how to hex edit every last byte.
     
  6. Nov 9, 2011 #326 of 657
    Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

    1,564
    0
    May 9, 2007
    So close,...
    Let's hope you're good to go. When I upgraded my 2TB using WinMFS JFMS wouldn't recognize the drive. So because JMFS recognized your drive says you're off to a good start...
     
  7. prpjam

    prpjam New Member

    6
    0
    Sep 22, 2009
    I finally succeeded, and can replicate, preparing a large drive for an HD Tivo.

    At Basic Quality, a 2.5 TB drive yields 2965 hours.
    At Basic Quality, a 2.0 TB drive yields 2776 hours.

    I never could get Supersize to work in WinMFS. When I enable it, the Tivo constantly reboots. When I disable it, the new drive boots up fine and does not reboot constantly. I believe that my original failure was due to trying to Supersize in WinMFS. When I later went step by step, inserted the new drive in the HD Tivo and tested, Supersize (in WinMFS) was the only hang up.

    I had ordered a WD25EURS before the huge price increase. Now, I will have to wait until the price comes down to get more drives.

    Also, I learned that I could back up the original 160 GB drive using WinMFS, then restore it to the 2.5 TB or 2.0 TB drive using the swap size of 999. (Thank you to the person who posted that!!!!) Then, I expanded the drive in JMFS. I did not have the Apple partition problem, so I did not need the in-between step of using a 500 GB drive.

    If you restore in WinMFS, do not Add or Expand in WinMFS. Just restore the 160 GB image. Then go to JMFS.

    When everything was done, nothing that I tried could get Supersize to work in WinMFS. I had used this option many times for a 1.5 TB drive, but just could not get it to work on the 2.0 or 2.5 TB drives. I had to turn it off to keep the drives from rebooting.

    I think that the 2.0 TB drive yielded 318 HD hours, which is the same that someone else reported who said they got Supersize to work. I think the 2.5 TB drive yielded 339 HD hours.

    For the 2.0 TB drive I used a green Seagate that I got at Fry's.

    Here is another interesting point. I believe, but am not certain, that the very first time I tried to format the 2.5 TB drive, JMFS told me that it 2.19 TBs had been used. Then I finally got Comcast to pair the cable card and repeated the process, I could not get more than 2.14 TBs.

    As to the issue of WDIdle3, I did this on the 2.5 TB drive before realizing that this step was unnecessary. So, I could not undo that. I did not perform this step on the 2.0 TB Seagate drive, and it was not necessary.

    Originally, I was using WDIdle3 ver 1.0. I also tried WDIdle3 ver 1.4. The more recent version did not prevent the rebooting, one way or another on the 2.5 TB drive. Only disabling Supersize, stopped the reboot problem.
     
  8. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Where to start, where to start.

    Running wdidle 1, 2, 3, or whatever version, is done to disable intellipark, or at least set the time before it kicks in to several minutes instead of several seconds.

    The reason to do this is because if the TiVo soft boots (i.e., restarts without power being shut off), the drive notices the controller isn't talking to it, and if intellipark is working the way it comes set from the factory, after about 8 seconds of this it parks the heads and goes into a sleep mode.

    By the time the TiVo has booted up enough to query the drive, the drive is asleep. The TiVo doesn't know about this, it just thinks the drive is absent or non-responsive, so it reboots again, which turns off the controller's request for the drive to spin back up, so it parks the heads again and spins back down, so that when the TiVo's ready for it again, it's not ready for the TiVo.

    If it were a hard boot (pull the power plug and then stick it back in), the drive will be awake and spun up when the TiVo calls on it.

    Since a TiVo drive is always working, it's always awake, so intellipark isn't going to cause it to reboot. But if it soft reboots for some other reason, like the TiVo got an update and needs to reboot from the alternate partitions or something, intellipark is going to keep that from succeeding.

    The 999 was so that I could use an intermediate drive to get a larger swap size, and setting it to 1000 or 1024 left me with a little extra at the end which got turned in to an Apple Free partition, which prevents jmfs from succeeding, because it doesn't understand that an Apple Free partition isn't really a partition and doesn't need to be protected from being overwritten.

    I discovered it by accident, and still don't fully understand how or why it worked.

