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TiVo Elite: And the Spontaneous Reboots Continue...

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by Wendy in NY, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. Mar 8, 2014 #221 of 246
    CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    2,350
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    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    I too saw the out of memory condition. OutOfMemoryCrash in the logs.

    But I also saw way too much other info, that could be a potential cause for a restart.

    I wish we could access the logs in a browser with a URL and the IP address, so we could copy them down and compare.
     
  2. Mar 9, 2014 #222 of 246
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    If anybody tries running the long SMART tests on an upgraded drive (in a base Roamio), and runs into the elapsed time being several days past the "guesstimated time" the TiVo states, with no end in sight (I'm at 2876 minutes elapsed time on my second attempt), while aborting and checking the SMART attributes shows a perfectly healthy drive, please let me know.

    Has anybody ever confirmed that these (in the TiVo) tests work on a Roamio upgrade drive (actually complete)?

    As far as being able to copy and share the logs, that can be done with the drive outside the TiVo, and connected to a PC, using a disk/hex editor.

    I fear this may be the same (or similar to) scenario I have seen happen on TiVo HDs, Premieres, and now (possibly) Roamios, where if you hit a certain number of total recordings, it seems that the TiVo isn't able to cope, and will start rebooting, just like described, until you offload and delete the folder, or just delete it, without offloading first.

    I have a few shows that I set to record everything, and record in SD, which have always caused issues like this when the number of recordings exceeded 300 for a folder. A reboot would sometimes prune the number back down to 300 (from a number like 367). Then I would not see a reboot again, until that folder ticked back up to some other random >300 number of recordings. If a reboot alone wouldn't prune folders down to 300 recordings, a KS52 always would, every time, on before-Roamio platforms.

    I have only had my Roamios long enough to get to this point. I had a blind faith that the better hardware in the platform would be able to cope.

    This is a nightmare issue, for me, because I'm running on upgraded drives. TiVo has turned me away for support in the past for running upgraded drives (they figured it out, I never tell them). I also couldn't achieve the archives of recordings I do now, on stock drives, of TiVos past...

    There is one TiVo in the house (a base Roamio) that isn't doing this... It is a unit that my family, but not me, uses, and they never have more than a total of 50 programs, in all, and often there are more like a total of a dozen, or less. They never save anything, or try to record and archive years worth of a program like I do. I've often wondered why I upgraded that one to 3TB, since they never need more than 500GB, then realize it gives me the ability to dig shows out of their Deleted folder, in the event that I have bad recording, missed recording, or forgot to set up a new season pass for a new program, etc... The point (in this paragraph), is that this not-rebooting unit never has recordings on it for long, and nobody stockpiles episodes of anything to watch later (or just to have in case they want to watch them a year from now)...
     
  3. Mar 9, 2014 #223 of 246
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    1,588
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    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    I guess you mean running the SMART tests via KS54. I've never run KS54 or the SMART tests explicitly. But are the SMART tests similar to the DST (Device Self-Test) that is (I believe) the short test invoked by the WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic program? I've run those tests, short and long. I believe that the long test has occasionally hung but then completed when rerun, so I may have sometimes blamed glitches in the test-bed system. Of course if the test-bed system is the TiVo, that would be less reassuring.

    Do you really mean KS52? According to WeaKnees, that is an Emergency Software Reinstall. What you describe sounds more like something that would happen as a result of KS58 or KS57 or maybe KS54. In any case, it's a scary possibility that would seem to indicate a blatant bug in TiVo's software. The fact that Roamio hardware is faster or better probably wouldn't help.

    So it might not matter how many programs accumulate in Recently Deleted, as long as no group folder exceeds ~300 programs? Can I assume that you keep groups (by series name) turned on? Might turning groups off circumvent the problem? I'm sure I've never had 300 shows in a folder for one series anyway.
     
  4. Mar 9, 2014 #224 of 246
    pninen

    pninen New Member

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    Jun 25, 2003
    Did you ever consider opening a support ticket at tivo.com ?

    I believe we all need to become more proactive. TiVo's first line support is so bad, we need them to see a volume of similar complaints to make them escalate.

