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Streambaby - new streaming application

Discussion in 'TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo' started by kearygriffin, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. Apr 7, 2009 #921 of 3405
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    No, editing out commercials with VRD won't affect the average bit rate. I am not doing anything special to get above speeds - those are pretty normal for S3 series Tivos that I am using. The THD/HDXL units are still a little slower than that. They used to be about half the speed of S3s when they first came out but have improved quite a bit since, but the S3s are still faster. With my HDXL unit I can't quite stream real time the ABC HD recordings, but it's usually not an issue with my S3 units (unless they are very loaded at the time). You can improve speed a little by tuning to channels you don't receive thus alleviating load on your Tivo but of course that won't do if you happen to be recording something at the time while you stream.
     
  2. Apr 7, 2009 #922 of 3405
    Sicklybutsexy

    Sicklybutsexy New Member

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    May 5, 2007
    yeah. I think it's set to 4:3 dynamic or something. Will change it. Thanks.
     
  3. Apr 7, 2009 #923 of 3405
    fyodor

    fyodor Member

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    Sep 19, 2006
    I'd love to get some systematic data on this. My initial thought was that there was some sort of inbound processing that set a maximum cap on the speed of incoming MPEG-2 data (i.e. no more than say 12 megabits/s). But anecdotally, it seems that people who have relatively slow connections (wireless) receive H.264 video much faster. Even the new shows for which amazon has started delivering as WMVs appear to be getting much faster download speeds (based on the anecdotal reports that I've seen). I'm not sure what could cause such an effect.


    F
     
  4. Apr 7, 2009 #924 of 3405
    fyodor

    fyodor Member

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    Sep 19, 2006
    How is your Tivo connected to the network?
     
  5. Apr 7, 2009 #925 of 3405
    abnersnell

    abnersnell New Member

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    It is wired connection into gigabit switch, dual-core 2.6ghz desktop to same switch is gigabit ethernet. I tested a show this morning that was run through VideoRedo Adcut but not re-encoded that Streambaby reports as "Same -15Mbps" in the quality section. It paused after a few seconds and then again after another few seconds. It is a 1080i Monk from USAHD.
     
  6. Apr 7, 2009 #926 of 3405
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

    11,141
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    Mission...
    My guess is that mpeg2 is stored in a special format on Tivos (ty format or whatever it's called) and thus requires additional demuxing/re-muxing in addition to application of encryption while mpeg4 or wmv don't get the demuxing/re-muxing step (but likely still get the encryption applied) and thus take less of the limited resources of a Tivo (CPU & memory).
    It's already a known fact that if you transfer .TiVo files from Tivo->PC in native format (&Format=video%2Fx-tivo-raw-tts) that transfers happen at MRV rates instead of TTG rates which can be as much as 2x faster, so any changes that need to be made to a video stream that burden the Tivo resources can slow things down quite considerably.
     
  7. Apr 7, 2009 #927 of 3405
    fyodor

    fyodor Member

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    Sep 19, 2006
    Yeah, but in this case, you'd expect very little speed differential for connections that are already bandwidth limited because the Tivo could do the reprocessing faster than the incoming data is received. Whereas it appears (anecdotally) that even wireless and/or internet transfers see much higher MPEG-4 transfer speeds.
     
  8. Apr 7, 2009 #928 of 3405
    txporter

    txporter One sec, almost done

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    Sep 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    The handbrake profile that I posted was for SD encodes. I haven't done any HD re-encodes, I simply chop out the commercials with VRD and then pull them back up to the Tivo. I would probably push the bitrate up to ~5mbps for HD, but I would need to experiment. I will try to remember to post a profile for handbrake that uses CRF instead of 2-pass tonight. That will make the re-encodes quite a bit faster (35 mins for 42min episode vs 50 mins). I went away from it because I had 1 particular series that gave me vastly different final bitrates (~3700 vs ~2200).

    Jason
     
  9. Apr 7, 2009 #929 of 3405
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Aug 2, 2004
    I think you are right. mpeg2 on a series3 is stored, essentially, as a mpeg transport stream, with a little bit of extra tivo "trickplay" indexing in the ty container. Google the "s3tots" program for more details. Credit to ddb user bcc for figuring this stuff out. An mpeg2 program stream need to be converted into a transport stream when received, which no doubt adds overhead.

    I tried sending an mpeg2ts transport stream directly to the tivo, but Pytivo wants to convert it into a program stream. I wonder if the tivo can receive transport streams directly, since that is very close to the format it is stored in on the tivo? I see some strings in tivoapp that might be relevant: "mpeg2TransportStream" near "mpeg2ProgramStream" and "avcL41MP4". Also "video/x-tivo-mpeg&System=ts"
     
  10. Apr 7, 2009 #930 of 3405
    Sicklybutsexy

    Sicklybutsexy New Member

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    May 5, 2007
    you probably tried this, but did you try renaming the mpeg transport stream to a plain old mpg and then try it?
     
  11. Apr 7, 2009 #931 of 3405
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Aug 2, 2004
    Tried that. PyTivo still reports:
    Code:
    DEBUG:pyTivo.video.transcode:TRANSCODE=YES, container mpegts not compatible, /space/jamie/video/msbts.mpg
    This was with a pyTivo push, as I'm not near my tivo to try pulling or streaming.
     
  12. Apr 7, 2009 #932 of 3405
    Sicklybutsexy

    Sicklybutsexy New Member

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    May 5, 2007
    I think it would be the same since they both go through ffmpeg...I think keary or wmcbrine would be better able to answer the question.
     
