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The Chip With The Lifetime Information On It

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by RusRus, May 28, 2013.

  1. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Nothing to disagree with all at.

    However, when I jumped into this thread, the inquiry was about "The Chip With The Lifetime Information On It". Technically there is no such thing, and I never said so (my bad).

    There is only a PROM (or flash chip), which didn't contain the TSN before the Premiere, and a "crypto" chip. A lot of things became more integrated along the way, and more security and validation was incorporated. Then there's the matter of the integration becoming part of a non-user swappable SOC, which is BGA mounted to the board, surface mount (with all Premieres).

    So, to make up for me not being clear, it's the TSN that is the key to TiVo's servers associating it as a Lifetime unit, and affording it that status, AFTER all the validation internally, and a recent connection to the TiVo Service (externally).

    The is nothing actually inside ANY TiVo that *makes* it lifetime, only the TSN, which must be both internally and externally validated, then the unit is afforded it's status, remotely. This validation expires, just like you say, and has to be re-affirmed by a Service Connection.

    The only legit way to transfer LT service, is either by a rare deal being made by TiVo, which is at their discretion, and is not free, if permitted.

    To illegitimately transfer the status would require internal mods/hacks, to make the TiVo Service believe a non LT unit is LT.

    I've never heard of any success story with a Premiere.

    To say any more, on what I know, about how to do this to pre-Premiere models, would violate the rules of *these* forums.
     
  2. heyted

    heyted Member

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    Mar 4, 2012
    South Florida
    This is not what I am observing with my Premiere with software version 14.8c. It has not called home in many months, and it continues to operate.
     
  3. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    It was six months, then three, and I've no idea if it's been reduced any further. It's the software updates that have been doing this. You're running a VERY old version of software, which I think could be the factory installed shipping version at the time you bought your TiVo, or the last update ever received and installed by it. What are you doing? Blocking updates somehow, or leaving your unit permanently network disconnected? If you're not doing either, what you say is confusing, since even non-subscribed TiVos AUTOMATICALLY update to the most current software, if they are working properly.
     
  4. heyted

    heyted Member

    175
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    Mar 4, 2012
    South Florida
    It has no access to the WAN.
     
  5. dianebrat

    dianebrat drastically off narrative TCF Club

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    boston'ish
    Island Premiere's are a unique scenario, and not one that would utilize the majority of features one would buy a DVR for IMNSHO.
     
  6. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Do you mean an actual island, or is that just a blanket term for any TiVos off-network, that you coined?
     
  7. dianebrat

    dianebrat drastically off narrative TCF Club

    10,417
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    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    It's what I'd refer to any networked device that is no longer networked and living on its own, it's an island...
     
  8. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    7,807
    31
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    I use a stand alone Premiere with a cable card and no network service, and no TiVo service in a guest room, works great as an inexpensive cable tuner with the 30 min buffer (I only pay $1.15/month for the extra cable card). There is no guide service or recording that can be done, and I am somewhat sure you can't record with your TP v14.8c, but as a guest TV they can get HBO and all the other ch. I am paying for.
     
  9. ufo4sale

    ufo4sale Active Member

    4,051
    6
    Apr 21, 2001
    Plainview...
    Excuse my ignorance but what is the point of removing the chip from one TiVo to another assuming you bought the TiVo with the chip to begin with?
     
  10. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    If you paid for Lifetime Service for a TiVo, and it failed out of warranty, and could not be repaired, you *used to be able to* swap a couple chips to another (non-lifetime) unit, or one with no subscription, and make the TiVo Service believe it was the original one, as well as preserving your recordings, since a Clear & Delete Everything wouldn't be required (since the TSN would match, if the chips and drive both were transplanted together).

    To the best of my knowledge, it's never been a matter of theft, like getting more Lifetime Service TiVos than paid for, just the reasons I mentioned, plus something I vaguely remember about Multi-Room Viewing restriction circumvention (due to the CCI bit flag).
     
