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Tivo abandoning us cord cutters?

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by jgantert, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. Aug 22, 2012 #81 of 103
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    But will it be worth TiVo spending the extra money to create a box that has four OTA tuners and four cable tuners to cater to a small percentage of users?

    Between their agreements with the cable companies and the retail users, OTA is a small percentage of their market.

    And their projections already estimate that the bulk of their growth over the next few years will be from cable companies. And the boxes for the cable companies won't have OTA. So will it be worth it for TiVo to create a completely different box than what they create for the cable companies for their shrinking percentage of retail users.

    For me, I just want the next box to have six tuners. Then I can sell my two Elites and have two TiVo Minis as well as keep my two tuner Premiere for OTA only.. I should hopefully be able to get by with those. And I'll be able to get down to using just one cable card, saving even more in CC rental fees from FiOS.
     
  2. Aug 22, 2012 #82 of 103
    buscuitboy

    buscuitboy New Member

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    I think also part of the reason the newer TiVos are digital cable only and don't offer OTA inputs is because cable companies & TiVo sort of secretly agreed to have it this way so it would NOT be an option for someone thinking of "cutting the cord".

    Cable companies saw this potential problem slowly growing so basically told TiVo to lose it or they won't play nice with them in the long term and could threaten their relationship. TiVo really needs them & didn't want to get in a tussle like they did with DirectTV years ago so they played nice and lost the OTA option for future Premieres.

    I understand all the hardware related reasons too and I'm sure that played a factor as well, but this is just my little additional theory, but who truly knows the whole reason
     
  3. Aug 22, 2012 #83 of 103
    tedrik

    tedrik New Member

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  4. Aug 22, 2012 #84 of 103
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    I hope you're wrong; I hope TiVo has more integrity than that. I guess we'll find out when the Series 5 comes out. If no Series 5 model has OTA capabilities, then it will be apparent that TiVo has indeed sold out to the forces of darkness. TiVo is small, and I guess it could be understandable that they might succumb to such extortion. But I hope they understand (as has been pointed out) that they need to stay in all their various markets and not set themselves up to be flagrantly screwed by dictatorial cable companies. They should also remember that the OTA market is growing.
     
  5. Aug 22, 2012 #85 of 103
    zob

    zob New Member

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    I purchased the original Series 3 and a premium cost with a lifetime warranty at that time I was spending around hundred dollars per month for satellite, when I dropped it; it took me 10 months to recoup my investment. Within a year I was about $200 ahead. The units with a lifetime warranty do not cost that much anymore. For OTA you would definitely come out ahead dropping cable or satellite, using something like Netflix or Hulu Plus. 99% of the cable companies, Dish Network and DirecTV are very expensive options. If you watch a lot of TV and have about $12-$1400 a year to spend, it may be worth it to you; it's a personal choice every person needs to decide, since they pay the bill.
     
  6. Aug 22, 2012 #86 of 103
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Lifetime warranty or Product Lifetime Service?
     
  7. Aug 24, 2012 #87 of 103
    agredon

    agredon New Member

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    Since it has 4 Tuners (2 Cable + 2 OTA), it would be nice if we could use all 4 at once...instead of only 2 at a time. This would probably work almost as well as having 4 Cable Tuners, since pretty much any time I need more than 2 tuners, at least 1 or 2 of the shows I'm recording are OTA.
     
  8. Aug 24, 2012 #88 of 103
    agredon

    agredon New Member

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    You failed to consider that OTA stations typically all broadcast their best content at the same time (8-11 PM) and don't typically have encore presentations like many cable networks do. Cable stations give you alot more flexibility in when you watch [or record] a show. ABC Family for example will show certain popular shows at 8 PM, then an encore presentation at 10 PM, with another showing the following week at 7 PM. Plus, they'll run marathons a few times a year where they rerun all the episodes from the current half-season. OTA OTOH will run a show at 8 PM on a certain day and then if you're lucky maybe a rerun 3-6 months from now and that's if the show doesn't get cancelled before the end of the season, in which case there will probably NEVER be a rerun EVER.
     
  9. Aug 24, 2012 #89 of 103
    agredon

    agredon New Member

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    I highlighted and underlined the reason. Cableco DVRs are utter pieces of junk. Problems I've noted with Comcast's "HD DVR" [by no means an exhaustive list since I rarely use it]:

    1) Can only record about 20 Hours of HD. That would mean it has a 120 GB hard drive, a drive so small I haven't seen one in the stores since about 2008. I couldn't believe it when I got Comcast in 2011, set up some season passes on their DVR, and the next day went to the list of shows and it said that it was 95% full. I now use it only for SD.

