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The Free Space Indicator Thread

Discussion in 'TiVo Suggestion Avenue' started by Samsara, Jan 12, 2002.

How Important is This to You?

  1. It's so important that I'd pay extra for it.

    158 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. It's important but I wouldn't pay extra for it.

    1,306 vote(s)
    75.5%
  3. Not important, but I'd probably use it if it was free.

    219 vote(s)
    12.7%
  4. I'd probably never use it one way or the other.

    46 vote(s)
    2.7%
  1. Jan 12, 2002 #1 of 297
    Samsara

    Samsara Bored now

    685
    0
    May 11, 2000
    Allen, TX
  2. Jan 17, 2002 #2 of 297
    rbird

    rbird uses tivo "wrong"

    126
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    Sep 20, 2000
    Centerville, GA
    Nearly 91% would use it, if available? That's MUCH higher than even my optimistic brain could imagine! :D

    Is Tivo listening???

    Bob
     
  3. Jan 17, 2002 #3 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

    4,049
    0
    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    So much depends on its implementation so as not to cause an increase in the number of help desk calls that the poll isn't all that useful.
     
  4. Jan 17, 2002 #4 of 297
    SteakMan

    SteakMan New Member

    789
    0
    Nov 26, 2001
    Chicago
    Agreed. I would like to see a simple percentage status bar. Or maybe even a pie chart. Do NOT show minutes of any sort, only MB or percent MB.
     
  5. Jan 17, 2002 #5 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

    4,049
    0
    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    Please excuse me while I remove these keycaps from my forehead.
     
  6. Jan 17, 2002 #6 of 297
    SteakMan

    SteakMan New Member

    789
    0
    Nov 26, 2001
    Chicago
    Just messin with ya HTH :)

    Sorry, that's the closest that I'll come to trolling :)
     
  7. Jan 17, 2002 #7 of 297
    beejay

    beejay New Member

    683
    0
    Feb 3, 2001
    Richmond, IN
    Show something. Show anything. Start with something as simple as your like, TiVo, but start with something.

    I'm afraid someone at TiVo reads some of the involved suggestions and thinks "who but a computer programmer is going to understand that."

    So, TiVo, don't give us the ultimate, but give us something.
     
  8. Jan 17, 2002 #8 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member TCF Club

    23,025
    224
    Nov 12, 2000
    San Antonio
    Good news! They did! Turn on suggestions, and after a few days the suggestions will consume most of the free space.
     
  9. Jan 22, 2002 #9 of 297
    dnyberg

    dnyberg New Member

    4
    0
    Jul 3, 2001
    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by dnyberg
    As part of such a software upgrade, please do away with the current scheduling algorithm's behavior of refusing to record something (or to change its delete time) because "there's not enough space". Rather, it should say something along the lines of "at this time I project there will not be enough space" for a given recording. After all, the unit can't know that in 3 hours I'll delete 10 hours of programming, so it has no business issuing a flat refusal to record something 24 hours from now.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Sure it can, as long as you tell it you will by adjusting the expiry of that 10 hours worth of shows and not set everything S/KUID.

    If your numbers are realistic and you're really going to delete 10 hours worth of programming in the next three, just do it and then schedule your shows.

    ============================================

    No.

    I just saw a promo for some show that's interesting, and I want to tell Tivo to grab it. It refuses, saying that based on automatic operations only, there won't be space. Too bad. I'm part of the equation here too; my desires are what count. The *only* thing that counts, in fact. I bought the machine, I pay the sub, what I desire is what it should do.

    If I tell it to schedule something for recording, it should have one and only one response: Yes Master! (It can point out that by that time there *may* not be space, but that's just an advisory.)

    Suppose it's a show 3 days out, and I'll be saving to tape tomorrow. Am I supposed to delete the things I would save, just to satisfy the machine?

    Am I supposed to scribble post-it notes for later, after I've done the save-to-tape operations?

