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Thoughts on Xbox One & Tivo

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Ron DeGumbia, May 21, 2013.

  1. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Same!

    I had a 4x2 matrix and put everything in my closet and was using HDMI over Cat5 baluns, and it never really worked right. Between the HDMI extenders and the 4x2 HDMI switch to two rooms, HDCP content was a crapshoot.

    Since I'm switching back to TiVo from DirecTV, I have reactivated my two Premieres in the two rooms where I had my "master closet" content available. With the Xbox One, in the living room I can play literally everything I want either on the Xbox One or the TiVo, and my TV can play content through Plex for the (decreasing amount of) downloaded video I want to play that XBone won't support.
     
  2. rhettf

    rhettf R3T1CAL

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    Interesting, I don't use a matrix switch and never had issues like the ones you mentioned.
     
  3. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    My receiver has 0 hdmi inputs. It's from like 2000. I use optical for my PS3 and that's the only device hooked up to it right now. There was no HDMI when I got my receiver. And the benefits of upgrading are pretty small right now. I prefer to switch inputs on my TV rather than a receiver because my TV let's me have different video settings for the different sources which is great for gaming and movies vs live TV.

    Mostly, I just don't want my TV coming through my big speakers and subwoofer. TV should be low-key and quiet so I don't wake up my kid or sleeping wife. Movies go through the big speakers. That's how I like it.

    I'll upgrade receivers someday to one that let's me stream audio from an android device via an open format that doesn't require a special app from the company that makes the receiver. Probably something like Miracast. Until then, there's no rush.
     
  4. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    I watch football in stereo all the time. Well, mostly, I go to games or watch them at Bw3's. But when I watch football at home, it's in stereo. It is not at all horrendous.

    I don't want to be a dick, cause I have those pet things about which I am a snob (mostly coffee and beer) but if you think watching media in stereo is "horrendous" then it's definitely time for a "check your privilege." It's perfectly fine.
     
  5. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    Did some research and found out the optical out on the Xbox One will only do DTS and Stereo. It's EXPECTED they will add 5.1, but they haven't confirmed it. Which means I'm hosed on using it to watch BD movies. So, I guess my PS3 will stay as my BD player for a while still. Shame.
     
  6. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Wait, when watching a DVD or Bluray or playing a game or anything else where the audio is generated by the XBone (IE: not passthrough) it won't output Dolby Digital?

    Does that apply only to the optical out or to the HDMI as well? That doesn't seem right at all. Sounds like maybe things are getting mixed up with the passthrough limitation (which a fix is in "beta" and is specifically related to a problem with passthrough)
     
  7. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    We had this same issue when the ps3 first came out and it wouldn't do streaming multichannel audio. You could only output multi channel PCM. Everyone was freaking out, but myself and the audio experts were laughing because it didn't really matter one bit whether the DD signal was transcoded to multi-channel PCM in the ps3 or in your receiver. I may have confused what's happening with the XBone. Is it changing it to stereo or multi-channel PCM? If stereo then yeah, that would suck.
    This I agree with though.
     
  8. rhettf

    rhettf R3T1CAL

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    Dolby Digital is coming post launch. This was a SW scheduling issue pure and simple, and I know people are disappointed, but we will have it.

    Anyone with an HDMI receiver should be fine, as we pass the uncompressed 5.1 and 7.1 through HDMI as well as DTS. Even if you have a Dolby only HDMI receiver (which I'm not sure exists), you will still get 5.1 or 7.1 sound since those receivers should accept uncompressed surround.


    http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=90673295&postcount=240

    Why do you need DD instead of DTS?

    Thats what night mode is for or headphones :D

    In my experience playing audio through my TV (my AVR was broken for a couple weeks) bothered my neighbors and playing stuff through my receiver didn't. The audio that comes out of a TV are from speakers that tend to change the dynamic range and for whatever reason it's a frequency that passes through walls much easier.

    There is some great benefits with HDMI like TrueHD or Master Audio. Its incredible how much more fidelity you'll get and you will get the ability to hear more at lower volumes.

