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TiVo HD DVR - No Video Output

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by hankinsohl, Oct 23, 2013.

  1. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    I have a TiVo HD DVR TCD658000 which was working fine awhile ago; now, though, it no longer generates video output.

    When I power up the unit, the green power light comes on and the hard drive/drive fan starts. However, no video output is generated; the attached TV screen is black. There's no post/startup at all - just a black screen.

    Also, when I push the format button on the front of the unit, no format indicating lights light up; finally, when I use the TiVO remote, none of the lights flash on the front screen.

    I'd like to know what might be wrong with my TiVO and whether or not it's worthwhile fixing. The TiVO has a lifetime subscription.

    In case it matters, I used to have a hard drive expander attached to this unit - currently no hard drive expander is attached. I'm pretty sure that this isn't related but I thought I'd mention it.

    One last observation - upon closer inspection, it looks light the green power light is very rapidly flashing - it's not solidly lit. Might this be a power supply issue?

    Thanks in advance for your help.
     
  2. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

    6,724
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    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Yes, the power supply is suspect.
     
  3. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    I pulled the cover off my TiVO and looked at the power supply. Visually, all of the capacitors appear to be fine (no bulging/leaking fluids).

    Before I spend $100 on a new power supply, is there a good way to test the power supply to verify that it's bad? I have a multi-meter but I've no idea really how to use it to test the power supply.

    Thanks in advance for any help.
     
  4. unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    First of all, you should use the yellow jack on the back to connect to some sort of video display that offers that same yellow jack input.

    That's composite, the lowest common denominator of video connections, and if you're going to see anything, you'll see it on that.

    You want to set that meter to DC Volts 0-15, or 0-20, or 0-25, something like that.

    Take the black lead, which should be plugged into the - jack, and either alligator clip it to the chassis on the side opposite the power supply, or find a hole on that side you can friction fit it into.

    Then the red lead should be plugged into the meter's + jack.

    Stand so that the hand that's going to hold the red lead is along a line with the place on the motherboard where the power supply plugs on, and the other side of your body is even further away from the power supply than that, and stick that hand in your pocket when making the measurements.

    You can stick the red lead's metal tip down into the individual holes the wires run into in the plug that plugs into the socket on the motherboard until it makes contact with the metal tip crimped onto the end of the wire.

    That's called backprobing, cause that's the back of the plug.

    The front, of course you can't get to because it's plugged into the motherboard socket.

    Since it's what's called a switch-mode power supply it has to have a sufficient load connected to work properly.

    The yellow wire is supposed to be +12 Volts, the red wires 5 Volts, and the orange wire, if it uses that, should be 3.3 Volts.

    Check those three voltages with the combo data and power plug pulled out of the hard drive and then check them again with the hard drive plugged back in.

    I doubt your readings will be exactly 12 or exactly 5 or exactly 3.3, but they should be close, either above or below, and shouldn't change much with or without the hard drive connected to power.

    Report back.
     
  5. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    I tested the power supply as described in the previous post.

    With the hard drive disconnected, the power supply emitted a clicking sound. The voltage reading on the yellow wire fluctuated quite a bit, reading between say 5 and 8 volts or so.

    With the hard drive connected, the clicking sound went away and the yellow wire read 11 volts.

    Are these readings normal? Is the clicking sound expected? Should I have read 12 volts with the drive connected?

    Thanks in advance for your help.
     
  6. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    You should have gotten a lot closer to 12 than to 11.

    The clicking sound is probably the supply turning on and off.

    Ordinarily it would do so because it didn't have enough of a load (or way too much of a load), but ordinarily the motherboard would be sufficient, at least for a while.

    It's not absolutely impossible that something on the power supply circuit board other than bad caps is responsible, but bad caps are at the top, middle, and most of the bottom of the charts.

    The power supply board should say either AcBel or 3Y Power Technology. let me know which one and also the model number just in case there's a 3rd model I don't know about, and then I can make you a list of the ones that are group among which the bad one or ones will be.

    They probably won't all be bad, yet, but doing them en masse like that will be sure to get the one that is or the ones that are.

    Edit to add:

    I assume the 5 V and 3.3 V rails measured okay with and without the drive connected?
     
  7. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    Thanks for the help Unitron!

    The orange wire reads 3.3V and the red reads 4.7V with the drive attached.

    Here's a picture of the large capacitor:
    [​IMG]

    And one of some small capacitors:
    [​IMG]

    The capacitors look OK to me but I suppose that they might be damaged with no visible indication.

    The part number is 3Y Power P/N: 38S0158312GP Rev. 1
    [​IMG]

    Note: Elsewhere on the board "CP-1319R2" is printed - I'm guessing that this later is actually the power supply part no.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    Is it possible that my hard drive is bad and/or has unreadable data on it and that this is causing the problem?

    Since, when I power my TiVO I'm not seeing any video output I assumed that the hard drive is OK - I read somewhere that even with a bad hard drive you'd see startup/post video output - I'm only seeing a black screen with wavy lines.

