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Tivo has crossed my line...

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by destek, May 12, 2009.

  1. May 12, 2009 #81 of 293

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    So what is the alternative? Have Tivo tell the advertisers "No, we don't want your money. We can just make the monthly subscription rate higher, and completely remove Lifetime Subscription offers, because in the long run those hurt us. We know we won't get any new customers because we'll have to charge so much for the service without your advertising dollars, but we can squeeze what we can out of our current subscribers who love us because we removed the one line of text when they hit pause, and the one line of text in the Now Playing List."

    Gimme a <expletive deleted> break!
  2. May 12, 2009 #82 of 293

    reneg Member

    Jun 19, 2002
    Sheesh, don't give them any more ideas.
  3. May 12, 2009 #83 of 293

    dgf123 New Member

    Nov 29, 2008
    Springfield VA
    Why should we give you a break? And why should we give tivo a break? Why should there be an alternative? Find out who your customers are and what your customers want and give that to them for a mutually agreed upon price. As costs go up you may need to raise your prices but you should never change the product you sold in the first place with out renegotiating the price.
  4. May 12, 2009 #84 of 293
    Phantom Gremlin

    Phantom Gremlin New Member

    Jun 20, 2002
    I disagree.

    I think TiVo is a stupid company in that their fearless leader isn't innovating, he's merely doing what he is familiar and comfortable with, viz advertising. Here are some snippets from his bio:

    • Chairman and CEO of PRIMEDIA, Inc. ... the leading targeted media company in the United States. ... PRIMEDIA published some 200 magazines, operated more than 400 websites, and owned a wide range of television and video businesses
    • President of NBC Cable and Executive Vice President of NBC
    • co-chairman of the Arts and Entertainment, and History Channels
    • responsible for overseeing many other cable channels including Court TV, Bravo, American Movie Classics, Independent Film Channel, the National Geographic Channel, and numerous regional sports channels

    What does all that have in common? What pays the bills? ADVERTISING, ADVERTISING, and more ADVERTISING!

    They say a fish rots from the head down, so we shouldn't be surprised that this is the direction that TiVo is taking.

    P.S. Upon re-reading the above, I think that Rogers is TiVo's John Sculley. The antithesis of Steve Jobs. We want technical innovation; instead he wants to sell us sugar water.
  5. May 12, 2009 #85 of 293

    SGR215 New Member

    Jan 20, 2004
    For some reason there's a Tivo fan club that likes to immediately put down anyone who says anything negative about Tivo; even if it ultimately might make Tivo better off in the long run by listening to these ever-growing complaints.

    Tivo is great and I'm a huge fan but it doesn't make me any less of a fan to point out when Tivo makes what I feel to be mistakes. Obviously, you're entitled to disagree with me but these childish insults only further prove my point. I pay my Tivo bill just like anyone else. These ads, in my opinion of course, cheapen Tivo's image.

    As far as cable companies inserting ads; you're forgetting that Tivo's primary function is to accomplish two things;

    a. Record shows with the ability to watch them later

    b. Avoid commercials (AKA Advertisements)

    All of us purchased a Tivo because of these two most important features; or at least originally when Tivo was first released. Ironically, most of those who insult people who question these ads probably have the 30-second hack activated; not because they enjoy randomly skipping scenes in shows but because they want to avoid advertisements.

    I personally purchased my Tivo to avoid ads and have no intention of ever clicking any ads displayed. Because of this we should be given the option to disable these ads. Perhaps even make it somewhat difficult to do so such as having to call Tivo and request it. This way Tivo can be certain those of us who request an ad free service would have never clicked any of these ads in the first place. (After all, if you're willing to call and request no ads the likelihood of you clicking any of the ads in the first place is slim-to-none.)

    Anyhow, I respect others who disagree with me so please don't continue to belittle those of us who disagree with your POV.

    Regardless of everything said above, I love my TivoHD and so far the ads haven't "crossed my line". Now if they start introducing popup ads in the middle of the screen during TV shows then I'll have to consider abandoning ship.
  6. May 12, 2009 #86 of 293

    Adam1115 20,000!!! TCF Club

    Dec 15, 2003
    Denver ish
    I'm trying to, but these threads keep popping up every few days, much more annoying than the ads...
  7. May 12, 2009 #87 of 293

    Turtleboy Well-Known Member TCF Club

    Mar 24, 2001
    Ft. Lauderdale
    SGR215, if everyone thought like you did, then what's the financial motivation for networks to make and broadcast tv shows?
  8. May 13, 2009 #88 of 293

    bschuler2007 Frustrated owner

    Feb 25, 2007
    Mission Accomplished. You think that is by accident?
    Get the word out..
    Tivo is an ad box! :D

    Personally, I think Tivo has all of our f'kin mail addresses.. why not send out a god damn catalog of Waist-Cinchers and Bad Tv show ads or spam the fk out of my e-mail address. PLEASE! But stay the f'k off my menus where you don't belong.