    If you only have one optical input will you not be using the big speaker with the xbox one either?

    I totally get your understanding, just sharing my experience. It was crazy to me that my TV was more obnoxious than my full range speakers.

    You could just get a chromecast, which will add miracast for $35 to any hdmi input.


    For the most part this is true BUT if you have a really high end receiver it could do a better job of decoding the bitstream than the ps3. Though most people don't spend 1000K+ on a AVR.

    While I am fine with PCM I noticed when my receiver gets PCM I can't run different Audio processes. I like to have THX Cinema, THX Games, and night mode for various situations.
     
  9. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Birmingham, AL
    I'm still confused.

    If you were to play a Bluray on the XBone that is Dolby Digital only, not DTS, what do you get out of the HDMI port on the XBone? Uncompressed PCM?

    Honestly as long as it sends all 6 (or 8/9 as the case might be) channels of audio, I couldn't care less if it's uncompressed PCM or Dolby Digital. If it forces things like movies down to 2.1 stereo, then they have made a serious error when it comes to their priorities.
     
  10. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    I'm not 100% sure but this is my understanding... the Xbox One will generate DD (or whatever format you want).. but only output it via HDMI. The optical will output only stereo or DTS. There are no other options for the optical port. Which is what I use on my receiver.
     
  11. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I think the confusion is coming from what the pass through port can do and what the XBox itself can do. I "think" that when you play games or play a BD you'll get DD 5.1 (or 7.1) sound. The issue is related to the pass through port. Because they are overlaying sounds into the live stream they have to decode it and then reencode it for output. It sounds like they don't have a DD license for that so the sound is downmixed to stereo PCM. Although there is some beta option to recode to DTS, so they apparently have a license for DTS.

    In my experience with Dolby and DTS I can understand why. Getting a Dolby license is a HUGE PITA! They make you submit everything to them for certification and then you have to resubmit every time you update the software. This is why very few devices can actually encode DD audio. And software packages that offer it, mostly high end, include it as a plug-in because then they only have to re-certify when they update the plug-in and not every time they make a change in unrelated software.
     
  12. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    *nods* this is what I was assuming. It seemed obvious it would be added. It just means I can't sell my Ps3 yet, since it's my only BD player that will output DD via optical. Not a catastrophe.

    I need DD instead of DTS because my receiver is from 2000 and as far as I know can't handle DTS. There is no DTS stamp on the receiver nor have I ever seen a DTS setting for the listen mode. It's stereo or DD 5.1.

    Yeah, not a fan of headphones unless I'm at my PC and even then only when I need the mic and I really just don't need 5.1 for watching Agents of SHIELD or an NBA game, you know? It's overkill. It's more important that I can hear my wife talking to me from the kitchen.

    So, we're stuck in a small house because my wife is about to finish medical school this year. So until her residency was set, we couldn't move (and her residency gets set in March, I think). We have one kid and another on the way. The next house, wherever it is, is going to have a basement with a dedicated media room and full floor between us and the sleeping kids. At that point, I will buy start shopping for a new receiver that can do HDMI and Miracast and run all of my audio through it. And we'll probably have a smaller TV upstairs that just runs through the TV speakers.

    In the meantime, in our tiny house, it's just not feasible for me to spend time, effort or money on a sound setup that I can't run 90% of the time due to sleeping kids.

    Tomorrow, no, I won't be running my Xbox One through the receiver. No place to hook it up with the PS3 occupying the optical. It's just going to have to wait until the optical can do DD and then I'll sell off the Ps3 to a friend and let the Xbox One take over the media duties. I assume the Xbox 360 is a brick once I move my Xbox Live sub over to the One, so I'll probably see if any of my co-workers wants to give me $50 for it. It's a first edition that's had a RRoD repaired on it, so it's not worth much.

    Woah what? Since when does a chromecast do miracast? It's dial with a browser. I'm not aware of it enabling miracast functionality. Do you have a link for that? I have a chromecast on my bedroom TV. I love it. Sadly, my free netflix ran out, but just in time for my HBO Go to get added.
     