    No. Neither of those. If, 3 days from now, there's insufficient room, then nobody can blame the machine for not making the recording. But there is absolutely no legitimate reason for it to refuse to accept instructions regarding its list of operations to *try* to perform. Not one. *No* reason, period.
     
  10. Jan 23, 2002 #10 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member TCF Club

    23,025
    224
    Nov 12, 2000
    San Antonio
    If you didn't have so much marked as "Keep Until I Delete" your Tivo would simply warn you that one or more shows will have to be deleted earlier than planned, then allow you to schedule your new show, and assuming you deleted enough stuff between now and the time the new show aired, nothing would have to be deleted.
     
  11. Jan 23, 2002 #11 of 297
    martinp13

    martinp13 YHTBMABIITY

    10,976
    0
    Mar 19, 2001
    Fort Worth, TX
    But you WILL blame the machine for not making the recording. It said it would, but it didn't.

    You expect to tell a TiVo "Record everything on channel 4 forever, and I mean Everything and Forever." and not have it complain?

    Didn't you watch 2001:ASO to see what happens when you give conflicting instructions? Next thing you know your pod bay doors won't work, and THEN where will you be? :)
     
  12. Jan 23, 2002 #12 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

    4,049
    0
    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    No, you'll just change the shows you'll be saving to tape tomorrow from SUID to be kept for only 1 or 2 days. In that way you are telling the TiVo that they will be gone by the time the show 3 days out would be scheduled to record. And then your TiVo will allow it to be scheduled.

    Why mark something SUID when you're going to delete it tomorrow? Where's the logic in that? How can you expect TiVo to know you're going to delete them tomorrow unless you tell it so?

    Here's a reasonable suggestion: when there gets to be so many SUID recordings that some shows aren't being scheduled and listed in the Recording History with the reason of to insufficient space available, the TiVo should give you a PTCM saying that you are acquiring too many SUID programs and that scheduling functionality will be impaired unless you change some to have finite expiry times. That will make it clear it's the user's own damn fault for abusing S/KUID and get him to stop recording everything that way.
     
  13. Jan 23, 2002 #13 of 297
    dnyberg

    dnyberg New Member

    4
    0
    Jul 3, 2001
    I set things suid for a reason (actually a couple of reasons):

    1) a bird in hand is worth 2 in the bush. I don't want it deleting something it has, for something that may not ever arrive (rain fade, power outage, etc).

    2) I may not get around to save to tape as I intend, or I may forget, or whatever. If I start setting things "2 days", I may lose them. That's the whole idea. So I set things I'm willing to lose to "save 2 days or delete when space is needed", and I set things I don't want to lose as "keep until I delete".

    If that means it *may* not be sure about whther it will have space for something in the future, I'm perfectly happy for it to say "I may not have space starting 12 hours from now" in an advisory (or when I'm giving it instructions). I don't want to have to change the storage of a bunch of sored programs in order to get it to accept instructions, then have to go back and change them back. (If it'll let me change them back, anyway.) It should follow my instructions as best it's able, not tell me it refuses this or that because it thinks I'm too stupid to realize HD is a finite resource. And FWIW, a forward-projecting gas gauge, as I suggested above, would help this situation whether they fix the refusenik behavior or not.

    The bottom line is that it's my servant, not the other way around, and the software should reflect that.
     
  14. Jan 23, 2002 #14 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

    4,049
    0
    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    It is.

    If you use it in a compulsively paranoid manner, it will be compulsively paranoid back at you. Only one of you is able to back down.

    You need to relax and either record less or watch-and-delete more TV. This weekend, watch and delete programs all day long. If you only watch stuff with commercials and skip over them you should be able to clear off 40 hours of SUID programming over two days. Then swear off scheduling any Season Pass or Wishlist as KUID and use SUID rarely. Then you should be able to use your TiVo in a more relaxed manner. If you only push expiry ahead little by little, you won't have problems scheduling programs later.

    Meanwhile, consider that it's possible that your problem isn't that TiVo isn't letting you record more; it's that you are already recording more than you can watch. It sounds like a classic case of overrun avec TV.
     