    TV's came out with commercial sound filters.. because cable companies were blasting the sound during commercials and pissing off customers. Why? Monopoly. But Tivo is no monopoly.. We may not get filters, popup blockers, or any other ad defense measure. BUT we will get better products.. Moxi, AMD, Sony, et all.. the end is nigh for Tivo and I'm coming. U know they smell blood in the water.

    Oh.. and those who do not know.. Windows 7 has HD TV capabilities.. checkout AMD Fusion Media explorer and think HD. That OCT release is looking like a good time to jump ship.
    Buy my Book, How TIVO killed is customer base, on sale now on crapbooks.com
  9. May 13, 2009 #89 of 293

    MickeS New Member

    Dec 26, 2002
    Bored now.
  10. May 13, 2009 #90 of 293

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    Thanks SGR215 -
    I'd like to comment on some of your statements. Yes, there is a Tivo fan club. I would think it's to be expected at a "Tivo Community" website. Being such a site, I feel those that come here only to complain come as antagonists and instigators. What is expected to be accomplished by coming to this forum and complaining? At the top of every page at this site is a Tivo Community logo that states "This site is not part of Tivo, Inc." So who are they complaining to that can make a difference?

    I have two users in my ignore list (see my signature) that I feel fit in this category. The following is one of the user's first post at this site (posted in 3 separate forums on the same day):
    This is the other user's first post:
    Feels pretty antagonistic and very negative to me. I'm reminded of the scene in one of the Diehard movies where Bruce Willis wearing a sandwich board first meets Samuel L Jackson. Of course people are going to take offense. And just like the Tivo ads, I ignore them, too.

    Anyway, I do have the 30 second hack enabled, and maybe that is why I don't find the ads so intrusive. If and when I do pause, most of the programming I watch do NOT include the additional 1 line of text. Some programming does. I'm with you: Tivo has not crossed a line with me. I don't watch the ads on TV; I don't click the ads on Tivo. I don't love ads. I do view them as a necessary part of any business. It is possible that Tivo may get an advertiser of a product I'm interested in, and I may view such an ad. Maybe they could partner with WD and advertise harddrive replacements?
  11. May 13, 2009 #91 of 293

    SGR215 New Member

    Jan 20, 2004
    Simple, that's not my problem and I don't care if your prehistoric business model is suffering. I know, that sounds blunt but it's the reality of the situation. Allow me to clarify.

    If I were in the business of making and broadcasting TV shows then I'd have to seriously consider how to maximize revenue streams while maintaining customer satisfaction. Some ways of doing so is non-intrusive advertising or, to be more specific, placing ads that also work their way into the plots of shows but not in an intrusive manner. For example, a popular TV personality might drive a BMW M3 and on some occasions we might see him do something entertaining yet subliminally advertise the car at the same time. (I.E. Spin the wheels and do donuts while showing off the engine noise.) I don't know about you, but I love cars and this would certainly make me consider purchasing one if I were in the market for a sports car. This might not provide the same astronomic profits the executives are used to but unfortunately, times change.

    Realistically though, I'm still profitable. You just have to figure out how to maximize that profit without annoying me. For example, many people used to pirate TV shows because there was no way to obtain them legally online. Now, many people purchase them on Itunes. Why? Because their business model evolved with the times and provided a reasonable price for the TV show. DRM is still of a concern however, and unless this changes their profit margins will continue to suffer. Luckily they are beginning to realize this.

    Broadcasters must become creative with advertising and evolve with the times. In your face "WATCH THIS AD NOW OR YOU'LL BE SORRY!" advertising simply isn't working anymore. Telling me that if I don't watch your ads the end of TV is near won't work either. From a consumer standpoint, and again playing devils advocate, I don't care if they evolve or not. If they annoy me too much, treat me like I'm a thief, etc I'll go elsewhere until they learn their lesson. If they don't then I'll deal with it when that time comes.

    Perhaps what broadcasters really need to do is quit whining and actually develop innovating new ideas to profit off their consumers rather than just annoying in-your-face ads? (I.E. Pause menu ads) I know that I've developed several websites with this type of philosophy and while I'm not driving a Ferrari I do make a decent side income from it. Some users even give me money simply because they enjoy the site and I ask nicely. Imagine that. Anyhow, this is strictly my opinion on the situation so take it for what its worth. But contrary to popular belief, there are ways to make money from me. :)
  12. May 13, 2009 #92 of 293

    SGR215 New Member

    Jan 20, 2004

    I honestly don't see anything wrong with those posts.

    As for why they must make them here? Simple, it's common knowledge Tivo frequents this board and actually makes decisions based on comments on this board. Just look at some of TivoPony's requests. As a matter of fact, the new "Tivo Search" beta includes a link to this very forum asking for suggestions/comments.
  13. May 13, 2009 #93 of 293

    webin New Member

    Feb 13, 2008
    As a side point, I read through the email correspondence you had with Tivo PR... and I don't see where Ms Loebig said "please share my email on forums so everyone can spam me." In fact, she indicates a desire to set up a feedback system for the express purpose of removing the potential mail bomb such feedback might induce.