    And I don't understand how you're managing not to get bitten by the Apple Free partition problem, but congrats.

    Intellipark is strictly a Western Digital thing, so you're correct there's no need (or ability) to do anything to the Seagate.

    Were you trrying to use WinMFS, and then jmfs, and then going back to use WinMFS to Supersize, or using WinMFS, including Supersizing, and then finishing with jmfs?
     
  9. Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

    1,564
    0
    May 9, 2007
    So close,...
    I ran into this also with a Hatachi 2TB drive. I didn't bother posting about it since I seemed to be the only one having the problem.
     
  10. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,589
    2
    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    It is interesting that you were able to get a TiVo to use a 2.5TB drive, since TiVos (running their current version of Linux) aren't supposed to be able to address any drive larger than 2TB (or maybe 2.19TB). But it would be more of a breakthrough if somebody could get a TiVo to actually use all of a 2.5TB or 3TB drive.
     
  11. dcstager

    dcstager 1st Gen Tivo Owner

    573
    2
    Feb 16, 2002
    Skagit...
    Can I use the JMFS boot disk to create a 2 TB drive from a winMFS created 1 TB drive that will work in an original Series 3? I'm wading through all this, but if anyone has a quick answer, i.e., yes/no it would help me before I start taking things apart and giving it a try.
     
  12. Soapm

    Soapm Active Member

    1,564
    0
    May 9, 2007
    So close,...
    No... Just use WinMFS for the original S3. JMFS is for Tivo's after that one.
     
  13. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    I think the latest thinking at this point is that you can't use all of a 2TB drive in an original S3, and I'm not sure if you can even use less than that if it's on a 2TB drive.

    Somewhere around here, probably in the

    Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

    in the S3 forum

    there's some discussion about which models can use what size drive or how much space you can get maximum with or without adding an external, although the majority opinion seems to be that adding an external just increases your chances of drive problems.

    At least the original S3 isn't limited to just the approved WD externals the way the HDs and the S4s are.
     
  14. sathead

    sathead Member

    173
    0
    Jan 12, 2008
    Great thread!
    The OEM 160GB drive in my TiVo-HD was becoming erratic (it's mfg date was Sept 2007) so I followed the instructions on page 1 and on the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ page (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784) to use a spare WD GreenPower 500GB drive I had on hand. Prepped the drive with the Wdidle3 and HDDScan (for acoustic management), imaged my OEM drive with Mfslive (run as admin in Win7), then wrote that image back to the new 500Gb drive- popped the new drive in the TiVo and it booted right up and has been flawless since last night.

    Big thanks to the thread starter!! Bought that 500GB drive before the floods for under $50 :)
     
  15. Feb 6, 2012 #335 of 657
    Spl7

    Spl7 New Member

    14
    0
    Jan 21, 2012
    Well, I have a 2tb drive that I'm trying to use. So far, I've found:
    - the USB/SATA adapter I have doesn't work on the 2TB drive, only the smaller one. As some posts have noted, it seems to have to do with the electronics on the adapter. Caveat emptor
    - I've done both winmfs and mfslive to create a 1.2TB image that works. No problems in operation.
    - I've tried using jmfs to copy the 160gb over to my 2tb disk, and then used the expand portion. After the long initial boot, it seems to work. But I have had some odd behaviors (thinks like hdmi cable "Viewing not permitted") but I'm not sure if thats the disk. One thing I have seen is that it creates a 1.7TB partition, and unless the new software can handle it, that is too large. So, I then tried:
    - Using winmfs to create a 160gb image, a 1TB image, etc (lots of permutations) on my 2tb disk, and then tried to use jmfs to expand and create the last partition. My thinking being that we need to have less than 16 partitions, and no partition should be larger than 1tb.

    Its the last scenario that has me stumped. Jmfs just doesn't seem to work with any disk that winmfs creates. If I use jmfs to copy over the image, its happy. But if I use winmfs to copy it over, it just fails the expand every time.
    Thoughts on where to go from here?

    Oh and final note. Somewhat handicapped. My native box is a laptop; have to borrow a desktop with SATA connections to do most of this playing.
     
  16. Feb 6, 2012 #336 of 657
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Can you get hold of a 1TB drive to use for a day or so?