  13. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    Ah, so the audio coming from a source material (BD disc or game) will already be encoded in DD 5.1, so there's no need for the license?
     
  14. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Birmingham, AL
    I don't think it's an audit question, and it's still not 100% clear when this issue applies. There are a lot of situations that aren't clear:

    1. Dolby Digital out through the optical port, source: HDMI passthrough
    2. Dolby Digital out through HDMI out, source: HDMI passthrough
    3. Dolby Digital out through optical port, source: Bluray, XBone game, Netflix app on XBone
    4. Dolby Digital out through HDMI out, source: Bluray, XBone game, Netflix app on XBone

    Obviously the first two are not working properly because of the "Dolby Digital for passthrough" is in beta. The question is what is the situation with 3 and 4. And, if DD is not available in situations 3 and 4, do you still get 5.1 multichannel audio, or do they mash it down to stereo?
     
  15. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    According to what I read, the optical will not output DD no matter what the source is. But the HDMI will output whatever you need it to, except for pass-through.
     
  16. rhettf

    rhettf R3T1CAL

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    Apr 5, 2012
    Oakland, CA
    It's actually very clear: There is No Dolby Digital Output from the Xbox One AT ALL. TV will be transcoded to DTS or Uncompressed Stereo OR 5.1 (if surround sound beta is on).

    There is No passive pass through which would allow DD to get through instead the xbox touches all the video and audio.

    HDMI will not output DD either. The box just doesn't support DD currently. Which is insane since its the most common format.

    These boxes are coming in hot, with unfinished software that is for sure!
     
  17. rhettf

    rhettf R3T1CAL

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    Apr 5, 2012
    Oakland, CA
    Its overkill for diner, drive in's and dives, reality TV, and HGTV shows BUT I completely disagree with your two examples. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and sports are why there is 5.1 on TV Channels.

    Why would watching The Avengers in 5.1 not be overkill but S.H.I.E.L.D is? They both have action set pieces that are great in 5.1

    Why couldn't you have TV in 5.1 and turn down the volume when you need to hear someone or not bother them? If your speakers are calibrated correctly you won't lose the fidelity. I can easily hear my girlfriend from another room while watching TV.


    I live in a 900 square feet apartment. So I get what you're saying but my point is that you could actually hear more and disturb people less with a proper 5.1 with night mode.

    Totally understand not wanting to spend lots of money but with some proper calibration you could make things simplier.

    If you need another optical input you can buy this really simple switcher for 7 bucks:

    I use to use this beauty when I had only one input: http://www.monoprice.com/Product?se...&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CN-wjd_49roCFU7ZQgodOlYANg


    Sorry I was really just combining dial/miracast since 90% of people don't use the little extra thing miracast does over DIAL. If you want a chromecast like sized device that does miracast here is one for $50 bucks:

    http://www.amazon.com/Display-Dongl...=UTF8&qid=1385072732&sr=8-2&keywords=miracast
     
  18. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Here is a quote from Microsoft's Albert Penello...

    So for HDMI out you'll get all audio formats. For HDMI pass-through there is a "beta" feature to enable DD but it doesn't work with all TVs/Receivers so it's disabled by default. Optical out is where the problem is. If you use optical out you will not get DD audio, only stereo or DTS. This is a problem because a lot of high end headsets use optical connections with built in DD decoders. For those you'll have to set output to stereo and depend on ProLogic to get fake surround sound.

    Unfortunately the whole headset experience is going to be crippled on the XB1 at launch. Not only is DD sound not working on the optical port but they wont have the chat adapter available until February.

    It really does feel like it was pushed to market before it was really ready to meet the holiday deadline.
     
  19. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Birmingham, AL
    The PS4 is half baked too. Given that these consoles have a 10 year planned lifetime, I'm ok with them not being perfect out of the gate.
     
  20. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Given that they've had 8 years to work on them I'm pretty surprised they're so half baked.
     

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