    You know her email address for the express purpose of dealing with your particular complaint. Publishing her email address on a forum and telling people to email her with their issues is out of line, and counterproductive to the goal of providing customer feedback concerning ads (as it bypasses established (and soon to be established?) feedback channels).
  14. May 13, 2009 #94 of 293

    Gavroche Member

    May 26, 2007
    State of...
    I guess I must be a moron, as you say, because I have no idea what your trying to say, let alone in relation to my post.

    Are you talking about some esoteric economic concept that if we paid less for our tivo subscriptions but accepted more of the current "click here" style ads that it would cost us more in the long run because like mindless sheep we'll just go out and buy whatever the ads are telling us to?

    Uhmmm... er... hmmm...
  15. May 13, 2009 #95 of 293

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    Rather, you commented on how things are the way they are because there is so little competition. I explained why there was so little competition. So basically there is this choice:

    1) As things are now.

    2) Pay more (generally) for DVRs; that gets more companies to compete for those dollars; that prompts each to improve their offerings, to have a better chance of getting those extra dollars people are magically willing to pay.

    Customers are, generally, too cheap for their own good.
  16. May 13, 2009 #96 of 293

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    Mass-market sales.
  17. May 13, 2009 #97 of 293

    bicker bUU

    Nov 9, 2003
    Threads like this always amuse me, as they highlight the inherent immaturity that is the major driver of many American consumers. There seem to be two types:

    First, we have the naive consumer, who engages the process, is affected by it, and conforms to what has been set forth as their role in it. These are the folks who watch commercials and buy products and services as a result. They are the engine that drives industry to serve all of us.

    Second, we have the angry consumer, who rails against the process, casts it as a conspiracy against them, and blames everyone else for what they don't like about it, instead of acknowledging reality.

    Stop deceiving yourself: If you think that the profitability of the products and services you consume is not your concern, then you're allowing yourself to be that second type of immature consumer.

    Stop your childish whining: You can come back and whine after there are other companies doing what you would have TiVo do, and making loads of profit off of following your advice. Until then, learn to accept the world as it is. You can work to make it better by rewarding (read: paying a premium -- extra money -- for the products and services of) companies that do what you like. Complaining about companies not offering to you what no other companies offer to you is ridiculous -- literally worthy of ridicule.
  18. May 13, 2009 #98 of 293

    donnoh Member

    Mar 7, 2008
    I haven't confirmed this, but does the "more about" and/or ads in this space which I have yet to see, work if you use dial up instead of broadband?

    This may not be an option for those of us that use broadband features like Netflix or download movies, but the ones that don't this may be an easy way to do away with this annoyance.
  19. May 13, 2009 #99 of 293

    ZeoTiVo I can't explain

    Jan 2, 2004
    so you would rather more product placement in the shows you are actually watching versus in menus you can actually ignore. Also you believe that somehow advertisers will magically get suitably subtle.

    You know what shows do product placements well now - reality shows like American Idol or The Apprentice. How a serious drama like Law & Order or Lost or Fringe could do well with product placement without turning TV into a true wasteland is a little beyond me.

    so when they find the polar bear on lost the Polar bear is drinking a Coke?. Perhaps Volkswagen paid good money to show off the beatup VW microbus on Lost. ;)
  20. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    Feb 28, 2001
    Absolutely. But you have it exactly backwards. TiVo went and got people experienced in advertising because that is what TiVo wants and has wanted from day one.

    TiVo has always "promised" us more ads - all of its early company publicity stressed that was a major goal of TiVo.

    That's what they need to do to survive. Selling machines and software is not going to be enough; TiVo has amply demonstrated that in the past 10 years. They would need another $5 a month from each of us for each sub we have (even lifetime) if they want to make an average profit.

    If it wasn't for the potential of ads, TiVo wouldn't exist today in its current form. The main reason investors have stuck with TiVo, and companies like Comcast, Cox, and DirecTV have partnered with TiVo, is that there's a potential pot of gold in the targeted ads that TiVo will allow. It's that investment money that has paid for everything new out of TiVo since the S2.

    Consumers have always valued ad skipping as a major feature, but TiVo has never advertised it as a feature, or even suggested we should buy a TiVo because we could skip ads. Until the recent HD boxes, the outside of the box didn't even offer a mechanism for skipping ads! (They prominently mentioned Rewind, Pause, and Slo-mo; they didn't even list FF, much less 30-second skip). There is no betrayal here; TiVo never promised us no ads.

    We've escaped ads so far just because TiVo has failed at becoming large enough to offer an advertising market, IMO. Now with large deployment by Comcast, etc, (caused by acceptance by them and the networks that things have to change), TiVo is trying out its ad delivery mechanisms.

    I don't like the ads, but nobody has come up with a better mechanism for TiVo to make a profit.

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