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The Tivo Mini lives....

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by dave13077, Aug 21, 2012.

  1. Jan 30, 2013 #721 of 1620
    crxssi

    crxssi Veteran TiVo User

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    You don't HAVE to have your other Premiere connected to cable at all. You can stream anything you recorded from your main Premiere and pay $0 to Comcast right now and without a Mini.
     
  2. Jan 30, 2013 #722 of 1620
    DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

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    That's way too much for a device that has fewer functions than a Roku which is priced under $100. If your prediction ends up being the price the Mini will be a spectacular flop.

    It is irrelevant that Tivo believes they need to price this mythical streaming device sufficiently high to mitigate the potential loss of revenue from potential additional Tivo DVRs. What they will be truly accomplishing will be to encourage consumers who actually comparison shop to purchase other solutions and abandon Tivo at a faster rate.

    "But the cable company DVRs aren't very good! You don't have another option!" That's what we constantly hear from the Tivo apologists. But you know what? Video delivered via cable is a dying industry and Tivo will continue to chase fewer and fewer customers. So what if the other DVRs are bad? If you don't like any of them, you can build an entertainment system that doesn't even require a traditional DVR.

    Tivo continues to price its products in a vacuum oblivious of other entertainment devices' capabilities and costs. I've owned Tivos since 2000 and through years of buying their mediocre, half-finished products they've completely sapped my enthusiasm for anything they sell.
     
  3. Jan 31, 2013 #723 of 1620
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    But he wouldn't be able to watch live TV, and that sounds like something that is important to him.

    Dan
     
  4. Jan 31, 2013 #724 of 1620
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Apples and oranges. They are designed for two different purposes and have different hardware to reflect that. The Roku can not decode MPEG-2, the Mini will have to. It will also need a chip capable of running Adobe AIR so they don't have to redo the whole UI again. It's also suppose to have MoCa built in and maybe even act as a MoCa bridge (not sure if that has been confirmed yet or not) Not to mention the Roku is subsidized by the services that run on it.

    That being said I bet the hardware costs are comparable. The difference will be the service. With a Roku you pay the service fees to the services you're using, like Hulu, Netflix, etc... With the Mini you'll be paying a similar service fee to TiVo to be able to stream from your other TiVos and access their guide data for searching, etc...

    Dan
     
  5. Jan 31, 2013 #725 of 1620
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    That argument I don't buy at all. The Mini is completely dependent on the host DVR for all content. We don't pay a "service" fee for the iPad & Android apps which also access guide listings after all. If TiVo uses that as justification for a service fee it's totally bogus. At the end of the day though as you have stated what really matters is the final price however TiVo decides to break it down. If the main justification for the Mini is to keep up with competitor Whole Home solutions then charging too much for the Mini won't help their cause though. They should at least have a great deal for XL4 + Mini bundle though even though that won't appease most in this forum.
     
  6. Jan 31, 2013 #726 of 1620
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I guess that's true. The iPad app does access the same guide data for free. Hadn't thought about that. Honestly no one, other then the TiVo employees, really knows why they are charging a fee or how much that fee will be. Everything we're discussing here is pure speculation. The only reason we even "know" there is going to be a fee is because someone slipped up in an interview. That could end up being wrong for all we know.

    Dan
     
  7. Jan 31, 2013 #727 of 1620
    Philmatic

    Philmatic Member

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    I'm just posting my guesstimate so I can come back and say I told you so:

     
  8. Jan 31, 2013 #728 of 1620
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I agree with your service prices. However I'm going to guess the hardware is going to be $79

    Dan
     
  9. Jan 31, 2013 #729 of 1620
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I agree on pricing all that matters is what the total ends up being. My guess is $250.

    Regarding the mini it self, in another thread I posed the question:

    It would be interesting to know what TiVo actually wants to happen with the mini. ​

    Well unless the people running TiVo are morons they are not spending money developing anything unless they believe it will make TiVo more profitable than not developing whatever it is they are developing.

    So when it comes to the mini what is TiVo's vision for it enhancing their profits? I think you have hit on it exactly packaging it with DVRs to enhance or at least retain DVR sales.

    If anyone really believes they developed the mini to sell it at a loss to existing customers - well I have some swamp land that will make a great investment for ya. Stand alone sales of the mini only make sense if those sales are profitable on their own. The deals will be packages with new DVRs like the recent Stream deals.
     
  10. Jan 31, 2013 #730 of 1620
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    And then they will continue to piss off their existing customer base. This is what they are struggling with, price-wise (I think) - a good bundle deal for new DVR sales is a no-brainer but appeasing all the folks that already are into them for $7-800 or more (XL4/Elite with lifetime), it gets harder to price.
     