    I've been discussing my frequent random reboots with them, and so far all they want to discuss is my signal levels and whether I have the TiVo plugged into a good outlet. I get the feeling I'm all alone here. Obviously there are many other people seeing random reboots.
     
  5. Mar 9, 2014 #225 of 246
    CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    2,350
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    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    Margret responded to my email and has turned on additional logging on my TiVos. So hopefully they will find the issue.

    My Roamio Pro rebooted again today, Sun, March 9, 2014 @ 1:12 PM - Arizona Time (PDT) - 8:12 PM (UTC)
    No one was using the DVR at the time, TV was off.

    The Roamio Pro had already uploaded the logs,
    Last Service Connection was 1:33 PM - Arizona Time (PST)
    Last VCM Connection was 1:37 PM - Arizona Time (PST)
     
  6. mattack

    mattack Active Member

    20,734
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    Apr 9, 2001
    sunnyvale
    I've had my Premiere 4 reboot I think twice in the past few weeks.. once during Once upon a Time in Wonderland.. Not a HUGE deal, since I haven't watched ANY eps of that show yet.. but it will be a pain when I 'catch up'.

    I thought the hard drive might be going bad, then saw mentions of these threads
     
  7. CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    2,350
    6
    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    Margret responded again and said they have identified the issue in my logs. So anyone else with rebooting issues should contact her, and ask that additional logging be turned on and email her with details and time of every random reboot.
     
  8. Wendy in NY

    Wendy in NY New Member

    75
    0
    Jan 9, 2012
    New York
    I started with the 2 tuner Premiere XL back in May 2011. Never had any problems. In October 2011, I upgraded to the 4 tuner Elite. After 5 months of having it, spontaneous reboots started to happen--be it while recording, watching live TV, or while doing nothing since I was at work. That was box #1. I would call to complain and they'd send me another box. This went on with EVERY box and always within 5 months after having it. By the time I got up to box #5, I called it in and I got the Roamio Pro for nothing, a clean swap for my troubles. Yeah well, my Roamio Pro spontaneously rebooted for the first time while I was watching live TV sometime last month. Of course it happened after 5 months of having it. Today, while I was at work, it spontaneously rebooted again at about 3:15ish PM EST. I know this because only one show is recording at that time and I noticed that it was listed 2x in the folder with a chunk missing right at the time it rebooted so I had the first 15 minutes, lost about 8 minutes or so, and then the 2nd listing resumed at about 30 minutes in.

    When I was having the problems with the XL boxes ( and I'd get refurbished and brand new boxes), I was told by a tech that maybe I need to rearrange my furniture in my living room. What?
     
  9. Wendy in NY

    Wendy in NY New Member

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    Jan 9, 2012
    New York
    Cox, how did you contact Margret? Can I have her email address if that's what you used to contact her? Thanks!

    Wendy
     
  10. CoxInPHX

    CoxInPHX COX Communications

    2,350
    6
    Jan 14, 2011
    Phoenix, AZ
    margret at tivo dot com
    https://twitter.com/tivodesign

    I though maybe it was the daylight savings time guide data, as someone else suggested, because I had not had a reboot in 3 days.

    But late this afternoon the Roamio Pro rebooted again.
     
  11. Wendy in NY

    Wendy in NY New Member

    75
    0
    Jan 9, 2012
    New York
    Thanks Cox! yeah, mine rebooted for the 2nd time today at about 3ish. I think I'm cursed.
     
  12. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Try this for those reboots (at your own risk):

    Warning/disclaimer: If you brick the TiVo doing this (endless reboot looping cycle), you will lose everything and have to re-image the hard drive using one of the many fine free tools and images available from the friendly and helpful folks on TCF. I recommend backing up your SP list with KMTTG if you want a fast and easy way to put your SPs and ARWLs back on once you have re-imaged if this unfortunate, but possible, scenario happens to you.

    Before you do any of this, please see this post from TiVoMargret: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469 (which was posted after I posted my first revision of this guide).

    1. Make a list of any scheduled recordings that aren't part of a Season Pass or ARWL - You will need to re-schedule/add them back later.

