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The Tivo Mini lives....

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by dave13077, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    They can't price it too low without alienating their cable company customers. Since the cable comapnies will probably be charging a hefty monthly rental fee for it.
     
  2. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Suddenlink is charging $6 or $7 per month with zero up-front cost. I think TiVo could price this very low and not risk alienating their cable operators. I hope TiVo decides to be very aggressive on retail pricing since this could significantly boost retail subscriber numbers.
     
  3. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    According to the article the TiVo Stream is available for a comparatively ripoff rental price of $10/month yet Stream can be bought retail for ~ $129. So trying to predict up front cost with lifetime based on extrapolation from a monthly rental price wouldn't work in this case since it would put Mini at under $100 which isn't at all realistic.
     
  4. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Under $100 for the box plus a service fee is conceivable. They sell refurbished 2 tuner TiVos for $60. They're willing to subsidize hardware as long as they make it up in service fees. Plus this could also boost sales of 4 tuner units. I'm betting the box will be relatively cheap. However I expect the service to be $6/mo or $150-200 for lifetime.
     
  5. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

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    In my opinion the purpose of the mini is to help sell DVRs. They are not trying to compete with streaming media devices like the Roku or to sell minis for the sake of selling minis.

    In my opinion the deals will be bundles with new 4 (6?) tuner DVRs. Stand alone minis will have a higher price - my guess with lifetime service is $250+/-
     
  6. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    You'll be passing then, you forgot this is Tivo and there's no way it will be that low without a sub.
     
  7. TimA

    TimA New Member

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    I find it hard to justify a service fee for the Tivo Mini if it doesn't have a true dynamic tuner capability. I'm already paying for the tuner and guide service for the tuner the Mini uses. Why charge me again?

    I guess the answer is "because they can".

    Tim
     
  8. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    But the question then is, will the retail stream pair with an MSO-provided Premiere? If it doesn't, then they are two separate universes. They can still allow Premiere-to-Premiere transfers.

    The Stream should be about $200. That's where the MCE extenders have been, and it's a premium over things like Roku because of the integration with a local DVR.

    The concept of service with the Mini is nuts. Even with the Premieres, it's stupid, as they are just hiding $500 of the cost of a new Premiere on another web page. It's sort of bait-and-switchy.
     
  9. SullyND

    SullyND L:45-21 TCF Club

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    Because you are not paying for the tuner and guide service for the tuner the mini uses?
     
  10. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Because TiVo has to pay Tribune Media Services (TMS) for access to the guide data on another device?
     
  11. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    In reality, TiVo could easily sell the Mini at retail without a subscription fee. The problem with that model is the way TiVo is forced to account for Mini's from a Financial Accounting Standards Board (FASB) perspective. If TiVo sells the TiVo Mini without a subscription, they would only be able to count a Mini box as hardware revenue. On the other hand, if the Mini provides recurring monthly revenue or lifetime revenue amortized over 66 months, then TiVo can count each Mini box as a retail TiVo subscriber. In other words, TiVo maximizes the value of the company by charging some sort of nominal recurring fee for the TiVo Mini. IMHO, this is the primary reason TiVo is charging a recurring subscription fee for the Mini.
     
  12. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    How is that working from the iPhone and iPad that I have that is getting access to guide data for the my Premiere? I don't pay a monthly fee or service for each of them. If that is the argument then it just doesn't hold water.
     
  13. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    I don't know the answer however when I asked one of my sources at TiVo the following question,

    The answer I received was,

    IMHO, this non-answer was an answer.
     
  14. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

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    Yep, my guess would be that because the Mini is hooked up to a TV that they will treat it more like a Tivo (with regard to a subscription). Not saying that it's right but that seems to be the deal.
     
  15. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

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    You appear to have been around a long time - so you should be very familiar with how TiVo charges for their DVRs it has been the same since the beginning (having separate hardware and service charges). Having TiVo do the same thing with the Mini shouldn't really be all that surprising. Pay TV providers and cell phone companies do the same thing - move some or all of the hardware costs to on going monthly fees, at least with TiVo you can pay everything upfront and be done with it.
     
  16. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    If that's true, it would indicate that the Tribune Media Services lawyers have made fools of the TiVo lawyers. There shouldn't be a fee just for remote viewing. As others have mentioned, the iPhone, iPad, etc, require no fees. I don't pay a fee when I use Zap2it.
     
  17. puffdaddy

    puffdaddy Member

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    Do we know whether the mini (at this point) draws its guide data remotely from the host premiere, or whether it autonomously downloads its own guide data from tivo?

    If it's the latter, then paying Tribune makes sense.

    Spotterman26, when you went through the guided setup for your minis, did you see the "downloading guide data for 24 hours), or any messages like that?
     
  18. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    I believe the Mini draws guide data from its host Premiere box. I don't think it stores any guide data locally. I understand why you'll think TiVo has crappy lawyers because they've signed a poor contract with TMS, etc. The fact of the matter remains that TiVo does have to pay some recurring monthly costs associated with supporting a Mini. Could they amortize those costs across the lifetime of the Mini - absolutely. From a business perspective, it makes sense for them to charge a nominal fee so they can recognize Mini revenue over the course of a Mini's lifetime.

    As a wise TiVo blogger said to me via email earlier today,

     
  19. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Highly unlikely the Mini downloads guide data and stores it locally since there is very little storage on the Mini for that kind of thing (remember no hard drive). Since Mini appears to be using same HDUI software as series 4 units it does communicate with tivo.com servers for some guide information. But the iOS and Android apps do as well.
    I suppose a quick test for this is to take the "Q" host TiVo off the network and see if the Mini is at all functional as far as doing searches and bringing up the guide, etc. If it has local guide information or is using tivo.com to get the information the Mini should still work independent of the host. My guess is Mini won't have access to any guide information without the host which would indicate it's totally dependent on the host for that info.

    Far more likely, as has been stated, TiVo chooses to charge a subscription "because they can" and they think it will help their business model. Time will tell if that is a wise decision. At the end of the day it's the final cost that matters - they can try to justify the cost any way they want but I don't buy the pay for listings argument.
     
  20. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I thought the difference was that those devices aren't connected directly to the Tv to use? The Mini is designed to be directly connected to a TV. And that could be the difference and why they would be charged a fee.
     

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