    2) If you have multiple season pass recordings scheduled at the same time, it will not let you cancel more than one. For example, let's say I have 1 show at 9 PM, and 2 shows at 10 PM. Since it has 2 tuners, one of the shows will be marked as not recording due to conflict. For our example, let's say it's the 9 PM show. So, I look at the shows and realize I've seen both of the episodes at 10 PM. So, I cancel the first 10 PM show. The 9 PM show now goes back to "will record" as it should. But, if I try to cancel the other 10 PM show, it uncancels the first 10 PM show. Apparently, it can't tell the difference between a show that won't record due to a conflict and one I manually cancelled.

    3) It lost its guide once [that I know of] and it took almost a full day to get it back, during which time I couldn't schedule anything to record.

    4) I have never been able to get their online scheduler to work. When I first logged in, it said that I didn't have a DVR. it said this for a while, and then later on it "found" my DVR, but said that it had no recordings (it had plenty of recordings). Despite the shortcomings of TiVo's online scheduler, at least it works.

    5) You cannot transfer recordings and watch them on your laptop. This is true of EVERY Cable or Satellite DVR I have ever seen. Only TiVo allows you the freedom to watch your recordings on your laptop and/or archive shows on your PC, unless you're unlucky enough to be stuck with Time Warner [who from what I've heard copy protect EVERYTHING so that you can't even use MRV, much less TTG.]

    6) The box belongs to Comcast. You have to return it [losing any recordings you have] to Comcast if you ever leave them. I already went through this with Dish Network and Uverse. If you want to save your recordings to DVD [using a DVD Recorder,] you basically have to start 3 months ahead of time and be constantly recording shows onto DVD...just to get ahead of all the new stuff being recorded. Thankfully, about a month before I switched from Uverse to Comcast, I bought my TiVo and moved all my broadcast channel (CBS, NBC, FOX, ABC, CW) season passes over to it (using an OTA Antenna)...which sped up the process a little [as it reduced the number of new recordings each day on the Uverse DVR.]
     
  10. Aug 24, 2012 #90 of 103
    Puppy76

    Puppy76 Active Member

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    I'm near a medium sized city, and have probably 12-14ish stations, and was CONSTANTLY recording more than 2 at the same time. Right now I wouldn't buy a new Tivo for that since I already have 3 tuners with my Tivo HD XL + Series 2, that more or less gets the job done, but this past season it was SUPER common for me to have 3 or 4 shows I needed simultaneously.

    In fact I had to give up watching Supernatural (I'll rent it on Blu Ray instead) because it conflicted with...actually technically FOUR other shows, but one of those is rebroadcast. But still, I could use 4 tuners easily.
     
  11. Aug 24, 2012 #91 of 103
    alex_h

    alex_h New Member

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    I have used OTA for HD for 10 years, with DirecTV for everything else, mostly because the first OTA HD tuner I bought on clearance supported DirecTV and decided to give it a try, and back in Boston, cable was horrible. I just cut DirecTV a week ago.

    For us, DTV's fights with Viacom/Fox were a pain... she lost her shows, and while we have OTA HD, apparently the "season passes" I setup via the mobile scheduler were grabbing the DTV signal, so while the show came in, I just got "this channel is off the air." Off season, we used to watch lots of the crap on the "cable channels," but with a few kids, we just don't watch that much TV.

    Does Premier's OTA tuner suck? I have no idea, my antenna is a dual bowtie I bought at radio shack 7 years ago, I get all the major AND minor networks, plus some strange ones like Ion that seems to just show a few shows in 8 hour blocks, kind of neat, we missed two seasons of Leverage (forgot to set back up the season pass after a hardware swap), and catching up there. I get all the networks I want, plus some stuff I didn't know exist. We're in South Florida, so most of the other OTA channels are Spanish language, no interest to us, but lots of programming.

    My two AM-21s are for sale on Amazon.com.

    I had lots of movie channels, then I got Netflix, and always had 3 DVD/BRs at home, and didn't need movie channels to try to DVR, I can only watch one at a time... I cut back to basic. Now with Hulu + OTA, what do I need DTV "content" for?

    The DVR hardware was crap, when it broke, I lost all my programming, I had to schedule a technician to come out... totally aggravating.

    I bought two premiers on Tivo.com Clearance for $100/each, I pay $28/mo to Tivo, $8/mo to Hulu when my 6 months is up, and $8/mo to Netflix (which I had anyway, we streams kids programming occasionally).

    Why not Lifetime? I remember when Tivo was hot (and my ReplayTVs before that), new hardware came out, and you felt married to it for Lifetime. You can sell/upgrade, do an upgrade program, whatever. I had a 12 month commitment, plenty of content, and I can decide what to do then.

    My biggest issue is the Tivo interface. I want Hulu/Netflix (at least Hulu) integration into My Shows. The Hulu/Netflix app take forever to load. My issue with the Apple TV was that I loved the interface, they didn't do Hulu (they opened it up the day after my Tivo's arrived), and I had to pick by content provider, not by content. Tivo's SEARCH is perfect, Tivo's My Shows (formerly Now Playing) is not. I LOVE that Tivo Suggestions caught a show, two clicks later I'm streaming older stuff on Hulu.

