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The Free Space Indicator Thread

Discussion in 'TiVo Suggestion Avenue' started by Samsara, Jan 12, 2002.

How Important is This to You?

  1. It's so important that I'd pay extra for it.

    158 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. It's important but I wouldn't pay extra for it.

    1,306 vote(s)
    75.5%
  3. Not important, but I'd probably use it if it was free.

    219 vote(s)
    12.7%
  4. I'd probably never use it one way or the other.

    46 vote(s)
    2.7%
  1. May 29, 2002 #61 of 297
    Samsara

    Samsara Bored now

    685
    0
    May 11, 2000
    Allen, TX
    Ok, kids, I'm not about to close this thread, so that means that if you can't play nice, I'm going to have to sit here on my noisy, 24k-at-best dialup phone lines editing and deleting individual posts for three hours, and if anybody makes me waste my time like that, I'm going to take my share of Xaa's moderator fund and send a few singing telegrams to your respective offices to serenade you with Taiwanese rap songs backed up by the MIDI players on their PDAs and cell phones.

    Same goes for any off-topic replies this may inspire; PM me instead.

    Now, somebody please post another well-reasoned, on-topic, and mind-numbingly unoriginal post on this dead horse of a topic so I can back to ignoring this thread. :)

    Samsara
     
  2. May 31, 2002 #62 of 297
    TreborPugly

    TreborPugly Unreal!

    4,542
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    May 2, 2002
    Eastern TN

    Okay, since you asked, and I've just read the last few posts in this thread for the first time:

    Knowing the total capacity of the hard drive: (ie, how much space you could use for recording in GB)

    1. Space used by SUID/KUID recordings
    2. Space used by recordings which are expired or will expire
    3. Space required by all scheduled recordings

    for example:

    With 75 GB total capacity for recording:

    Code:
    SUID/KUID recordings                                25.29 GB
    Expirable recordings                                35.93 GB
    Scheduled recordings                                55.10 GB
    

    Is this good enough Samsara, or do I need to ramble on for a while too?

    Treb

    P.S. I know the spell checker doesn't like "Expirable," but Webster's does.
     
  3. May 31, 2002 #63 of 297
    Samsara

    Samsara Bored now

    685
    0
    May 11, 2000
    Allen, TX
    Don't worry, there will be time for rambling in your reply to the next guy, who will tell you how and why your idea will be such a massive source of confussion that businesses will lose more money in sick days and lowered productivity than the last two Star Wars films combined.

    Alternatively, you could wait for someone else to call that guy an idiot for you, but then he'll offer up his own version of an FSI, and you'll have to thank him for defending you while simultaneously tearing his idea to shreds.

    Samsara
     
  4. Jun 4, 2002 #64 of 297
    beejay

    beejay New Member

    683
    0
    Feb 3, 2001
    Richmond, IN
    OK, Treb, I like the basic idea. The only worry I have (see, Samsara warned you) is the number of people who don't know what GB is (and there is nothing that tells you on normal screens what the total is on your TiVo.)

    Perhaps percentages would be better. (I will now accept rants from everyone pointing out that many TiVo users probably don't understand percentages either.)

    But I'll take anything that improves on the current method of adding up your recorded suggestions as an approximation of "free space".
     
  5. Jun 5, 2002 #65 of 297
    jp78

    jp78 New Member

    25
    0
    Nov 5, 2001
    Murray, UT, USA
    Time to throw a little fuel on the fire. :)

    Who cares about free space? When it comes right down to it, you don't really care how much free space there is on your TiVo (indeed, if you have suggestions turned on, there isn't any).

    I care about two things:

    1. How much time will I have to spend watching the programming that is currently on my TiVo.

    2. Will TiVo be able to record the programs I've asked it to and still keep the ones around that I want to see.

    Rather than a free space indicator, how about some kind of space used indicator ("non-free" space?). This is all information we can currently get right now; TiVo will happily show it to us, but only one program at a time... we have to add it up by hand.

    Something simple like this:

    TiVo currently contains the following:
    5:00 KUID Programming
    15:00 Unexpired Programming
    7:30 Expired Programming
    3:00 Suggested Programming

    But we also want future information. Again, the information is there, we just have to go find it (on the ToDo and Recording History lists):

    Tonight, TiVo will record
    2:00 of Season Pass programming (1:00 is SUID)
    0:30 of Suggested programming

    Tomorrow, TiVo will record
    3:00 of Season Pass programming
    0:30 of Wish List programming
    0:30 of Suggested programming
    TiVo will not record
    1:00 of Season Pass programming due to a conflict
    1:00 of Wish List programming due to KAM restrictions
    TiVo will delete
    3:00 of Expired programming
    3:30 of Suggested programming
    and
    2:00 of Season Pass programming will expire
    1:00 of Wish List programming will expire

    I've also seen some good suggestions on handling the expiration of shows. I know that right now, I tend to spend a few minutes (maybe 10) each day, on each of my TiVos, updating the expiration of some shows that I know I want to see but have not had time to watch yet. If there were an easier way to do that, it would make me happier (one example I read was to use the thumb buttons to bump up [or down] the expiration time of a show right from now showing.

