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The Tivo Mini lives....

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by dave13077, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

    2,791
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    Apr 5, 2010
    What exactly is a "TV"? The Mini can be connected to a computer monitor, or to a thin, battery operated LCD. When I watch Netflix or Crackle on my Android tablet, is it a "TV?". If I stream the output of my TiVo to a phone, is that a "TV?" If I watch broadcast programs on my Lenovo Laptop running Linux through an HDTV tuner dongle, is that a "TV"?

    The whole concept of what is or is not a "TV" is already blurred and will just get blurrier all the time.
     
  2. spotterman26

    spotterman26 New Member

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    Dec 27, 2012
    NC
    Negative.
     
  3. spotterman26

    spotterman26 New Member

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    Dec 27, 2012
    NC
    5.9 watching live tv and recorded shows, and 4.4 when in standby.

    EDIT - 5.2 in screensaver.
     
  4. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    The key is your ability to watch a program, the word TV means nothing by itself, it is your ability to watch on any display device will makes you a consumer of that program. The cost is for content not display size you may watch it on. A typical cable co may give you 500+ channels of programing to watch, if it is delivered to your home the cable co pays, nobody cares (except you) if you watch it on a 3 inch or 110 inch display.
     
  5. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

    5,709
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    Oct 11, 2005
    Rochester NY
    Actually in the US what a TV is, is legally defined. In the US for something to be legally be called a TV it has to have tuners built into it that can receive television broadcasts, so no your computer monitor is not a TV and neither is your tablet. That is why when some manufactures left tuners out of their early HD devices they couldn't call them a TV but had to refer to them has monitors.

    However your point is well taken that in the context of a mini it can transmit a signal to any displace device with the correct input and it is really irrelevant if the device is a TV or not.
     
  6. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

    3,501
    18
    Sep 19, 2006
    In the ATL
    +1000. Kevin hit the nail on the head - if Tivo charges a sub fee for the Mini it's because they can for business reasons, not because it is justified by any ongoing costs. Give it up, Sam.
     
  7. SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

    8,628
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    Dec 30, 2004
    Chicago Burbs
    @davezatz on twitter:

     
  8. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Member TCF Club

    10,048
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    Jan 6, 2003
    Houston &...
    What recurring monthly costs do they incur on a sold Mini?
     
  9. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

    1,915
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    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    It take some extrapolation from TiVo's Service Revenue and Cost of Service Revenue numbers to conclude that the cost per box is less than $2/mo... probably closer to $1.5/mo.
     
  10. compnurd

    compnurd New Member

    1,011
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    Oct 6, 2011
    same could be said for Monthly Set top fees from every cable/SAT company..

    Why does Direct TV need to charge 10 bucks for an advanced box or 7 bucks for a HD fee or 7 bucks for a DVR service fee.

    The 6 bucks is to make them money
     
  11. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    And more to the point, the recurring revenue stream is to get wall street excited. Too bad they won't sell many.
     
  12. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

    1,915
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    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    At $6/mo TiVo could easily sell this box at $99 (subsidized) and have a reasonable ROIC.
     
  13. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    And over three years the "TCO" of that box is $320... which, for a box that is nothing but a parasite seems very high to this particular TiVo owner.
     
  14. morac

    morac Cat God

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    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    At that rate it would likely put the lifetime service price at $200 which would give a purchase price of $299. That seems on par with what TiVo charges for other products, which is about 50% more than what people would expect the cost to be.
     
  15. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    If the lifetime cost is $200 then I will consider it..... when they are trying to get rid of refurb Minis for $25.
     
  16. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Tampa, FL
    At $6/mo, the Mini will save me significant money over a Verizon FiOS extender which is $11/mo or a TiVo Premiere box which is $12.99(box)+$3.95(CableCARD). Of course, the Mini will have an upfront cost that will need to be amortized over the life of the box.

    I think it will be a competitive offering at a $5.95/mo level.

    TiVo will likely amortize the $199 product lifetime cost over 66 months making their ARPU $3/mo for a lifetime subscriber.
     
  17. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    Keep dreaming. I would be very surprised to see a $25/mini for a very long time. Refurbs will like be $69 to $79 if the regular box is $99.
     
  18. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    I think the problem is that people (like yourself) are trying to justify a monthly sub cost on the TiVo because they can argue that it;

    1. Uses less power than a full TiVo.
    2. Doesn't require a cablecard rental like a full TiVo.
    3. Doesn't have other associated outlet fees or monthly costs like other TiVos.

    While all of these arguments are "true"... the reality is that the majority of TiVo owners only have one TiVo. They would not be "replacing" another TiVo with the Mini in order to realize perceived lower costs. They would be adding the Mini to extend their TiVo out to other rooms in the house that might be served by "free" cable boxes or basic cable, etc.

    For those users, a $299 TiVo Mini with lifetime service might be a hard pill to swallow.
     
  19. davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

    4,587
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    Apr 18, 2002
    Northern...
    I'd be amazed if the box comes in at $100. Keep in mind the 802.11n wireless adapters retails for $80 and the Stream runs $130. I'd say that $130 price point is the lowest we'd probably see it (subsidy or no).
     
  20. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
    #3 is not necessarily true. I suspect that Comcast will still try to charge an additional outlet fee to light the Mini box up with XFINITY On Demand.

    Keep in mind that the average home in the US has 2.5 set top boxes. My speculation is that the average TiVo home has 1 TiVo box and 1.5 cable operator supplied boxes.

    Is there such a thing as a "free" cable box any more? FiOS charges $6.99 for a DTA...
     

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