  11. Jan 31, 2013 #731 of 1620
    NotNowChief

    NotNowChief Addicted to TiVo

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    I ABSOLUTELY CANNOT WAIT TO SEE HOW BAD TIVO IS GOING TO SHOOT ITSELF IN THE FOOT IF THEY EVER LAUNCH THIS THING WITH THOSE RIDICULOUS PRICES! Especially after the anticipation with which so many people are waiting.

    I WHOLEHEARTEDLY AGREE, A PREMIERE FROM AMAZON WITH FREE SHIPPING IS $99.99!

    I am going to be hysterical after all the development and anticipation if this thing flops because of a silly pricing scheme.
     
  12. Jan 31, 2013 #732 of 1620
    k2ue

    k2ue Retired RF Engineer

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    If there is any service fee fore the Mini it will be DOA.
     
  13. Jan 31, 2013 #733 of 1620
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    As others have said all that matters is total costs. Your $100 Premiere actually costs $500 with service, if stand alone minis come in at $250 with service that is a large enough savings form many people especially if they don't want to rent additional cable cards and 4 tuners is enough for them.

    Also you are rating success as how many stand alone units they sell to existing customers. I don't think that is what TiVo is going for with the mini. I think it is all about packaging it with new DVRs.
     
  14. Jan 31, 2013 #734 of 1620
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I still hope they do a monthly option as low as $5 for the mini. I'm only paying $6.95 for my premiere right now so I would need the monthly price to be lower, then I would just do monthly and keep it on monthly indefinitely over paying something like $200 for lifetime. Since the Mini will be in a location that isn't used very often.

    My monthly Premiere from 2010 is still not at the break even point compared to if I had purchased lifetime. The breakeven point was 37.4 months(so I'll hit that in May or June this year) since lifetime cost $260 more at the time.(lifetime on my launch Premieres was $200 and the Premiere box with monthly was also $60 less than than the other Premiere boxes I purchased with Lifetime at launch)(I ended up selling all my other lifetime launch Premieres since my GF did not want to swap out her S3 boxes for Premieres and I sold four to cover the cost of my Lifetime Elites)
     
  15. Jan 31, 2013 #735 of 1620
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    If there's going to be a subcription fee for this thing, There's no way it should cost more than $100. It should be more like $75. That falls under the current price for a new Premiere which is $150 if bought from TiVo.
    It should also incur a lower monthly fee, no more than half of what a DVR costs. The $6.95 rate would fall in line with that provided that the Mini includes on board guide data.
    $250 w/ lifetime.
    With the Mini, you basically have half a Premiere - it should be half the cost.
     
  16. Jan 31, 2013 #736 of 1620
    jrtroo

    jrtroo Chill- its just TV

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    Careful- you should be claiming it should be half of the retail price. We don't know if it will be half the cost to tivo, as Tivo may price in a bit of lost revenue from the failure to sell a premiere instead.

    I'm mostly eager to get rid of the expensive Comcast cablecard. For me, a high retail price may still behoove a purchase.
     
  17. Jan 31, 2013 #737 of 1620
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    My next Tivo purchase will be the rumored 6 tuner model that may have Stream capabilities built in and hopefully has Android support by that time. When that Tivo is released to retail customers, I will also buy 2 or 3 Minis if it is $250 or less with lifetime. I want a whole house system, and this would meet my needs.
     
  18. Jan 31, 2013 #738 of 1620
    L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    I agree with you in principle. But if TiVo wants to offer some kind of bogus monthly fee for people who expect that for some reason, I guess there's no harm in that. It's the bottom line that counts. I think a reasonable price would be $80 fully paid (including lifetime "service") or $30 subsidized plus $5/month "service" fee with a minimum commitment of a year.

    There's really no rationale for a monthly fee because TiVo has no ongoing costs associated with use of a Mini. All the ongoing costs are for providing service to the Premiere unit(s) which the Mini accesses. Eventually a Mini shouldn't even be required, since newer TVs should have streaming capability built in. If TiVo refuses to allow streaming to such TVs, they will eventually be forced out of business by competitors who can keep up with the times.
     
  19. Jan 31, 2013 #739 of 1620
    mr_smits

    mr_smits New Member

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    That's like saying text messages should be free since it costs almost nothing to provide them. Do cell phone companies give free text messages? Of course not. They make something like 7000% profit on individual text messages.

    Companies charge what the market can take.
     
  20. Jan 31, 2013 #740 of 1620
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    I think TiVo has a play to be made with the 2 tuner Premieres. Once the mini is functional it should be relatively easy to have a 2 tuner Premiere have all the same functionality. Primarily the ability to use a tuner from the 4 tuner Premieres. This would allow people to use Premieres in the same way they would be using a mini and save the cable card and/or outlet fees, with the additional option of using the Premiere with OTA thus adding tuners without the those same cable card and/or outlet fees. It will be interesting to see what TiVo does.
     

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