  15. Jan 23, 2002 #15 of 297
    SteakMan

    SteakMan New Member

    789
    0
    Nov 26, 2001
    Chicago
    Naw, I think the problem everyone (who is complaining about it) has, is that they are still in VCR thinking mode, while the TiVo is trying to do so much more.

    The manual should have printed in giant letters: "Scheduling recordings as SUID will reduce your available space by the amount of the recording AND reduce your space available for scheduling future recordings."

    And maybe: "While it can, the TiVo was not designed to save recordings indefinitely."

    I still wish that it would allow over-scheduling, but now that I see how SUID really works, I think that would take a major overhaul of the logic everywhere else as well. I'll put up with it as it is thank you.

    -SteakMan-
    Edit: I forgot about Bret's explanation. I bet that could be implemented without much of an overhaul :)
     
  16. Jan 23, 2002 #16 of 297
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member TCF Club

    23,025
    224
    Nov 12, 2000
    San Antonio
    dnyberg,

    You're obviously free to use your Tivo as you see fit. But I doubt you'll ever get an update that lets you force Tivo to schedule a show when it calculates that there won't be room for it. Because, like HTH said, people would immediately start complaining when their shows that they schedule don't record.

    Maybe you agree with my suggestion... that is to have the Tivo tell you that new recording won't fit, but add it to the Recording History, and automatically add it to the To Do List if you free enough space in time. That way, the fundamental meaning of the To Do List will remain the same (these things WILL record barring power failure, guide changes, user modifications, etc.), and people who mark too much stuff as SUID will be able to overschedule to at will! :) As long as the warning is clear that the overscheduled recording is not guaranteed to record.

     
  17. Jan 28, 2002 #17 of 297
    ja-kid

    ja-kid New Member

    1
    0
    Jan 17, 2002
    Detroit, MI
    I would also love to see some kind of "free space indicator" also.
     
  18. Mar 4, 2002 #18 of 297
    Blahman

    Blahman New Member

    62
    0
    Mar 3, 2002
    I could get by without a free space indicator if I could just get some simple info without having to manually add it all up.

    On the Sytem Info screen it would be nice if it listed:
    1). Number of hours worth of material currently in Now Playing - Tivo Suggested Recordings
    2). Number of hours worth of material currently in To Do List - Tivo Suggestions

    On my ~259 hour unit this would be a great help.

    Of course soon I'll also want batch save to VCR and/or editting.. :)

    Yes, I know I can do the math for both 1 and 2, but why should I when the DTivo already knows the answer. Plus think about it. ~259 hours is ~518 half hour episodes of various TV shows, or ~129 two hour movies. Really sucks trying to keep a count on that when the hardware already does so.
     
  19. Mar 11, 2002 #19 of 297
    SuperRob

    SuperRob TiVolution Army

    177
    0
    Nov 27, 2000
    Bothell,...
    All I want is an indicator like this ...

    Your TiVo currently has XX hours of free space left at the default recording level. (This does not include any programs scheduled for future recording.)

    I can't beleive this is too much to ask. The key here is currently. All we really want to know is based on what is recorded NOW, how much space is left. Nothing else really matters in the grand scheme, since suggestions get deleted to make space, programs will get bumped to make room, and S/KUID fux0rs the entire thing. :)

    Yes, it's 100% a touchy-feeling thing. The number is fairly meaningless. That doesn't make me WANT it any less. ;)
     
  20. Mar 11, 2002 #20 of 297
    HTH

    HTH No Avatar Selected

    4,049
    0
    Aug 28, 2000
    Lincoln, NE
    s/key/problem/

    The number is functionally meaningless, but that won't prevent people from assigning a meaning to it.

    Imagine all the tech support calls coming in from people who want to know why they can't schedule their 23rd future movie recording when their TiVo is only 48% full now. It will be more than those that call now not knowing why it won't record more, because they'll feel they have hard evidence on their side that TiVo is wrong and they should be able to schedule it.
     

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