    2. Make sure you have AT LEAST 4 hours before anything is going to record (that you care if it does).

    3. Reboot with the option to "Clear Program Information & To Do List".

    4. Unplug the network cable (unplugging the coax-in, as well, can't hurt either - especially if you are using MoCA)

    5. Babysit while it does the clearing.

    6. Upon completing it will reboot.

    7a. (On pre-Roamio models only) Try a KS52, for a lesser risk of a reboot loop situation. Even though this is called an "Emergency Software Reinstall", and does re-install the current software to the alternate partitions, this option is designed to detect if a KS57 or KS58 routine should be run on the next pass/boot, and schedules them, if needed (when it detects issues). Some of the reason why a TiVo sometimes seems faster after a software update, is due to the routines, integrity checks, and cleanup processes invoked, to help insure software updates complete without issue.

    7b. (On Roamio models, which no longer support KS52) Initiate a KS57 & KS58 back to back.

    7c. Added note for 7a and 7b: Quite some time ago, TiVo made the decision to not automatically perform basic drive data integrity checks (before the Roamio was even on the radar), and chose instead to only do basic checks after every XX reboots - I forgot how many it takes. This was done to speed up the boot/reboot time.

    8. Let it boot up, then reconnect the coax and networking cable.

    9. Connect to the TiVo service (and expect no recordings until connection has completed and all data loaded).

    10. Add back in the items from the list in step 1.

    11. Give it a few days and report back on what happens.

    Please don't send me death threats or cuss me out if your TiVo bricks itself (cycling between GSOD and Welcome-Starting Up). This is always a risk when using KS commands.

    Note: You can always leave out the KS commands and see if just purging and reloading the guide data helps. SPs repopulate, so they will re-schedule any SP & ARWL associated recordings, once the guide data has downloaded, loaded, and been fully processed.

    Good Luck!
     
  13. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    3,501
    18
    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    Mine did a reboot last night for the first time I can remember. If it starts happening again I will certainly try a clear program and todo after an SP backup to see if it works. Not going anywhere near the kickstarts on a 2TB disk unless I suspect other disk problems though.
     
  14. chiguy50

    chiguy50 Member

    461
    4
    Nov 9, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    I hope I am not jinxing anything, but FWIW I have had zero reboots on either my Premiere Elite or 2-tuner Premiere in recent memory, although there have been occasional spontaneous reboots in the past.

    Given the recent wide-spread occurrence and frequency of these reported reboots, I assume it is a systemic TiVo glitch (possibly firmware-related) and not due to an individual DVR's defective operation. But there could be some factors specific to the individual set-up or usage that is contributing to the rebooting. I hope that TiVo addresses the issue and provides not just a resolution but feedback on the cause.
     
  15. Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
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    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    I'm guessing they were concerned about air flow or lack thereof; TiVo gets too hot.
     
  16. chiguy50

    chiguy50 Member

    461
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    Nov 9, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Ahhh, ask and ye shall receive! :)

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469

     
  17. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Recent random reboot problem (multiple platforms) - TiVoMargret responds!

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10039469#post10039469

    Great to hear!

    However, if this "service interaction issue" causing the reboots caused any corruption of the databases/structures as a result of the primary cause, my advice in this post http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=10038994#post10038994 may clean up any lingering issues.

    If us TiVo users didn't have TiVoMargret, this issue would likely be repeatedly denied by the TiVo CS Reps, as even existing, go on for months, and we'd all be stuck doing the CSR scripted support dance, which usually includes finding any way to blame the problem on anything except TiVo (the product and/or the company).
     
  18. akalion

    akalion New Member

    5
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    Sep 22, 2010
    And I was just thinking how my Elite has not rebooted in the past several days. Previous to this, it was rebooting once or twice a day which started a month or so back! Knew it was not the hardware! Glad to see they worked it out!
     
  19. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
  20. b_scott

    b_scott TiVo Fan

    1,535
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    Nov 27, 2006
    chicago, il
    my Tivo Premiere XL randomly rebooted in the middle of HBO's Real Time on Friday night.
     

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