  13. Apr 7, 2009 #933 of 3405
    Sicklybutsexy

    Sicklybutsexy New Member

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    May 5, 2007
    or I guess the alternative would be, is there a way to convert an mpeg file into a .tivo file? With Videoredo you can do this. Would then this dramatically speed up the transfer speeds for mpeg files?
     
  14. Apr 7, 2009 #934 of 3405
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Aug 2, 2004
    I dunno, but I tried extracting a show via the http interface, adding "&System=ts" at the end of the url (after x-tivo-mpeg) and it extracted about twice as fast as the same show did without that qualifier. It sounds similar to the performance improvement moyekj reported with x-tivo-raw-tts.
     
  15. Apr 7, 2009 #935 of 3405
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    A few of us have already been attempting for quite a while now to get streaming and/or pyTivo push of mpeg2 in mpeg2 transport streams to work, but have not found a way to do it, so AFAIK it's not yet possible (at least I've not found a way to do it).

    As wmcbrine has pointed out before, the tivoapp binary contains this section which seems to indicate the supported encoding types:
    supportedEncodingType...avcL41MP4 vc1ApL3 mpeg2ProgramStream

    The tivoapp binary also contains another section as you pointed out with:
    tivo windowsMedia mpeg2ProgramStream mpeg2TransportStream avcL41MP4 vc1ApL3

    This gave some hope that perhaps mpeg2TransportStream is supported, but I haven't been able to get that to work. And actually in pyTivo mind.py if you setup things such that .ts files use mpeg2TransportStream encoding type the push request to mind.tivo.com does actually go through without complaint which is also encouraging. However you will find that you never get a subsequent request from the Tivo for the file when using mpeg2TransportStream encoding type so it appears to not be supported.
     
  16. Apr 7, 2009 #936 of 3405
    txporter

    txporter One sec, almost done

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    Sep 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Here is my original handbrake profile using a CRF based encode rather than 2-pass (I made it AC3 instead of AAC):
    Code:
    -i "source" -t 5 -c 1-16 -o "output.mp4" -f mp4 -O  --decomb  -p  --detelecine -e x264 -q 0.61 -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 0 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 --markers="chapters.csv" -x ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:b-pyramid=1:weightb=1:analyse=all:8x8dct=1:me=umh:subq=9:psy-rd=1,0.2:direct=auto:keyint=24:min-keyint=2:no-fast-pskip=1:no-dct-decimate=1 -v
    Here is the 2-pass version with AC3 for completeness:
    Code:
    -i "source" -t 5 -c 1-16 -o "output.mp4" -f mp4 -O  --decomb  -p  --detelecine -e x264 -b 2000 -2  -T  -a 1 -E ac3 -B 160 -R 0 -6 dpl2 -D 1 -s 1 --markers="chapters.csv" -x ref=3:mixed-refs=1:bframes=3:weightb=1:direct=auto:b-pyramid=1:me=umh:subq=9:analyse=all:8x8dct=1:no-fast-pskip=1:psy-rd=1,0.2:keyint=24:min-keyint=2:no-dct-decimate=1 -v
    Jason
     
  17. Apr 7, 2009 #937 of 3405
    abnersnell

    abnersnell New Member

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    Mar 3, 2002
    Does this HD mpeg after chopping out the commercials with VRD stream back in realtime? If so, can you describe your desktop to tivo connection? Dual-Core? Switch/router? etc.

    I still can't stream HD mpegs back to TIVO S3 in real-time. Sounds like some of you are doing this without issue. I would encode things I want to keep for awhile, but if I just want quick turnaround time for the commercial removal, I would like to stream back the HD mpeg file.

    Thanks!

    Abner
     
  18. Apr 7, 2009 #938 of 3405
    JamieP

    JamieP Member

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    Aug 2, 2004
    OK. Thanks for the info. From browsing tivoapp, it appears to me that the first list is the types supported for insertion onto the tivo, and the second list, for extraction.
     
  19. Apr 7, 2009 #939 of 3405
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Mission...
    Thanks. Note that the CRF based version for HD encoding generates a file with a higher video bit rate and larger file size than the original mpeg2. I translated to what I thought was a roughly equivalent version for ffmpeg CRF based encoding and for SD encodes it generates a very similar encoding to handbrake, but the ffmpeg version also works reasonably well for HD encodings as well.
    Code:
    ffmpeg -y -i inputFile.mpg -acodec copy -vcodec libx264 -sameq -crf 22 -refs 3 -flags2 +mixed_refs+wpred+bpyramid+dct8x8-fastpskip -bf 3 -me_method umh -subq 9 -g 24 -keyint_min 2 -f mp4 ouputFile.mp4
    
    I'm not exactly sure but from what I could gather ffmpeg -crf useful range is 34:14 where 14 is better.
     
  20. Apr 8, 2009 #940 of 3405
    txporter

    txporter One sec, almost done

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    Sep 17, 2006
    Austin, TX
    Yeah, the handbrake %quality system is sort of whacked out. For SD recordings, if I use a quality of 61% it is a CRF of ~20. However, depending on what options are selected (level of trellis especially) the bitrate can vary quite a bit. I believe that I read a lower quality % needs to be used for HD encodes (50-55%, I think). I like Handbrake because it simplifies the conversion of DVD rips to files with burned in subs, but I do wish the options were more inline with other software though.

    Jason
     

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