    The reason I'm focusing on the hard drive is that I used to have a drive expander hooked up to this TiVO. I simply removed the drive expander and expected that my TiVO would detect this and offer to reformat the hard drive. Instead - just a black TV screen.

    Thanks once more for any help.
     
  9. ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

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    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    If it was the drive, the Tivo would be rebooting instead of blank screen. The power you tested should be getting 5 and 12 volts.
     
  10. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    Does anyone have a list of the capacitors I should replace for a CP-1319R2 power supply (TiVO TCD658000 HD DVR)?

    If a mouser project exists for this can someone post a link to it?

    Thanks in advance for your help.
     
  11. ciper

    ciper New Member

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    Nov 4, 2004
    With no drive attached the tivo will show the welcome screen for 5-10 seconds and then a solid grey screen.

    You forgot the picture of the caps on the other side of that big heatsink, near where all the wires attach. Those are usually the first to start dying.

    I just replaced the capacitors on the same style of power supply. I significantly overrated all of them because I was lazy and thats what Frys had in stock :cool:
    5x 10v 2200uf replaced with 25v 3300uf
    2x 10v 1000uf replaced with 25v 2200uf
    1x 16v 1000uf replaced with 25v 2200uf
    1x 16v 470uf replaced with 16v 1000uf
    These are all the important ones on the DC side of the power supply.
     
  12. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    In the post above, I was measuring voltages with the power supply disconnected from the motherboard.

    Here are the results with the power supply connected to the motherboard:

    No Hard Drive Attached:
    Yellow - 12.3V
    Red - 4.9V
    Orange - 3.34V

    Hard Drive Attached:
    Yellow - 11.9V
    Red - 4.9V
    Orange - 3.34V

    Do these voltages look OK?

    Just for grins, I inserted an M-Card into my TiVO and hooked it back up to my TV. When power was applied I still get the black screen with squiggly lines.

    And, I then tried powering up with the hard drive disconnected. Same exact behavior - black screen with squiggly lines.

    The only indication that the power supply might be bad is that the green light on the front of the unit is pulsing quite rapidly - from a distance it appears to be solidly lit, only upon close inspection is the pulsing noticeable.

    At this point I'm guessing that the motherboard is hosed. Any other thoughts?
     
  13. ciper

    ciper New Member

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    Nov 4, 2004
    Those seem fine. Its basically a small computer ATX power supply. The limits for a regular ATX power supply are
    12v spec 11.40-12.60
    5v 4.75-5.25
    3.3v spec 3.135-3.465

    How are you attaching it to the TV?
     
  14. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    Sep 17, 2013
    >> How are you attaching it to the TV?
    I'm using an HDMI cable. This same cable works fine with my other TiVO so the cable is definitely OK.
     
  15. ciper

    ciper New Member

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    Nov 4, 2004
    Connect it using composite or component and see what you get
     
  16. sfhub

    sfhub Active Member

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    Jan 6, 2007
    I've read some people complain the have connector issues where they need to "lift" the HDMI cable plug to make proper connections.

    If you are debugging always use svideo/composite as you'll always get video during startup (unless something is broken)
     
  17. sfhub

    sfhub Active Member

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    Jan 6, 2007
    Are you sure upping the capacitance is a good idea? It would seem to change the electrical properties the circuit was designed to operate with.

    The upped voltage is fine since that is the tolerance of the capacitor and normally wouldn't affect the circuit.
     
  18. ciper

    ciper New Member

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    Nov 4, 2004
    If you follow the traces on the bottom of the power supply you will see that it's an extraordinarily simple design. Many of the capacitors are ran in parallel to each other and there are a couple spots on the board where a capacitor was supposed to go and was never installed.
    The only problem I can imagine is that since these are larger there will be less airflow between them.
     
  19. hankinsohl

    hankinsohl New Member

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    0
    Sep 17, 2013
    I attached the TiVO to my TV using the component cable which came with the unit.

    Here's what it looks like:
    [​IMG]

    I'm pretty sure my motherboard is fried since the power supply voltages check out and I'm not getting any video output. Does this diagnosis seem right or might it be the power supply/hard drive after all?

    Thanks again for the help.
     
  20. unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Changing the capacitance that much is not a good idea because it puts extra load on the power supply--the higher the capacitance the more charge it can hold which means more current being drawn during the charge portion of the cycle, current that has to be supplied by the switching transistors and current that's being diverted from the drive and motherboard.

    In other words, it does indeed "...change the electrical properties the circuit was designed to operate with."

    Going up a step in voltage rating isn't the end of the world, but when I say step I mean the next industry "standard", not "as much higher as you feel like".

    The next step after 10V would be 16, and then 25 after that, then 35, and then 50.

    Electrolytic capacitors need to be subjected to voltage below, but near, their rating to keep the electrolyte properly formed.

    I wouldn't replace a 10 Volt cap with anything higher than a 25 Volt rated one (at the same uF) except for short time test purposes.
     

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