    I suspect that we will never come to a consensus on what makes a good free space indicator, but access to summary information about TiVo's current state and what it's going to do next would simplify my management of the box. And when you come right down to it, that's why we bought TiVos, in the first place... to make it easier to watch the programming we want, when we want to.
     
  6. Jun 6, 2002 #66 of 297
    martinp13

    martinp13 YHTBMABIITY

    10,976
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    Mar 19, 2001
    Fort Worth, TX
    jp78: I appreciate your copious typing... at least I didn't have to guess what you meant by anything. :) But the information you have presented to the user is too much and too vague.

    It would take at least three screens to present all that to the user, and making someone page thru a commonly viewed status screen is criminal. Don't you cuss every time you have to page thru Now Playing? :)

    And giving such vague information is like giving a weather report that says "There will be clouds in the sky". Are they white puffy clouds? Dark thunderheads? And the all-important bottom line: am I gonna get wet??? If you just tell the user "1:00 of Expired Programming is gonna be whacked", you really haven't told them much at all. They have to go to yet another screen to see what programming is toast. And what if the next two expired things on the chopping block are a 30-min sitcom and a 4-hour football game? It isn't REALLY going to delete "1:00", eh? :)
     
  7. Jun 7, 2002 #67 of 297
    rbird

    rbird uses tivo "wrong"

    126
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    Sep 20, 2000
    Centerville, GA
    I would just like to comment that with the newfound hidden ability to sort Now Playing by expiration date, Tivo has fulfilled about 30% of my desire for space management features.

    I wonder what other features are hidden under the top layer of the Tivo software.

    Bob
     
  8. Jul 8, 2002 #68 of 297
    chipwood

    chipwood New Member

    13
    0
    Apr 18, 2002
    And even more of mine. I think all the "used" space information could be done on a single screen (just the current usage). It's REALLY REALLY important to be able to see how much of my space is taken up by SUID/KUID recordings... that directly impacts the capacity of the Tivo to work "as intended".

    Unfortunately, sorting by expiration date doesn't accurately reflect the actual order in which programs will be deleted (if you use "Save at Most"). If programs could be sorted in actual (projected(?)) order of deletion, and the current usage by recording type info were available somewhere, I'd be all set.
     
  9. Jul 8, 2002 #69 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
    0
    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...
    As I have stated on numerous occasions but, well worth repeating:

    Dynamic readouts of....

    1) Hours Available at each Quality

    2) When TiVo will START deleting NP's (Based on current NP & TDL combined)

    How much simpler can you get?

    I do that manually whenever I even SUSPECT I am coming close to "Deletion Time"

    Even with all the TiVo's and all the capacity I have... I find it extremely USEFUL!!
     
  10. Jul 9, 2002 #70 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

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    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    I get (2) when I am coming close to "deletion time", not just when I suspect, as long as I make sure that what I want to keep isn't expired. I have no need for (1).
     
  11. Jul 10, 2002 #71 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
    0
    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...
    "... as long as I make sure that what I want to keep isn't expired"

    Yeah! That's the point, it's what you have to go thru to "make sure".

    Why oh why, should you have to do that. Re-arranging expiration dates on many recordings can be tedious. I would only want to have to do that if & when TiVo tells me that if I don't do it by a certain date, that I will lose some recordings (or others won't record).

    Then, and only then, will I decide if I want to exercise the option of hastening my viewing and subsequent deleting, or... limiting my upcoming recordings

    YOU may not have a need for (1), but I still think it would be somewhat informative ALONG with (2)! By the many, many here that have clam-mered for it, I presume they would too.:p
     
  12. Jul 10, 2002 #72 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

    4,051
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    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    You have to do that because that's how it works. And it's only tedious if you let them pile up. If you have a really large TiVo, there's nothing wrong with making them SUID so there's only one adjustment to make.

    It takes only the smallest amount of personal discipline to keep important recordings unexpired. I do it on three TiVos and it only takes a very few minutes, if that.

    Catch-22. You won't get that warning unless you're doing it already. Solution: do it already! :)

    So, what we're dealing with is willful slothfulness, right?

    It's "clamoured".
     
  13. Jul 10, 2002 #73 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
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    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...
    HTH:
    "slothfulness"??? Forgive my ignorance. I trust it is not an insult???


    BTW..w/ close to 700 hrs at my disposal, I WOULD have many recordings to adjust expiration dates. That is if I DIDN'T have most all as SUID!
    Which I wouldn't do so much of,if I had more instant info on when I am filling up.
     
