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The Tivo Mini lives....

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by dave13077, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    My TiVoHD been very very good to me. Why upgrade?

    HDUI? meh.
    More Efficient? Meh.
    MRS? (To another TiVo) Meh.
    More tuners? Maybe.
    TiVo Stream? Maybe.

    Mini (At a decent price, including lifetime) Yep!

    On it's own the Mini doesn't push it over, but cumulatively with the benefits above could finally push me to upgrade.
  2. mdbundy

    mdbundy New Member

    Oct 5, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    I'm with you, Sully. I have a TivoHD and have no compelling reason to upgrade at this point. I'm happy with on two-tuner DVR in my family room. But if there were an affordable way for me to put an extender in my basement, master bedroom, and guest room? I'd upgrade to a premier and buy three minis.

    Though I'm not sure that I'd be willing to pay monthly subs for the privilege. I don't have lifetime on my TivoHD now but have been thinking about giving TiVo up bc the value really isn't there fore anymore.
  3. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    TiVo has disclosed that the churn (cancellation) rate on TiVo HD is much higher than the TiVo Premiere so I think you'll are the exception. TiVo Premiere, even with its sluggish UI & mediocre OTT apps, has higher customer satisfaction metrics and lower churn than the TiVo HD. I firmly believe that the Mini coupled with the Stream make an upgrade from a series 3 platform even more compelling for the vast majority of consumers. The bottom-line that's been also communicated from TiVo is that the Stream and Mini drive subscription fees buy attracting new customers and lowering churn of existing customers.
  4. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    Jan 23, 2005
    If the Mini comes out only workable with the TPXL4 or TP4 than the market at this point will not be that big unless TiVo puts together a package of the TP4+mini+Moca,+ a single service fee or package Lifetime. I am assuming the Mini has a built in Moca. Spending time speculation on the price is a waste of time IMHO.
  5. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    Correct. Mini has built-in MoCA.

    TiVo sold 30,000 Premiere boxes at retail last quarter (10/31/2012). I can easily see TiVo sell 10,000 Retail Mini's per quarter after launch. I expect there will be an initial bump in Mini sales to fulfill demand associated with existing Premiere 4/XL4 owners. This also doesn't account for a possible increase in retail demand now that a viable whole home solution is available.
  6. innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

    Aug 25, 2001
    Remote management options and faster transferring is enough for me.

    For my mom 4 tuners in one box and streaming will be enough. She doesn't want to manage two TiVos and she doesn't like transferring shows since it takes forever.
  7. jamesjones_det

    jamesjones_det New Member

    Dec 13, 2012
    I don't think TiVo is out for people like you who have been with the service forever. If I was only paying $6.95 for TiVo I would buy 2 or 3 boxes and call it a day.

    For me as a new member it's $15 a month for TiVo and $3.50 for a cable card. To add even a 2 tuner TiVo it would cost me another $16.50 a month (3.50 for cable card and 12.95 for another TiVo service). This would bring my receiver bill to $35 a month.

    For me $6 a month to extend my recordings and occasionally live TV service is a bargain if it's really only going to be $99 and $6 a month.
  8. BigJimOutlaw

    BigJimOutlaw Well-Known Member

    Mar 21, 2004
    How easily can you see it? ;) 10K Minis per quarter might be on the aggressive side after the initial surge since the potential market really is kind of limited for now ("tens of thousands" of 4/XL4's sold according to the new waiver). A 33% upsell rate of all sales also sounds aggressive but once/if it's opened up to the other boxes, then maybe it's potentially possible. That service/lifetime fee is a real stinker in the deal, but a bundle discount of some kind could be attractive to some degree.
  9. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    I am sure that the reason TiVo developed both the Stream and Mini is because they thought they would cause greater new DVR sales either by attracting new customers or by retaining existing ones through upgrades. However I do not believe the Mini is going to lower the cancellation rate of any TiVo DVR any time soon.