  11. heyted

    heyted Member

    175
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    Mar 4, 2012
    South Florida
    It is understandable that you doubt a Premiere can manually record without TiVo service given the amount of information online saying it cannot. It appears that TiVo Inc. allows differing levels of functionality with no service depending on the software version and settings. Maybe they change their minds about what, if anything, the TiVo can do without service. A recent example of this is the re-enabling of trick play, which includes recording data to the hard disc. Maybe they allow some level of functionality with no service to entice the user to get the TiVo service.

     
  12. dianebrat

    dianebrat drastically off narrative TCF Club

    10,417
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    It's more than "It appears that TiVo Inc. allows differing levels of functionality with no service depending on the software version and settings" It's a known fact that the later service revisions are tighter on allowing the non-subbed devices and their level of functionality, this is why users force older units into the "island" mode with an older OS.

    A Premiere is meant to be all but unusable when unsubscribed since Tivo makes no money on the hardware, the service is their income source, it's in their best business practices to prevent loopholes allowing units from doing what you're having yours do.
     
  13. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    CT
    This does make any sense to me as a new TPs have to be setup before they can be used, and the software is updated before the setup itself is done, there is no way anybody could tell what software is sent out with any new TP because of this pre-setup software update that TiVo is now doing.
    I am not talking about special hacking one may be able to do on a TP, but we all would like to hear about any TPs that can record after 30 days of no service or not calling home, or both. I have an non service TP-4 with a cable card, it set up OK and acts like a cable box getting all the channels I pay for without any guide data or the ability to record, the buffer does work and for a guest room it does the job. (I know I don't need 4 tuners for a guest room but the price I was able to get the TP-4 it was worth it to me if in the future I wanted activate it.)
     
  14. stevel

    stevel Dumb Blond TCF Club

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    Nashua, NH
    Without service, you cannot request a recording to be saved. All you get is the 30 minute live buffer with trick play.
     
  15. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Could you please answer the question I asked of you earlier, regarding your reference to what you mean my an "island" TiVo?

    If I could block my SOME of own units from updating the software, without living on an actual island, I'd LOVE TO try that out. Some of my units COULD benefit from NOT receiving updates, and I'd like to try it out, if possible. I do have some drives that ONLY have the factory pre-imaged software on them still. I hate how, one updated, they become BRICKS, even when there is a momentary inability for the real-time TiVo VCM to connect. They didn't used to be that way, until updates were applied.

    FYI: ALL my units are lifetime service, which can NOT be validated without at least ONE service connection, even with the old software...
     
  16. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I agree, it just doesn't make sense. The people claiming it works, as of yet, haven't given me ANY responses to clarify things, or make it make sense. So, I'm getting suspicious about the claims made.
     
  17. dianebrat

    dianebrat drastically off narrative TCF Club

    10,417
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    Was that not a sufficient answer to your question?
     
  18. dianebrat

    dianebrat drastically off narrative TCF Club

    10,417
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    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    There have been more than a few different discussions over the changes made to the features available being decreased as they went away from 14.9, and the general outcome is that Tivo wants to make the units less attractive without a subscription.
     
  19. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Now, you've specified what I asked, regarding what you mean by "island". So, yes, now I find that part sufficient.

    I wanted to be sure the user wasn't located on an island, where getting a TiVo Service Connection wasn't possible, and perhaps had the TiVo shipped pre-authorized, with a TiVo-implemented way to retain that authorization indefinitely.

    Now, I just want to know how it's possible for a TiVo to get it's lifetime authentication, WITHOUT receiving an automatic software update, which would force it to keep re-validating.

    I'm thinking that this is some sort of hack, or an otherwise unknown way of blocking of an update being installed.

    I want to know: How do you connect to the TiVo Service, get the authentication, and block the TiVo from AUTOMATICALLY updating it's software? It can't be easy, unless there's extenuating circumstances, in which TiVo themselves made it possible. Inquiring minds want to know more about how this is possible, and how to replicate it. If it can't be replicated, or proven as something TiVo allowed, it will continue to NOT make sense to those who have taken interest in the matter.
     
  20. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

    7,807
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    +1
    Maybe a troll is the real answer to this or one can't tell the difference between a series 1 and a series 4.
    You must set up a new TiVo to get your channel map for your area into the TiVo, you can get that ch map without any TiVo service.
     

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