  14. Jul 11, 2002 #74 of 297
    martinp13

    martinp13 YHTBMABIITY

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    Mar 19, 2001
    Fort Worth, TX
    No, not really an insult. Just a way of saying you're deliberately not watching stuff and letting it pile up.
     
  15. Jul 11, 2002 #75 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
    0
    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...
    NO! Not "deliberately", but "Necessarily". The purpose of so many TiVo's with so much storage is to be able to "Watch WHAT I want, When I want"

    I have been "Time-Shifting" in a major way, long before MOST of you ever even heard of the expression! (Over 20 years)

    During the Network Season, we watch mostly within a short time frame of the original broadcast via SP's.

    However,all during the year and during the Network Rerun Season, we are accumulating "semi-archiving" theatrical movies off Premium channels, PPV, Netflix DVD's, etc.

    Those are viewed mostly during the Summer. However, there is quite a backlog built up which is constantly being added to and reduced.

    Now, if that is what you consider "slothfulness"??? I plead guilty:confused:
     
  16. Jul 11, 2002 #76 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member TCF Club

    23,045
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    Nov 12, 2000
    San Antonio
    I think most folks understand that to use the current Tivo software to its fullest, using the expiration system as HTH does is probably best. However this is the suggestions forum, right? :)

    I fall into the "slothful" category... I've slapped extra capacity into the main Tivos I use, and keep an eye on suggestions as a rough gauge of free space, and the To Do List to see what's coming up. It would make my life a little easier if Tivo would show me the date and time it'll run out of space... that's all I really need 99% of the time.
     
  17. Jul 11, 2002 #77 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
    0
    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...
    Fellow Slothfulee....;) Naturally I agree with all you have said EXCEPT...

    1) It would make my life a LOT easier if Tivo would show me the date and time it'll run out of space...

    2) I refuse to use the "Suggestions" gimmick in "AUTO-Record"

    A) My NP lists are long enough

    B) Although I know its not SUPPOSED to happen, I have heard of too many instances where Suggestions deleted wanted recordings.
     
  18. Jul 12, 2002 #78 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

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    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    Sounds to me that those recordings are perfect examples of recordings that should be marked SUID, which you'll only have to set that way once. And by having even only one program not marked as SUID but also not expired (of a size commensurate with the size of your typical one-shot recordings), TiVo will give you information on when your capacity gets low interactively.

    The software isn't really designed to be a VOD library. Those using it as such have to accept that and not expect the software to be redesigned to cater to that purpose, to which it can only be put to via hacks that really aren't officially endorsed (i.e. massive storage expansion). I'd say your usage pattern is more of creating a VOD library than the mere timeshifting it is designed for. If you're going to use it like that, you're going to have to adjust your usage patterns, including making most of what you're archiving be SUID, and accept that your usage patterns do not match the majority of TiVo's market.

    Maybe TiVo will put out a product later that is designed to be an in-home VOD system. Or maybe they'll offer a separate VOD software package you can have installed instead of the usual TiVo software, for a price, and designed such that nothing deletes automatically and there's no such thing as expiry, or if deletions occur, it is through a weighted system where recordings are assigned an importance (which may be adjusted by you through methods both manual and automatic) and only recordings of lesser importance would be replaced by those of greater importance by algorithm.

    In short, "Give that man a special code base."

    Damn, now I expect after composing this message that all my unread messages are going to be marked as read again.
     
  19. Jul 12, 2002 #79 of 297
    rbird

    rbird uses tivo "wrong"

    126
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    Sep 20, 2000
    Centerville, GA
    That's funny, my TiVo window shade says "TiVo. TV your way". I think all we're asking for is for them to try to live up to that slogan. :)

    Bob
     
  20. Jul 12, 2002 #80 of 297
    vegaspl

    vegaspl Tivo'er since '99

    169
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    Feb 20, 2001
    West Hills,...
    Here, Here Bob.... I echo your sentiments exactly!!

    I never could, and still can't understand, why HTH is so adamently AGAINST what the overwhelming majority are FOR!.:confused:

    Sorry, HTH...this is not a "Personal Attack on you" just expressing my confusion. I do respect your right to your opinion. Just WHY so insistent??
    What would hurt YOU, if the OBVIOUS "overwhelming majority" were to get what we are clam-mering for?? Nobody would force you to use it.

    There are a lot of things on TiVo I personally find useless, or a "Gimmick". I just don't use them.

    BTW...you said <....Sounds to me that those recordings are perfect examples of recordings that should be marked SUID, which you'll only have to set that way once. And by having even only one program not marked as SUID but also not expired (of a size commensurate with the size of your typical one-shot recordings), TiVo will give you information on when your capacity gets low interactively. >

    FYI...I DO MARK MOST OF MY RECORDINGS.."SUID", but considering my overall capacity, I can do that! I do still have many that are not SUID. What about most of those who do not have the luxury of extra storage capacity?
    If I feel a FSI combined with a specified deletion date would be a "useful convenience" for ME, then I suspect MOST would also.
     

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