    What I wound up doing was copying the 160 to a 1TB (and increasing the size of the swap partition in the process) and expanding (adding partitions 14 and 15) with WinMFS.

    For some reason MFS Live will leave a little extra bit of space at the end of that 1TB drive, which gets read as an Apple Free partition and defeats jmfs, but WinMFS uses all of the space.

    Then I used jmfs to copy from the 1TB to a 2TB and then create the 16th partition, which was less than 1 binary TB.

    The key is to not have an Apple Free partition (which is how the Apple Partition Map and stuff that can read it interprets unpartitioned space), because jmfs sees this as a partition and creates a 17th partition.

    The HD sees this as a screwed up external drive, makes you divorce it, and that leaves you with a 2TB drive of which you can only use 1TB.
     
  17. Feb 6, 2012 #337 of 657
    Spl7

    Spl7 New Member

    14
    0
    Jan 21, 2012
    Thanks for your reply unitron. Yeah, a 1TB drive would make things easier, but no, no access. When I tried the jmfs on the drive, the expand just failed; didn't even create something with the extra 17th partition.

    When I created the winmfs 1tb drive, it creates only 15 partitions, so I thought it would be ok. But for whatever reason, JMFS doesnt even try to process it.
     
  18. Feb 7, 2012 #338 of 657
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    MFS Live has a thing called

    pdisk

    and

    pdisk -l

    will show Apple Partition Maps

    (that's a lowercase L after the hyphen)

    It also has a thing called mfsinfo that gives useful info.

    WinMFS has mfsinfo, and it's version displays the partition map as part of its output.

    Clues can be found that way.

    Unfortunately, I don't know nearly as much about how jmfs works as I'd like to.
     
  19. Feb 7, 2012 #339 of 657
    Spl7

    Spl7 New Member

    14
    0
    Jan 21, 2012
    I could swear that I had done a winmfs 1tb upgrade, then did the msinfo and plist and saw only 15 partitions, no "apple free" ones after. I'm in the process of doing a winmfs 1tb, let it do its download to see if it cleans up any pointers and structures, then I'm going to double check with jmfs.

    But all that aside, assuming that there are no extra hidden APM partitions, am I just barking up the wrong tree? And can any one tell me what it is about a jmfs copy that makes this work, vs using winmfs to copy/create the disk?
     
  20. Feb 7, 2012 #340 of 657
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    WinMFS only knows how to do expanding by adding MFS pairs, and TiVos seem to have a 3 pairs per drive limitation. The 160 already has 2 pairs, so that's 1,840GB left to fill going onto a 2TB. TiVos also seem to have a 1.1TB per partition limitation.

    MFS pairs seem to be one fairly small partition containing I'm not sure what and one much bigger one where the actual shows get recorded. So there's no way to use all of that 1,840GB as just a single MFS pair.

    TiVo also has a 16 partitions of any kind per drive limitation. If you copy the 160 to a bigger drive and add an MFS pair, that leaves you with 15 partitions, not counting any free space that gets counted as an Apple Free partition.

    Unlike MFS Live and WinMFS, which both see an Apple Free partition as something they can overwrite with another MFS pair, jmfs sees it and preserves it as a valid partition.

    If you can fully fill a drive with those first 15 partitions, jmfs can copy that to a larger drive and create a single MFS media partition, which becomes partition 16.

    If you go straight to a 2TB from the 160 with jmfs, I don't know if it can create the 3rd MFS pair, partitions 14 and 15, and then add a single one or not.

    What I do know is that if you do it that way you are stuck with the original size swap partition, and I didn't want to settle for that, which is why I beat my head against the wall until I figured out how to use WinMFS to fully fill a 1TB and then copy that with jmfs to a 2TB and add that 16th partition.

    I spend a lot of time with MFS Live trying swap sizes just a little bigger or just a little smaller than my intended goal of 1GB, trying to keep from getting an Apple Free partition at the end, but it never happened. After about the 7th or 8th time I think I even heard it snicker at me.

    Somewhere there's a thread where comer (the jmfs guy) talks about developing it, but it gets a little too far down into the weeds and makes my head hurt.
     

Share This Page