    First it requires a 4 tuner TiVo DVR and it is only going to work with Premiere DVRs. So there is no reason it should have any positive (it may have a negative) effect on the cancellation rate of Series 1, 2 or 3 TiVos. Second I don't really believe many (any?) people who have bought a 4 tuner TiVo DVR are going to be canceling it with or without the availability of a Mini any time soon. So that leaves the 2 tuner Premieres, which I am guessing it will have little net effect on.

    I do believe that down the road it will help make it harder for people to leave TiVo - once someone has purchased a 4 (6?) tuner DVR and several Minis I do think they will be less likely to leave than someone who just purchases a low cost dual tuner one.

    To me the Mini is somewhat of a game changer for retaining customers because it does not have a hard drive should have a very low failure rate and not need to be replaced for years and several DVR upgrades. People who are buying 4 tuner DVRs with Minis now will only need to replace the DVR when TiVo refreshes their DVR line up to have the latest greatest whole home system.
  10. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    Thanks for pointing back to the "tens of thousands" comment from the recent waiver request. Since the Elite launched in January, 2012, TiVo has added approximately 120k gross adds (Premieres). I'm guessing that a 3rd of those are 4-tuner boxes so we have a base of only 40k boxes. I suspect 15 percent of those users would buy one Mini (6,000) and another 5 percent would by 2 Minis (4,000). So 10,000 Minis sold to existing users. For new TiVo purchasers, I suspect at least 50 percent will opt for a 4-tuner box (~15,000/qtr - 60,000/yr) and 30 percent (on average) would buy a Mini (4,500/qtr - 18,000/yr).

    Bottom-line is a I agree that my 10k per quarter is aggressive and would require a significant uptick in retail sales volume.
  11. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    The Elite launched in October 2011. I got my first Elite on October 9th, 2011.
  12. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    Thanks for that clarification. I bought my Elite around that time as well. How quickly I forget! :rolleyes:
  13. mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    Thanks for providing these numbers.

    For comparison, I pulled together these numbers on other Tivo Products. Feel free to add or correct where needed. I couldn't find all the ranges. For energy use, I used 10 cents per kw hr, 24 hrs daily, using highest watt usage if there is a range for that device:

    Tivo Mini: 4.4-5.9 watts; cost per month: 0.40; per year 5.15
    Tivo Stream: 7-9 watts; cost per month: 0.60; per year 7.86
    Tivo Premiere Elite: 20-22 watts; cost per month: 1.48; per year 19.22
    Tivo Premiere: 23-26 watts; cost per month 1.75; per year 22.71
    Tivo HD: 35-38 watts; cost per month: 2.55; per year 33.20
    Tivo Series 3: 41 watts; cost per month: 2.76; per yera 35.82
    Tivo Series 2: 40 watts; cost per month: 2.69; per year 34.94
    Tivo Series 1: 40-45 watts; cost per month: 3.02; per year 39.31
  14. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    Jan 31, 2002
    The Premiere Elite draws around 22 watts. 20 to 22 if I remember correctly.
  15. davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

    Apr 18, 2002
    I measured my S3 at 42 and THD at 38 for whatever it's worth. I'm sure it varies by type of usage and such.
  16. mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

    Dec 17, 2009
    Added that info to the list. Interesting that Elite uses less than the regular Premiere.
  17. jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

    Jan 20, 2004
    I think the elite has a slightly newer chipset version, which would explain it.
  18. compnurd

    compnurd Active Member

    Oct 6, 2011
    Newer Power supply.. Same chipset
  19. P42

    P42 Active Member

    Jan 7, 2003
    I don't think that is it surprising that the Elite uses less than the regular Premiere. While it does have twice the number of tuners the digital ones are using the same number of chips, and they are dropping the analog and OTA chips. Add in newer and more efficient versions of other chips, I'm taking a guess here, but for example the number of RAM chips needed could easily have been reduced with minimal hardware re-design, and zero software design. Enough little things like that will add up to 3 or 4 watts.
  20. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

    Jan 29, 2011
    SE Ohio
    I think he meant the tuner chips. The Elite has four tuners, but they're newer and they lack circuitry for handling OTA (although that probably doesn't save much).

    Oops. P42 beat me to it.

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