    Just fix the My Shows so I don't have to launch Hulu/Netflix to see my Queues and it's PERFECT.

    I wish Tivo was more "open." I can get ESPN3/WatchESPN for sports on my Comcast Internet feed. I just can't get it on my Tivo. I might buy a few Rokus or whatever to watch sports (note, @ $89 for the Ethernet top of the line one it's less than 1 month with Comcast/Dish/DTV) and other stuff. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty happy with my media choices and hardware choices.

    I didn't want to go back to DirecTivo and the crippled Tivo. I don't need junk.

    If I could get a USB BluRay player for my Tivo, I'd pay a pretty penny for it, just to ditch my awful BR's slow ass interface. But I can deal.

    My wife told me my complaints were asinine. She is happy, she can stream from Netflix without switching inputs, remotes, etc. A few weeks ago, she had to turn on the DVD player, switch TV over, wait for it's slow interface to load, find the Netflix app, blah blah blah. Now she hits Netflix, waits 60 seconds for the queue to load, and she's all set.

    I am disappointed that Tivo isn't "kicking ass and taking names" compared to the rest a few years ago, and Hulu seems to have some issues with stability, but the content is there, the price is great, and the lack of aggravation is better.
     
  12. Aug 24, 2012 #92 of 103
    alex_h

    alex_h New Member

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    Fort...
    I'd like the multi-room viewing to be more fluid, not sure why I have to click on an icon and switch back to an SD interface to grab a show from the other room, seems kind of silly with my Gigabit network, but these are minor issues.
     
  13. Aug 24, 2012 #93 of 103
    freerule

    freerule New Member

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    Forgetting its s/w limitations, isn't TiVo's S3 significantly better in build quality than any other digital TiVo ever offered for sale?
     
  14. Aug 24, 2012 #94 of 103
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    It was also supposed to be unsubsidized when it came out. It retailed for $800. It weighed a lot compared to my Elite boxes. But I'll take a Premiere any day over an S3. Although two of my s3 boxes from 2006 are still going strong.(I sold the other one) My girlfriend has two of the three S3 boxes I got in 2006.

    Sent from my HTC ReZound using Forum Runner
     
  15. Aug 24, 2012 #95 of 103
    Puppy76

    Puppy76 Active Member

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    I've got an HD XL and certainly wouldn't complain about build quality in the slightest. I mean it seems well built, mine's...3+ years old now I think, and going strong except for possibly a hard drive thingee a few months back.
     
  16. Aug 24, 2012 #96 of 103
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    The original S3s where meant to be high end HT equipment. They had an OLED screen, which was rare at the time, a piano black case, a much nicer remote, THX certification, etc... They also cost over a grand with lifetime. Their only issue was that they required two CableCARDs. The M-Card specification was still being developed when they were released so only S-cards were available in the wild. TiVo tried to develop the unit so it could be upgraded via software to support a single M-card when they became available, but a last minute change to the M-card specification prevented that from ever happening. I think if that had worked the resell value of a S3 would be higher today. But because they require two cards, which carry a monthly fee, they're less attractive to buyers.

    Dan
     
  17. Aug 24, 2012 #97 of 103
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    There also is the issue of not being able to self upgrade to a 2TB hard drive like you can with the Tivo HD & Premiere. Of course being able to buy a preconfigured 2TB hard drive now off ebay medicates that issue to some extent.

    In any event in my opinion the original Series 3 is the best Tivo for OTA which might be their highest and best use at this point.
     
  18. Aug 24, 2012 #98 of 103
    mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    This seems to be more detail than has been said in other threads.

    Do you know exactly the reason? Is it literally hardware as in the cablecard plug or wiring? That obviously isn't fixable. Is it firmware *in the cable cards*?

    If it's any software on the Tivo, it would seem to be do-able, but from the other threads I got the impression it was pretty much impossible. (Sure, with enough software, even some hardware limitations can be worked around..)

    Obviously it's never gonna happen, I'm just curious about more lower level technical reasons why it was either impossible or "really really difficult".
     
  19. Aug 25, 2012 #99 of 103
    tenthplanet

    tenthplanet Member

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    Very true, out in here in L.A. once you factor out the weird low power stations, foreign language channels and shopping channels you are down quite a few channels. I'd would say the ratio is worse than cable.
     
  20. freerule

    freerule New Member

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    Thanks for the concise overview. S3's requirement for an additional M-Card cost me $2.20 for two S3s. Their excellent digital tuners pull in all seven major Vancouver, BC OTA channels (50 miles away) with an indoor antenna.

    As this is only my 3rd Forum post readers will have to Google the comparison chart link below to compare S3 with current Premiere DVRs:

    www3.tivo.com/products/tivo-premiere/premiere-compare.html#tab

    (then scroll down and click::))

    Compare TiVo Premiere to older TiVo DVRs
     

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