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The Newsroom S02E07 : Red Team III

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by debtoine, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. Aug 27, 2013 #61 of 106
    TonyD79

    TonyD79 Active Member

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    Pretty sure I saw a ref disappear when they showed the supposed raw footage the first time. I'm not going to download the episode to check, though. It was obvious to me it was doctored, though.
     
  2. Aug 27, 2013 #62 of 106
    busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

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    What I think the writers were thinking is that there was only part (maybe a third or a fourth) of the television in the shot, so any changes to the picture due to the editing could simply have been misinterpreted by the viewer as genuine camera cuts in the game. Without the benefit of the full context of the entire TV screen, it wouldn't be obvious that the cuts on the screen were in fact edits, except for the wonky shot clock, which doesn't require any other context to look wrong.
     
  3. Aug 27, 2013 #63 of 106
    TonyD79

    TonyD79 Active Member

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    I can see that. Plus who is looking for it early on. Mac should've caught it on her later reviews without the clock but on the first view, everyone was focused on the answers.
     
  4. Aug 27, 2013 #64 of 106
    DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give em Hell, Devils

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    Since people seem to be too lazy to click on the post I made earlier in this thread where you can see that portion of the video, here it is:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Not only does the ref disappear and the cut looks totally unnatural, but you can actually see the shot clock and it goes from 19 to 3. I don't know how Jerry could have done this and thought he was getting away with it, and I don't know how the rest of the staff could have reviewed the "raw" footage and not noticed that.

    Frankly, with how obvious it was, I kind of think Sorkin screwed up here. He's always trying to make things sophisticated and complicated to show off the intellect of his characters and therefore of his writing. But with the way this was executed, it just makes everyone look really stupid, including him, since nobody in their right mind would alter the footage like that and leave the obvious tell of the shot clock in the edge of the frame.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2013 #65 of 106
    NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    i was thinking the same about me! :)
     
  6. Aug 27, 2013 #66 of 106
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    How much time did he have to edit it? And I think it's important to realize that we have the benefit of dramatic irony here. I think it is reasonable that he edited it hastily and no one noticed, but I do think the first time someone looked at the footage after the general called to complain, at that point it would be obvious and should have been noticed.

    I also think the machinations in the script to make Mac the person who realized it were over the top. Giant clock and conversations about shot clocks.
     
  7. Aug 27, 2013 #67 of 106
    DeDondeEs

    DeDondeEs Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Yeah they were over the top. Most people I know who don't like basketball but try to ask questions to sound interested would ask things like where is the game being played, who do you want to win, or is it a good game? Not what is that small clock counting down in the corner?
     
  8. Aug 27, 2013 #68 of 106
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Yeah, what he did was necessary (make it clear how Mac figured out what had happened, with all the necessary build-up along the way), but the way he did it was very clumsy. It would have taken a lot more work, I think, to do the same thing well, and I think in a show at this level he should have taken the effort. Perhaps Sorkin is overdoing it by writing virtually the entire series himself..?
     
  9. Aug 27, 2013 #69 of 106
    aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

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    I thought "why are there two clocks" was a reasonable enough question. It's a question I could see my wife asking me, for example.

    The transition from football to every sport that has a play clock was overly Sorkinian, though.
     
  10. Aug 27, 2013 #70 of 106
    NorthAlabama

    NorthAlabama tabasco rules

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    for me the breakdown was the introduction of a countdown clock to mac. any studio that wanted could have had added that ability at any time over the past 30 years.

    up until that point, it flowed naturally for me and was believable.
     
  11. Aug 27, 2013 #71 of 106
    TonyD79

    TonyD79 Active Member

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    It wasn't for me. Will doesn't want one. Mac does. She had one made up to try to get him to use it again. That was implied in the dialog. She said something about him making up reasons to not use it this time.
     
  12. Aug 28, 2013 #72 of 106
    Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey

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    Excellent points. These are supposed to be professionals. They should be LOOKING for stuff like that. And watching it, it's really noticeable that there's a jump. Isn't the whole point of the Red Teams to poke holes in the story to see if it can hold up to the holes?
     
  13. Aug 28, 2013 #73 of 106
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Again, I think it's dramatic irony at play. There are many, many, many times in a sports broadcast where things jump around in time and the like as they show previous coverage, replay important moments, do halftime analysis, show other games currently happening, show prior games with one of the teams, etc. For perfect intelligence here, they'd have to get the original game footage and compare.
     
  14. Aug 28, 2013 #74 of 106
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    And again, they have the problem of making it subtle enough that news professionals wouldn't catch it, and obvious enough that the average TV viewer WOULD catch it. Which of course is impossible.

    And yet again, I don't think he did what he did at all well, but I do see why he had to do what he did.
     
  15. Aug 28, 2013 #75 of 106
    TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

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    Well, he didn't HAVE to make it so us viewers knew the key was the shot clock or the game. I would have been satisfied with seeing the edit and then being delightfully surprised to see how they figured it out once the general called.

    It seemed like they made Root act in a very specific way as well in order for the edit to be possible. Otherwise it would have felt off to lop off part of the sentence.
     
  16. Aug 28, 2013 #76 of 106
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the ModeratŠ¾r TCF Club

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    Why does the cut look unnatural? So the scene changes. They actually do have more than one camera, even in basketball games. The only thing important is the time on the clock; everything else stays in place throughout where it was cut. There was also dialog about blurring/obscuring the game video so it's not unreasonable that for most of the people who would be reviewing the piece, they wouldn't even have the opportunity to see the shot clock well enough to notice a jump in the countdown timer.
     
  17. Aug 28, 2013 #77 of 106
    aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

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    One wonders why Dantanna couldn't schedule the interview for 9 am. Or for a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday.

    One also wonders why a three star general who wants his voice and face disguised would allow his medals so be filmed in high def, and would want to be exposed on TV as a huge basketball fanatic, so huge he can't turn off the game to talk about war crimes. Like his buddies wouldn't be able to figure it out?
     
  18. Aug 28, 2013 #78 of 106
    zalusky

    zalusky Active Member TCF Club

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    First because Dantanna is a putz who was focused on an agenda and not thinking of the house of cards about to come down. He had no idea of what rules the general was going to apply till he got there.

    Second its not entirely clear if the general was an idiot and just liked the game or if he felt it was editing protection.

    We have seen time and time again in Washington how people do not think things through and get caught.
     
  19. Aug 28, 2013 #79 of 106
    Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    Dantanna also thought he was right. He figured he was in the "framing OJ" school...it's OK to frame him if he's guilty.

    I think a lot of the issues surrounding this whole storyline really do just boil down to lazy solutions to TV writer problems..."how to get all this across to the viewer who may not be paying a ton of attention," and forgetting the part about "without making the characters look like idiots."
     
  20. Aug 28, 2013 #80 of 106
    zalusky

    zalusky Active Member TCF Club

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    Except we see these stories all the time. I am waiting for the full story on the KTVU asian pilot name thing to come out. I am sure a lot of people who never heard about it and it was presented as a fiction story would say it there is no way that could happen and it was lazy writing.
     

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